CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Victor in Christ

Jehovah Tsidkenu
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Grieve him not this week, grieve him not this day, grieve him not in the places that you go, grieve him not in the things that you think, grieve him not in the things you say, grieve him not by living a worldy life, instead of grieving him, let us love him, let us honour him, let us obey him, let us be lead by him, guided by him, let us live by this spirit of promise....Who God justifies he also Glorifies....The Holy spirit is the earnest of our inheritance. The Holy Spirit is God's down-payment/guarantee to enter into the full possesion of the inheritence laid up by God in glory . Journey homeward, journey onward with heart encouraged, journey upward to full glory with God.

God the Holy Spirit our Sealer
 
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BNR32FAN

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Glad you quoted that verse!

Branches in Christ- are in Christ! If they bear no fruit? He taketh away!

taketh away:

airō Αἶρε — 3x
αἴρει — 8x
αἴρεις — 2x
αἴρεται — 1x
αἴρετε — 1x
αἰρόμενον — 1x
αἴροντός — 1x
αἴροντος — 1x
αἴρων — 2x
αἴρωσιν — 1x
ἆραί — 1x
ἆραι — 5x
ἄραντες — 2x
ἄρας — 6x
ἄρατε — 3x
Ἄρατε — 3x
ἀράτω — 4x
ἄρῃ — 5x
ἄρῃς — 1x
ἀρθήσεται — 6x
Ἄρθητι — 2x
ἀρθήτω — 1x
ἀρθῶσιν — 1x
ἆρόν — 1x
ἆρον — 6x
Ἆρον — 3x
ἀροῦσίν — 2x
ἀροῦσιν — 2x
ἀρῶ — 1x
ἦραν — 10x
Ἦραν — 2x
ἤρατε — 3x
ἦρεν — 6x
ἤρθη — 3x
ἦρκεν — 1x
ἠρμένον — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: take up (32x), take away (25x), take (25x), away with (5x), lift up (4x), bear (3x), miscellaneous (8x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to raise up, elevate, lift up
    1. to raise from the ground, take up: stones

    2. to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
It should be translated as lifts up!

In Jesus day, grapes were not grown in strings or arbors. They were grown and spread along the ground! If a branch was not producing, the farmer would take stones and lift the branch off the ground so that it would bear fruit!

Now look at teh branches NOT IN Christ

They are cut down and put into the fire!

In Christ- lifted up so they can bear fruit!

Not in Christ? cut down and burned.

In Christ and bearing fruit? Pruned so the leaves and branches that we call suckers are taken away so that branch can produce even more fruit!

This is actually a picture of eternal security and the gracious care of God

But what about those who leave the faith? Were they saved and then lost their salvation? The Bible says no, But he Bible does say about them:

Matt. 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

While gorwing teh tares (unsaved) look like wheat but it is not until harvest nears that one can tell the difference.

Another place:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Another place:

Matt. 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice what Jesus says to those who may have looked like Beleivers? I NEVER KNEW YOU!
e did not say, I knew you once but don't know you now, but He never had a relationship with them.

Why demean the blood of Jesus by saying His blood was unable to forgive ALL your sins?

WOAH WAIT A MINUTE. Where’s the rest of the definition for airo? The branch is attached to the vine so the proper definition is the one that refers to something that is attached to anything.
αἴρω G142

1. to raise up, elevate, lift up
a. to raise from the ground, take up: stones
b. to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
c. to draw up: a fish
2. to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
3. to bear away what has been raised, carry off
a. to move from its place
b. to take off or away what is attached to anything
c. to remove
d. to carry off, carry away with one
e. to appropriate what is taken
f. to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force
g. to take and apply to any use
h. to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
i. cause to cease
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes context does matter!
And what you are concluding is that Jesus death did not cover all teh sins of one who turned to HIm in faith!

You are saying that jesus gives conditional probationary eternal life.

YOu are adding to the SCripture when Jesus says they shall never perish (and then you say unless.....)

Sorry but you depreciate the very blood that has redeemed you!

If you did a language study of teh two major verses all those who believe th elie they can lose thier salvation (Heb. 6&10) You would find a totally different meaning than the English translation APPEAR to give (and it is an appearance only)

So Even though Jesus is keeping us until the day of REdemption, if a person has a season of sin- He is not powerful enough to keep them saved! WOW!

Even though God has declared us dead and our life hidden with Christ in God- you say we can resurrect ourself and tear away the salvation the blood Jesus shed paid for us!

May you experience (though I wish it not) a season of deep sin and learn that even in the midst of that season- you are still loved, still forgiven and you name still written in the book of lif of the Lamb!

Sorry but no where does the Bible say that one who has been born again can become un-born again! And to follow you in misquoting SCripture, if one could lose their salvation- they can't get it back again.

So much for God loving us so much more now that we are His dear children.

Go and learn this:

Romans 5
King James Version
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now rece

We are not saved by works, nor do we maintain our salvation by a lack of bad works!

This post does not address anything you are quoting from in post # 109 linked that shows that every scripture you have provided is to "BELIEVERS" not those who have departed the faith to become "UNBELIEVERS".

Notice, you have not provided a single scripture that says that a believer cannot depart the faith, return back to a life of known unrepentant sin or that salvation is not conditional on believing and following Gods' Word.

The context to all the scriptures you have provided is to "BELIEVERS" (present tense) conditional on believing, not "UNBELIEVERS" to unbeliving or those who have "DEPARTED THE FAITH" to return to a life of known unrepentant sin who choose to reject God's Word when they have been given a knowledge of the truth. The context of the scriptures you have provided are to the believers so do not support any of the claims you have made. Context matters and this is the context of everyone of the scriptures you have provided in your post.

Yet it is God's Word not mine which was posted in the post you are quoting from that says word for word that we can "fall away" from the faith or "draw back" to a life of sin not me in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39.

No one has ever said that we are saved by works. This is a strawman argument no one is making. If no one is saying or claiming we are saved by the works of the law why are you pretending that they are?

We are saved by Grace through faith. Faith (believing and following God's Word - present tense participle) is therefore one of the conditions of salvation as is repentance. According to HEBREWS 10:26-27 those who reject Gods' Word in unbelief in order to continue in known unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth reject the gift of salvation from Gods dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing dispite to the Spirit of Gods grace *HEBREWS 10:29.

As the scriptures teach we are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Your trying to argue that sin.

Context matters. The scriptures you have provided are to believers not unbelievers or those who have departed the faith, therefore do not support your claims. According to the scriptures Gods' salvation is conditional on believing and following his Word (always in the present tense participle) because whatsoever is not of faith is sin *ROMANS 14:23 and sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-31.

Hope this helps
 
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CAN WE FALL AWAY FROM THE TRUTH OF GOD’S WORD BACK TO A LIFE OF KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME,

Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS of UNBELIEVERS? Were these BELIEVERS Born again christians. Notice the scripture context (Gods' Word not mine) as these who departed the faith were once believers not unbelievers.

1. Having been enlightened v4;
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift v4;
3. Having been made partakers of the Holy Ghost v5;
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God v4;
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5

[6], IF THEY (believers) SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame.

Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..

[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; WHOS END IS TO BE BURNED.

Yep their end is to be burned does not sound like they will be going into God's Kingdom not having any REPENTANCE for sin (v6). HEBREWS 6:4-8 is a warning to believers not to depart the faith

Same thoughts expressed further on in the book of HEBREWS again here...

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.[28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29], OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YOU, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WITH WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, AN UNHOLY THING, AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? [30], For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [31], IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD. [32], But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great fight of afflictions; [33], Partly, whilst you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst you became companions of them that were so used. [34], For you had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that you have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. [35], Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense of reward. [36], For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise. [37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.[38], NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. [39], But we are not of them who draw back to perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Yep seems like those who were once BELEIVERS but depart the faith and draw back to CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are God's Adversaries who will receive the judgments of God. Do you think these people will enter into God's Kingdom? Note the following from HEBREWS 10:26-39

1. For if "WE" (believers includes Paul) sin willfully after we receive a knowledge of the truth v26
2. God's sacrifice for sin does not cover us v26
3. If we continue in known unrepentant sin all that remains is a fearful looking forward to of judgement v27
4. This judgement shall devour and consume those who continue in sin v27
5. The believer that has now become an unbeliever and continues in sin is now God's adversary v27
6. Those who turn away from the truth of God's Word to sin become Gods' adversaries because they reject the gift of God's grace offerered by dear son v29
7. They are said to have trodden under food the son of God and counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing v29
8. Those who depart the faith do dispite of the Spirit of God's grace v29
9. The warning of God's vengence is given v30
10. For those who depart the faith it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God v31
11 The just are those who live by faith (believing and following Gods' Word) v38
12 Once again continuing on the same thought as point 11 IF ANY MAN DRAWS BACK (departs the faith) Pauls soul has no pleasure in him.

All the warnings from HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 are to believers not to depart the faith and reject God's Word in order to return to a life of known unrepentant sin. Paul includes himself in these warnings. These are Gods' Word not mine.

May God bless you as you believe his Word.
 
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Grieve him not this week, grieve him not this day, grieve him not in the places that you go, grieve him not in the things that you think, grieve him not in the things you say, grieve him not by living a worldy life, instead of grieving him, let us love him, let us honour him, let us obey him, let us be lead by him, guided by him, let us live by this spirit of promise....Who God justifies he also Glorifies....The Holy spirit is the earnest of our inheritance. The Holy Spirit is God's down-payment/guarantee to enter into the full possesion of the inheritence laid up by God in glory . Journey homeward, journey onward with heart encouraged, journey upward to full glory with God.

God the Holy Spirit our Sealer

God does not seal those who continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief according to the scriptures are the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10.
If God's Spirit can not depart those who were once sealed if we continue in sin and unbelief why are we warned in the scriptures not to greive *EPHESIANS 4:30 and quench (means put out) the Spirit of God *1 THESSALONIANS 5:19. If we continue in known unrepentant sin Gods' Spirit is on the outside pleading with us to return to God. According to the scriptures we are only sealed with Gods' Spirit as we continue to believe and follow Gods' Word (present tense participle). Those who profess Christ or have once known God and depart the faith are no longer in the faith according to the scriptures but have greived and quenched (put out) God's Spirit and are no longer following God according to the scriptures *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10 unless they repent and by faith seek God's forgiveness.

Hope this helps.
 
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BNR32FAN

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God does not seal those who continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief according to the scriptures are the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10.
If God's Spirit can not depart those who were once sealed if we continue in sin and unbelief why are we warned in the scriptures not to greive *EPHESIANS 4:30 and quench (means put out) the Spirit of God *1 THESSALONIANS 5:19. If we continue in known unrepentant sin Gods' Spirit is on the outside pleading with us to return to God. According to the scriptures we are only sealed with Gods' Spirit as we continue to believe and follow Gods' Word (present tense participle). Those who profess Christ or have once known God and depart the faith are no longer in the faith according to the scriptures but have greived and quenched (put out) God's Spirit and are no longer following God according to the scriptures *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10 unless they repent and by faith seek God's forgiveness.

Hope this helps.

Personally I believe once we have received the Holy Spirit we will never lose that inner conviction of sin because we were enlightened at one time we will always know good from evil. Hence we are sealed with the Holy Spirit because He will always be urging us to repent and return to God. I see the Holy Spirit sort of like a compass always pointing the way to God. He does not steer the boat. If we fall asleep at the wheel and don’t pay attention to the compass we may wake to find ourself way off course or maybe worse, shipwrecked.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Glad you quoted that verse!

Branches in Christ- are in Christ! If they bear no fruit? He taketh away!

taketh away:

airō Αἶρε — 3x
αἴρει — 8x
αἴρεις — 2x
αἴρεται — 1x
αἴρετε — 1x
αἰρόμενον — 1x
αἴροντός — 1x
αἴροντος — 1x
αἴρων — 2x
αἴρωσιν — 1x
ἆραί — 1x
ἆραι — 5x
ἄραντες — 2x
ἄρας — 6x
ἄρατε — 3x
Ἄρατε — 3x
ἀράτω — 4x
ἄρῃ — 5x
ἄρῃς — 1x
ἀρθήσεται — 6x
Ἄρθητι — 2x
ἀρθήτω — 1x
ἀρθῶσιν — 1x
ἆρόν — 1x
ἆρον — 6x
Ἆρον — 3x
ἀροῦσίν — 2x
ἀροῦσιν — 2x
ἀρῶ — 1x
ἦραν — 10x
Ἦραν — 2x
ἤρατε — 3x
ἦρεν — 6x
ἤρθη — 3x
ἦρκεν — 1x
ἠρμένον — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: take up (32x), take away (25x), take (25x), away with (5x), lift up (4x), bear (3x), miscellaneous (8x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to raise up, elevate, lift up
    1. to raise from the ground, take up: stones

    2. to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
It should be translated as lifts up!

In Jesus day, grapes were not grown in strings or arbors. They were grown and spread along the ground! If a branch was not producing, the farmer would take stones and lift the branch off the ground so that it would bear fruit!

Now look at teh branches NOT IN Christ

They are cut down and put into the fire!

In Christ- lifted up so they can bear fruit!

Not in Christ? cut down and burned.

In Christ and bearing fruit? Pruned so the leaves and branches that we call suckers are taken away so that branch can produce even more fruit!

This is actually a picture of eternal security and the gracious care of God

But what about those who leave the faith? Were they saved and then lost their salvation? The Bible says no, But he Bible does say about them:

Matt. 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

While gorwing teh tares (unsaved) look like wheat but it is not until harvest nears that one can tell the difference.

Another place:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Another place:

Matt. 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice what Jesus says to those who may have looked like Beleivers? I NEVER KNEW YOU!
e did not say, I knew you once but don't know you now, but He never had a relationship with them.

Why demean the blood of Jesus by saying His blood was unable to forgive ALL your sins?

Your skipping many of the implications in John 15 my friend. First of all who is Jesus’ audience? Only His 11 faithful apostles are present to hear this message. We’re they saved? Why does Jesus tell them to remain in Him in verse 4 if they are incapable of turning away? Why does He also say in verse 4 “so neither can YOU UNLESS YOU REMAIN IN ME”? If these 11 apostles are in fact saved, which we know without a doubt they are, then why would He imply the possibility of them failing to abide in Him if they weren't capable of doing so? In verse 6 how can anyone be capable of failing to remain in Christ who has never been in Christ? In order to remain in Christ you must first be in a Christ to begin with. A person who was never in Christ cannot remain in Him nor fail to remain in Him. In verse 7 and this is a really big implication here, Jesus says “IF YOU REMAIN IN ME”. You don’t use the word “IF” in an absolutely certain situation. The word “IF” implies a condition every single time it is used. So IF these 11 apostles were incapable of failing to remain in Christ then Jesus would’ve said “Since or because you are in Me or Since/Because you will remain in Me...” The word “IF” implies the possibility that they are capable of failing to remain in Him.
 
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nolidad

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Yet it is God's Word not mine which was posted in the post you are quoting from that says word for word that we can "fall away" from the faith or "draw back" to a life of sin not me in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39.

And yet I exhorted you to do a word and linguistic and historic study of the Book of Hebrews to see it is not about losing ones salvation. When you look at teh Greek and the verb tenses and voices etc. YOu will find out it has nothing to do with losing ones salvation.

Now you are responsible for clearing up your error on these verses.

So the day you doubt and stop believing- is the day you believe you lose your salvation!

Yours is nothing more than a salvation by works which Paul declared a false gospel and prayed an anathema to all who believe it!

It is a shame you will not plunge the depths of the greek to learn how deceived you have been taught in this.
 
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nolidad

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Your skipping many of the implications in John 15 my friend. First of all who is Jesus’ audience? Only His 11 faithful apostles are present to hear this message. We’re they saved? Why does Jesus tell them to remain in Him in verse 4 if they are incapable of turning away? Why does He also say in verse 4 “so neither can YOU UNLESS YOU REMAIN IN ME”? If these 11 apostles are in fact saved, which we know without a doubt they are, then why would He imply the possibility of them failing to abide in Him if they weren't capable of doing so? In verse 6 how can anyone be capable of failing to remain in Christ who has never been in Christ? In order to remain in Christ you must first be in a Christ to begin with. A person who was never in Christ cannot remain in Him nor fail to remain in Him. In verse 7 and this is a really big implication here, Jesus says “IF YOU REMAIN IN ME”. You don’t use the word “IF” in an absolutely certain situation. The word “IF” implies a condition every single time it is used. So IF these 11 apostles were incapable of failing to remain in Christ then Jesus would’ve said “Since or because you are in Me or Since/Because you will remain in Me...” The word “IF” implies the possibility that they are capable of failing to remain in Him.

No for there are no implications!

If a man is in Christ and bears no fruit- He is lifted up so He can bear fruit. That is the definition of the word "airo" in the greek which we get our word aero from.

A person who is saved has been born from above and is a new creature (2 Cor. 5:17) and the old man has been declared dead by God! We have been translated once for all from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of the son of HIs love! Nothing can separate us from the love of God! OUr sin debt was paid in full! Even the future ones you have yet to commit! If not then you are saying that the omnipotent Jesus is not more powerful than sin and the omniscient Jesus would give someone salvation, born them from above, make them a new creature knowing that He would take their salvation away!

If you wish to say He doesn't take it away, but we remove it ourselves- then you are saying that Jesus blood and His resurrected glorified self is incapable of saving those the Father gave to HIm! This is what you are trying to tell everybody here. If you really believe that, I would like to introduce you to teh Jesus of teh Bible, He never lets His children stumble to destruction!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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And yet I exhorted you to do a word and linguistic and historic study of the Book of Hebrews to see it is not about losing ones salvation. When you look at teh Greek and the verb tenses and voices etc. YOu will find out it has nothing to do with losing ones salvation.

Now you are responsible for clearing up your error on these verses.

So the day you doubt and stop believing- is the day you believe you lose your salvation!

Yours is nothing more than a salvation by works which Paul declared a false gospel and prayed an anathema to all who believe it!

It is a shame you will not plunge the depths of the greek to learn how deceived you have been taught in this.

Your mistaken dear friend as I do indeed look at the Greek and the Hebrew. I have also provided context that you have left out of the scriptures in your posts that show why I believe you are in error. I believe all you have provided here is your opinions unsupported by scripture that does not address anything in the posts that you are quoting from and neither have you addressed anthying in the post you are quoting from that I believe prove why your claims are not biblical. To me this is telling, so we will have to agree to disagree I guess.

You are free to believe as you wish as we all answer only to God come judgement day and are held accountable to God for God's Word we either accept or reject *John 12:47-48. I do not judge you as your argument I believe is with God not me. I only wish you love joy and peace in the Holy Ghost.

The wicked however according to the scriptures are like the troubled sea where there is no peace. I suggest you consider post # 143 and post # 144. All you did here is pretty much ignored these posts and all the scriptures provided in them that I believe prove your claims to be in error.

For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
 
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Victor in Christ

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Spurgeons commentary yesterday

Hosea 2:16-17
And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.

That day has come. We view our God no more as Baal, our tyrant lord and mighty master, for we are not under law, but under grace (Romans 6:14). We now think of Jehovah, our God, as our Ishi, our beloved husband, our Lord in love, our next-of-kin in bonds of sacred relationship. We do not reverence him less, but we love him more. We do not serve him less obediently, but we serve him for a higher and more endearing reason. We no longer tremble under his lash, but rejoice in his love. The slave is changed into a child, and the task into a pleasure. (Ephesians 4:30)
Is it so with thee, dear reader? Has grace cast out slavish fear and implanted filial love? How happy are we in such an experience!. Now we call the Sabbath a delight, and worship is never a weariness. Prayer is now a privilege, and praise is a holiday. To obey is heaven; to give to the cause of God is a banquet. Thus have all things become new. Our mouth is filled with singing, and our heart with music. (Ecclesiastes 5 1-3, (Psalms 122:1) Blessed be our heavenly Ishi for ever and for ever.
 
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Victor in Christ

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God does not seal those who continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief according to the scriptures are the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10.
If God's Spirit can not depart those who were once sealed if we continue in sin and unbelief why are we warned in the scriptures not to greive *EPHESIANS 4:30 and quench (means put out) the Spirit of God *1 THESSALONIANS 5:19. If we continue in known unrepentant sin Gods' Spirit is on the outside pleading with us to return to God. According to the scriptures we are only sealed with Gods' Spirit as we continue to believe and follow Gods' Word (present tense participle). Those who profess Christ or have once known God and depart the faith are no longer in the faith according to the scriptures but have greived and quenched (put out) God's Spirit and are no longer following God according to the scriptures *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10 unless they repent and by faith seek God's forgiveness.

Hope this helps.

BNR32FAN summed it up in this reply
I see the Holy Spirit sort of like a compass always pointing the way to God. He does not steer the boat. If we fall asleep at the wheel and don’t pay attention to the compass we may wake to find ourself way off course or maybe worse, shipwrecked.

Christ did say to his disciples in the upper room discourse, that when they receive another (the holy spirit), it will be from him they receive it from. We obviously aren't Christ's disciples/Apostles, neither was Paul, but we have Christ's promise of eternity and receiving the Holy Spirit is the earnest of his down-payment. Obviously, we must be on our guard that the spirit that is working within us is the Holy Spirt of God and not of our own intelligence (the spirit of Satan or of man).

I've see many Charismatic church preachers bounce on stage jumping about and then preaching. I've wondered did they earnestly seek help from God's Holy Spirt before they preached. I don't know, i pray they have. I've been very thankful for growing up in churches where the ministers and pasters prayed earnestly seeking help from God's spirit preaparing their sermon and before delivering it to the congregation, because they know within themselves their own emotions (man + Satan's spirit) might try to take over the sermon.

It's why we must always seek for God's help in every decision we make in life and ask him daily to give us help through the Lord's prayer.

I don't want to end this negatively or try to hinder Christians growing closer to God. We must be happy, rejoicing and ever thankful for this precious gift/promise of eternal life the Lord has given us. In true sincerity, the more we read the bible, meditate on it and live our lives by it, Christ makes us happy and its not an outward show t impress others. We will have valley's and periods of doubt, trouble, temptations, but Christ won't let us suffer what we can't bear and will always find a way of escape to make our pilgrim walk through this earthly life easier. We shouldn't make our Christian walk a struggle so it becomes our identity. We'll only bring other Christians down with us and sinners will look at us using 'the sinners bible' questioning, "why would i ever want to be a Christian if all they do all day is murmur, complain, strive with each other, go to the house of God to complain about what someone is wearing, what car their driving, etc, etc....?"

God Bless
 
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BNR32FAN

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If a man is in Christ and bears no fruit- He is lifted up so He can bear fruit. That is the definition of the word "airo" in the greek which we get our word aero from.

That is one definition, you didn’t post the full definition. You omitted the word “remove” from the Vine’s definition when you posted it. So forgive me for saying so but to say that lift up is the definition and then to omit the word “remove” is not exactly telling the full truth now is it?

How does your interpretation line up with this parable?


“And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?' And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So who’s translation better fits the implications of this parable as well? Yours or mine?
 
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Victor in Christ

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How does your interpretation line up with this parable?


“And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?' And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So who’s translation better fits the implications of this parable as well? Yours or mine?

sorry for butting in. I use the KJV. let the fig tree be for 3 years, dig around it, fertilize it and wait for a year, if no fruit cut it down.

Does that relate to everyone who is saved or just qualified ministers in charge of a congregation?
 
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BNR32FAN

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A person who is saved has been born from above and is a new creature (2 Cor. 5:17) and the old man has been declared dead by God! We have been translated once for all from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of the son of HIs love! Nothing can separate us from the love of God! OUr sin debt was paid in full! Even the future ones you have yet to commit! If not then you are saying that the omnipotent Jesus is not more powerful than sin and the omniscient Jesus would give someone salvation, born them from above, make them a new creature knowing that He would take their salvation away!

Yes God will give anyone every opportunity for salvation and if they turn away from Him they will have absolutely no excuse. They won’t be able to say that they weren’t given the ability to abide in Christ because God will say yes you were given the ability but you decided to throw it away and didn’t repent.
 
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BNR32FAN

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If you wish to say He doesn't take it away, but we remove it ourselves- then you are saying that Jesus blood and His resurrected glorified self is incapable of saving those the Father gave to HIm! This is what you are trying to tell everybody here. If you really believe that, I would like to introduce you to teh Jesus of teh Bible, He never lets His children stumble to destruction!

Where do you think the scriptures say this? How is John 15:6 even possible if what your saying here is true?
 
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BNR32FAN

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sorry for butting in. I use the KJV. let the fig tree be for 3 years, dig around it, fertilize it and wait for a year, if no fruit cut it down.

Does that relate to everyone who is saved or just qualified ministers in charge of a congregation?

I think this could refer to believers or everyone. I can’t really say for sure. Perhaps believers are the trees planted in the vineyard or perhaps everyone are the trees planted in the vineyard. I honestly couldn’t say for sure.
 
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Victor in Christ

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Where do you think the scriptures say this? How is John 15:6 even possible if what your saying here is true?

i'm butting in again, sorry. Deuteronomy 31:8, Deuteronomy 31:6, 1 Chronicles 28:20, Hebrews 13:5, Hebrews 13:5-6, Isaiah 41:10-13, Matthew 28:20, Philippians 4:6-7, Hebrews 13:6, Psalms 55:22, Romans 8:28,
 
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BNR32FAN

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i'm butting in again, sorry. Deuteronomy 31:8, Deuteronomy 31:6, 1 Chronicles 28:20, Hebrews 13:5, Hebrews 13:5-6, Isaiah 41:10-13, Matthew 28:20, Philippians 4:6-7, Hebrews 13:6, Psalms 55:22, Romans 8:28,

Your not butting in my friend this is an open discussion for everyone. I welcome your input. Your taking these verses out of context. Deuteronomy 31:6-8 is Moses encouraging Jacob to have faith and confidence in his attack on the Canaanites. This has absolutely nothing to do with our discussion. If what your implying about this verse were true how could anyone possible fail to abide in Christ? Obviously according to John 15:6 this does happen, so if anyone who is in Christ is incapable of turning away from Him then why does He say this in John 15:6?

1 Chronicles 28:20 is David speaking to Solomon. Did you notice what David has just said to him just a few moments before in the very same chapter?


“"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.”
‭‭1 Chronicles‬ ‭28:9‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Same chapter David is addressing Jerusalem announcing what God has told him.

“He said to me, 'Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him. I will establish his kingdom forever if he resolutely performs My commandments and My ordinances, as is done now.'”
‭‭1 Chronicles‬ ‭28:6-7‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Apparently there were conditions to staying in favor with God.

I’ll address the other scriptures in another post. I’m at work right now. Have a blessed day:)
 
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Your not butting in my friend this is an open discussion for everyone. I welcome your input. Your taking these verses out of context. Deuteronomy 31:6-8 is Moses encouraging Jacob to have faith and confidence in his attack on the Canaanites. This has absolutely nothing to do with our discussion. If what your implying about this verse were true how could anyone possible fail to abide in Christ? Obviously according to John 15:6 this does happen, so if anyone who is in Christ is incapable of turning away from Him then why does He say this in John 15:6?

1 Chronicles 28:20 is David speaking to Solomon. Did you notice what David has just said to him just a few moments before in the very same chapter?


“"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.”
‭‭1 Chronicles‬ ‭28:9‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Same chapter David is addressing Jerusalem announcing what God has told him.

“He said to me, 'Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him. I will establish his kingdom forever if he resolutely performs My commandments and My ordinances, as is done now.'”
‭‭1 Chronicles‬ ‭28:6-7‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Apparently there were conditions to staying in favor with God.

I’ll address the other scriptures in another post. I’m at work right now. Have a blessed day:)

OK. Its my belief that when the Israelites were in captivity multiple times and then delivered, they also brought along with them people from those pagan nations. When I generally look through the OT, i see Israelites falling into paganism and pagans being lead out to follow the Lord. Maybe the book of Hebrews is specifically for the Jews, but a Gentile can learn from it also.

Philippians 4:6-9, Romans 8:28. There will be many more verses. This assurance of salvation was not only for the Israelites or Jews
 
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