Pre-Trib Only My New End Times Chronology

Davy said:

Sounds like a copy-cat from writings of commentators who follow the Reformers in thinking the Antichrist is a pope. That couldn't be farther from the truth, and I'm a Protestant.

In Revelation 12:7-9 we are shown about a war in heaven, with Satan and his angels being booted out of heaven, no more place found for him there. And there we are told the title of "dragon" is another name for Satan. Jesus in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 warned us about a pseudo-Christ coming to work great signs and wonders on earth that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect. Apostle Paul warned us about the man of sin coming to sit in a temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped, and also that he will work lying wonders to deceive. Apostle John in Revelation 13:11-14 tells us about "another beast" that will have power to work great wonders making fire come down from heaven to the earth in the sight of men, and deceives those on earth by the miracles he had power to work.

All that reveals the endtime Antichrist is not a pope, because no pope will be able to work those great signs and miracles. ONLY a supernatural entity will have that kind of power on earth to deceive. The idea Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 24:23-26 is about a singular Antichrist coming to Jerusalem to play Messiah. The Greek for KJV "false Christs" there is the word pseudochristos, made up from two Greek words, pseudo which means false, and christos which is singular for Christ.

Thus we can heed men's doctrines about a pope and be deceived, or we can heed God's Word and be aware of what's really getting ready to take place in our near future.

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I agree Satan is not a man. But angels can appear as men. Satan is an angel that appeared as a serpent and a dragon. No man can do what Satan can do, thus Satan is this beast with two horns, like a lamb, because that is how Satan has deceived humanity for 2500 years. Satan is not bound in this form. Satan is an angel and every minute can be here, there, and in heaven as Satan pleases. Satan will not be cast out of heaven until the 7th Trumpet. Not that Satan "lives" in heaven. Satan will no longer have access to heaven. After a 3.5 year period, Satan will be bound in sheol, and for 1000 years, will not have access to earth either. But no human on their own can do miracles, but the FP, will receive power from Satan. Then Satan will create an image. This image will be Satan's, false Messiah. This false Messiah will be Satan's Antichrist. Looking for some human is impossible, because a human does not have the powers Satan has. The only reason why the FP has power is because Satan gave the FP, his powers.

The only one the church is supposed to be looking for is Jesus Christ, the Lamb. Forget Satan and his deceptions. We are only to look for God on the throne and the Lamb by God’s side. It does not matter if the government fails and Christians are persecuted and put to death. We are still only to look and wait for God and the Lamb.

keras said:

Explain Revelation 12:17. And Daniel 11:35.
They say God's holy people will be tested and refined.

Your idea of 'Tribulation Saints', is false; there will be no, or very few converts during the GT. Revelation 13:3-4 & 17

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Those verses you provided are referring to the Tribulation Saints, not the Church.
The Tribulation is not for the Church.
The Church Age will be done before the Tribulation.
She will not suffer God's wrath.

ItIsFinished! said:

Those verses you provided are referring to the Tribulation Saints, not the Church.
The Tribulation is not for the Church.
The Church Age will be done before the Tribulation.
She will not suffer God's wrath.

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Your opinion, totally bereft of any scriptural support.
The verses I provided prove there will be no 'Tribulation Saints'. That phase is made up.

keras said:

Your opinion, totally bereft of any scriptural support.
The verses I provided prove there will be no 'Tribulation Saints'. That phase is made up.

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Not entirely. There are 4 Gospels giving us a play by play in parables of Jesus about the time of Jacob's trouble. At the least, Jesus lived the first 3.5 years, 1990 years ago. Now He again, as the Lamb will finish up the rest of the week on earth.

keras said:

Your opinion, totally bereft of any scriptural support.
The verses I provided prove there will be no 'Tribulation Saints'. That phase is made up.

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You provided your confused interpretation (again) of Scripture completely out of context.
No opinion on my end. What I said is 100% Scriptural. And , yes there will be plenty of Tribulation Saints.
People will get saved during the Tribulation, hence Tribulation Saints.
And why do you come to a pre-trib only thread and attack people? What is your intent?

Timtofly said:

Satan will not be cast out of heaven until the 7th Trumpet. Not that Satan "lives" in heaven. Satan will no longer have access to heaven.

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You left the Scriptures with that idea. The 7th Trumpet is when Jesus returns to end Satan's reign; it's plain as day in the Revelation 11 chapter, because it says there on the 7th Trumpet all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and His Son.

Dan 12:1-2
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV

Those events Lord Jesus covered in His Olivet discourse about the great tribulation. Notice Archangel Michael makes a 'stand', and then that time of trouble starts, which is the tribulation. That event about Michael there is the same event of Revelation 12:7-9 when Michael and his angels boot Satan and his out of the heavenly down to the earth for the tribulation. Two or more witnesses, there you go.

After a 3.5 year period, Satan will be bound in sheol, and for 1000 years, will not have access to earth either. But no human on their own can do miracles, but the FP, will receive power from Satan. Then Satan will create an image. This image will be Satan's, false Messiah. This false Messiah will be Satan's Antichrist. Looking for some human is impossible, because a human does not have the powers Satan has. The only reason why the FP has power is because Satan gave the FP, his powers.

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The Revelation 13 Scripture doesn't mention the false prophet. That idea is man adding to that Scripture. It means leaving God's Word as written again, something I said it wouldn't be long before you did it.

The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward is the same one in Matthew 24:23-26 that Jesus warned about, and of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 that Paul warned about. In 2 Corinthians 11, Paul also warned about the "another Jesus", and how Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, and his ministers as the ministers of righteousness. He is coming to our earthly dimension to play Messiah and work miracles, which is why the whole world will believe he is God and will worship him.

The only one the church is supposed to be looking for is Jesus Christ, the Lamb. Forget Satan and his deceptions. We are only to look for God on the throne and the Lamb by God’s side. It does not matter if the government fails and Christians are persecuted and put to death. We are still only to look and wait for God and the Lamb.

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Ah, you left God's Word again. Lord Jesus specifically warned the Church about a pseudo-Christ that is to come and work great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect. That's His subject in Matthew 24:23-26. You should read it sometime instead of listening to men's doctrines.

Paul showed the same warning in 2 Thess.2, and John did again in Rev.13:11 forward. Wake up! Those you listen to are lying to you!

ItIsFinished! said:

You provided your confused interpretation (again) of Scripture completely out of context.
No opinion on my end. What I said is 100% Scriptural. And , yes there will be plenty of Tribulation Saints.
People will get saved during the Tribulation, hence Tribulation Saints.
And why do you come to a pre-trib only thread and attack people? What is your intent?

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Actual scriptural proof, please!

My intent is to help the deceived to see the truth before its too late.
If you can't stand criticism, go to the Rapture Forum; I got kicked off that one!

Davy said:

You left the Scriptures with that idea. The 7th Trumpet is when Jesus returns to end Satan's reign; it's plain as day in the Revelation 11 chapter, because it says there on the 7th Trumpet all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and His Son.

Dan 12:1-2
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV

Those events Lord Jesus covered in His Olivet discourse about the great tribulation. Notice Archangel Michael makes a 'stand', and then that time of trouble starts, which is the tribulation. That event about Michael there is the same event of Revelation 12:7-9 when Michael and his angels boot Satan and his out of the heavenly down to the earth for the tribulation. Two or more witnesses, there you go.



The Revelation 13 Scripture doesn't mention the false prophet. That idea is man adding to that Scripture. It means leaving God's Word as written again, something I said it wouldn't be long before you did it.

The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward is the same one in Matthew 24:23-26 that Jesus warned about, and of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 that Paul warned about. In 2 Corinthians 11, Paul also warned about the "another Jesus", and how Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, and his ministers as the ministers of righteousness. He is coming to our earthly dimension to play Messiah and work miracles, which is why the whole world will believe he is God and will worship him.



Ah, you left God's Word again. Lord Jesus specifically warned the Church about a pseudo-Christ that is to come and work great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect. That's His subject in Matthew 24:23-26. You should read it sometime instead of listening to men's doctrines.

Paul showed the same warning in 2 Thess.2, and John did again in Rev.13:11 forward. Wake up! Those you listen to are lying to you!

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Do you not understand in Scripture how first mention of a person is not with a given name? You have to introduce Messiah first, then Antichrist. Satan and the FP, are named in Revelation 16, and are the same beast unamed in Revelation 13. The Antichrist is never named once in Revelation. So who adds to Revelation with this false teaching of Antichrist? It is not I. The beast in Revelation 16 is the image of Revelation 13. The FP in Revelation 16 is the beast out of the Sea, the one John pulls from Daniel 11. The only human who was mysteriously wounded, but brought back to life, by none other than Satan himself the dragon. That only leaves Satan, the dragon. Satan is the beast out of the land, not a human, out of the sea. The one standing on the seashore from chapter 12, who was just cast out of heaven by Michael at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

The 7th Trumpet is both the woe of Satan cast out, and the main purpose is the Second Coming of Christ to celebrate the end of sin and death. Adam's punishment is over. The nations now belong to the Lamb, triumphant over Satan, sin, and the defeat of death. The harvest of the Trumpets and Thunders, sheep and wheat is over. All is resolved except for the small bit if Satan gets 3.5 years or not. Whoever of the church concedes that Satan gets 3.5 years have already been overcome by Satan and have given into Satan's deception. They are the foolish virgins. They will probably wonder why they are still alive on earth after the Trumpets and Thunders. They are surprised they are still alive and not part of Christ at all. They are still waiting for that Antichrist, they were taught was coming, but never came. Well guess what, they may now finally get what they are waiting for; 3.5 years of sheol and Satan in control on earth.

Then any still alive at the end, will receive the 7 vials of wrath, prepared for Satan and those who worshipped Satan. Whoever fails to rightly divide God’s Word, and separate from the first half of the tribulation does a diservice to themselves. John places the vials chapters apart, and inserts Satan and his 3.5 years as an interruption. Similar to what Daniel says that midweek, the celebration will be halted, and Satan will be allowed by God to take over. The only reason is because the church failed and was a harlot instead of being 10 wise virgins. Will things play out different if there are 6 wise virgins and only 4 foolish? Jesus set the bar at 50/50. How does the church overcome Satan instead of living with Satan for 3.5 years like most on this forum teach?

keras said:

Actual scriptural proof, please!

My intent is to help the deceived to see the truth before its too late.
If you can't stand criticism, go to the Rapture Forum; I got kicked off that one!

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I provided you Scriptural truth many times over the years and you just flat out it ignore it or twist it to fit your narrative.
And it isn't about "taking criticism " it is about your condescending, hostile attitude that is an issue.
As far as RF is concerned, you got kicked off for blatantly breaking the rules and continued to do so after being warned.
RF is 100% Pre-Trib and you knew that , but decided to break the rules anyway.
I'm not deceived friend . I know the truth about end times prophecy, plus I have the indwelling of The Holy Spirit that convicts and guides me.
A Pre-trib view is the only view that is in harmony with the whole of Scripture.

Timtofly said:

Do you not understand in Scripture how first mention of a person is not with a given name? You have to introduce Messiah first, then Antichrist.

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What kind of drummed up baloney is that?

When Jesus warns of a pseudo-Christ coming to work great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect, which He did give that warning for the end in His Olivet discourse, it does not require us to have read 1 John 2:18 first to understand just who our Lord Jesus was indirectly pointing to. He gave us the first big clue in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 in parable form about what Satan did, and wants to do, with sitting over God's congregation and being worshiped in place of God. We do not... have to hear or read the word "antichrist" first in order to understand that!

You people don't care what baloney you have to tell to try and get God's people away from understanding about the coming false-Messiah, do you? When the Biblical evidence is clearly shown, you people continue to make up themes that are un-Biblical to try and tear it down.

Davy said:

What kind of drummed up baloney is that?

When Jesus warns of a pseudo-Christ coming to work great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect, which He did give that warning for the end in His Olivet discourse, it does not require us to have read 1 John 2:18 first to understand just who our Lord Jesus was indirectly pointing to. He gave us the first big clue in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 in parable form about what Satan did, and wants to do, with sitting over God's congregation and being worshiped in place of God. We do not... have to hear or read the word "antichrist" first in order to understand that!

You people don't care what baloney you have to tell to try and get God's people away from understanding about the coming false-Messiah, do you? When the Biblical evidence is clearly shown, you people continue to make up themes that are un-Biblical to try and tear it down.

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And some people claim that when Jesus does come back, they will think He is the Antichrist. Because they were not looking for Antichrist.

Timtofly said:

And some people claim that when Jesus does come back, they will think He is the Antichrist. Because they were not looking for Antichrist.

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Only one of Christ's enemies would ever think He could be The Antichrist. I have NEVER heard anyone saying when Jesus returns they will think He is the Antichrist!

Reason is, is because that is IMPOSSIBLE! When Lord Jesus returns EVERYONE is going to KNOW beyond all doubt Who He is, GOD The Son, Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last, KING of kings and LORD of lords.

Davy said:

Only one of Christ's enemies would ever think He could be The Antichrist. I have NEVER heard anyone saying when Jesus returns they will think He is the Antichrist!

Reason is, is because that is IMPOSSIBLE! When Lord Jesus returns EVERYONE is going to KNOW beyond all doubt Who He is, GOD The Son, Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last, KING of kings and LORD of lords.

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Since the Lamb comes before Satan, no need to wait or speculate on an Antichrist. Satan will reveal him. If you see Satan, it is too late. Satan comes after the Lamb and before the Antichrist. If you are looking for Christ and prepared, you will not be here to even see Satan, much less an Antichrist.

Timtofly said:

Since the Lamb comes before Satan, no need to wait or speculate on an Antichrist. Satan will reveal him. If you see Satan, it is too late. Satan comes after the Lamb and before the Antichrist. If you are looking for Christ and prepared, you will not be here to even see Satan, much less an Antichrist.

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One thing I am certain of. YOU don't know who the coming Antichrist will be, simply because you are not staying in God's Word. So good luck with that deception.

Davy said:

One thing I am certain of. YOU don't know who the coming Antichrist will be, simply because you are not staying in God's Word. So good luck with that deception.

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I know Satan is the greatest Antichrist of all. No one knows who the Antichrist human is, because that person does not exist. No such person will ever exist. Any one claiming to be Antichrist or knows who will make such a claim are liars. They only have the spirit of antichrist. I stay in God's Word more than those whose imaginations have run wild and just make things up in their heads. There are no conspiracy theories in Scripture. Judas literally sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Peter literally denied knowing Jesus. Those were not conspiracy theories.

Timtofly said:

I know Satan is the greatest Antichrist of all. No one knows who the Antichrist human is, because that person does not exist. No such person will ever exist. Any one claiming to be Antichrist or knows who will make such a claim are liars. They only have the spirit of antichrist. I stay in God's Word more than those whose imaginations have run wild and just make things up in their heads. There are no conspiracy theories in Scripture. Judas literally sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Peter literally denied knowing Jesus. Those were not conspiracy theories.

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If you don't realize that Satan as himself, is coming to this earth with his angels, de facto, in person, in plain sight, playing God, then you will be deceived. He has the image of man just like we do. God created the angels with that image of man also, since it originates from God's Own Image per Genesis 1:26-27. How soon brethren forget God's Word when listening to men's doctrines! And you say you stay in it. You do not. You stay in men's doctrines, which the idea that the coming Antichrist must be a human flesh born man is one of their pet false doctrines. But go ahead, follow those men if you can't follow God's Word as written. I have revealed this plenty enough on this forum that Satan will play God walking upon this earth in plain sight for the end.

Timtofly said:

Since the Lamb comes before Satan, no need to wait or speculate on an Antichrist. Satan will reveal him. If you see Satan, it is too late. Satan comes after the Lamb and before the Antichrist. If you are looking for Christ and prepared, you will not be here to even see Satan, much less an Antichrist.

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Please show us a verse where the population will SEE Satan.

Davy said:

You left the Scriptures with that idea. The 7th Trumpet is when Jesus returns to end Satan's reign; it's plain as day in the Revelation 11 chapter, because it says there on the 7th Trumpet all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and His Son.

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What chapter 11 does NOT say anything about is a coming of our Lord. It is more like a property CLOSING, where a legal transfer of property takes place. It is CLEARLY written that Jesus returns in chapter 19, not in chapter 11.

Davy said:

Dan 12:1-2
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV

Those events Lord Jesus covered in His Olivet discourse about the great tribulation. Notice Archangel Michael makes a 'stand', and then that time of trouble starts, which is the tribulation. That event about Michael there is the same event of Revelation 12:7-9 when Michael and his angels boot Satan and his out of the heavenly down to the earth for the tribulation. Two or more witnesses, there you go.

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Good point. It seems few people make this connection. I would only add that I believe Michael stands up at the sounding of the 7th trumpet. That is why He is to go to war. in other words, Dan. 12:1 is at the midpoint of the week.

Davy said:

The Revelation 13 Scripture doesn't mention the false prophet. That idea is man adding to that Scripture. It means leaving God's Word as written again, something I said it wouldn't be long before you did it.

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I disagree: it certainly mentions the false prophet as the second beast; just does not NAME him as the false prophet. John does that later, in chapters 16 and 19. This second beast is certainly the same entity as the False Prophet named later in the book. It will be he who performs the false miracles that helps deceive the world.