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Studyman

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Might I remind you that the only ones that God gave the Sabbath to was Israel and it was part of the Sinai covenant which has been replaced by the new covenant. It is a mute point as to when and where the Sabbath would begin because it is not part of God's covenant to us. If God made the day for all mankind wouldn't he give us some sign that would indicate which day? Seems to me that all days are the variation of days past and no day stands out as special from the others.

There is no Biblical Proof to support your mainstream religious belief that the 10 Commandments, or any part of them, was replaced in a NEW Covenant. I know it is widely taught, but if a person actually goes to the Creator of the New Covenant, and believes what HE says will "change", it becomes crystal clear that it wasn't God's Definition of sin that changed, rather, 2 things. #1. The manner in which God's Laws are administered, and #2. The manner in which transgression of these Laws, AKA "SIN", is atoned for.

You can read it for yourself in Jer. 31. It was the exclusive Duty of the Levite to provide for the administration of God's Laws, and they were also charged with performing Sacrificial "works of the Law" for atonement of sins. The Christ said in Jer. 31 that "after those days" HE Himself would provide for these two things.

The Hebrews Author knew this and that is why he said it was the Levitical Priesthood that changed. As he details, Jesus was from Judah, not Levi, therefore He could not partake, by Law, of the Priesthood Covenant "ADDED" to God's Laws on Mt. Sinai. Therefore, as he says, it was necessary to change the Law regarding this Priesthood so as to allow someone of another Tribe that Moses made no mention of, to partake of God's Priesthood. Sadly, most will not even engage in a conversation about these biblical Truths, content with the man made religious belief that the New Covenant replace the Law and Prophets. A religious tradition that Jesus Himself dispels.

In addition, I would call to attention another religious belief widely taught regarding the Sabbath. You have stated that the Sabbath was only given to Israel. You base this doctrine on the Words "Thus shall thou say to the Children of Israel" teaching that these Laws are not for everyone.

There is a lot of Biblical Evidence that contradicts this teaching but I will only provide two.

Ex. 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [URL='https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Exodus-20-3/']3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.[/URL]

Paul said in 1 Cor. 10 that these words were written for "our" admonition, as examples for "US", Jew and Gentile, not just the Jews as your teaching implies. Paul also says we have all been held captive to unrighteousness by sin and deception, and there is only one God who can "bring us out of this land" of Sin. We are not to listen to any other "voice" that that of the God of the Bible.

This is one of many, many examples which expose the teaching that God's Laws were only given to a people of a certain DNA, as a false teaching.

The second example I will use is the clear double standard and hypocrisy in the doctrines which teaches God only gave His Sabbath to the Jews.

You claim the "New Covenant", whatever it is, was created for all men, while the Sabbath of God was only given to men of a certain DNA based on who God was speaking to when HE gave it.

Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So based on the exact same logic employed by those who preach that God's Sabbath was only for the Jews, then the New Covenant God made is also only for the Jews. And yet you claim when God wrote these Word's, HE was speaking to you, but when HE gave His Sabbath, HE was not speaking to you.

I could go on and on with example after example of God's Words in which HE implies "for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people" including specifically HIS Holy Sabbath.

So just to be clear, I am not telling anyone to do this or that. We will all stand before the God of the Bible. What I am doing is pointing out Doctrines and religious traditions of the Land that contradict what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures. My hope is to engage in a conversation about these worldly doctrines, as Jesus and His Disciples did regarding the religious doctrines and Traditions of the land they were born into.
 
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guevaraj

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Jesus lived under those laws and there is nothing to make claim that He left part of the Torah out when He said He came to fulfill the law and prophets and not one jot nor one tittle would pass from Torah until all was accomplished or fulfilled. If He didn't fulfill all the Torah then not one tittle of that law can be removed. If He did fulfill all He came to do then the ten commandments have been brought to an end just as Paul wrote in 2Cor 3:6-11. I believe Jesus would not have left this Earth without doing what He came to do, so indeed the ten commandments as the guide for Israel has been replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as the guide for all mankind.
Brother, the reason that "Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in", without accepting Jesus, is because Jesus did not fulfill all the prophesies about the Messiah. Specifically, "the rock" that hits the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, destroys all earlier empires and establishes a kingdom that will "never" end.

In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. (Daniel 2:44-45a NIV)​

And as I have previously written I do not see people rushing to keep the day that was given only to the Israelites.
The Holy Spirit is not going to help replace one wrong with another. The Israelite follow a tradition that we adopt about the Sabbath that is wrong and God will not help us replace a tradition on Sunday with one on Saturday. The truth is, neither Sunday nor Saturday worshipers are right about the Sabbath, and we need more study on when the "evening" falls on the first day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Cshuffle777

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You claim the "New Covenant", whatever it is, was created for all men, while the Sabbath of God was only given to men of a certain DNA based on who God was speaking to when HE gave it.

Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So based on the exact same logic employed by those who preach that God's Sabbath was only for the Jews, then the New Covenant God made is also only for the Jews. And yet you claim when God wrote these Word's, HE was speaking to you, but when HE gave His Sabbath, HE was not speaking to you.

Ouch. That's gotta sting somethin' fierce.
I'm not so much embarrassed that I didn't say it first, as I am that I didn't even see it!
 
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Cshuffle777

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Brother, the reason that "Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in", without accepting Jesus, is because Jesus did not fulfill all the prophesies about the Messiah. Specifically, "the rock" that hits the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, destroys all earlier empires and establishes a kingdom that will "never" end.

In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. (Daniel 2:44-45a NIV)
I think this bears quoting and, therefore, repeating.

Pardon my plagiarism.

Brother, the reason that "Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in", without accepting Jesus, is because Jesus did not fulfill all the prophesies about the Messiah. Specifically, "the rock" that hits the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, destroys all earlier empires and establishes a kingdom that will "never" end.

In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. (Daniel 2:44-45a NIV)​
 
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Studyman

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Ouch. That's gotta sting somethin' fierce.
I'm not so much embarrassed that I didn't say it first, as I am that I didn't even see it!

I didn't see it either for years, but there it is. I attribute my blindness to having religious doctrines I was born into so ingrained in my mind to the point where I didn't even think about questioning them.

I can imagine it was the same for Peter and Stephen. Can you even imagine how difficult it would have been for them to accept the truth of the Scriptures that Jesus taught, over what the Pharisees, the Mainstream Preachers of their time, had been teaching for centuries?

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

It stung them as well.

I'm glad you see it :)
 
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Bob S

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There is no Biblical Proof to support your mainstream religious belief that the 10 Commandments, or any part of them, was replaced in a NEW Covenant. I know it is widely taught, but if a person actually goes to the Creator of the New Covenant, and believes what HE says will "change", it becomes crystal clear that it wasn't God's Definition of sin that changed, rather, 2 things. #1. The manner in which God's Laws are administered, and #2. The manner in which transgression of these Laws, AKA "SIN", is atoned for.

You can read it for yourself in Jer. 31. It was the exclusive Duty of the Levite to provide for the administration of God's Laws, and they were also charged with performing Sacrificial "works of the Law" for atonement of sins. The Christ said in Jer. 31 that "after those days" HE Himself would provide for these two things.
Sorry Sm but never has any man been able to atone for sin. God has always atoned for the sins of mankind. The Levite's job was to administer animal sacrifices.

The Hebrews Author knew this and that is why he said it was the Levitical Priesthood that changed. As he details, Jesus was from Judah, not Levi, therefore He could not partake, by Law, of the Priesthood Covenant "ADDED" to God's Laws on Mt. Sinai. Therefore, as he says, it was necessary to change the Law regarding this Priesthood so as to allow someone of another Tribe that Moses made no mention of, to partake of God's Priesthood. Sadly, most will not even engage in a conversation about these biblical Truths, content with the man made religious belief that the New Covenant replace the Law and Prophets. A religious tradition that Jesus Himself dispels.
Jesus is God. God took over the priesthood and indeed changed covenants. Jer 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, The new covenant isn't like the old one. You can deny this fact and you will because of your preconceived beliefs. You must not believe Matt 5: 18 where Jesus said Himself that He came to fulfill the Law and the prophets. They remained until Jesus ratified the new covenant with His blood at Calvary

In addition, I would call to attention another religious belief widely taught regarding the Sabbath. You have stated that the Sabbath was only given to Israel. You base this doctrine on the Words "Thus shall thou say to the Children of Israel" teaching that these Laws are not for everyone.

There is a lot of Biblical Evidence that contradicts this teaching but I will only provide two.

Ex. 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Paul said in 1 Cor. 10 that these words were written for "our" admonition, as examples for "US", Jew and Gentile, not just the Jews as your teaching implies. Paul also says we have all been held captive to unrighteousness by sin and deception, and there is only one God who can "bring us out of this land" of Sin. We are not to listen to any other "voice" that that of the God of the Bible.
Do you not realize that any Gentile that fled Egypt had to become an Israelite by circumcision. If they didn't they could not be part of the religion. So, your premise "our" has no correlation to Ex 20 verse 1 and the "widely taught" truth still stands and it is you that is teaching another Gospel.

This is one of many, many examples which expose the teaching that God's Laws were only given to a people of a certain DNA, as a false teaching.
Bring it on.

The second example I will use is the clear double standard and hypocrisy in the doctrines which teaches God only gave His Sabbath to the Jews.

You claim the "New Covenant", whatever it is, was created for all men, while the Sabbath of God was only given to men of a certain DNA based on who God was speaking to when HE gave it.
You mean you don't know what the new covenant is? Yes, the Sabbath was given only to Israel regardless of their DNA.

Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So based on the exact same logic employed by those who preach that God's Sabbath was only for the Jews, then the New Covenant God made is also only for the Jews. And yet you claim when God wrote these Word's, HE was speaking to you, but when HE gave His Sabbath, HE was not speaking to you.
No, the new covenant was exclusively for the Israelites to replace the covenant the Israelites broke. I will write that once again so that you get it. The new covenant was exclusively for the Israelites to replace the covenant the Israelites broke. It was Jesus while on this Earth who, in His mercy to all mankind, made the covenant into a covenant for all. His admonition to the disciples was for them to go into all the World spreading the Good News to everyone. He made what was exclusive into something inclusive. Thank you Jesus. So, once again you are wrong.

I could go on and on with example after example of God's Words in which HE implies "for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people" including specifically HIS Holy Sabbath.
The proof is in the pudding and since you haven't gone on and on and I have disproved your theory so far I will patiently await your on and on.

So just to be clear, I am not telling anyone to do this or that. We will all stand before the God of the Bible. What I am doing is pointing out Doctrines and religious traditions of the Land that contradict what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures.
So far you are batting zero.

My hope is to engage in a conversation about these worldly doctrines, as Jesus and His Disciples did regarding the religious doctrines and Traditions of the land they were born into.
Engage all you want, it your freedom. At this point all I have seen is your opinion and no hard evidence. Bring it on brother.
 
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guevaraj

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No, the new covenant was exclusively for the Israelites to replace the covenant the Israelites broke. I will write that once again so that you get it. The new covenant was exclusively for the Israelites to replace the covenant the Israelites broke. It was Jesus while on this Earth who, in His mercy to all mankind, made the covenant into a covenant for all. His admonition to the disciples was for them to go into all the World spreading the Good News to everyone. He made what was exclusive into something inclusive. Thank you Jesus. So, once again you are wrong.
Brother, happy Sabbath! You contradict the Scriptures. We are "part" of Israel, the "part" that accepts Jesus. The other "part" of Israel remains hardened until the full number of the gentiles has "come in" to the "part" of Israel that accepts Jesus. God will save "all Israel" when He returns for the gentiles who have "come in" to Israel.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. (Romans 11:25-32 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Bob S

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Brother, happy Sabbath! You contradict the Scriptures. We are "part" of Israel, the "part" that accepts Jesus.
First of all Jorge I am not a Sabbath observer and so it is not happy Sabbath that you should greet me with out of respect of my belief. No where in all of scripture do I find that when I became a Christian I became an Israelite or that I was grafted int Israel. That scenario does not exist in scripture. The root of life is Jesus Christ and if I am to have life it is because He feeds me. I am not fed by Israel.

The other "part" of Israel remains hardened until the full number of the gentiles has "come in" to the "part" of Israel that accepts Jesus. God will save "all Israel" when He returns for the gentiles who have "come in" to Israel.
Scripture does not tell us that Gentiles will come in to Israel. That is your theory and is a contradiction of what Paul wrote. We are one in Christ. Paul tells us in plain words in Eph 2: 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.


 
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guevaraj

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First of all Jorge I am not a Sabbath observer and so it is not happy Sabbath that you should greet me with out of respect of my belief. No where in all of scripture do I find that when I became a Christian I became an Israelite or that I was grafted int Israel. That scenario does not exist in scripture. The root of life is Jesus Christ and if I am to have life it is because He feeds me. I am not fed by Israel.
Brother, I just showed you where "it is written". Romans 11:25 to 31 are not my words! I don't abuse Paul's "hard to understand" words to contradict the rest of the Scriptures as the Scriptures warn us that others do.
Scripture does not tell us that Gentiles will come in to Israel. That is your theory and is a contradiction of what Paul wrote. We are one in Christ. Paul tells us
Paul is talking about the differences between the part of Israel that is Christianity and the part of Israel that is Judaism, which Romans 11:25 to 31 reveals that they are both "part" of Israel. Paul is not contradicting Romans, that is your misuse of Paul that contradicts what is written in Romans.

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:14-16 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Studyman

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Sorry Sm but never has any man been able to atone for sin. God has always atoned for the sins of mankind.

Nevertheless, it is God Himself who is saying the manner in which God's Laws are administered, and the manner in which sins are forgiven will be different "After those days". He does not mention anything about abolishing His Sabbaths and Laws in the New Covenant. You do, the catholic priests do, but the God of the Bible never did.

I think this Biblical fact is relevant for the brethren, so I showed you. I said nothing that would indicate I believe a man can atone for his own sins. I'm not sure why you would suggest such a thing.

The Levite's job was to administer animal sacrifices.

Why were they to administer Animal Sacrifices? Was it for food? For sport? What was their stated purpose? Was it not specifically to provide for the atonement of sins? A "shadow" of the sacrifice even Abraham knew God would provide for us?

Answer me this please, before "After those days" was there any other way to have our sins forgiven besides taking an animal exclusively to a Levite Priest who would then perform "works of the Law" of atonement? Before "After those days" was there any other way to hear the true Word of God other than finding a Levite Priest who had, by Covenant, the exclusive possession of the "book of the law"?

These are relevant questions pertaining to your post. I humbly ask that you answer them. And "thank you" in advance.


Respectfully, you provided no Biblical evidence in support for your teaching that God's New Covenant took away His Commandments, or any part of them.


Jesus is God. God took over the priesthood and indeed changed covenants. Jer 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant,

Yes, Jesus, as the Word of God, is the Creator of the New Covenant. This is why I believe HIS definition of it. I think you are omitting the Covenant the Christ made with Levi. This Covenant dealt exclusively with the administration of God's Laws, and provided for the atonement of sins.

This same Christ said in Malachi:

Mal. 2:
7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Is this not the reason why the Christ took over the Priesthood?

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests who led God's People astray) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

A New Priesthood with better promises. Nothing whatsoever said about the abolition of the Law and Prophets, nor the Laws contained therein.


The new covenant isn't like the old one. You can deny this fact and you will because of your preconceived beliefs.

I am sorry you are angry, but there is really no need to make things up about me. You know I never implied that the New covenant is the same as the Old.



You must not believe Matt 5: 18 where Jesus said Himself that He came to fulfill the Law and the prophets. They remained until Jesus ratified the new covenant with His blood at Calvary

Matt. 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Why would you say I don't believe Jesus Word's here? Of us two, who is advocating for the rejection and abolition of one of the least of God's Commandments. And surely you don't believe that "ALL" that is Prophesied about the Christ has come to pass.



1 Cor. 10:
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

This was at least 14 years after Jesus ascended to His Throne. Paul is telling me the Law and Prophets have not yet passed, and they are still as relevant to us as they were to Malachi.

Mal. 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Maybe you should consider why religious men preach that the Law and Prophets and the Laws contained therein are not for them, but Paul is teaching that they were expressly written for us, "For our Sake's No Doubt"?

Do you not realize that any Gentile that fled Egypt had to become an Israelite by circumcision. If they didn't they could not be part of the religion. So, your premise "our" has no correlation to Ex 20 verse 1 and the "widely taught" truth still stands and it is you that is teaching another Gospel.

Do you realize that according to the Word of Jesus Himself, you cannot go to heaven unless you eat His Flesh? So can you then tell me where you found the Flesh of Jesus to eat.

You know you can't, because the Word's of Jesus are Spiritual? HE really doesn't intend for us to actually "eat His Flesh" in order to be saved?

Then how is it when this Same Christ tells men to cut flesh off their penis, religious men outright reject the concept that HIS Word's here have Spiritual meaning as well? Written for our admonition, not theirs.

Duet. 10: 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Can a person, Jew or Gentile, go to heaven without first having their hearts circumcised?

1 Cor. 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Doth God care for loose skin on a man's penis? Or sayeth He it altogether for our sake's. For our sake's NO DOUBT, it is written.

I hope you might consider Paul's words here.

You mean you don't know what the new covenant is?

I know what the Creator of the New Covenant says it is, what I question is a popular religious teaching of it which openly contradicts what the Christ Himself defines it as..

Yes, the Sabbath was given only to Israel regardless of their DNA.

I must respectfully defer to Paul's words, "for our sake's NO Doubt, it was written."

And the Christ's Word's given us through Isaiah.

Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

It doesn't appear that this is the Covenant that changed.

No, the new covenant was exclusively for the Israelites to replace the covenant the Israelites broke. I will write that once again so that you get it. The new covenant was exclusively for the Israelites to replace the covenant the Israelites broke. It was Jesus while on this Earth who, in His mercy to all mankind, made the covenant into a covenant for all. His admonition to the disciples was for them to go into all the World spreading the Good News to everyone. He made what was exclusive into something inclusive. Thank you Jesus. So, once again you are wrong.

I can only respond to what you say.

"Might I remind you that the only ones that God gave the Sabbath to was Israel and it was part of the Sinai covenant which has been replaced by the new covenant. It is a mute point as to when and where the Sabbath would begin because it is not part of God's covenant to us."

Jesus, as it is written, Fulfilled the Prophesies about His coming to earth as a man. There is no Prophesy regarding HIM that suggests HE eliminated His Own Sabbath.

I am open to any Scripture in the Law and Prophets which show such a Prophesy if you can find one.


The Gospel of the Christ of the Bible was also taught to those who God brought out of Egypt.

Rom. 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias (Isaiah) saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Is the Gospel of Christ Isaiah preached different than the Gospel of Christ Jesus Preached? I humbly suggest that the Good News of the Gospel Isaiah taught is the same Good News Jesus and His Disciples taught.

Heb. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The Same Gospel preached unto us, was also preached to Israel as well. It's just that we have the examples written for us so we can choose to not lust after the same things they lusted after.


The proof is in the pudding and since you haven't gone on and on and I have disproved your theory so far I will patiently await your on and on.

Engage all you want, it your freedom. At this point all I have seen is your opinion and no hard evidence. Bring it on brother.

The only evidence I have is God's Word. If a man doesn't believe in God's Word, then my evidence will not persuade them.

As Jesus Himself said.

Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It seems we are all born into religions of the land, and we all must choose between living by the religious doctrines and traditions of men, or as the Christ instructs, " by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God."

These discussion, though sometimes difficult, are good for the brethren to engage in, in my view.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Nevertheless, it is God Himself who is saying the manner in which God's Laws are administered, and the manner in which sins are forgiven will be different "After those days". He does not mention anything about abolishing His Sabbaths and Laws in the New Covenant. You do, the catholic priests do, but the God of the Bible never did.

I think this Biblical fact is relevant for the brethren, so I showed you. I said nothing that would indicate I believe a man can atone for his own sins. I'm not sure why you would suggest such a thing.



Why were they to administer Animal Sacrifices? Was it for food? For sport? What was their stated purpose? Was it not specifically to provide for the atonement of sins? A "shadow" of the sacrifice even Abraham knew God would provide for us?

Answer me this please, before "After those days" was there any other way to have our sins forgiven besides taking an animal exclusively to a Levite Priest who would then perform "works of the Law" of atonement? Before "After those days" was there any other way to hear the true Word of God other than finding a Levite Priest who had, by Covenant, the exclusive possession of the "book of the law"?

These are relevant questions pertaining to your post. I humbly ask that you answer them. And "thank you" in advance.


Respectfully, you provided no Biblical evidence in support for your teaching that God's New Covenant took away His Commandments, or any part of them.




Yes, Jesus, as the Word of God, is the Creator of the New Covenant. This is why I believe HIS definition of it. I think you are omitting the Covenant the Christ made with Levi. This Covenant dealt exclusively with the administration of God's Laws, and provided for the atonement of sins.

This same Christ said in Malachi:

Mal. 2:
7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Is this not the reason why the Christ took over the Priesthood?

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests who led God's People astray) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

A New Priesthood with better promises. Nothing whatsoever said about the abolition of the Law and Prophets, nor the Laws contained therein.




I am sorry you are angry, but there is really no need to make things up about me. You know I never implied that the New covenant is the same as the Old.





Matt. 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Why would you say I don't believe Jesus Word's here? Of us two, who is advocating for the rejection and abolition of one of the least of God's Commandments. And surely you don't believe that "ALL" that is Prophesied about the Christ has come to pass.



1 Cor. 10:
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

This was at least 14 years after Jesus ascended to His Throne. Paul is telling me the Law and Prophets have not yet passed, and they are still as relevant to us as they were to Malachi.

Mal. 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Maybe you should consider why religious men preach that the Law and Prophets and the Laws contained therein are not for them, but Paul is teaching that they were expressly written for us, "For our Sake's No Doubt"?



Do you realize that according to the Word of Jesus Himself, you cannot go to heaven unless you eat His Flesh? So can you then tell me where you found the Flesh of Jesus to eat.

You know you can't, because the Word's of Jesus are Spiritual? HE really doesn't intend for us to actually "eat His Flesh" in order to be saved?

Then how is it when this Same Christ tells men to cut flesh off their penis, religious men outright reject the concept that HIS Word's here have Spiritual meaning as well? Written for our admonition, not theirs.

Duet. 10: 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Can a person, Jew or Gentile, go to heaven without first having their hearts circumcised?

1 Cor. 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Doth God care for loose skin on a man's penis? Or sayeth He it altogether for our sake's. For our sake's NO DOUBT, it is written.

I hope you might consider Paul's words here.



I know what the Creator of the New Covenant says it is, what I question is a popular religious teaching of it which openly contradicts what the Christ Himself defines it as..



I must respectfully defer to Paul's words, "for our sake's NO Doubt, it was written."

And the Christ's Word's given us through Isaiah.

Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

It doesn't appear that this is the Covenant that changed.



I can only respond to what you say.

"Might I remind you that the only ones that God gave the Sabbath to was Israel and it was part of the Sinai covenant which has been replaced by the new covenant. It is a mute point as to when and where the Sabbath would begin because it is not part of God's covenant to us."

Jesus, as it is written, Fulfilled the Prophesies about His coming to earth as a man. There is no Prophesy regarding HIM that suggests HE eliminated His Own Sabbath.

I am open to any Scripture in the Law and Prophets which show such a Prophesy if you can find one.


The Gospel of the Christ of the Bible was also taught to those who God brought out of Egypt.

Rom. 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias (Isaiah) saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Is the Gospel of Christ Isaiah preached different than the Gospel of Christ Jesus Preached? I humbly suggest that the Good News of the Gospel Isaiah taught is the same Good News Jesus and His Disciples taught.

Heb. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The Same Gospel preached unto us, was also preached to Israel as well. It's just that we have the examples written for us so we can choose to not lust after the same things they lusted after.




The only evidence I have is God's Word. If a man doesn't believe in God's Word, then my evidence will not persuade them.

As Jesus Himself said.

Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It seems we are all born into religions of the land, and we all must choose between living by the religious doctrines and traditions of men, or as the Christ instructs, " by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God."

These discussion, though sometimes difficult, are good for the brethren to engage in, in my view.

Actually, nowhere in the New Testament will anyone find the statement "all of God's laws are abolished". Following your line of reasoning, therefore, everyone everywhere at all times is subjected not to ten, but to all 613 of God's commandments which constitute the Law.
 
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Studyman

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Actually, nowhere in the New Testament will anyone find the statement "all of God's laws are abolished". Following your line of reasoning, therefore, everyone everywhere at all times is subjected not to ten, but to all 613 of God's commandments which constitute the Law.

Well you just further one of the most insidious, Anti-Christ, dishonest, heretical lies ever to be perpetuated by the father of lies in my opinion. And one that is particularly distasteful to me personally because of how easy it is to go into the Holy Scriptures and expose it for the Lie that it is. And yet there are people on this very forum who hate God so much, who are so lazy, that they don't even question these false doctrines taught by some random website somewhere, certainly not God, whose entire religion is founded on this horrible, insidious LIE about the Christ, my Lord and Savior, who became a Man and gave His Life for me. So this particular false teaching is especially evil and wicked for me personally. And I don't mean to be harsh, and it is nothing personal towards you, but someone has got to shine light on these popular evil lies told across the religions of the land I was born into.

The religious fairy tail starts when Abraham's Children cried out on Egypt, I'll paraphrase.

Ex. 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. 25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

So think about the "613" Law Doctrine you are promoting here.. You are implying in your statement that how God showed Abraham's Children respect, was to convince them of His Power and Love towards them, and show them they could trust Him with their lives. And when they did finally trust Him enough to take the Blood of the unblemished Lamb and follow HIS instructions regarding it, Egypt let them go, just as God said they would.

Then HE led them across the desert to the Red Sea, and when it again looked hopeless for them, Moses pleaded with them and said Trust God again, "Stand still and See the Salvation of the Lord". So Abraham's Children trusted God once again and God parted the Red Sea which drowned those who would harm them.

And so to reward Abraham's Children for their trust and Faith in Him, according to the implication of your own statement, God placed 613 laws on the backs of every man woman and child He just saved from the bondage of Egypt. And when they broke even one of these mythical 613 Laws, that modern religious men preach to the world were impossible to obey, God slaughtered them by the thousands, in fulfillment of the Covenant HE made with Abraham, who was, according to Scriptures, God's Friend.

And so when a maggot turd like me simply points out what the Creator of HIS New Covenant clearly defines what HIS New Covenant is, which is contrary to the teaching of popular religions of the land, you can't believe it. Because you have been convinced of a Lie about this God, convinced He lied to Abraham and to Abraham's Children, and rewarded their faith and trust in Him by placing 613 burdensome laws on their necks..

Surely you must believe men need to have instruction, guidance, laws to keep their free will in check. What parent doesn't instill laws in the minds of their children?

But you have been convinced, according to your own statement, that God is not a Good Parent. That HE saved Abraham's Children, only to place 613 Laws on their back, Laws they couldn't bear.

Don't fall for this 613 law Hogwash bbbbbbb, it's a trap, leaven designed to corrupt your mind, as Eve's mind was corrupted. Trust the God of the Bible, HE isn't a liar.

Regarding the "613" laws that modern religions claim the God of the OT placed on the necks of the Children He Loved, Let me ask you some simple questions.

It is written Lev. 18:6 "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD."

Now This same God goes on the define "Near of Kin".

7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. 9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover. 10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness. 11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman. 13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman. 14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness. 17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness. 18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.

So using just balances, being honest in the presence of God, how many Laws are there given here? 1 or 20? That's Right, there is really only one Law and 11 verses defining it.
But the father of lies count them as 20 in the website you are quoting from.

This would be like me telling you the speed limit is 55, then going on to tell you it's 55 for a Ford, for a Chevy, for a Toyota, for a Honda, for motorcycles, trucks, 4 wheeler's, and then having you make the claim that I just placed 8 laws on your back. It's a lie bbbbbbb, don't fall for it.

This is done several times by those fraudsters, not to mention the Laws specifically given to the Levite that Israel was not to even touch. These are also counted as laws into the 613 law myth. There are instructions specifically for women that are not for men, just as a good parent has different rules for girls than for boys.

But for the purpose of promoting an insidious lie about the Character of the Christ, the creator of the Law, they are all counted as 613 laws God placed on the necks of those HE just saved from Egypt.

Why, to push the ancient deception of the devil, recorded for our admonition in Gen. 3, which is that God lied to you, and can not be trusted, HIS Laws are a Yoke of Bondage that makes you blind. And only by rejecting them can a person truly be free from the blindness God Commandments cause.

Gen. 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (God is a Liar)

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Transgress the Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Don't fall for this insidious lie about the Christ bbbbbbb. Don't let these doctrines of devils blind you from believing what God Himself defines HIS New Covenant as. God is not a liar, HE didn't give 613 burdensome Laws to His People that they couldn't obey, then lie to them by telling them they could. He didn't send prophets to lie to them by telling them to obey God knowing it was impossible to do so.

Don't place yourself in the position of having to explain to the Christ Jesus, on your knees, how you furthered the Deception of the Serpent, even after a brother pointed it out to you.
 
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Bob S

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Actually, nowhere in the New Testament will anyone find the statement "all of God's laws are abolished". Following your line of reasoning, therefore, everyone everywhere at all times is subjected not to ten, but to all 613 of God's commandments which constitute the Law.
Amen b....., either Jesus brought an end to the laws of the Sinai covenant or not on jot or one tittle of those laws have been done away. Sabbath observers cannot have it both ways.

Choose this day who you will serve, Moses and the old covenant or Jesus and the new covenant with better promises and unlike the old one.

Fact: there was not one law in the Sinai covenant that could save an Israelite. David could praise the law continuously and it could not save him. The Sinai covenant was not a salvational covenant and furthermore it was an IF covenant. If FULLY kept Israel would become God's treasured possession, a kingdom of priests and a Holy nation. Israel failed to live up to the standards of the covenant therefore the covenant came to an end. God has not given up on the Israelites, He has given them the new and everlasting covenant and has included all mankind. We who love and serve Him are His treasured possession. How do Christians serve Him? He tell us by how we treat the least of those among us. He doesn't tell us it is how well we observe ritual laws like the observance of certain days.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Amen b....., either Jesus brought an end to the laws of the Sinai covenant or not on jot or one tittle of those laws have been done away. Sabbath observers cannot have it both ways.

Choose this day who you will serve, Moses and the old covenant or Jesus and the new covenant with better promises and unlike the old one.

Fact: there was not one law in the Sinai covenant that could save an Israelite. David could praise the law continuously and it could not save him. The Sinai covenant was not a salvational covenant and furthermore it was an IF covenant. If FULLY kept Israel would become God's treasured possession, a kingdom of priests and a Holy nation. Israel failed to live up to the standards of the covenant therefore the covenant came to an end. God has not given up on the Israelites, He has given them the new and everlasting covenant and has included all mankind. We who love and serve Him our His treasured possession. How do Christians serve Him? He tell us by how we treat the least of those among us. He doesn't tell us it is how well we observe ritual laws like the observance of certain days.

Thank you for your excellent post!
 
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SwordmanJr

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The ONE prime distinction that seems to go unnoticed by some in all this discussion is the idea of "the passing away of the Law," accusation, and just how false that is.

To say that the letter of the Law of Moses and the letter of the Ten Commandments do not apply to those who are in Christ Jesus, and in whom dwells the very Law Giver who Himself writes His Law upon our hearts, it is only a problem to the legalists who see that as our allegedly claiming that the Law has passed away.

Those who have freely chosen to place themselves under the LETTER of the Law, compared to those of us who are not under the letter of the Law, they seem to take some manic glee fabricating and using the battering ram lie that this distinction leads to a doing away with the letter of the Law.

Now, some legalist out there is bound to claim that non-application is akin to "doing away with." Again, stop! Get over yourselves! All your stuffy nonsense is wasted effort. Trying to force upon others your own conclusions that are nothing more than legalistic bias, built upon nothing more than the foundations of your own enslavement to your dogmas, that only blinds those people to the Spirit of the Law, who is the Law Giver within us.

Those who choose to live by the letter, go for it. You will reap the rewards of that path for yourselves.

The more spiritual among us choose to point to the relationship the entirety of scripture portrays for true followers of Christ Jesus. The stoic pragmatism of there being life in and under the LETTER only live in total rejection of the correction and rebuke of scripture. Whoever you are, get over it, and start living by the Spirit, for it is by that Spirit alone that you will find obedience to the Law Giver a greater reality in this life, in this fallen world.

The Law written upon our hearts are of far greater power unto obedience than the mere letter of the Law, because they are spirit, not mere words. That which is written upon our hearts have life, where the letter does not.

Stick to death all you want, but as for me and my house, we will follow the Spirit.

Jr
 
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guevaraj

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Amen b....., either Jesus brought an end to the laws of the Sinai covenant or not on jot or one tittle of those laws have been done away. Sabbath observers cannot have it both ways.
Brother, that is what Studyman is helping us understand, there are ten commandments and definitions of those commandments in the context of the nation of Israel. In our context of a people living outside the nation of Israel, what remains are the ten commandments and the definition of those commandments, as what Paul mentions below.

As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. (Acts 21:25 NIV)​

One of the difficulties in understanding Paul is that he calls “Gentile believers” those who have “come in” to the part of Israel that accepted Jesus. Using two words for those who are not careful to keep them together, it may seem that they are still Gentile when that is not what Paul says. That they are no longer Gentiles, but part of Israel is clearer in Romans 11:25 to 32.
Choose this day who you will serve, Moses and the old covenant or Jesus and the new covenant with better promises and unlike the old one.
Those better promises are due to a new priesthood that changes the shadow system of animal sacrifices to its reality in Jesus. We better understand our relationship with Jesus by studying Jesus' shadow that pointed to Jesus with animal sacrifices.
Fact: there was not one law in the Sinai covenant that could save an Israelite. David could praise the law continuously and it could not save him. The Sinai covenant was not a salvational covenant and furthermore it was an IF covenant. If FULLY kept Israel would become God's treasured possession, a kingdom of priests and a Holy nation. Israel failed to live up to the standards of the covenant therefore the covenant came to an end. God has not given up on the Israelites, He has given them the new and everlasting covenant and has included all mankind. We who love and serve Him our His treasured possession.
What saves has always been based on obedience. Obedience that shows faith, even as we grow in obedience by searching the Scriptures for the truth in the word of God.
How do Christians serve Him? He tell us by how we treat the least of those among us. He doesn't tell us it is how well we observe ritual laws like the observance of certain days.
You are teaching the more difficult path of the unbeliever, like the good Samaritan. It is more difficult to dedicate yourself to the least of us as Mother Teresa than to obey the first 4 of 10 commandments that show love for God with its equal in the sight of God.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. (Matthew 11:28-30 NIV)​

The way you treat the least among us saves you even if you don't know God, but this is a more difficult path.

The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.' (Matthew 25:40 NIV)​

It's not the earlier statement that hits the hardest, it’s the flip side of the coin below. Actually, saved this way is only a good person like the good Samaritan, who was not of the house of God.

He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ (Matthew 25:45 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Amen b....., either Jesus brought an end to the laws of the Sinai covenant or not on jot or one tittle of those laws have been done away. Sabbath observers cannot have it both ways.
But Sabbath observers didn't make it up; Jesus said it. I just prefer not to throw that which is good out along with that which is obsolete.
Choose this day who you will serve, Moses and the old covenant or Jesus and the new covenant with better promises and unlike the old one.
That's a pretty gross misuse of Scripture, Brother Bob.
Fact: there was not one law in the Sinai covenant that could save an Israelite. David could praise the law continuously and it could not save him. The Sinai covenant was not a salvational covenant and furthermore it was an IF covenant. If FULLY kept Israel would become God's treasured possession, a kingdom of priests and a Holy nation. Israel failed to live up to the standards of the covenant therefore the covenant came to an end. God has not given up on the Israelites, He has given them the new and everlasting covenant and has included all mankind. We who love and serve Him our His treasured possession.
Amen and Amen, my friend!!!
 
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Bob S

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The ONE prime distinction that seems to go unnoticed by some in all this discussion is the idea of "the passing away of the Law," accusation, and just how false that is.

To say that the letter of the Law of Moses and the letter of the Ten Commandments do not apply to those who are in Christ Jesus, and in whom dwells the very Law Giver who Himself writes His Law upon our hearts, it is only a problem to the legalists who see that as our allegedly claiming that the Law has passed away.

Those who have freely chosen to place themselves under the LETTER of the Law, compared to those of us who are not under the letter of the Law, they seem to take some manic glee fabricating and using the battering ram lie that this distinction leads to a doing away with the letter of the Law.

Now, some legalist out there is bound to claim that non-application is akin to "doing away with." Again, stop! Get over yourselves! All your stuffy nonsense is wasted effort. Trying to force upon others your own conclusions that are nothing more than legalistic bias, built upon nothing more than the foundations of your own enslavement to your dogmas, that only blinds those people to the Spirit of the Law, who is the Law Giver within us.

Those who choose to live by the letter, go for it. You will reap the rewards of that path for yourselves.

The more spiritual among us choose to point to the relationship the entirety of scripture portrays for true followers of Christ Jesus. The stoic pragmatism of there being life in and under the LETTER only live in total rejection of the correction and rebuke of scripture. Whoever you are, get over it, and start living by the Spirit, for it is by that Spirit alone that you will find obedience to the Law Giver a greater reality in this life, in this fallen world.

The Law written upon our hearts are of far greater power unto obedience than the mere letter of the Law, because they are spirit, not mere words. That which is written upon our hearts have life, where the letter does not.

Stick to death all you want, but as for me and my house, we will follow the Spirit.

Jr
Wow! Lots of blow there, but no facts. "force upon others" that is pure nonsense. No one is forcing you to do anything. Instead of just blowing off steam why not address the issues. Why not explain why Paul wrote in 2Cor 3:6-11 KJV that the ten commandments have been done away and our guide is the Holy Spirit. Explain why, if the Sabbath commandment is supposedly written on our hearts, people are not flocking to observe it. Tell us why Paul wrote in Eph 2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. And tell us why in Col 2 why people are not to judge us for eating and drinking, not keeping festivals, new moons and weekly Sabbaths?
 
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Cshuffle777

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"the passing away of the Law," accusation,
is not nearly as false as:
Trying to force upon others your own conclusions
Why do non-atheists use this phrase?

Because the church becomes more like the world every day.

The myth of the Holy Spirit being involved in a hocus-pocus act on believers is going to reap a devastating weight of rewards.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)
No conclusions necessary.
 
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Cshuffle777

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Actually, nowhere in the New Testament will anyone find the statement "all of God's laws are abolished". Following your line of reasoning, therefore, everyone everywhere at all times is subjected not to ten, but to all 613 of God's commandments which constitute the Law.
Probably no one has ever been convinced by that tired, old straw man argument. And there are no 613 of God's commandments mentioned by number in the Bible, any more than there is a universally agreed-upon Christian Theology. Many Jewish scholars don't even include the last 8 of the ten commandments in the "613" number, and the number didn't even gain any traction until the middle ages.

613 commandments - Dissent and difficulties
Works in which the number of commandments is not 613
 
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