John MacArthur - Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church

rockytopva said:

Grace Community Church, led by Pastor John MacArthur, announced this week that it will not submit to California Governor Gavin Newsom’s order to halt indoor church services, declaring that “Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church.”

John MacArthur's CA Church Announces It Will Not Submit To Gov. Newsom's Ban On Indoor Church Services ⋆ Activist Mommy

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Putting the lives of the congregation in jeopardy is not anything a responsible pastor would do. Since when did Jesus say "kill my sheep"?

rockytopva said:

Grace Community Church, led by Pastor John MacArthur, announced this week that it will not submit to California Governor Gavin Newsom’s order to halt indoor church services, declaring that “Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church.”

John MacArthur's CA Church Announces It Will Not Submit To Gov. Newsom's Ban On Indoor Church Services ⋆ Activist Mommy

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Not a wise decision it would seem. We have already seen some congregations hit hard by the virus.

rockytopva said:

Grace Community Church, led by Pastor John MacArthur, announced this week that it will not submit to California Governor Gavin Newsom’s order to halt indoor church services, declaring that “Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church.”

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I think maybe the OP goes too far saying Grace Church will not submit...... nor do i think John Macarthur would appreciate "ActivistMommy's" interpretation of the Church's statement. Refer to the officlal statement on the church's website:
Christ, not Caesar, Is Head of the Church

rockytopva said:

Grace Community Church, led by Pastor John MacArthur, announced this week that it will not submit to California Governor Gavin Newsom’s order to halt indoor church services, declaring that “Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church.”

John MacArthur's CA Church Announces It Will Not Submit To Gov. Newsom's Ban On Indoor Church Services ⋆ Activist Mommy

Click to expand...

I like my MacArthur study Bible even though I don't agree with him everywhere. Amen he is growing a pair, and standing up against the dictator of Ca!

I hope the church we attend don't shut down again. Good for him for following Gods word about not forsaking fellowship as we see the Day of Christ the Lord approaching. This is our right as Americans.

Rioting, looting. violent, BLMers can do what they want, but peaceful church folk can't. This is the state of affairs in America today.

Hebrews 10,
19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

pescador said:

Putting the lives of the congregation in jeopardy is not anything a responsible pastor would do. Since when did Jesus say "kill my sheep"?

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Where's your faith? What happens when the time comes to worship the beast or not if you are afraid to even go to church now? Did you even read the article. How can any born again christian not agree with what he wrote?

martin-luther2 said:

I think maybe the OP goes too far saying Grace Church will not submit...... nor do i think John Macarthur would appreciate "ActivistMommy's" interpretation of the Church's statement. Refer to the officlal statement on the church's website:
Christ, not Caesar, Is Head of the Church

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The final line in the statement...
Stand with us in support of the biblical mandate to gather for corporate worship.
Then he asks others to sign on in agreement.

Running2win said:

Where's your faith? What happens when the time comes to worship the beast or not if you are afraid to even go to church now? Did you even read the article. How can any born again christian not agree with what he wrote?

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This born again Christian!

Hank77 said:

The final line in the statement...
Stand with us in support of the biblical mandate to gather for corporate worship.
Then he asks others to sign on in agreement.

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What's wrong with that? Or did I miss something?

martin-luther2 said:

I think maybe the OP goes too far saying Grace Church will not submit...... nor do i think John Macarthur would appreciate "ActivistMommy's" interpretation of the Church's statement. Refer to the officlal statement on the church's website:
Christ, not Caesar, Is Head of the Church

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! My wife and I signed and I called the Church and thanked them for standing up against the Ca. dictator. I encourage every true born again Christian to sign to. Wake up sleeper! Time to trim our lamps.

If we don't stand up now, we will bow to the Beast and his man.

1And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.
Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” 5There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

7It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. 9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

Running2win said:

Where's your faith? What happens when the time comes to worship the beast or not if you are afraid to even go to church now? Did you even read the article. How can any born again christian not agree with what he wrote?

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I agree with the statement. What I don’t understand is why little or no mitigation measures were taken for common sense health.

It seems the media and many politicians and citizens believe in the false dichotomy. There are ways to fully honor God and take precautions.

redleghunter said:

I agree with the statement. What I don’t understand is why little or no mitigation measures were taken for common sense health.

It seems the media and many politicians and citizens believe in the false dichotomy. There are ways to fully honor God and take precautions.

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At the Church we attend you can wear a mask or not. They have moved the chairs allowing more space, the offering is not taken but it is at the back in a box-most do online giving anymore, and of course they have a televised Utube service is you do not want to attend for what ever reason.

Not sure what his Church does, but probably something similar.

Running2win said:

What's wrong with that? Or did I miss something?

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I didn't say anything was wrong with it. Maybe if you read the post I was responding to?

Hank77 said:

I didn't say anything was wrong with it. Maybe if you read the post I was responding to?

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I did read it but I took it as a slight because of your other post. Yes you didn't sorry.

rockytopva said:

Grace Community Church, led by Pastor John MacArthur, announced this week that it will not submit to California Governor Gavin Newsom’s order to halt indoor church services, declaring that “Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church.”

John MacArthur's CA Church Announces It Will Not Submit To Gov. Newsom's Ban On Indoor Church Services ⋆ Activist Mommy

Click to expand...

Who will pay the medical bills? Boris Johnson, the prime minister of England, had to go to the hospital for oxygen after he got sick from the virus.

martin-luther2 said:

I think maybe the OP goes too far saying Grace Church will not submit...... nor do i think John Macarthur would appreciate "ActivistMommy's" interpretation of the Church's statement. Refer to the officlal statement on the church's website:
Christ, not Caesar, Is Head of the Church

Click to expand...

That may be the best thing he has ever written...

Running2win said:

Rioting, looting. violent, BLMers can do what they want, but peaceful church folk can't. This is the state of affairs in America today.

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Isn't this the reason children give? Billy gets to do it so why can't I? I think the church ought to set the example and not give arguments that amount to: so-and-so does it, so we should get to do it too. I think the fact is the virus is real, it's highly contagious, it's deadly to a lot of people, it spreads by respiratory droplets, and so getting large number of people together in an enclosed space for an sufficiently long period of time will significantly increase their risk of infection, serious illness, and death. Nothing that the governor of any state does and nothing that rioters do will change this. If rioters and state governors want to expose themselves and masses to covid-19, then that doesn't mean that John MacArthur should too. If the governor of s state or other citizens choose to be irresponsible, it doesn't follow that the church should do the same. The church should be the example and not facilitate infection rates, irresponsible behavior, or irresponsible policy.

If the governor of state is applying laws inconsistently (and I have no doubt some of them are), then there is a mechanism in place for redress - the state can be sued in court. The wrong mechanism is to increase the risk of infection to the congregation members. This looks to be morally indefensible and irresponsible.

If all of the congregation members showed up Sunday at MacArthur's church (and they won't), then based on the current Covid numbers in the LA Area, it's almost assured that some of them will have it and spread it.

source: https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

I just want to say how proud I am of Pastor MacArthur's opening of Grace Community Church. He is absolutely right that we are to render onto Caesar that which is Caesar's, but Caesar does not have authority over God's church.

To the comments here that he is putting his congregation at risk my answer is that he does not say attendance is mandatory. I'm pretty sure that the service will be live-streamed, and parishioners who are uncomfortable assembling during this virus time are welcome to stay home.

I'm also fairly certain that when we see that first service we'll see plenty of people wearing masks, avoiding shaking hands, hugging, etc.

Personally, next thing I think the church should do is get out from under the yoke of the government all together and decline the church tax exemption. But, that's a topic for another post.

dqhall said:

Who will pay the medical bills?

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John MacArthur won't be paying, unless he ends up getting sued and settling or losing. He will be socially distanced at the pulpit.

I also tend to look at things from a perspective of economic incentives. The economy has been hit hard, lots of people are out of jobs, and churches have not been holding as many in person services to the typical numbers of people. Given all of this, church budgets are obviously strained (and I see Grace Community Church on the list of PPP loan recipients [1] ). There is, then, an economic incentive in place for churches to reopen their doors as the church staff's source of income is dependent on the voluntary giving of the congregation members, and since there is a $1-2 million loan to be re-payed. John MacArthur may have moral claims to reopening, but there is also an unstated economic incentive for reopening. Who benefits economically from the church reopening? The church and it's staff, including (presumably) John MacArthur. Who bears the risk for the church reopening? The congregation members who will be risking covid-19.

Christ, not Ceasar, may be the head of the Church, but for some churches Caesar's loans work just fine.

[1] SBA Paycheck Protection Program Loan Level Data | U.S. Department of the Treasury