1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (what was Paul's intent)

AbbaLove said:

1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (Paul's intent?)

NIV 1984 translation
33b As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches.

NIV 2011 translation
33a-b For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

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1 Corinthians 14

40But everything must be done in a proper and orderly manner.

Therefore I opted for NIV 2011

AbbaLove said:

1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (Paul's intent?)

NIV 1984 translation
33b As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches.

NIV 2011 translation
33a-b For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

Click to expand...

As in all the congregations of the saints, vs as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people
I'm not seeing any difference.

Te intent...Evidently women were know to be the chatty type, so it could be as simple as they are not to do that in church.

Actually no one should be chatty, but maybe is was only the women who were a problem back then, while today it could be both genders. (covering my rear here. )

AbbaLove said:

1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (Paul's intent?)

NIV 1984 translation
33b As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches.

NIV 2011 translation
33a-b For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

Click to expand...

NIV is no doubt Holy Spirit inspired, but they tend to gender neutralize things a bit.

Many try to take this teaching and apply it to women who are not their wives or daughters. That is incorrect. No man has authourity over another man's wife, nor another man's daughter.

Nor does it restrict the orderly (cf. 1 Corinthians 14) utterances of female prophets (and there have been women who were prophets throughout the Scriptures), nor did he restrict the utterances of those women given a revelation, or who speak in a language that is being interpreted, except that all be done to build up the body of Messiah and that it is done properly and orderly.

The matter of wives in the assemblies is not a new concept. There is an order of headship, as Torah teaches in various portions. If a wife is faithful to Torah, she will seek out answers from her husband first. If a child is faithful to Torah, he or she will be taught of his or her father. Understand, all those of the faith are the children of HaShem, but, even from Him, there is an established order.

So, what happens if the husband of the household is not doing his right duty to HaShem and to his family? Has the headship changed? No. However, even the husband has a Head, Who Is HaShem Himself, as Father and Lord. He is also the Head over the husband's wife, as she is also a child of HaShem. A wife has a Head from Whom answers can be gained, in all prayer and supplication.

In addition, it is her duty and right as the wife - being echad with her husband before HaShem - to remind her husband of his proper role, to lead his household Scripturally, while still acknowledging his headship. She has a right to be led, to be taught, and, in all of this, to be loved by her husband. In Messiah, we, as His followers, are subject one to another in common in faith, not to abstain from our responsibilities towards one another. Husbands and wives have responsibilities towards each other, as designed from the very beginning by HaShem and re-affirmed by Messiah Yeshua and his talmidim.

If he does not listen, she has an Advocate, and the matter will not be ignored, when presented to Him, as the Scriptures show. As necessary, another will accompany her to correct him, and, if he still does not listen, his negligence will be brought before the congregation, all done properly and orderly.

AbbaLove said:

1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (Paul's intent?)

NIV 1984 translation
33b As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches.

NIV 2011 translation
33a-b For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

Click to expand...

I believe that Paul thought women should be silent in the congregation and learn from the men folk. But that was the culture of that time and place. However, he thought it was okay for older women to teach the younger ones.

Lady Chuza said:

I believe that Paul thought women should be silent in the congregation and learn from the men folk. But that was the culture of that time and place. However, he thought it was okay for older women to teach the younger ones.

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Quiet stillness involves everyone in a congregation.

Ears First is something that women are taught about courage.

Blessings Always

pinacled said:

Quiet stillness involves everyone in a congregation.

Ears First is something that women are taught about courage.

Blessings Always

Click to expand...

Taught about courage?

AbbaLove said:

​

Paul's mention of women in the Corinthian church and to Timothy in Ephesus (1 Timothy 2:9-15) was because those cities were known for having fertility goddesses and female dominated societies. Unlike the Jewish culture at that time Paul was not misogynistic. For example Phoebe was a woman for whom Paul had great respect (Romans 16:1-2). Phoebe is designated as a diakonos indicating that she was a "minister" from the church in Cenchrea who had been sent by that church to Rome on a special assignment. Paul recognizes her as such by using the same word for her that he uses for himself, for Barnabas and for Apollos (Galatians 3:28).

"Women are given honor in the New Covenant far beyond any works of literature from the ancient period. So, for us to take this in a literal way, or to apply it universally, as though it applied to every assembly for worship would be to interpret it in a way inconsistent with the rest of Scripture. Secondly, God’s Word is never self-contradictory. If women are to always remain silent in the assembly, how do we explain the fact that in chapter 11, verse 5, women are mentioned right along with men in the context of the proper way of praying and prophesying."
(commentary by Rabbi Glenn Harris, Shema Yisrael)​

NIV 1984 translation of 1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (also similar to: AMP, CSB, CEV, ESV, LEB, RSV)
33b As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches.
(As one sentence implying all women should remain silent in all congregations of the saints)

NIV 2011 translation of 1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (also similar to: CLV, KJV, NASB, NLT, TPT, YLT)
33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
(referring to the spiritual gifts in all congregations of the saints)

Many NIV readers previous to the newer NIV 2011 translation preferred the previous translation (e.g. 1984). However with these verses, I believe Paul would prefer the newer NIV 2011 translation over that of the previous NIV translation. The newer NIV 2011 is similar to the CLV, KJV and NASB ... not so with the earlier NIV translation (e.g. 1984) before the newer NIV 2011.

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Good information, thank you.

AbbaLove said:

​

Paul's mention of women in the Corinthian church and to Timothy in Ephesus (1 Timothy 2:9-15) was because those cities were known for having fertility goddesses and female dominated societies. Unlike the Jewish culture at that time Paul was not misogynistic. For example Phoebe was a woman for whom Paul had great respect (Romans 16:1-2). Phoebe is designated as a diakonos indicating that she was a "minister" from the church in Cenchrea who had been sent by that church to Rome on a special assignment. Paul recognizes her as such by using the same word for her that he uses for himself, for Barnabas and for Apollos (Galatians 3:28).

"Women are given honor in the New Covenant far beyond any works of literature from the ancient period. So, for us to take this in a literal way, or to apply it universally, as though it applied to every assembly for worship would be to interpret it in a way inconsistent with the rest of Scripture. Secondly, God’s Word is never self-contradictory. If women are to always remain silent in the assembly, how do we explain the fact that in chapter 11, verse 5, women are mentioned right along with men in the context of the proper way of praying and prophesying."
(commentary by Rabbi Glenn Harris, Shema Yisrael)​

NIV 1984 translation of 1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (also similar to: AMP, CSB, CEV, ESV, LEB, RSV)
33b As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches.
(As one sentence implying all women should remain silent in all congregations of the saints)

NIV 2011 translation of 1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (also similar to: CLV, KJV, NASB, NLT, TPT, YLT)
33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
(referring to the spiritual gifts in all congregations of the saints)

Many NIV readers previous to the newer NIV 2011 translation preferred the previous translation (e.g. 1984). However with these verses, I believe Paul would prefer the newer NIV 2011 translation over that of the previous NIV translation. The newer NIV 2011 is similar to the CLV, KJV and NASB ... not so with the earlier NIV translation (e.g. 1984) before the newer NIV 2011.

Click to expand...

I don't agree with him but Paul said women speaking in church is a disgrace, as it is written in the Law. Why try to pretend he didn't mean what he said?

1 Cor 14:35
And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.