CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Neogaia777

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I’m confident you know how to use a tv right? Have you ever built a tv? Have you taken the necessary courses to learn how all the electronics inside work? Or did you just read the manual that was provided?
Sorry, just now realized that you are only talking about an operations manual, my bad, which does not even compare even more so though...

Not nearly enough, etc...

An even very much poorer comparison, etc...

God Bless!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sorry, just now realized that you are only talking about an operations manual, my bad, which does not even compare even more so though...

Not nearly enough, etc...

An even very much poorer comparison, etc...

God Bless!

Sorry Neo I know this post here is to someone else but are you ok? I have no idea what your talking about or what your point is and any of the posts you have written as they do not make sense in context to what your quoting from? Did you want to explain what your issue is simply? Sorry I am having a hard time trying to follow what your posts are actually talking about.
 
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Neogaia777

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I am a pretty good auto mechanic though, and let's just say I know a lot more about about cars than people who just read the instructions manuals on how to drive them, or just covered only the bare bones base basics in maintaining them, etc...

But do I know every single thing about all cars ever, no I do not, I know more than most, but not as much as some, etc, and only people who knew everything down to every littlest thing and every single specific detail about all cars ever, would ever be able to make such a claim as 100% knowing it or knowing them fully and completely...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Sorry Neo I know this post here is to someone else but are you ok? I have no idea what your talking about or what your point is and any of the posts you have written as they do not make sense in context to what your quoting from? Did you want to explain what your issue is simply? Sorry I am having a hard time trying to follow what your posts are actually talking about.
Sorry LGW, I'm going to jump out for a while here soon, I wish I knew how to make my posts clearer, but right now I might need to step back for a bit to get some clarity, etc, K...?

Just know that I do love you guys, and wish to say to you "much love to you in Christ", K...

You guys can have the discussion back for a little while, K...

Sorry I couldn't be clearer...

God Bless!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sorry LGW, I'm going to jump out for a while here soon, I wish I knew how to make my posts clearer, but right now I might need to step back for a bit to get some clarity, etc, K...?

Just know that I do love you guys, and wish to say to you "much love to you in Christ", K...

You guys can have the discussion back for a little while, K...

Sorry I couldn't be clearer...

God Bless!
Ok no problem
 
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BNR32FAN

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Can they turn back then come back again...?

And if so, how many times can they do this...?

And if not, then when does this have to be done exactly, etc...?

And what if it was certain preaching or pastors or religious leaders or teachers that caused them to do this, etc...?

Then what, etc...?

God Bless!

2 Questions

Was Peter saved the night Jesus was arrested?

Peter denied Jesus 3 times. Would he have been saved if he continued to deny Christ?
 
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Victor in Christ

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Well Paul says that again in Ephesians 4:30 but the context is that they must not turn back to a sinful way of life otherwise they will receive the wrath of God and have no inheritance in the kingdom of heaven.

Obviously Jesus predicts Judas as his betrayer during the passage below in John 13. Do the verses i quoted below go a little further in detail suggesting that Jesus also predicts to the rest of his disciples after he dies and is risen they will receive the Holy Spirit at the day of Pentecost?

John 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am [he]. 20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

There are also other verses in the bible that relate to this section of scripture, Judas and the marriage supper with Christ in heaven (Psalms 41:1-13, Matthew 26:17-25, Mark 14:12-21, Luke 22:7-13) , but in John's Gospel, there seems to be more information for the disciples who would remain faithful.
 
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Obviously Jesus predicts Judas as his betrayer during the passage below in John 13. Do the verses i quoted below go a little further in detail suggesting that Jesus also predicts to the rest of his disciples after he dies and is risen they will receive the Holy Spirit at the day of Pentecost?



There are also other verses in the bible that relate to this section of scripture. Psalms 41:1-13, Matthew 26:17-25, Mark 14:12-21, Luke 22:7-13

Receiving Christ is not the only requirement for salvation we must also abide/remain in Him in order to receive it.


“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Here Jesus makes it clear that His 11 faithful apostles are capable of failing to abide in Him. Tho they will never lose the guidance of the Holy Spirit, He will always be urging them to turn back to Christ if they should stray but ultimately the decision is up to them to make.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Obviously Jesus predicts Judas as his betrayer during the passage below in John 13. Do the verses i quoted below go a little further in detail suggesting that Jesus also predicts to the rest of his disciples after he dies and is risen they will receive the Holy Spirit at the day of Pentecost?



There are also other verses in the bible that relate to this section of scripture, Judas and the marriage supper with Christ in heaven (Psalms 41:1-13, Matthew 26:17-25, Mark 14:12-21, Luke 22:7-13) , but in John's Gospel, there seems to be more information for the disciples who would remain faithful.

Here’s another example.


“It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Did Paul and Timothy possess the indwelling Holy Spirit when Paul said this?
 
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Victor in Christ

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Here’s another example.


“It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Did Paul and Timothy possess the indwelling Holy Spirit when Paul said this?

Paul teaching Timothy in grace and perseverance

Paul certainly did. Its my belief Paul new Timothy did also and was instructing Timothy how to teach the early church that Christ won't leave us even when we have doubts he will. If we reject him, that's it. We're doomed and we've never received the holy spirit.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Paul teaching Timothy in grace and perseverance

Paul certainly did. Its my belief Paul new Timothy did also and was instructing Timothy how to teach the early church that Christ won't leave us even when we have doubts he will. If we reject him, that's it. We're doomed and we've never received the holy spirit.

The context here is that this message is to edify Timothy. Sure Timothy will pass on this knowledge but the letter is written to Timothy and the context of this message is directed to Timothy.


“You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier. Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:1-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

And not only this but Paul includes even himself in this statement. So this not only applies to new believers but Paul and Timothy as well.

Paul said if WE deny Him He will deny US. It’s a letter from Paul to Timothy.
 
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Victor in Christ

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The context here is that this message is to edify Timothy. Sure Timothy will pass on this knowledge but the letter is written to Timothy and the context of this message is directed to Timothy.


“You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier. Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:1-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

And not only this but Paul includes even himself in this statement. So this not only applies to new believers but Paul and Timothy as well.

Paul said if WE deny Him He will deny US. It’s a letter from Paul to Timothy.

very true.

"No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier."

This part of the passage is extremely relevant in our day. The struggles in this world through Satan's devices can trip us up if we're not on our guard. It even reminds me of the 'man of God' in 1 Kings 13 who was even deceived by the old prophet of Bethel.
 
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BNR32FAN

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very true.

"No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier."

This part of the passage is extremely relevant in our day. The struggles in this world through Satan's devices can trip us up if we're not on our guard. It even reminds me of the 'man of God' in 1 Kings 13 who was even deceived by the old prophet of Bethel.

ok but you skipped post 128.
 
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Victor in Christ

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Receiving Christ is not the only requirement for salvation we must also abide/remain in Him in order to receive it.


“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Here Jesus makes it clear that His 11 faithful apostles are capable of failing to abide in Him. Tho they will never lose the guidance of the Holy Spirit, He will always be urging them to turn back to Christ if they should stray but ultimately the decision is up to them to make.



When Jesus was explaining this to the disciples, they hadn't witnessed the crucifixtion, the appearance of his resurrected body, etc. They were being told by Christ at this time to keep faith in him. They remembered Christ promised them another in the form of the Holy Spirit. That hadn't happened until Pentecost. It was then they were all truly convinced he was the Messiah of the new heavens and new earth and were his elect from the beginning (arché).

v 26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.(arché)

continuing on into chapter 16

Jesus' Warning to the disciples v 1-4
The Holy Spirit Promised v 5-16
The Disciples' Grief will Turn to Joy v 17-22
Ask and You will Receive 23-29

chapter 17

Prayer for the Son v 1-5
Prayer for the Disciples v 6-19
Prayer for all Believers v 20-26
 
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When Jesus was explaining this to the disciples, they hadn't witnessed the crucifixtion, the appearance of his resurrected body, etc. They were being told by Christ at this time to keep faith in him. They remembered Christ promised them another in the form of the Holy Spirit. That hadn't happened until Pentecost. It was then they were all truly convinced he was the Messiah of the new heavens and new earth and were his elect from the beginning (arché).

v 26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.(arché)

continuing on into chapter 16

Jesus' Warning to the disciples v 1-4
The Holy Spirit Promised v 5-16
The Disciples' Grief will Turn to Joy v 17-22
Ask and You will Receive 23-29

chapter 17

Prayer for the Son v 1-5
Prayer for the Disciples v 6-19
Prayer for all Believers v 20-26


“He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:15-17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

They already knew who Jesus was before the last supper.
 
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nolidad

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Hi Nolidad nice to see you again. The scriptures you have provided above are easy to respond to. Not one of them say that a believer cannot depart the faith, return back to a life of known unrepentant sin or that salvation is not conditional on believing and following Gods' Word.

The context to all the scriptures you have provided is to "BELIEVERS" (present tense) conditional on believing, not "UNBELIEVERS" to unbeliving or those who have "DEPARTED THE FAITH" to return to a life of known unrepentant sin who choose to reject God's Word when they have been given a knowledge of the truth. The context of the scriptures you have provided are to the believers so do not support any of the claims you have made. Context matters and this is the context of everyone of the scriptures you have provided in your post.

Yet it is God's Word alone (not mine) that says within context that Gods' salvation is conditional (not me) and that those who where once believers and depart the faith and continue in known unrepentant sin do not enter into God's kingdom (not me)...

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, AND WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], AND HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFRESH, AND PUT HIM TO AN OPEN SHAME. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; WHOSE END IS TO BE BURNED.

links also to...

HEBREWS 10:26-39
[26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES. [28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29], OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YOU, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WITH WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, AN UNHOLY THING, AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? [30], For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [31], IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD. [32], But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great fight of afflictions; [33], Partly, whilst you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst you became companions of them that were so used. [34], For you had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that you have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. [35], Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense of reward. [36], For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise. [37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.[38], NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. [39], But we are not of them who draw back to perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Context matters....

Hope this is helpful.

Yes context does matter!
And what you are concluding is that Jesus death did not cover all teh sins of one who turned to HIm in faith!

You are saying that jesus gives conditional probationary eternal life.

YOu are adding to the SCripture when Jesus says they shall never perish (and then you say unless.....)

Sorry but you depreciate the very blood that has redeemed you!

If you did a language study of teh two major verses all those who believe th elie they can lose thier salvation (Heb. 6&10) You would find a totally different meaning than the English translation APPEAR to give (and it is an appearance only)

So Even though Jesus is keeping us until the day of REdemption, if a person has a season of sin- He is not powerful enough to keep them saved! WOW!

Even though God has declared us dead and our life hidden with Christ in God- you say we can resurrect ourself and tear away the salvation the blood Jesus shed paid for us!

May you experience (though I wish it not) a season of deep sin and learn that even in the midst of that season- you are still loved, still forgiven and you name still written in the book of lif of the Lamb!

Sorry but no where does the Bible say that one who has been born again can become un-born again! And to follow you in misquoting SCripture, if one could lose their salvation- they can't get it back again.

So much for God loving us so much more now that we are His dear children.

Go and learn this:

Romans 5
King James Version

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


We are not saved by works, nor do we maintain our salvation by a lack of bad works!
 
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Victor in Christ

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“He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:15-17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

They already knew who Jesus was before the last supper.

informative. i must say that Christ predicted they would have troubles, doubts, even Peter would deny him thrice....and then they truly knew they were of Christ's seed at the day of Pentecost. They also knew they would suffer much in this world preaching he was the Christ, even suffer the penalty of death preaching that people must seek the kingdom of God/heaven, just like Christ did. (kingdom of God and Heaven is used interchangably in the bible).

Like the words of Spurgeon, "We must first look to him, and then look for him"

The disciples looked to him, but never truly looked for him until they waited in Jerusalem for the comforter he would sent in the form of the Holy Spirit. It was then they truly knew.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yes context does matter!
And what you are concluding is that Jesus death did not cover all teh sins of one who turned to HIm in faith!

You are saying that jesus gives conditional probationary eternal life.

YOu are adding to the SCripture when Jesus says they shall never perish (and then you say unless.....)

Sorry but you depreciate the very blood that has redeemed you!

If you did a language study of teh two major verses all those who believe th elie they can lose thier salvation (Heb. 6&10) You would find a totally different meaning than the English translation APPEAR to give (and it is an appearance only)

So Even though Jesus is keeping us until the day of REdemption, if a person has a season of sin- He is not powerful enough to keep them saved! WOW!

Even though God has declared us dead and our life hidden with Christ in God- you say we can resurrect ourself and tear away the salvation the blood Jesus shed paid for us!

May you experience (though I wish it not) a season of deep sin and learn that even in the midst of that season- you are still loved, still forgiven and you name still written in the book of lif of the Lamb!

Sorry but no where does the Bible say that one who has been born again can become un-born again! And to follow you in misquoting SCripture, if one could lose their salvation- they can't get it back again.

So much for God loving us so much more now that we are His dear children.

Go and learn this:

Romans 5
King James Version

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


We are not saved by works, nor do we maintain our salvation by a lack of bad works!

What about those who do not abide/remain in Christ?


“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
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nolidad

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What about those who do not abide/remain in Christ?


“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Glad you quoted that verse!

Branches in Christ- are in Christ! If they bear no fruit? He taketh away!

taketh away:

airō Αἶρε — 3x
αἴρει — 8x
αἴρεις — 2x
αἴρεται — 1x
αἴρετε — 1x
αἰρόμενον — 1x
αἴροντός — 1x
αἴροντος — 1x
αἴρων — 2x
αἴρωσιν — 1x
ἆραί — 1x
ἆραι — 5x
ἄραντες — 2x
ἄρας — 6x
ἄρατε — 3x
Ἄρατε — 3x
ἀράτω — 4x
ἄρῃ — 5x
ἄρῃς — 1x
ἀρθήσεται — 6x
Ἄρθητι — 2x
ἀρθήτω — 1x
ἀρθῶσιν — 1x
ἆρόν — 1x
ἆρον — 6x
Ἆρον — 3x
ἀροῦσίν — 2x
ἀροῦσιν — 2x
ἀρῶ — 1x
ἦραν — 10x
Ἦραν — 2x
ἤρατε — 3x
ἦρεν — 6x
ἤρθη — 3x
ἦρκεν — 1x
ἠρμένον — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: take up (32x), take away (25x), take (25x), away with (5x), lift up (4x), bear (3x), miscellaneous (8x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to raise up, elevate, lift up

    1. to raise from the ground, take up: stones

    2. to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
It should be translated as lifts up!

In Jesus day, grapes were not grown in strings or arbors. They were grown and spread along the ground! If a branch was not producing, the farmer would take stones and lift the branch off the ground so that it would bear fruit!

Now look at teh branches NOT IN Christ

They are cut down and put into the fire!

In Christ- lifted up so they can bear fruit!

Not in Christ? cut down and burned.

In Christ and bearing fruit? Pruned so the leaves and branches that we call suckers are taken away so that branch can produce even more fruit!

This is actually a picture of eternal security and the gracious care of God

But what about those who leave the faith? Were they saved and then lost their salvation? The Bible says no, But he Bible does say about them:

Matt. 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

While gorwing teh tares (unsaved) look like wheat but it is not until harvest nears that one can tell the difference.

Another place:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Another place:

Matt. 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice what Jesus says to those who may have looked like Beleivers? I NEVER KNEW YOU!
e did not say, I knew you once but don't know you now, but He never had a relationship with them.

Why demean the blood of Jesus by saying His blood was unable to forgive ALL your sins?
 
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and then they truly knew they were of Christ's seed at the day of Pentecost

“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:15‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:19‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6-9‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:30‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
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