How to choose between creation and evolution.
- Thread starter OldWiseGuy
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Kylie
Defeater of Illogic
I'll believe that when I see it.
Of course, given that there have been plenty of chances for God to provide the Bible to groups of people who never had the chance to get it originally - long lost tribes in the Amazon, etc - and they never got it, I'd say that God had his chance and he dropped the ball on it.
I mean, if it's so important that we get the Bible that you are convinced he'd provide it again, why wasn't important enough that he'd make sure the lost Amazon tribes get it as well?
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You won't though. Matthew makes that quite clear.
As I have pointed out before, no one is going to be without excuse -- no one. And therefore I believe they get enough information from the stars (the plan of salvation is in the stars) that they can make the right choice.Kylie said:
What do you think the Great Commission is for?Kylie said:
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I'm not sure of what 'the chances' were that we got it in the first place!? So who knows?
(Which I think may reinforce the point of your hypothetical ..)
Relativity, gravity, electromagnetism were human developed concepts .. (admittedly built on accumulated knowledge which, (somewhat inconsistently), you removed in the hypothetical in which your own mind was still present and still controlling(?)). They then form the basis of our reality. There's no need to believe reality was 'a thing' awaiting 'discovery'. What was happening there is that humans were exploring their own perceptions/observations like: noticing apples always appear to fall downwards .. and then developing explanations which makes sense to us, of that. There is nothing in that which stands independent of our own observations of your 'fabric', (which is yet another physical concept invoked from your own knowledgebase .. yet that was supposed to have been removed?).Kylie said:
All of that is beside your point though, (which was nonetheless, one I actually 'warm' to).
My issue is that I don't think the hypothetical was unbiased because you didn't remove the knowledge (ie: your own) which controls the progress of the hypothetical .. and thus biases the conclusion.
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Ahh .. there goes that prehistoric/neolithic age-developed concept of 'Heaven' again ..
Sigh!
I'll bite .. What is 'the Great Commission'?AV1611VET said:
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Speedwell
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You have taken various positions on Genesis: Moses wrote it, Adam wrote it, and now Jesus wrote it?
The "plan of salvation in the stars" does not contain enough information to reconstruct Genesis word-for-word.
To preach the Good news of our salvation in Christ.
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Speedwell
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Jesus' instruction to His disciples in Matt 28: 19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
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Welcome to Amaneunsis 101.
That is correct. One does not have to believe Genesis 1 literally in order to be saved.Speedwell said:
Yup.Speedwell said:
Pretend you're a member of a ... as Kylie put it ... "long lost tribe in the Amazon."
Your name is Joe.
You see the stars at night and, as David puts it ...
Psalm 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
As well as ...
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4a Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.
At this point, I believe you have reached your individual "age of accountability."
After all, Jesus is drawing you to Him ...
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
He is also knocking at your heart's door ...
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
But if he does what atheists do ...
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
He is in danger of Hell fire.
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It's amazing how God gets limited out of existence.
The more science grows, the less God can [allegedly] do, until [allegedly] He no longer exists.
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Is that why I had to explain how a "lost Amazon tribe" had access to the Gospel?
If science understands the truth of Psalm 19:1, I'm Genghis Khan.
Scientists can't understand the fourth and fifth words of the the Bible, and the third word is certainly an enigma.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the word "kind" in Genesis 1? well, that's off the scale!
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Speedwell
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Science says nothing about the fourth and fifth words of the Bible, one way or the other.
Did you miss my other comment about theology? One of the babies that got tossed out with the Reformation bathwater. The grotesque error of Sola Scriptura doesn't begin to make up for it.And the word "kind" in Genesis 1? well, that's off the scale!
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Just Psalm 19:1, right?
Ah, yes.Speedwell said:
The Reformation -- the Church of Sardis.
Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
So rather than strengthen Sola Scriptura, they let her go ahead and die, did they?
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