Who is the woman in Revelations 12?

prodromos said:

Is she queen of the Jews? If not, what on earth has that got to do with the topic?

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Brrrrrrrrr. It sure got cold in here.

CharismaticLady said:

Brrrrrrrrr. It sure got cold in here.

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The queen being mother of the king is from Hebrew culture. In other cultures the queen is the wife of the king, hence why your question made no sense.

mathinspiration said:

Revelation 12 MSG;NIV - The Woman, Her Son, and the Dragon - A - Bible Gateway


Is it Mary or the church?

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Neither. It is the nation of Israel.

Denadii said:

If you read the whole chapter.....The woman is the church who gives birth to the bride...Who is caught up and the rest of the church has to flee from the antichrist. Study and you will find that not all the born again church is the bride...Only those who are ready.

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Not so brother.

The woman is Israel who gives birth to Jesus whose death is the cornerstone of the Bride which is the church.

klutedavid said:

What is the time, times and half a time?

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Oooops.....
It is actually 3 and 1/2 years!

The Tribulation Peroid is 7 years and the GREAT tribulation is 3 & 1/2 years.

Denadii said:

So...Israel gives birth to a 'son' What is that?

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In Revelation chapter 12, John sees a vision of a woman "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Revelation 12:1). Note the similarity between this description and the description that Joseph gave of his father Jacob (Israel) and his mother and their children (Genesis 37:9-11).
The twelve stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel. So the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.

While it is true that Mary gave birth to Jesus, it is also true that Jesus, the son of David from the tribe of Judah, came from Israel. In a sense, Israel gave birth—or brought forth—Christ Jesus. Verse 5 says that the woman’s child was "a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne." Clearly, this is describing Jesus. Jesus ascended to heaven ( Acts 1:9-11) and will one day establish His kingdom on earth in Rev. 20:4-6, and He will rule it with perfect judgment (the “rod of iron”; in Psalms 2:7-9.

But beyound that.......
Revelation 12:1.......
" And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

Fact established. The "woman" delivered in PAIN.
Right?
Now WHY does the woman suffer PAIN when delivering a baby?

Gen. 3:16........
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you".

Now I encourage all the Catholic believers to please take the time to read this carefully..................

PAIN in childbirth is Gods CURSE upon women, for ORIGINAL SIN ... before that, no pain, after that, PAIN IN CHILDBIRTH...right?

We know the woman in Revelation delivered IN TRAIL AND PAIN = the woman carries the CURSE of PAIN.

Now ask yourself........
Does Catholicism have as DOGMA, that Mary was SINLESS? Yes, it does, in a brand new Dogma the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, Mary was without SIN from Conception.

Ergo, she did NOT carry the CURSE from the Garden, right?
No curse = NO PAIN.
So, EITHER
The "woman" in Revelation is NOT Mary { and "she is not" she is the nation of Israel } OR she IS MARY, but the PAIN showed that the DOGMA of the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IS IN ERROR.

Pick one.
Why "Mary" Cannot BE The Woman In Revelation 12

Major1 said:

7 years!

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Hello Major1.

Revelation 12:14
But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

So does that mean the period of time the woman was nourished, was of a seven year duration?

Major1 said:

Neither. It is the nation of Israel.

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I agree that Israel is the woman. Mary may be the physical image Israel in this case, as Jesus is the image of God, but Israel is the representation.

klutedavid said:

Hello Major1.

Revelation 12:14
But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

So does that mean the period of time the woman was nourished, was of a seven year duration?

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It means she was nourished--sustained--for the complete length of time necessary. That might mean 70 years--from about the birth of Christ until the destruction of the temple. But seven years basically means "the complete length of time necessary."

The bible offers us a clear cut example of a woman who is also the people of a nation. The woman at the well in reference to the number of her husbands. Five have fallen one is.

Rev. 17:9
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Her history parallels the history of Samaria. Thats why Jesus calls her Woman. At that time the nation of Samaria had had five vassal kings that had come and gone over the generations, and the one she had at the time of this encounter, Jesus said wasn't her husband either. Jesus spoke to her differently. How many times do we hear Jesus saying " yeah I'm that guy, I'm the messiah."

Her experience of life paralleled the experience of all the people of Samaria from the time of it's first foreign King. Samaria a nation of idolaters. But not after her encounter with Jesus. She was looking out for the messiah. She doesn't let her expectations have sway over the truth. She is obviously a prophetess.

The Idolatrous Samarians wanted Jesus to stay, that is all those who believed because she believed, but Jesus could only stay two days, a short time for new believers. The new converts believed at first because they had faith in the woman at the well. Then they say that they believe because they heard Jesus themselves.

The picture is of a woman who found her real husband. She found the messiah! Her seventh is Jesus who is also an eighth who is one of the seven and is going to destruction. Where was Jesus going? To the cross.

Who is the eighth? The Risen Christ.

Compare her story to the description of the woman as given by the angel to John and the implications are a....a deep well.

Paul say's the mother of Christians is Jerusalem from above.

Gal.4:22

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

klutedavid said:

Hello Major1.

Revelation 12:14
But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

So does that mean the period of time the woman was nourished, was of a seven year duration?

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That is NOT my understanding. IMHO the "Time and times and half a time" = 42 months which = 3 and 1/2 years or 1260 days. For purposes of Bible computations, the Bible recons a year as 360 days.

The "Tribulation" Period is a Seven (7) year event in time, however the "GREAT Tribulation" is 3 & 1/2 years and it begins when the A/C stands in the rebuilt temple and declares that HE is God.

When we read throughly the account here in the Revelation, it becomes very clear that the objective of the hatred of the dragon is the woman.....ISRAEL.

What he could not do at the birth of Christ, the extermination of the Messiah, he now seeks to compensate for it by the persecution of Israel and her descendants.

It is those descendants in Israel who remained in Jerusalem who will fly "As on the wings of an eagle" to a safer location.

Many say that the "Wings of an eagle" means that the USA will be involved as that is our nation emblem. I do not think that is the case. The "wings of an Eagle" in the original Greek simple means an explination of their quick escape and it does not mean a country or region.

RDKirk said:

It means she was nourished--sustained--for the complete length of time necessary. That might mean 70 years--from about the birth of Christ until the destruction of the temple. But seven years basically means "the complete length of time necessary."

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Isn't that a "Pretearist" theological position?

RDKirk said:

I agree that Israel is the woman. Mary may be the physical image Israel in this case, as Jesus is the image of God, but Israel is the representation.

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Personally brother Kirk, I do not believe that Mary is involved in any way at all.

That simply comes from years of Catholic teachings and certainly not Bible truth.

But......that is just my opinion and you know what that is worth.

Eloy Craft said:

The bible offers us a clear cut example of a woman who is also the people of a nation. The woman at the well in reference to the number of her husbands. Five have fallen one is.

Rev. 17:9
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Her history parallels the history of Samaria. Thats why Jesus calls her Woman. At that time the nation of Samaria had had five vassal kings that had come and gone over the generations, and the one she had at the time of this encounter, Jesus said wasn't her husband either. Jesus spoke to her differently. How many times do we hear Jesus saying " yeah I'm that guy, I'm the messiah."

Her experience of life paralleled the experience of all the people of Samaria from the time of it's first foreign King. Samaria a nation of idolaters. But not after her encounter with Jesus. She was looking out for the messiah. She doesn't let her expectations have sway over the truth. She is obviously a prophetess.

The Idolatrous Samarians wanted Jesus to stay, that is all those who believed because she believed, but Jesus could only stay two days, a short time for new believers. The new converts believed at first because they had faith in the woman at the well. Then they say that they believe because they heard Jesus themselves.

The picture is of a woman who found her real husband. She found the messiah! Her seventh is Jesus who is also an eighth who is one of the seven and is going to destruction. Where was Jesus going? To the cross.

Who is the eighth? The Risen Christ.

Compare her story to the description of the woman as given by the angel to John and the implications are a....a deep well.

Paul say's the mother of Christians is Jerusalem from above.

Gal.4:22

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

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I am not sure what you are trying to say, but I do not think I agree with your theology of Rev. 17:9-11 being compared to the Samarian woman.

Frankly, I have never heard that said by anyone.

Rev. 17 is actually about "Babylon, the Religious System of the A/C".

Many, if not most say that the city on 7 hills is Rome as it actually encompasses 7 hills.

During the end of the age we see that there are 2 rival women and both claim to love God. One is the true church of real believers which is the BRIDE of Christ and the other is the "Apostate church" which is the Great Harlot of Babylon that is controlled by the A/C.

Major1 said:

Isn't that a "Pretearist" theological position?

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Some prophesy has been completed. The temple was, indeed, destroyed, and that destruction was an epoch: It was the point at which faithful Jews could no longer effectively practice the Law, specifically its most important function of the atonement of sin by routine sacrifices.

I believe this is an implicit prophesy in Hebrews 8:13 when the writer tells us:

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

At the time of its writing, the destruction of the temple was still in the writer's future--but not very far into the future. The Mosaic law's provision of sacrifice for the atonement of sin was made obsolete by Christ's death on the cross, but it had not then disappeared. At the time of writing, sacrifices were still being made; when the temple was destroyed, the Mosaic Law was made ineffective in its primary purpose. At that point, there was no possible atonement of sin except through Christ.

I think it's possible that if Revelation was written at the close of the first century and that verse 12 in its entirety is a spiritual description of past events up to that time.

Major1 said:

Many say that the "Wings of an eagle" means that the USA will be involved as that is our nation emblem. I do not think that is the case. The "wings of an Eagle" in the original Greek simple means an explination of their quick escape and it does not mean a country or region.

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I agree.

I'll also point out that the eagle was the symbol of the Roman empire at the time.

RDKirk said:

I agree.

I'll also point out that the eagle was the symbol of the Roman empire at the time.

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Yes.....good point. However, "IF" the Revived Roman Empire is what is in view as the vehicle of the A/C, it seems unlikely that it would allow the A/C to be in controle & declare that he is God, and then help the Jews escape Jerusalem.

But that is just my way of thinking so don't follow it as the Scriptures are just not clear on this.

Major1 said:

Yes.....good point. However, "IF" the Revived Roman Empire is what is in view as the vehicle of the A/C, it seems unlikely that it would allow the A/C to be in controle & declare that he is God, and then help the Jews escape Jerusalem.

But that is just my way of thinking so don't follow it as the Scriptures are just not clear on this.

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Would you be in favor of a new Roman Empire?

mathinspiration said:

Revelation 12 MSG;NIV - The Woman, Her Son, and the Dragon - A - Bible Gateway


Is it Mary or the church?

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Depends on which line and phrase you are reading in Revelation 12.

Revelation 12:1
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel, Church) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on
her head a crown of twelve stars.

Revelation 12:2
And she (Mary, Israel, Church) was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

Revelation 12:4
And the dragon stood before the woman (Mary, Israel, Church) who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

Revelation 12:5
And she (Mary, Church, Israel) gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.

Revelation 12:6
Then the woman (Church) fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be
nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Revelation 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel, Church) who gave
birth to the male child.

Revelation 12:15
And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman (Israel, Church) so that he might cause her
to be swept away with the flood.

Revelation 12:17
So the dragon was enraged with the woman (Church), and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Not David said:

Would you be in favor of a new Roman Empire?

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I think you have misunderstood me.

I am not in favor or against anything found in the Word of God.

It is either believing and accepting what is found in the Scriptures or accepting what some men have decided is truth.

The term Revived Roman Empire is not used in Scripture but refers to a powerful government predicted in biblical prophecy.

The Revived Roman Empire is commonly associated with the fourth beast of Daniel chapter 7. This beast is described as “terrifying and frightening and very powerful” in Daniel 7:7.

I for one accept the teaching that this ten-horned beast is a prophetic picture of the Roman Empire (verses 19–24), but, as Daniel watches, a little horn rises from the beast, with “eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully” (verse 8).

This final horn is the Antichrist, who will somehow be connected with the Revived Roman Empire. Since the Roman Empire has been defunct since the fifth century, we expect it to be “revived” in some way to fulfill the end-times’ prophecies.

Now, am I in favor of that???? It does not actually matter does it brother. IF the Bible says that it is going to happen then it does not matter what I or anyone is in favor of.
It is simply something that WILL TAKE PLACE whether anyone likes it or not.

Thank you for asking and make sure you stay safe in the dangerous times.