The Righteous --- Mormon Perspective

Rescued One

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Their scripture explains it best.

Doctrine and Covenants 84
49 And the whole world lieth in sin, and groaneth under darkness and under the bondage of sin.

50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.

51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.

52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.

53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.

They send their missionaries out for the purpose of bringing people unto Christ.

"You are called to represent Jesus Christ in helping people become clean from their sins. You do this by inviting them to come unto Jesus Christ and become converted to His restored gospel. To come to the Savior they must have faith in Him unto repentance—making the necessary changes to bring their life into agreement with His teachings. You can help people develop such faith by teaching them the restored gospel by the Spirit and inviting them to commit to live according to its teachings. Keeping this commitment prepares them for the covenant of baptism and confirmation and the precious gift of the Holy Ghost.
Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service, (2004)

I think that explains why they want to convert people from non-Mormon churches.
 

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Their scripture explains it best.

Doctrine and Covenants 84
49 And the whole world lieth in sin, and groaneth under darkness and under the bondage of sin.

50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.

51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.

52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.

53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.

They send their missionaries out for the purpose of bringing people unto Christ.

"You are called to represent Jesus Christ in helping people become clean from their sins. You do this by inviting them to come unto Jesus Christ and become converted to His restored gospel. To come to the Savior they must have faith in Him unto repentance—making the necessary changes to bring their life into agreement with His teachings. You can help people develop such faith by teaching them the restored gospel by the Spirit and inviting them to commit to live according to its teachings. Keeping this commitment prepares them for the covenant of baptism and confirmation and the precious gift of the Holy Ghost.
Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service, (2004)

I think that explains why they want to convert people from non-Mormon churches.

A fitting source with its choice of words. "Preach My Gospel". Not "Preach The Gospel", as is most commonly referenced in Christianity. I don't recall Jesus ever saying "my gospel", only "the good news" or "the kingdom".
 
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withwonderingawe

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A fitting source with its choice of words. "Preach My Gospel". Not "Preach The Gospel", as is most commonly referenced in Christianity. I don't recall Jesus ever saying "my gospel", only "the good news" or "the kingdom".

I thought it was Jesus' Gospel or the Gospel of Jesus;
  • Romans 1:9
    9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

  • 1 Corinthians 9:18
    18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

  • D&C 39;1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ—....And verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth my gospel receiveth me; and he that receiveth not my gospel receiveth not me.
I guess what you don't like is the "restored Gospel", that really bothers you.
 
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Rescued One

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I thought it was Jesus' Gospel or the Gospel of Jesus;
  • Romans 1:9
    9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

  • 1 Corinthians 9:18
    18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

  • D&C 39;1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ—....And verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth my gospel receiveth me; and he that receiveth not my gospel receiveth not me.
I guess what you don't like is the "restored Gospel", that really bothers you.

Do you believe that you or anyone else can become a Christian without coming to Christ?
 
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withwonderingawe

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Do you believe that you or anyone else can become a Christian without coming to Christ?

Of course not.
Omni 1
"26 And now, my beloved brethren, I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved.
 
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Rescued One

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Of course not.
Omni 1
"26 And now, my beloved brethren, I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved.

If this is taught then have any non-Mormon Protestants already come unto Christ? According to Mormonism, only Mormons belong to the Kingdom of God on earth.
 
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withwonderingawe

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If this is taught then have any non-Mormon Protestants already come unto Christ? According to Mormonism, only Mormons belong to the Kingdom of God on earth.

Phoebe; If this is taught then have any non-Mormon Protestants already come unto Christ? According to Mormonism, only Mormons belong to the Kingdom of God on earth.

I think you miss the eternal nature of how we view salvation and the reward. We don’t believe in a burning fiery hell so it’ not a matter of pulling you out of it.

Eventually all men will bow the knee to Christ and eventually all men will leave the place we call the spirit prison as they finally call on Jesus to forgive them. I think Alma’s experience as he describes in Alma 36 is a good example.

“I was racked with eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins.

…I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.…..as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more. And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain! “

All of everyone will finally bow the knee.

Now Yes we believe we are God’s Kingdom on Earth and the only way to enter that kingdom is through baptism into it.

But having said that there are many many many wonderful Christians who have bowed their knee to Christ and strive to serve him to the best of their ability and knowledge. When they die the fullness of the Gospel will be taught to them and they will recognize as the truth. They will come to known God as their Eternal Heavenly Father and accept the baptisms done for them by proxy.

They then will be judged by their works or by how much of Christ like love they learned and demonstrated by their actions. There is that millennial time were Jesus will reign and we will learn all about love from him.

At the final judgment the vast majority of people are going to be going to that middle kingdom of eternal happiness, since my finite mind can not understand the eternal I have a hard time grasping the whole nature of it.

The reasons for joining the Kingdom of God on Earth in this life are;

Your sins are forgiven here and you don’t have to go into the spirit prison. You receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost as your companion to guide you to greater knowledge, one can receive their calling and election in this life. Jesus can come and abode with you, that’s something we don’t talk about much because it is so sacred.
We can receive the blessings of the temple and be sealed to our eternal families. There is a great deal of joy which comes from living the gospel.

You use John 5:24 as your tag line
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Do you really understand what that means? To the Greek truth was something to be discovered or learned. But, to the Hebrew truth was something you do.

“But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” John 3:21
 
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Rescued One

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They then will be judged by their works or by how much of Christ like love they learned and demonstrated by their actions. There is that millennial time were Jesus will reign and we will learn all about love from him.

People will only be judged by the kind of works, whether evil or good, not by degrees. But those who heard his word, and believed him who sent Jesus, have eternal life, and do not come into judgment, but have passed out of death into life.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowedupon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

God deserves the praise and glory; we aren't worthy.

2 Corithians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1:8
Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.


At the final judgment the vast majority of people are going to be going to that middle kingdom of eternal happiness, since my finite mind can not understand the eternal I have a hard time grasping the whole nature of it.

There is no middle kingdom. All the sheep are equal because they have faith in the blood of Christ.

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Those who are lukewatm are goats; they didn't have the new birth.


Do you really understand what that means? To the Greek truth was something to be discovered or learned. But, to the Hebrew truth was something you do.
“But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” John 3:21

Christians are following the Shepherd (He is the Light), not Joseph Smith.
 
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fatboys

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ins no more. And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain! “

All of everyone will finally bow the knee.

Apparently you think that what your church teaches about those who were evil is true. It isn't.

I'm no novice. I know about the spirit prison, the paradise for the righteous, the two Mormon hells, the proxy work for the dead, the three degrees of glory, that there are three levels in the CK and only the members of the Church of the Firstborn which is there receive exaltation and dwell with your three gods, the earth becoming the Celestial Kingdom, and the Book of Mormon which I have read from cover to cover, etc.



Apparently you think that what your church teaches about those who were evil is true. It isn't.

Within the telestial glory there will be varying degrees of glory even as the stars vary in brightness as we see them. It embraces those who on earth willfully reject the gospel of Jesus Christ, and commit serious sins such as murder, adultery, lying, and loving to make a lie (but yet do not commit the unpardonable sin), and who do not repent in mortality. They will be cleansed in the postmortal spirit world or spirit prison before the resurrection (D&C 76:81-85, 98-106; Rev. 22:15). Telestial inhabitants as innumerable as the stars will come forth in the last resurrection and then be "servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come" (D&C 76:112). Although the least of the degrees of glory, yet the Telestial Kingdom "surpasses all understanding" (D&C 76:89). [See alsoDegrees of Glory.]
CLYDE J. WILLIAMS
BYU Harold B. Lee Library



Your church is not the Kingdom of God on earth.



Dream on.



People will only be judged by the kind of works, whether evil or good, not by degrees. But those who heard his word, and believed him who sent Jesus, have eternal life, and do not come into judgment, but have passed out of death into life.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowedupon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

God deserves the praise and glory; we aren't worthy.


2 Corithians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1:8
Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.




There is no middle kingdom. All the sheep are equal because they have faith in the blood of Christ.

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Those who are lukewatm are goats; they didn't have the new birth.




Mormon contradiction of biblical truth is truly sad.

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Christians are adopted sons and daughters of God's eternal family. And we are temples of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,



Of course, I know what it means. I already have eternal life.




Your church is not the Kingdom of God on earth.



“Now it is not possible, in my judgment, for people in the world to accept Christ and come to salvation, unless at one and the same time they accept the prophets whom Christ has sent and receive the administration of holy ordinances under their hands."
Bruce R. McConkie, Conference Report, October 1951, pp. 146-150

'Now, all the world today, I am sorry to say, with the exception of a handful of people who have obeyed the new and everlasting covenant, are suffering this spiritual death. They are cast out from the presence of God. They are without God, without Gospel truth, and without the power of redemption; for they know not God nor His Gospel. In order that they may be redeemed and saved from the spiritual death which has spread over the world like a pall, they must repent of their sins, and be baptized by one having [LDS] authority, for the remission of sins, that they may be born of God. That is why we want these young men to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. While they themselves understand but little perhaps, the germ of life is in them'"
(President Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, Oct. 1899, p. 72)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Copyright 1989, p. 111



People will only be judged by the kind of works, whether evil or good, not by degrees. But those who heard his word, and believed him who sent Jesus, have eternal life, and do not come into judgment, but have passed out of death into life.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowedupon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

God deserves the praise and glory; we aren't worthy.

2 Corithians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1:8
Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.




There is no middle kingdom. All the sheep are equal because they have faith in the blood of Christ.

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Those who are lukewatm are goats; they didn't have the new birth.




“But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” John 3:21[/QUOTE]

Christians are following the Shepherd, not Joseph Smith.[/QUOTE]
Hard to follow. You repeated yourself a few times. You Okay?
 
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Rescued One

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Now Yes we believe we are God’s Kingdom on Earth and the only way to enter that kingdom is through baptism into it.

But having said that there are many many many wonderful Christians who have bowed their knee to Christ and strive to serve him to the best of their ability and knowledge. When they die the fullness of the Gospel will be taught to them and they will recognize as the truth. They will come to known God as their Eternal Heavenly Father and accept the baptisms done for them by proxy.

'Now, all the world today, I am sorry to say, with the exception of a handful of people who have obeyed the new and everlasting covenant, are suffering this spiritual death. They are cast out from the presence of God. They are without God, without Gospel truth, and without the power of redemption; for they know not God nor His Gospel.
In order that they may be redeemed and saved from the spiritual death which has spread over the world like a pall, they must repent of their sins, and be baptized by one having [LDS] authority, for the remission of sins, that they may be born of God. That is why we want these young men to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. While they themselves understand but little perhaps, the germ of life is in them'" (President Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, Oct. 1899, p. 72)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Copyright 1989, p. 111

Acceptance of Christ Requires Acceptance of His Prophets
“Now it is not possible, in my judgment, for people in the world to accept Christ and come to salvation, unless at one and the same time they accept the prophets whom Christ has sent and receive the administration of holy ordinances under their hands.
“Christ and his prophets are one. We could not believe in Christ if there were not prophets to declare Christ and his saving truths unto us."
Bruce R. McConkie in CR, Oct. 1951, p. 147

Mormons wouldn't recognize a Christian.
 
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Rescued One

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Hard to follow. You repeated yourself a few times. You Okay?

I saw what happened and corrected it. I have incredible pain in my arm due to an injury. By the grace of God, I posted anyway.
 
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Rescued One

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Phoebe Ann said:
If this is taught then have any non-Mormon Protestants already come unto Christ? According to Mormonism, only Mormons belong to the Kingdom of God on earth.

I think you miss the eternal nature of how we view salvation and the reward. We don’t believe in a burning fiery hell so it’ not a matter of pulling you out of it.

I'm no novice. I know how your church erroneously views salvation and reward. I know about the spirit prison, the paradise for the righteous, the two Mormon hells, the proxy work for the dead, the three degrees of glory, that there are three levels in the CK and only the members of the Church of the Firstborn which is there receive exaltation and dwell with your three gods, the earth becoming the Celestial Kingdom, and the Book of Mormon which I have read from cover to cover, etc. and etc.
 
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withwonderingawe

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People will only be judged by the kind of works, whether evil or good, not by degrees. But those who heard his word, and believed him who sent Jesus, have eternal life, and do not come into judgment, but have passed out of death into life.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowedupon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

God deserves the praise and glory; we aren't worthy.

2 Corithians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1:8
Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.




There is no middle kingdom. All the sheep are equal because they have faith in the blood of Christ.

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Those who are lukewatm are goats; they didn't have the new birth.

Christians are following the Shepherd (He is the Light), not Joseph Smith.

Phoebe; There is no middle kingdom. All the sheep are equal because they have faith in the blood of Christ.

1 Cor 15
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead....

Phoebe; Christians are following the Shepherd (He is the Light), not Joseph Smith.
Matt 10
40 ¶He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

Praying for his Apostles
"6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.....Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word"
 
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withwonderingawe

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I'm no novice. I know how your church erroneously views salvation and reward. I know about the spirit prison, the paradise for the righteous, the two Mormon hells, the proxy work for the dead, the three degrees of glory, that there are three levels in the CK and only the members of the Church of the Firstborn which is there receive exaltation and dwell with your three gods, the earth becoming the Celestial Kingdom, and the Book of Mormon which I have read from cover to cover, etc. and etc.

How long were you a member?
 
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1 Cor 15
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead....

We are not raised to be celestial, terrestrial, or telestial. Telestial is a word invented by Mormons anyway.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1. Man has a natural body. 2. When he is resurrected, he'll have a spiritual body.
 
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BigDaddy4

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I thought it was Jesus' Gospel or the Gospel of Jesus;
  • Romans 1:9
    9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

  • 1 Corinthians 9:18
    18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

  • D&C 39;1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ—....And verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth my gospel receiveth me; and he that receiveth not my gospel receiveth not me.
I guess what you don't like is the "restored Gospel", that really bothers you.
No, what bothers me is you and your church's misuse of the Gospel and the incorrect portrayal of Jesus. Jesus never claimed it was his gospel. It was not his "good news". He gave glory to God, always. It was The Gospel, The Kingdom, etc. Even your scripture quotes above, minus your D&C, which I do not consider scripture, supports this view.
 
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withwonderingawe

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No, what bothers me is you and your church's misuse of the Gospel and the incorrect portrayal of Jesus.

How so..? I could say the same about you.

Jesus never claimed it was his gospel. It was not his "good news". He gave glory to God, always.

Good point, he said "...the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me" but the passages I quoted called it "the gospel of Christ" but that could mean the gospel/good news that the Messiah has come.

I know you don't accept our scriptures as scripture and any sort of cannon but I only use it to clarify what we actually teach because it's so often distorted.
 
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How so..? I could say the same about you.



Good point, he said "...the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me" but the passages I quoted called it "the gospel of Christ" but that could mean the gospel/good news that the Messiah has come.

I know you don't accept our scriptures as scripture and any sort of cannon but I only use it to clarify what we actually teach because it's so often distorted.

Mormons claim a different Christ than Catholics and Protestants

The Truth about Mormonism: Mormons follow a different Christ than traditional Christians
 
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