Acts 7:48 - is God's presence in the tabernacles?

Markie Boy

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I have always heard that to be interpreted to mean that God is not contained or confined to the dwelling. Christ is present in the Eucharist which is reserved in the tabernacle, but he's not in any way constrained there.

That sounds better. But I can't help but wonder if some ideas like having the tabernacle are things the early church didn't do for a reason other than just persecution.

It's hard to look at some of these things and not see Judaism creeping back into Christianity. We know Paul set up churches, and came back later and they had already gotten off base. So they were set up by a real Apostle, and in a short enough time got off base that he had to write them or come back and correct them.
 
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Guojing

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Let me rephrase your question to make more sense:

So what will make the final decision on who Christ actually is?

The Nicene Creed which describes what we believe about Who we believe in is a good place to start. Do you know about the creed?

For example, Acts 7:48, the literal context talks about David and Solomon planning to build/build a temple for God.

But you guys claimed it is about Christ. But if you want to spiritualize the passage like that to link to Christ, there are many different ways one can do so.

Who then decides which spiritualization about Christ is the correct one?
 
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Justin-H.S.

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For example, Acts 7:48, the literal context talks about David and Solomon planning to build/build a temple for God.

But you guys claimed it is about Christ. But if you want to spiritualize the passage like that to link to Christ, there are many different ways one can do so.

Who then decides which spiritualization about Christ is the correct one?

Instead of “spiritualize the message,” the correct term is “Typology.” The correct Old Testament typology is which ever one correctly points to Christ. I say “correctly” because there are many incorrect “Christ’s” in the world.

Yet the most High dwells not in temples made with hands; as says the prophet, - Acts 7:48

This was shown indeed already by what had been before said: but it is shown also by the voice of a prophet; What house will you build for Me? Says the Lord God. As says the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will you build for me? Says the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things? Isaiah 66:1-2

Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will you build me? says the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? - Acts 7:49

Nay, not even these are worthy of God, forasmuch as they are made, seeing they are creatures, the works of His hand. See how he leads them on little by little (showing) that not even these are to be mentioned. And again the prophecy says openly, What house will you build Me? etc.

Has not my hand made all these things? - Acts 7:50

Marvel not, he says, if they on whom Christ confers His benefits refuse His kingdom, seeing in the case of Moses it was just the same. What is the reason that at this point he speaks in the tone of invective (καταφορικὥς)? Great was his boldness of speech, when at the point to die: for in fact I think he knew that this was the case. You stiffnecked, he says, and uncircumcised in heart and ears. This also is from the prophets: nothing is of himself. You do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

- St John Chrysostom

So, the question is Who was St Paul talking about? Who were resisting Christ? Who historically resisted the Lord their God (in the Old Testament)?
 
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narnia59

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That sounds better. But I can't help but wonder if some ideas like having the tabernacle are things the early church didn't do for a reason other than just persecution.

It's hard to look at some of these things and not see Judaism creeping back into Christianity. We know Paul set up churches, and came back later and they had already gotten off base. So they were set up by a real Apostle, and in a short enough time got off base that he had to write them or come back and correct them.
It is the continued role of the Church to correct when things are going off base. And things will go off base anytime there is a group of people not yet perfected.
 
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Markie Boy

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All said and done - I have yet to see anything that Jesus is specifically in the Gold Tabernacle in a church. Those passages in Acts just say it ain't so. I have seen his dwelling in the circumcised hearts of believers however.
 
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ArmyMatt

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All said and done - I have yet to see anything that Jesus is specifically in the Gold Tabernacle in a church. Those passages in Acts just say it ain't so. I have seen his dwelling in the circumcised hearts of believers however.

the Tabernacle contains His Body and Blood, and Christ isn't divided. so yeah, He is in there. the passages in Acts don't refute that point.
 
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Nick T

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I think you're way overthinking this. Christ isn't a prisoner in the tabernacle, and nor is it supposed to be some kind of "house" for him. The tabernacle is just a word we use for the place where the Eucharist is stored in order to give it to the sick- it could literally just be a box. Its not a mystical concept and in fact was not originally a universal practice but one which developed according to practical need.

What we are really talking about here is Christ-in-the-Eucharist and as Fr. Matt has already said thats not a house made by human hands but the sacred temple of his Body that he took on for our sake at the Incarnation. His presence on our earthly altar is an image of his presence as the Lamb that was slain on the heavenly altar in Revelations- slain not to sit in a "house made by human hands" but to be consumed by the faithful which is exactly what happens to the Eucharist kept temporarily in the tabernacle.
 
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Brighid

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All said and done - I have yet to see anything that Jesus is specifically in the Gold Tabernacle in a church. Those passages in Acts just say it ain't so. I have seen his dwelling in the circumcised hearts of believers however.
Please forgive me for butting in, but have you been to a Divine Liturgy?
 
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Not David

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I think you're way overthinking this. Christ isn't a prisoner in the tabernacle, and nor is it supposed to be some kind of "house" for him. The tabernacle is just a word we use for the place where the Eucharist is stored in order to give it to the sick- it could literally just be a box. Its not a mystical concept and in fact was not originally a universal practice but one which developed according to practical need.

What we are really talking about here is Christ-in-the-Eucharist and as Fr. Matt has already said thats not a house made by human hands but the sacred temple of his Body that he took on for our sake at the Incarnation. His presence on our earthly altar is an image of his presence as the Lamb that was slain on the heavenly altar in Revelations- slain not to sit in a "house made by human hands" but to be consumed by the faithful which is exactly what happens to the Eucharist kept temporarily in the tabernacle.
This. No one is saying that is a little house where Christ lives.
 
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Markie Boy

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Please forgive me for butting in, but have you been to a Divine Liturgy?

Not yet. The closest EO parish is a good drive, but I did talk to the priest once on the phone. It's my only hope to stay in something Apostolic, as I have simply proven to myself Rome ain't it.
 
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Brighid

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I am a catechumen and all I can share is my experience, but once I experienced Divine Liturgy, I KNEW that Christ was there, with us. It is something that can't be explained but can't be denied once you have experienced it. I don't know anything about the box or tabernacle but I know that Christ is everywhere in the Church, I'm sure the box is no exception, lol.
How far are you from a church? I live an hour away from my parish and almost an hour and a half away from a monastery. At first I thought it was too far to drive but now I can't keep myself away from Church. God has continually made a way for me to go, even when I thought I didn't have money for gas.
I pray that God will make a way for you to come to a church service!:prayer:
 
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Brighid

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Also, you can find great inquirers and catechism videos on YouTube, in case you haven't done that. Metropolitan Jonah Paffhausen has a lot of really great videos and he includes the history of the Church in great detail in his "enquirer series". It's about 13 videos but of course, you can just choose whatever topic looks interesting to you. He also has excellent lectures on contemplative prayer, confession, in-depth studies on some of the books of the Bible, etc.
Another video you might like is a lecture given by Fr. Josiah Trenham, called "An Orthodox perspective on Catholicism"
 
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