Saved by faith alone

Bible Highlighter · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
What church do you go to?

The church are a people, and not a building or organization. I fellowship with a few believers at work.

Swag365 · Jul 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
The church are a people, and not a building. I fellowship with a few believers at work.

So your church is you and 3 friends at work?

That itself is a new tradition. It is not what the early church looked like.

Have a nice day.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
So your church is you and 3 friends at work?

That itself is a new tradition. It is not what the early church looked like.

Have a nice day.

We are living in the last days. As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man. Jesus said narrow is the way and FEW be there that find it. So the majority view on Soteriology we see in the big building type churches is not the narrow way that Jesus was referring to.

Swag365 · Jul 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
We are living in the last days. As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man. Jesus said narrow is the way and FEW be there that find it. So the majority view on Soteriology we see in the big building type churches is not the narrow way that Jesus was referring to.

OK pal. If that floats your boat.

The church that we find in the New Testament had bishops, elders, and deacons. Who is your bishop, Larry from accounting?

GenemZ · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
So your church is you and 3 friends at work?

That itself is a new tradition. It is not what the early church looked like.

Have a nice day.

As long as one of them has the gift of pastor teacher God sees it as fine. That is, if the pastor is truly seeking and growing in grace. They will grow with him as he grows. Not too many well trained wise pastors are to be found today.... That is the real problem.

A good pastor will not tell you what to think. Instead, he will feed his flock with knowledge that they need to know. To know to be able to do their own thinking with the Spirit in them.

No bowing to statues and praying to saints, for real knowledge is what we need. Teachings of sound doctrine for believers who are really spiritually alive and functional. No dead works for those dead to the Spirit. Dead works so they can feel they fulfilled some religious obligation to appease their conscious.

GenemZ · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
OK pal. If that floats your boat.

The church that we find in the New Testament had bishops, elders, and deacons. Who is your bishop, Larry from accounting?

Trouble there? Where do you find solid teaching of the Word of God? Its organized religion only you boast about. . Dead works and rituals. That is not what Jesus came to earth to give us.

GenemZ · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
OK pal. If that floats your boat.

The church that we find in the New Testament had bishops, elders, and deacons. Who is your bishop, Larry from accounting?

You can also find that in the Mormon church. Means nothing. It only impresses the ignorant and superstitious. That is, unless there is ongoing teaching that is alive and growing in depth and understanding. Won't find that were you speak of. Instead, its all about dead works established in a religious organization to satisfy emotionally motivated religious people.

in a nutshell... there you have it. I don't think you can understand it. I had to come out of my religion before I could.

Swag365 · Jul 30, 2020

genez said:
As long as one of them has the gift of pastor teacher God sees it as fine. That is, if the pastor is truly seeking and growing in grace. They will grow with him as he grows. Not too many well trained, wise pastors are to be found today.... That is the real problem.

A good pastor will not tell you what to think. Instead, he will feed his flock with knowledge that they need to know. To know to be able to do their own thinking with.

No bowing to statues and praying to saints. Real knowledge is what we need. For believers who are really spiritually alive and functional. No dead works for those dead to the Spirit. Dead works so they can feel they fulfilled some religious obligation to appease their conscious.

We need you to educate us, O' wise one.

Swag365 · Jul 30, 2020

genez said:
Where do you find solid teaching of the Word of God?

Well I can tell you where you do not find it: R.B. Theime.

Swag365 · Jul 30, 2020

genez said:
You can also find that in the Mormon church. Means nothing. It only impresses the ignorant and superstitious. That is, unless there is ongoing teaching that is alive and growing in depth and understanding. Won't find that were you speak of. Instead, its all about dead works established in a religious organization to satisfy emotionally motivated religious people.

in a nutshell... there you have it. I don't think you can understand it. I had to come out of my religion before I could.

And now you follow R.B. Theime and his series of cassette tapes. I wouldn't exactly call that an improvement.

I'll tell you what - why don't you join @Bible Highlighter 's work church of 3 men, and when the 4 of you agree on doctrine, then come and talk to me about the perils of organized religion? The two of ya'll both say what you are doing is fine, but you cannot even come to agreement on the topic of this thread! The only thing that the two of you can agree upon is that you don't like organized religion!

GenemZ · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
We need you to educate us, O' wise one.

Not really... If the Holy Spirit could get you by the gruff of your neck, you would be led to someone who would be your right pastor. I am only teaching right principle.

GenemZ · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
Well I can tell you where you do not find it: R.B. Theime.

That is only one place. There are others God has raised up.

What I like about him is that the ministry will ship to any where in the world.. free of charge. But, he is not for everyone as their right pastor. He can be supplemental for some until they can find what God has in store for them.

GenemZ · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
And now you follow R.B. Theime and his series of cassette tapes. I wouldn't exactly call that an improvement.

I'll tell you what - why don't you join @Bible Highlighter 's work church of 3 men, and when the 4 of you agree on doctrine, then come and talk to me about the perils of organized religion? The two of ya'll both say what you are doing is fine, but you cannot even come to agreement on the topic of this thread! The only thing that the two of you can agree upon is that you don't like organized religion!

Sounds like you are reading some old blogs online. Cassettes went out in the 90's. All messages are now on discs using MP3 format.

You have so much freedom to criticize because you have no desire to end your ignorance. That ignorance gives you the freedom to speak about what you imagine something to be. Imagine as if it were fact. Now if you had personally given the Colonel a decent listen, and kept an open mind? Then I would be more likely to accept your criticism. Not what now comes from solely your closed minded imagination.

Recommendation? Listen to his 1st Corinthians series, and come back and have something to say. Until then? To me, you are like someone telling Christopher Columbus that the world is flat.

Swag365 · Jul 30, 2020

genez said:
Sounds like you are reading some old blogs online. Cassettes went out in the 90's. All messages are now on discs using MP3 format.

You have so much freedom to criticize because you have no desire to end your ignorance. That ignorance gives you the freedom to speak about what you imagine something to be. Imagine as if it were fact. Now if you had personally given the Colonel a decent listen, and kept an open mind? Then I would be more likely to accept your criticism. Not what now comes from solely your closed minded imagination.

Recommendation? Listen to his 1st Corinthians series, and come back and have something to say. Until then? To me, you are like someone telling Christopher Columbus that the world is flat.

As soon as you read the Catechism, Trent, and Vatican II, cover to cover. Peace!

GenemZ · Jul 30, 2020

Swag365 said:
As soon as you read the Catechism, Trent, and Vatican II, cover to cover. Peace!

.

Which catechism?

Those are only official summaries. What a good pastor teaches includes all the in depth reasons for his summaries. Vast difference. With summaries one you can only agree to obey without understanding. "Because, they say so."

Wisdom is supreme; so acquire wisdom.
And whatever you may acquire,
gain understanding." Prov 4:7

Getting understanding lays at the heart of a genuine and real spiritual life. For, knowledge and understanding is what God blesses with inner joy.

You gain no understanding by simply accepting to agree with someone's conclusion without having all the reasons for the conclusion. Dogma drones. Summaries require no thinking and understanding. Only obedience. Obedience is needed by those who want to be told not to think for themselves, never able to come to know what they are doing.

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."
1 Thes 5:21

That is impossible to do when all you have to work with is a list of conclusions. I used to try to find the rationales for the Nicene Creed and never found them. We are only given conclusions. It was designed for non thinkers who needed to be under their authority.

Learning only conclusions of others only gives you a TV dinner that you pop in the oven. Real gaining of knowledge and understanding teaches us how to cook a meal for yourself. A meal with superior ingredients. One way takes no understanding. The other requires developing a thinking skill that will be beneficial in life. One that overflows into other benefits.

zoidar · Jul 31, 2020

Swag365 said:
We need you to educate us, O' wise one.

Remember we are to love our brorhers and sisters. God bless!

1 Cor 3
For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

Danthemailman · Jul 31, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I have grown in the Lord since then and changed my views on certain things in regards to the things of God. So this would not be true.

You have not changed your views on "type 2 works salvation" and you continue to peddle the same views that I heard you peddle on Christian Chat, so I see no change. If I remember correctly, you did not leave Christian Chat voluntarily.

Keeping those commands that are attached with warnings of hellfire and condemnation is meeting the bare minimum level requirement of living holy. God is not going to condemn a person for a sin that is not specifically attached without warnings within His Word. The Bible teaches a degree of sins. Jesus said there is a greater sin.

Type 2 works salvation. Keeping those commands are not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. Believers keep His commands BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to become or remain saved. Condemned for greater sins (mortal sins) and just not minor sins (venial sins). You should have been a Roman Catholic.

Can't you see that your belief is a justification of sin and can lead even children to justify sin whereby they can turn out to be the next George Sodini by your own words?

This straw man argument has reached the point of slander and it's getting really old.

Even if you believed that a believer or saint is to live holy (See the following note), if you tell a child that their future sin is forgiven them, and you never see them again, then they can potentially be like a George Sodini and kill a bunch of people and take their own life (thinking they are saved).

Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. You are all about "type 2 performance based works salvation" and have some major self righteous issues.

For even you believe King David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder. So if so, then this child will think they can do the same. So your label is just attacking what the Bible teaches (and you don't even know it). That is what is sad here.

David did not die in his sins of adultery and murder, but was saved. Your "holier than thou" self righteous attitude coupled with your straw man arguments and slander is what is sad here.

Note: As for the Belief Alone Proponent's version of holy living: I am not sure what this looks like, I have no idea because many in the Belief Alone Only camp have been pushing how we don't lose salvation via by sin and that their future sin is forgiven them (Meaning, they can sin and still be saved on some level).

Are you back to sinless perfection again?

Okay. You don't know what I just said to you before about Sinless Perfection. Go back and please read my post again. I am not going to waste my time in repeating myself if you don't listen to what I have stated.

I have already read enough of your sugar coated double talk.

I believe there are sins not unto death that extend beyond what 1 John 5:16-17 talks about. 1 John 5:16-17 is referring in context to a believer struggling to overcome a sin while they confess of their sin. The brethren are praying for this believer to have victory or life (success) in overcoming the sin that they struggle with as they confess it. This is the kind of sin that does not lead to death. An example of a sin that does not lead to death outside of 1 John 5 is Paul not being condemned for disobeying the Spirit's warnings in going back to Jerusalem. Paul was not condemned because his motivation was love. He wanted to see his fellow Jews saved.

That is your Roman Catholic take on 1 John 5:16-17, but as I already explained to you. Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context - 1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

And those who think they can sin and still be saved on some level think as you do on Hebrews 12:14.

So back to sinless perfection.

Again, stop attacking the Bible for what it teaches.

Read the verse!

Back at you!

First, it says ALSO to follow after peace with all men without which no man shall see the Lord, in addition to follow after holiness.

Descriptive of believers.

Second, look at the context!

14 “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
(Hebrews 12:14).

You twist this verse to teach that man merits eternal life based on the merits of practical, holy living/performance/works. Again, the NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12:14). To be "sanctified" is to be "set apart, made holy." Without justification, there is no sanctification. Those who have been justified by faith are also sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Looking at the context, I see that you twist verse 15 to mean that men were saved by grace ultimately fail the grace of God and lose their salvation. Your pet translation (KJV) helps make it sound that way, yet other translations make it more clear. The NKJV reads - "..fall short of the grace of God." The NIV reads - "falls short of the grace of God." The NASB reads - "..comes short of the grace of God." The ESV reads - "..fails to obtain the grace of God."

It's best you just believe in the false belief of Mid Acts Dispensationalism and ignore these verses being applicable to the life of the Gentile believer. At least they are honest in what these verses say.

You might as well be a Roman Catholic and I find no honesty in your sugar coated double talk.

Your view of Justification is not biblical. It's a theologian's dream. Nowhere does the Bible say we can abide in sin and still be saved or that we don't lose salvation via by our sin.

This is more slander. Your deceptiveness is well noted.

Believers can confess of their sin to be forgiven of their sin, as long as they confess with the intention of overcoming it, and they ask for help from the Lord in overcoming. Believers need to eventually have the victory over their sin. When that takes place is different for every believer. The 144,000 were found without fault before the throne of God. So obviously they were fast learners.

Back to sinless perfection. Your theology is a self righteous nightmare.

Try also reading John 15:9-10.

Descriptive of believers.

Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality (or lasciviousness).

Jude further describes such people and they are not genuine believers.

Peter says in 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14 that there are false teachers who have eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin. So obviously the characteristic of not ceasing from sin is a marker or indication of false teachers according to Peter, and not me.

Back to sinless perfection again? These are false prophets and false teachers. So you believe that "cease from sin" here means sinless perfection? Just man up and admit that you teach sinless perfection. Be honest!

Note: I believe Peter is referring to those sins that lead unto spiritual death, and not those sins that do not lead unto spiritual death. Minor transgressions or faults of character are not sins that lead unto spiritual death.

So you interpret Peter to be saying cannot cease from (major transgression) and not minor transgressions? So God overlooks minor sins? Is that what you are saying?

You ignore verse 21 that commands you to KEEP YOURSELVES IN THE LOVE OF GOD.
Jesus says to CONTINUE IN MY LOVE.

Exhortations that are descriptive of those who are born of God. 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. Was Peter continuing in the love of God while he was denying Christ 3 times? Did Peter ultimately continue in the love of God? Yes.

Again, these are commands and they are not automatic and forced upon you.

These commands are not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. You turn commands into legalism.

If we obey God, then God is able to keep us from falling. Do you fall? Jude is talking in context to sin.

Is that what Jude said in verse 24? Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy. You think this is all about YOU. Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. How long is forever? Does God only preserve those who preserve themselves?

BTW: Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

18 “How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.”
(Jude 1:18-19).

*Take note of "having not the Spirit" in verse 19. *Not genuine believers.

When you read John 3:15-16, you have to read John 3:20 in that all who so evil hate the light and neither come to the light unless their evil deeds are reproved.

Leave it to you to turn "believing in Him" into works salvation. John 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. DESCRIPTIVE of unbelievers. In CONTRAST with verse 21, which is DESCRIPTIVE of believers. Evil is reflected in fleeing from the light and evil deeds are done in darkness, while those who practice the truth come to the Light and good deeds are wrought in God.

When you read John 6:40, and John 6:47, you have to also read John 6:53 that says that we must eat of the flesh (meat) of the Son or there is no life in us (Which is this: “My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” - John 4:34).

You are twisting the scriptures here in an effort to "add" works to John 6:40. In John 4:34, Jesus said "MY" food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work, in response to the disciples who were talking about eating literal food.

In John 6:39-40, Jesus said - This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Jesus is speaking of the reception of God’s grace by believing in Christ, as He makes abundantly clear below:

John 6:40 - Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 - Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 6:58 - He who eats this bread will live forever.

"He who believes" in Christ is equivalent to "he who eats this bread and drinks My blood" because the result is the same, eternal life. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says in John 6:63 - "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.
The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.

When you read John 11:25-26, you have to believe not only in the person of Jesus, but all his words, too.

If you believe in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation, then you will also believe that all of His words are true. Your believe "all of His words are true" statement is a scheme to teach salvation by works.

John 12:48 says, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Those who don't believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..) have rejected Him and His words.

In other words, if a person does not receive the words of Jesus, those very words of Jesus will judge them on the last day. What words can judge them? Not accepting Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, etc.

I accept those words of Jesus, just not your misinterpretation of those words that results in works salvation.

When I speak with Belief Alone Proponents, they have a hard time accepting these words by Jesus. But Jesus says if we do not receive His words, they will judge us on the last day.

Genuine believers do not have a hard time accepting these words by Jesus. Just your misinterpretation of those words.

Paul is talking about initial salvation through the gospel.

"Initial" salvation? Where does the Bible say "initial" salvation? More type 2 works salvation.

He is not preaching how we can sin and still be saved on some level because we have a belief on Jesus. Paul condemns the sins of the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 3, and 1 Corinthians 5, etc.

More sinless perfection. In 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, Paul is addressing brethren who are acting carnal, like mere men and calls them out on their envy, strife, and divisions, yet he still refers to them as babes in Christ. Yet you refer to them as condemned. They need to grow up and mature.

Is the church you see described in the Bible the same one you see in the Bible?
As for your assertion that cults and false religions deny faith alone: Well, Jesus said NARROW is the way. Most evangelical Sola Scriptura churches believe in Faith Alone (Which is a belief that contradicts Scripture).

Sola Scripture and salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone is Biblical and is the narrow way. Salvation by works leads down the broad way, which is what the majority of world religions (including false religions and cults that claim to be Christian) teach.

But Jesus was not talking to Buddha people, or other folks of strange religions. Jesus said to his own people (the Jews) that narrow is the way.

And what did the majority of the Jews teach? Works salvation! Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Danthemailman · Jul 31, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Actuallly Christ is exalted if I preach what His Word teaches like Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37 (of which you ignore or change to fit your belief).

Twisting those scriptures in order to teach salvation by works is not exalting Christ, but is exalting SELF, which you do so well.

Danthemailman · Jul 31, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Not true.

1 John 2:3 is descriptive of a genuine saved believer.
1 John 2:4 is descriptive of a false professing believer.

That's what I said. 1 John 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. (descriptive of a genuine saved believer) 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (descriptive of a false professing believer)

Right, so if what you say is true, then Jesus must have been teaching legalism in John 14:15, John 15:9-10, Matthew 19:17, and Luke 10:25-28. If that is not what you believe Jesus was teaching, then why did Jesus say that to enter into life, keep the commandments?

Jesus was not teaching legalism at all. The rich young ruler confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation. The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). The rich young ruler went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

I have often heard works-salvationists over the years cite Matthew 19:17 and teach that eternal life is obtained based on the merits of keeping (which they define as perfectly obeying) the 10 commandments. Is that where you stand with this verse?

Many in Eternal Security believe that one can commit suicide and still be saved.
You don't believe that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved?

In the first place, why would a genuine believer commit suicide? In the second place, if a believer was placed in a horrific situation in which he was going to be tortured to death and out of excruciating pain kills himself, who am I to judge in such a situation. Is suicide in this case too big of a sin for God to forgive? Is it worse than all the others sins that are washed away by the blood of Christ?

I believe David lost his salvation when he was committing his sins of adultery and murder.

Of course you do.

Now show me the words, "lost salvation" in the Bible. I find it interesting that ALL false religions and cults (which claim to be Christian) that teach salvation by works also strongly oppose OSAS, which has already been a major red flag for me.

No. It's the view of the Bible.

No. It's your legalistic view.

1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is in context to salvation based on the fact that 1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light.... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

To be cleansed of all sin is dealing with salvation.

Again, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

John is not talking about confessing each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed." Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. *IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness" and "hates his brother" is connected to "children of the devil."

Hello?

Proverbs 28:13 also says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

Hello? Are we back to sinless perfection again? Do you interpret forsake as sinless perfection? Oh wait, only worry about the big sins and not the little sins, right?

We see in Luke 15:17-21, the prodigal son was seeking forgiveness with his father and openly before all of Heaven his sins. His father said he was dead, and he is alive again. The parable is speaking in spiritual terms.

CONTEXT. All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) Eternal IN-securists will try to use the parable of the prodigal son in an effort to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually.

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NAS). Why would these Pharisees need a lesson on losing salvation when they are not even saved in the first place? The context does not support your theory.

Luke 18:9-14 talks about how the Tax Collector was justified for crying out to the Lord to have mercy on him in his being a sinner. Jesus said he was justified in this.

To be justified is to be declared just or righteous. The Pharisee did not cry out to God, and thus he was not justified according to Jesus.

The Pharisee was self righteous and trusted in works righteousness (sound familiar) and there is no justification in works righteousness (Romans 4:2-6) yet the tax collector humbly acknowledged his sin and need of forgiveness from the Lord. He went away justified.

And your view sets up a person to justify that they can sin and still be saved, or to be lazy for their Lord. For if a person cannot lose salvation by having a belief alone in Jesus, then there is no real incentive to do good.

Wow! You really showing your true colors here! So many lazy Christians out there who just sin all they want, yet still expect to be saved, but instead will lose their salvation, while you on the other hand are working so hard at abstaining from all sin in your life and will surely be saved based on the merits of your performance. That is what I'm hearing. No incentive to do good you say? That is your motivation for doing good? Can't be saved if you are not "good enough?" You could not make it any clearer that you teach works righteousness.

Catholics believe that works includes the traditions or sacraments as a part of salvation. I believe that their traditions are seriously unbiblical. Prayers to mary, the saints, confessions to a priest, calling men their father, and bowing down and or kissing statues is not biblical in the slightest. So when they say works, they have a different understanding on what that includes.

Difference in style, but same in substance - "works based" false gospel.

But to answer your question: James says this:

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:18).

Obviously James is saying here that he will show you his faith by his works.

Exactly! We show our faith by our works, but we do not establish it. You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

This means works is a part of our faith.

Works are the fruit of faith, but not the essence of faith. Works-salvationists basically define faith "as" works of obedience and the end result is salvation by faith AND WORKS.

In fact, the Bible describes “work of faith” in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11.

In regards to 1 Thessalonians 1:3, notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished or that we are saved by works that are produced out of faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" faith. I've heard works-salvationists try to turn work "of" faith into this work "is" faith and end up making no distinction between faith and works that follow as a result of faith.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2020

Swag365 said:
OK pal. If that floats your boat.

The church that we find in the New Testament had bishops, elders, and deacons. Who is your bishop, Larry from accounting?

That was the early church. Do we still go around in the same clothes as they did? Do we still travel with staffs? Again, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of man. You either believe that, or you don't. The choice is yours.

Side Note:

Oh, and speaking about what the Bible actually says: I also do not see anything in the Bible about praying to the saints, confessing sins to a priest, and bowing and kissing statues, and or uplifting one believer as an infallible pope.

Saved by faith alone

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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