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bbbbbbb

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Amen!!

Matt. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Certainly Paul still believed there was value in even the least of God's Laws, more that 14 years after Jesus ascended.

1 Cor. 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

If this Commandment still has value and was written for our sake's, and has not passed contrary to what so many religious men preach, then surely the 10 Commandments must have greater value.

I have come to appreciate your matter of fact take on many doctrines. Thank you for that.

Jesus certainly did instruct men to "Live by" Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God. Was He telling us a Lie?

I appreciate that you are Seventh Day Adventist. In my interactions here at CF with various (primarily two) other SDA's the bottom line has been that only the Ten Commandments are to be obeyed and all other commandments are secondary, at best, or utterly worthless, at worst.

The conundrum I find with professed Law-keepers is that if they do venture beyond the Ten Commandments they get quickly and irretrievably mired. For example, I have yet to meet anyone today who does not kindle a fire on the Sabbath, yet the commandment is quite clear that no fire can be kindled on the Sabbath.
 
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guevaraj

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Hi Jorge, sorry I cannot let you keep trying to make us believe what you write. It is not the truth according to the written Word.
Brother, not everything I say comes from my study, some of what I picked up along the way I did not question. I have put more effort into the study of the Sabbath than other areas that arise when I share the Sabbath. It was someone on a forum similar to this that made me study the Sabbath more thoroughly.
I have a question for you Jorge. According to your understanding will I be lost because I don't observe the Sabbath and more specific will I be lost if I don't keep it according to your teachings?
What I can tell you is that you will not go to heaven if you are alive and not of the resurrected when Jesus returns, and that you will remain on earth if you are not destroyed. My personal understanding is that God sees three groups with three different destinies when Jesus returns.

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:15-16 NIV)​

Jesus means by “spit you out of my mouth” that you are not ready to go to heaven when He returns and will be left behind on the earth, neither cold to destroy nor hot to take to His Father’s house. Those who will fight Jesus at Armageddon will be destroyed. Those who are ready with all the truth in the Bible, including the Sabbath, will go to heaven with Jesus. And the rest of the living who are not of the resurrected and who need further growth will remain on earth for the thousand years with the part of Israel that hardened until the full number of the gentiles “come in” that Jesus will take to heaven. Those in need of further growth like Judaism will remain on earth with the help of Israel, now fully convinced of Jesus.

To the angel of the church in Thyatira write: These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first… Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, except to hold on to what you have until I come.’ To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give that one the morning star. Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. (Revelation 2:18-29 NIV)​

Those who have not grown up with the truths of the New Testament, but who have held on to what they have, like the Jews with the Old Testament, will be given authority over the nations and will rule them with an iron scepter for a thousand years.
Jesus' shadow? Why would I study a shadow when I have the reality?
It is easier to see the proper relationship that Jesus expects with the shadow than with reality, mainly because Jesus only dies once and the animal sacrifices were many. It was easier to see what we should do each time we fall, rather than assuming there is no further need for repentance after accepting Jesus, which was made easier by removing the law that reminds us that we are not growing in obedience to the law.
Oh! I know, you got that from the writings of Ellen White. It certainly is not Biblical. Mrs White wrote many things that are not true.
Told was she that we would learn more about the Sabbath. Specifically, “when it is” that “even” falls after having understood “what even is”, the sunset. Her inspiration is right even when she did not understand it. She was a great woman; I wish she was alive to confirm my find about the Sabbath.
I obey the first three commands because they are part of morality and are included in the Royal Law of Love as are all of issues dealing with morality.
I have no idea how you can justify taking apart what God put together and raised by writing it with His own finger. The Bible has a name for your preaching, we have been forewarned, be on guard so that you do not get carried away by the error of the “lawless”.

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. (2 Peter 3:13-17 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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SwordmanJr

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I'm afraid you're talking over my head. Without venturing into abstract (if you'll pardon me this much), exactly what is it that the letter kills in your estimation?

That's a reasonable question. The Greed work translated as "killeth" in 2 Cor. 3:6 has the following for its defining set of definitions:

  1. to kill in any way whatever
    1. to destroy, to allow to perish
  2. metaph. to extinguish, abolish
    1. to inflict mortal death
    2. to deprive of spiritual life and procure eternal misery in hell
The Thayer's Greek Lexicon for that verse points to the latter as the relevant definition in its grammatical usage in that verse.

Additionally, the context is drawing a line of contrast between living by the Spirit of the Lord and by faith contrasted with that of the letter of the Law. One gives life, the other leads to death given our inability to live it by the Spirit who gave that Law.

Therein is the reason why the OT saints were held in Abraham's Bosom across the gulf within Sheol until Jesus fulfilled the letter concerning His and His mission of redemption and cleansing, thus leading them, the captives, free into paradise.

Without that fulfillment that Jesus provided, the letter would never have sufficed to bring the OT saints, nor the NT saints, into the presence of the Most High.

I kind of doubt we agree on the nature of the second death.

It doesn't matter if we agree on that. It's a peripheral matter, not central to who Christ Jesus is and the Spirit by which we are to live.

Jr
 
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Bob S

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Bob, that's not a fair question and, respectfully, I suspect you know why.

Well, I guess Gorge didn't agree with your analysis because he answered the question and I quote it. "What I can tell you is that you will not go to heaven if you are alive and not of the resurrected when Jesus returns, and that you will remain on earth if you are not destroyed. My personal understanding is that God sees three groups with three different destinies when Jesus returns.''

I wonder when the Sabbath of the now defunct old covenant became a salvational command?
 
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SwordmanJr

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So then when Jesus says; Men shall "Live By" Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God", you are telling me Jesus is Lying to me, because the Word of God only kills?

Who was He talking to in that conversation? What was the context, and what was the extent to which His statements could be drawn for deeper understanding? Those on the milk will not pick up on it yet, but perhaps someday they will.

There are two entirely different definitions for "live" in that one verse. Thayer's Greek Lexicon points out a number of definitions, but only two apply to that verse. Bread provides nourishment for a continuance for physical life, the other definition laid down by the Lord, as shown within the Greek, is akin to "living water, having vital power in itself and exerting the same upon the soul".

Do you not recall when Jesus spoke with the woman at the well? Has not the Spirit of the Lord opened your eyes to deeper things of that same Spirit, or have you not even asked?

They worshiped in the manner prescribed by the LETTER, which was always incapable of giving life and Spirit. No, Jesus told her the day was coming when they would not worship in that temple nor upon that mount, but would worship the Father IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH, NOT by the letter that defined the worship in the physical temple built by the hands of men.

The parallels are staggeringly powerful and telling, where they support and uphold the magnitude of what was to come upon the fulfillments that Jesus provided through His wondrous sacrifice of Himself in perfect obedience unto the Father.

Jr
 
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pasifika

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Brother, we believe that they are all under the umbrella of the ten commandments written by the form of the finger of Jesus before the incarnation. Jesus reveals below: He is the one they heard on the mountain and Moses saw the finger writing the ten commandments. The ten commandments are commandments of Jesus.

And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, (John 5:37 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Hello G, if you go to the next verse John 5:38 you’ll find the answer for John 5:37 you quoted. The reason why they don’t hear Gods voice nor seen His form is that they don’t “believe” in the One He has sent ( Jesus Christ). Not about 10 commandments..

John 5:37-38...And the Father who sent me has Himself testified concerning me. You have never heard His voice, nor seen His form, nor does His Word dwell in you, for you do not Believe the One He sent...
 
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guevaraj

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Hello G, if you go to the next verse John 5:38 you’ll find the answer for John 5:37 you quoted. The reason why they don’t hear Gods voice nor seen His form is that they don’t “believe” in the One He has sent ( Jesus Christ). Not about 10 commandments. John 5:37-38 ...And the Father who sent me has Himself testified concerning me. You have never heard His voice, nor seen His form, nor does His Word dwell in you, for you do not Believe the One He sent...
Brother, "και" is often understood a marker of a new sentence. (Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Nida, eds., Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains, Second Edition, New York: United Bible Societies, Vol. 1, 811.) The New International Version of the Bible you cited takes more liberty in its translation than a word-for-word translation like the King James Version of the Bible that separates the sentence in verse 38 because it begins with "και".

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But(και) you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. (John 5:37-38 NKJV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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SwordmanJr

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Hello G, if you go to the next verse John 5:38 you’ll find the answer for John 5:37 you quoted. The reason why they don’t hear Gods voice nor seen His form is that they don’t “believe” in the One He has sent ( Jesus Christ). Not about 10 commandments..

John 5:37-38...And the Father who sent me has Himself testified concerning me. You have never heard His voice, nor seen His form, nor does His Word dwell in you, for you do not Believe the One He sent...

We can add from the word of God to this:

Rom 3:11 KJV - There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 KJV - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Who is the author speaking of?

Rom 3:1 KJV - What advantage then hath the Jew [follower of the Law of Moses]? or what profit [is there] of circumcision [commanded through Abraham and all his generations unto Christ]?
Rom 3:13 KJV - Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
Rom 3:14 KJV - Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 KJV - Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 KJV - Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:

This is what following the letter does to those who place themselves under it.

Rom 3:19 KJV - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 KJV - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 KJV - But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 KJV - Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:24 KJV - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This is even more profound when we put it together with this:

Rom 3:27 KJV - Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 KJV - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 KJV - [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 KJV - Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 KJV - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The superiority of the Law He writes in our hearts is manifest through faith, that we may cast aside the letter that kills, and instead living by the Law written in our hearts by the Law Giver. The pharisees of today will continue trying to drive the stake of the letter through the hearts of others who live by faith and the Law of God written in our hearts.

Amen

Jr
 
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Studyman

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I appreciate that you are Seventh Day Adventist.

I am not SDA any more than Jesus was SDA, or Paul was SDA. The Sabbath of God is a Biblical Fact. In the KJV the Word Sabbath is repeated 147 times, 55 time in the New testament alone. Quoting God's Words, both before and after HE came to earth as a man, and considering that what they say is truth, does not make me SDA, any more that calling Jesus Lord, Lord guarantees me a free trip into heaven.

In my interactions here at CF with various (primarily two) other SDA's the bottom line has been that only the Ten Commandments are to be obeyed and all other commandments are secondary, at best, or utterly worthless, at worst.

This is not a position I hold. Nor did Jesus, and neither did Paul. Nothing I have ever posted implies or suggests I hold such a position. At least not to my knowledge.

It would be helpful if you could provide a statement from me which implies that I believe the 10 Commandments are valid, while the rest of God's instructions for His people are not. Isn't that the least you could do in your judgment of me?

I know there are false teachings followed by "Many" in this age because the Bible Prophesies of it over and over and over, and personally, I believe in the Bible. Teachings like "God placed 613 Laws on the necks of the Children He brought out of Egypt", these doctrines are untrue and made up to diminish God's Perfect and Holy Character. These teachings are religious philosophy of MEN that Paul said to beware of. As a brother, it is incumbent on me to point these lies out to the brethren in the hopes that we may discuss them and discern them for the edification of all.

Sadly, most religious men spend more time defending their self out of pride, than searching for the truth in Scriptures. Choosing instead, to place labels on folks who would dare even question their religious philosophy. Not realizing that maybe it is the Word of God that is correcting them, as with Cain, and not his brother Abel, who he took his anger for God's Word out on.

Truly there is nothing new under the sun.


The conundrum I find with professed Law-keepers is that if they do venture beyond the Ten Commandments they get quickly and irretrievably mired. For example, I have yet to meet anyone today who does not kindle a fire on the Sabbath, yet the commandment is quite clear that no fire can be kindled on the Sabbath.

Because many religious men don't really believe God's Word has purpose for them, they are not interested in "seeking" the purpose.

The point of the Sabbath was to prepare in six days, for the seventh day rest, symbolic of the flight out of Egypt which symbolizes sin, and the journey from sin to the Promised Land, eternal life. They were to prepare enough food on the sixth day to last both the sixth and seventh days.

4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

Part of preparation for food, sustenance, is cooking which in most cases require a fire which has to be built by gathering sticks and burning them to generate heat to cook.

Today we have stoves which doesn't matter because the intent of the sabbath was preparation.

God's intent was for them to prepare enough food on the sixth day for the seventh, and rest on the seventh. But Because some of the religious men of that time didn't really believe God's Word had a purpose for them, much like today, they didn't prepare on the sixth day, and were gathering sticks for a fire on the Sabbath. This total disrespect and indifference from the same men God Spared from the death angel by the Blood of the Unblemished Lamb angers God a Great Deal.

Paul said these Examples were specifically written for "Our Admonition", so that we would not lust after the same things they lusted after. Like rebelling against such a basic, easy, perfectly doable commandment designed to teach men to prepare for a time yet to come. Have you ever read the story of the foolish virgins? Same theme.

At any rate, your judgment of me is untrue. I am not SDA.
 
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SwordmanJr

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I am not SDA any more than Jesus was SDA, or Paul was SDA. The Sabbath of God is a Biblical Fact.

What this says, then, is that the sabbath legalism didn't originate with the SDA, you, or anyone else here. This started with the Jusaisers in Paul's day. Same old story, just having been repeated from that time until modern times....and beyond, for pharisaical legalism will not end here.

In the KJV the Word Sabbath is repeated 147 times, 55 time in the New testament alone. Quoting God's Words, both before and after HE came to earth as a man, and considering that what they say is truth, does not make me SDA, any more that calling Jesus Lord, Lord guarantees me a free trip into heaven.

And that's supposed to mean.....what? Your brand of legalism is superior to that of other legalists who also fall daily upon their own sword of the letter that kills? That's an exercise in futility.

I know there are false teachings followed by "Many" in this age because the Bible Prophesies of it over and over and over, and personally, I believe in the Bible. Teachings like "God placed 613 Laws on the necks of the Children He brought out of Egypt", these doctrines are untrue and made up to diminish God's Perfect and Holy Character.

You do err in thinking that the Law of Moses laid upon the Jews of that covenant also applying to us who are under the New Covenant. The Law of Moses has NOT been done away with, for the sake of those who would think that is what I'm saying. No. The difference is in what Paul, James, and Peter had to say on the matter that you have consistently rejected throughout these forums of the items I have read. You seem to not like it at all that we are free from the letter.

You choose to swing that knife around at others, as if we have any reason to fear it sticking us. No. It's a puny little sticker you're swinging about, a blade that no longer has the ability to harm anyone but yourself. I will defend your right to live by that little, broken off blade, but will not try to use it myself. The double-edged Sword of the word of God is what I wield.

Go for it, dude. Your sabbath is yours.

Lev 25:2 KJV - Speak unto the children of Israel [do you get this?], and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD. [Emphasis mine]

They didn't even begin keeping the sabbath until AFTER they entered the land. That renders your house of cards a crumpled heap, along with many other verses throughout. You can't legitimately judge anoyone else on the basis of sabbaths, feasts or anything else.

BY the superiority of the Law written in my Heart by the Law Giver, I don't need the letter of the Law of Moses nor the Ten Commandments.

2Co 3:3 KJV - [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

When those stone tablets pop you up-side da head, they crack skulls open. No thanks. You go by the letter, and I will go by the Law Giver.

Jr
 
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Studyman

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Who was He talking to in that conversation? What was the context, and what was the extent to which His statements could be drawn for deeper understanding? Those on the milk will not pick up on it yet, but perhaps someday they will.

From my understanding Jesus was Quoting the Word's of His Father to battle against the spiritual powers of the air that was tempting Him.. In other words, He was using the Armor of God and the Sword of the Spirit to fight against temptation.

Duet. 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man (Jew or Gentile) doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

There are two entirely different definitions for "live" in that one verse. Thayer's Greek Lexicon points out a number of definitions, but only two apply to that verse. Bread provides nourishment for a continuance for physical life, the other definition laid down by the Lord, as shown within the Greek, is akin to "living water, having vital power in itself and exerting the same upon the soul".

Do you not recall when Jesus spoke with the woman at the well? Has not the Spirit of the Lord opened your eyes to deeper things of that same Spirit, or have you not even asked?

I have read the Word's of the Jesus of the Bible you are speaking of.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

They worshiped in the manner prescribed by the LETTER, which was always incapable of giving life and Spirit. No, Jesus told her the day was coming when they would not worship in that temple nor upon that mount, but would worship the Father IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH, NOT by the letter that defined the worship in the physical temple built by the hands of men.

This is your personal religious philosophy. Jesus never said any such thing. The word "Letter" is no mentioned in any translation I have read. That is your addition, to promote your religious philosophy that God's Word can not be trusted because it kills.

What is sad is that it seems you truly don't believe the Written Word of God is Truth.

Jn. 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Without the Word of God we have nothing. No Spirit, no life. If the Word of God only Kills, as you are preaching, then why did Jesus Quote these Letters in resisting the devil? I am so sorry you have been convinced that God's Words are not Spirit, and are not life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

The parallels are staggeringly powerful and telling, where they support and uphold the magnitude of what was to come upon the fulfillments that Jesus provided through His wondrous sacrifice of Himself in perfect obedience unto the Father.
Jr

1 Jn. 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

[STAFF EDITED]
 
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bbbbbbb

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I am not SDA any more than Jesus was SDA, or Paul was SDA. The Sabbath of God is a Biblical Fact. In the KJV the Word Sabbath is repeated 147 times, 55 time in the New testament alone. Quoting God's Words, both before and after HE came to earth as a man, and considering that what they say is truth, does not make me SDA, any more that calling Jesus Lord, Lord guarantees me a free trip into heaven.

This is not a position I hold. Nor did Jesus, and neither did Paul. Nothing I have ever posted implies or suggests I hold such a position. At least not to my knowledge.

It would be helpful if you could provide a statement from me which implies that I believe the 10 Commandments are valid, while the rest of God's instructions for His people are not. Isn't that the least you could do in your judgment of me?

I know there are false teachings followed by "Many" in this age because the Bible Prophesies of it over and over and over, and personally, I believe in the Bible. Teachings like "God placed 613 Laws on the necks of the Children He brought out of Egypt", these doctrines are untrue and made up to diminish God's Perfect and Holy Character. These teachings are religious philosophy of MEN that Paul said to beware of. As a brother, it is incumbent on me to point these lies out to the brethren in the hopes that we may discuss them and discern them for the edification of all.

Sadly, most religious men spend more time defending their self out of pride, than searching for the truth in Scriptures. Choosing instead, to place labels on folks who would dare even question their religious philosophy. Not realizing that maybe it is the Word of God that is correcting them, as with Cain, and not his brother Abel, who he took his anger for God's Word out on.

Truly there is nothing new under the sun.

Because many religious men don't really believe God's Word has purpose for them, they are not interested in "seeking" the purpose.

The point of the Sabbath was to prepare in six days, for the seventh day rest, symbolic of the flight out of Egypt which symbolizes sin, and the journey from sin to the Promised Land, eternal life. They were to prepare enough food on the sixth day to last both the sixth and seventh days.

4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

Part of preparation for food, sustenance, is cooking which in most cases require a fire which has to be built by gathering sticks and burning them to generate heat to cook.

Today we have stoves which doesn't matter because the intent of the sabbath was preparation.

God's intent was for them to prepare enough food on the sixth day for the seventh, and rest on the seventh. But Because some of the religious men of that time didn't really believe God's Word had a purpose for them, much like today, they didn't prepare on the sixth day, and were gathering sticks for a fire on the Sabbath. This total disrespect and indifference from the same men God Spared from the death angel by the Blood of the Unblemished Lamb angers God a Great Deal.

Paul said these Examples were specifically written for "Our Admonition", so that we would not lust after the same things they lusted after. Like rebelling against such a basic, easy, perfectly doable commandment designed to teach men to prepare for a time yet to come. Have you ever read the story of the foolish virgins? Same theme.

At any rate, your judgment of me is untrue. I am not SDA.

Oddly enough, my post was in response to one by guevaraj and not yourself. He does identify himself as SDA and I would not identify you as such considering that you identify yourself as "Christian". I do not know why you chose to interject your commentary in our dialogue and see no reason to respond to it as Swordmanjr has done an excellent job in addressing your points.
 
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Major1

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From my understanding Jesus was Quoting the Word's of His Father to battle against the spiritual powers of the air that was tempting Him.. In other words, He was using the Armor of God and the Sword of the Spirit to fight against temptation.

Duet. 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man (Jew or Gentile) doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.



I have read the Word's of the Jesus of the Bible you are speaking of.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.



This is your personal religious philosophy. Jesus never said any such thing. The word "Letter" is no mentioned in any translation I have read. That is your addition, to promote your religious philosophy that God's Word can not be trusted because it kills.

What is sad is that it seems you truly don't believe the Written Word of God is Truth.

Jn. 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Without the Word of God we have nothing. No Spirit, no life. If the Word of God only Kills, as you are preaching, then why did Jesus Quote these Letters in resisting the devil? I am so sorry you have been convinced that God's Words are not Spirit, and are not life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.



1 Jn. 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

[STAFF EDITED]

I do not have a dog in this hunt. I just have been reading the comments and I came across yours.

Now do YOU believe that YOU responded to my good friend @"bbbbbbb" in a manner of Christian love and respect?

The Scriptures YOU claim to love and honor say in Gal. 6:1....
“Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted”.

Your comments to "bbbbbb" in my opinion are out of line and you should apologize to her for such a show of disrespect.

James 3:13 (.....
Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.
 
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Major1

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I appreciate that you are Seventh Day Adventist. In my interactions here at CF with various (primarily two) other SDA's the bottom line has been that only the Ten Commandments are to be obeyed and all other commandments are secondary, at best, or utterly worthless, at worst.

The conundrum I find with professed Law-keepers is that if they do venture beyond the Ten Commandments they get quickly and irretrievably mired. For example, I have yet to meet anyone today who does not kindle a fire on the Sabbath, yet the commandment is quite clear that no fire can be kindled on the Sabbath.

Agreed. You are right on!

The problem for them is that their denominational teaching opens them up for the actions of real life which shows that what they are told and what they believe simply does not apply.

But.....because they are so entrenched in their denominational dogma, they can not then admit that....
"OOOPS-----we have a problem and maybe what we have been told is not correct".

They can not admit that because of PRIDE.
 
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guevaraj

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Agreed. You are right on! The problem for them is that their denominational teaching opens them up for the actions of real life which shows that what they are told and what they believe simply does not apply. But.....because they are so entrenched in their denominational dogma, they can not then admit that.... "OOOPS-----we have a problem and maybe what we have been told is not correct". They can not admit that because of PRIDE.
Brother, I admit that we are wrong about the Sabbath. We inherited from Jews a human tradition about the Sabbath in places other than Israel. The Jews have never understood that the days in Genesis are from morning to morning and that a Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week, but actually falls between two days of the week: the night of the sixth day and the light of the seventh day. In Genesis, the first day is from first light to light again in the morning and later days until the first Sabbath from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Major1

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Brother, not everything I say comes from my study, some of what I picked up along the way I did not question. I have put more effort into the study of the Sabbath than other areas that arise when I share the Sabbath. It was someone on a forum similar to this that made me study the Sabbath more thoroughly.

What I can tell you is that you will not go to heaven if you are alive and not of the resurrected when Jesus returns, and that you will remain on earth if you are not destroyed. My personal understanding is that God sees three groups with three different destinies when Jesus returns.

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:15-16 NIV)​

Jesus means by “spit you out of my mouth” that you are not ready to go to heaven when He returns and will be left behind on the earth, neither cold to destroy nor hot to take to His Father’s house. Those who will fight Jesus at Armageddon will be destroyed. Those who are ready with all the truth in the Bible, including the Sabbath, will go to heaven with Jesus. And the rest of the living who are not of the resurrected and who need further growth will remain on earth for the thousand years with the part of Israel that hardened until the full number of the gentiles “come in” that Jesus will take to heaven. Those in need of further growth like Judaism will remain on earth with the help of Israel, now fully convinced of Jesus.

To the angel of the church in Thyatira write: These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first… Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, except to hold on to what you have until I come.’ To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give that one the morning star. Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. (Revelation 2:18-29 NIV)​

Those who have not grown up with the truths of the New Testament, but who have held on to what they have, like the Jews with the Old Testament, will be given authority over the nations and will rule them with an iron scepter for a thousand years.

It is easier to see the proper relationship that Jesus expects with the shadow than with reality, mainly because Jesus only dies once and the animal sacrifices were many. It was easier to see what we should do each time we fall, rather than assuming there is no further need for repentance after accepting Jesus, which was made easier by removing the law that reminds us that we are not growing in obedience to the law.

Told was she that we would learn more about the Sabbath. Specifically, “when it is” that “even” falls after having understood “what even is”, the sunset. Her inspiration is right even when she did not understand it. She was a great woman; I wish she was alive to confirm my find about the Sabbath.

I have no idea how you can justify taking apart what God put together and raised by writing it with His own finger. The Bible has a name for your preaching, we have been forewarned, be on guard so that you do not get carried away by the error of the “lawless”.

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. (2 Peter 3:13-17 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello Jorge. I see that you are being a faithful SDA church member. Allow me to ask you some questions and see how you respond to them, shall we???

Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about he Sabbath, but were instructed regarding:
1. Offerings: Gen 4:3-4,
2. Altars Gen 8:20,
3. Priests: Gen 14:18,
4. Tithes: Gen 14:20,
5. Circumcision: Gen 17:10,
6. Marriage: Gen 2:24 & Gen 34:9.

But nothing on the Sabbath?

Since SDA theology has placed Sabbath keeping as its #1 point of believing, Why would God leave out the "all important" Sabbath command?

I know you admitted you are wrong about the Sabbath keeping, but it is still the thing you are told to do.
 
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Bob S

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I believe when you use verses that have the word commandments in it you are mistakenly believing it is referring to the ten commandments. You should know better.

Question: What commandments is John referring? I find that John did identify the commands Jesus would have us keep and they are in 1Jn 3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Simple isn't. JN 15: 9 ‘As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

What commands did Jesus live under? The Bible tells us it was the Father's commands of the Sinai covenant. Jesus made a definite statement telling us that we are to keep Jesus commands. 1Jn 3: 19-24 solves the misunderstanding.

Those of you that promote that "His commands" are the ten commandments of the old covenant are denying God's messenger, John.
 
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SwordmanJr

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From my understanding Jesus was Quoting the Word's of His Father to battle against the spiritual powers of the air that was tempting Him.. In other words, He was using the Armor of God and the Sword of the Spirit to fight against temptation.

Hmm. I don't think I can argue with that. I will add that, although Jesus could have attempted to match wits with Satan, and to even out-wit him, He instead chose what is already written.

Also of note is that He was not talking to mankind, but to the enemy of our souls.

I have read the Word's of the Jesus of the Bible you are speaking of.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-4-22/

Yes. Jesus came to the Jews, so that the Gospel would flow out from them, with the New Covenant having been established to all the world through the Jews.

Mar 7:27 KJV - But Jesus said unto her, Let the children (Jews) first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] unto the dogs.
Mar 7:28 KJV - And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
Mar 7:29 KJV - And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

Some have taken this to mean that Gentiles are akin to dogs, in a bad sense of the imagry, which is not at all the meaning.

This is your personal religious philosophy.

Thank you. I always accept what is written as opposed to the religious teachings of others.

Jesus never said any such thing. The word "Letter" is no mentioned in any translation I have read. That is your addition, to promote your religious philosophy that God's Word can not be trusted because it kills

2Co 3:6 KJV - Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Perhaps you do not accept the words of the apostles, the very men who were inspired by Jesus Himself to write this and many other things, but your rejection of the very inspiration of the TRUE Jesus portrayed within the Bible is quite remarkable.

Hey, you stick with your little altered translation that teaches another Jesus. I will stick with not only the KJV, NKJV, NAS, etc., AND the Greek-Hebrew texts from which our Bibles were translated. What liberal translation are you using that your Jesus failed to say what we can read in all the mainstream translations AND the Greek texts?

Just asking.

What I refuse to believe is YOUR warped and twisted teachings.

Jr
 
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SwordmanJr

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Hello Jorge. I see that you are being a faithful SDA church member. Allow me to ask you some questions and see how you respond to them, shall we???

Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about he Sabbath, but were instructed regarding:
1. Offerings: Gen 4:3-4,
2. Altars Gen 8:20,
3. Priests: Gen 14:18,
4. Tithes: Gen 14:20,
5. Circumcision: Gen 17:10,
6. Marriage: Gen 2:24 & Gen 34:9.

But nothing on the Sabbath?

Since SDA theology has placed Sabbath keeping as its #1 point of believing, Why would God leave out the "all important" Sabbath command?

I know you admitted you are wrong about the Sabbath keeping, but it is still the thing you are told to do.

It's interesting how SDA preachers get paid for preaching on the sabbath since that is a part of their hirling job description.

Jr
 
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What this says, then, is that the sabbath legalism didn't originate with the SDA, you, or anyone else here. This started with the Jusaisers in Paul's day. Same old story, just having been repeated from that time until modern times....and beyond, for pharisaical legalism will not end here.

Actually, according to the Holy Scriptures, the Sabbath was a creation of the Christ, the Word of God which became Flesh. According to the Holy Scriptures, the Mainstream preachers of Jesus' time had polluted HIS Holy Sabbath, much like religions today. But Jesus did not despise or pollute it, rather, He remembered to keep it Holy..

You are not the first religious man to imply Jesus was a Legalist, or that He lived in worthless Jewish traditions. And you won't be the last. It's the same ole story.

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


And that's supposed to mean.....what? Your brand of legalism is superior to that of other legalists who also fall daily upon their own sword of the letter that kills? That's an exercise in futility.

I don't believe Jesus was a Legalist, or that HIS Words are lies. Even though "many" who come in His Name do, as prophesied.

Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Your unbelief in His Word's do not make them void.

You do err in thinking that the Law of Moses laid upon the Jews of that covenant also applying to us who are under the New Covenant.

The new Covenant of the Christ of the Bible changed the Priesthood Law, not God's Statutes, Laws and Commandments. Two things changed, #1. How God's Laws are administered. #2. How sins are forgiven.

It's right there in your own Bible. The Christ, the Word of God which became Flesh, defines what HIS New covenant is quite clearly. All a man needs to do is believe it.

The Law of Moses has NOT been done away with, for the sake of those who would think that is what I'm saying.

The Levitical Priesthood, with it's "works of the Law" of atonement/forgiveness and duties of the Sanctuary, was most certainly done away with. Jesus forgave sins without even sprinkling one drop of turtle doves blood on the alter as per the "ADDED" Priesthood Law. And yet He Kept His Father's Commandments perfectly, including His Holy Sabbath. This is just Biblical Fact.

No. The difference is in what Paul, James, and Peter had to say on the matter that you have consistently rejected throughout these forums of the items I have read. You seem to not like it at all that we are free from the letter.

The Letter of the Law of Moses against drinking Blood and eating animals which were killed a certain way, fornication and idolatry was promoted by Paul, James and Peter. The Gentiles had already received the Spirit of Christ, and yet Peter was still leading them to the Law of Moses, Going directly to the Word's of the Law of Moses every Sabbath Day as this Same Christ instructed them to do..

They were not free from those "letters", they were just free from the letter of the Law that says they are dead because they transgressed God's Commandments.

Why did the lawgiver inspire Peter to promote these letters of the Law after God's Spirit was in them?

You choose to swing that knife around at others, as if we have any reason to fear it sticking us. No. It's a puny little sticker you're swinging about, a blade that no longer has the ability to harm anyone but yourself.

I know you detest it, and you have no respect or fear of it, as the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time had no fear of it, but it's called the "Sword of the Lord".

EPH. 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, (Belief that God is not a Liar) wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

"The Word of God" you preach to the world can not be trusted.

There is no use arguing with someone over the Holy Scriptures, that doesn't believe in the Holy Scriptures.

It becomes nothing more than vain babbling. There is too big a gap between your religious philosophy and what the scriptures actually say to continue.

But thanks for the posts, we have found them very useful in our studies.
 
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