What do Messianics believe?

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All Messianic Jews believe the Shema.

All Christians should believe in the Shema; as Yahshua recited it as the foremost precept.

(CLV) MarK 12: 28-30
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept."
 
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pinacled

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All Christians should believe in the Shema; as Yahshua recited it as the foremost precept.

(CLV) MarK 12: 28-30
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept."
What then is there to say about the torah teachers(scribes) response in verse 33?


[ One of the Torah-teachers came up and heard them engaged in this discussion. Seeing that Yeshua answered them well, he asked him, “Which is the most important mitzvah of them all?” 29 Yeshua answered, “The most important is,

Sh’ma Yisra’el, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad [Hear, O Isra’el, theLord our God, the Lord is one], 30 and you are to love Adonai your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your understanding and with all your strength.’

31 The second is this:

‘You are to love your neighbor as yourself.’

There is no other mitzvah greater than these.”
32 The Torah-teacher said to him, “Well said, Rabbi; you speak the truth when you say that he is one, and that there is no other besides him;

33 and that loving him with all one’s heart, understanding and strength, and loving one’s neighbor as oneself, mean more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices.” ]
 
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What then is there to say about the torah teachers(scribes) response in verse 33?

Shabbat shalom Pinacled.

(CLV) Mk 12:34
And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered apprehendingly, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God." And not one dared to inquire of Him any longer.
 
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pinacled

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Shabbat shalom Pinacled.

(CLV) Mk 12:34
And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered apprehendingly, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God." And not one dared to inquire of Him any longer.
What does the acronym (CLV) represent?
The above underlined isn't even in the english language as a definitive word.

Compared to sensible used per the cjb and discrete used per kjv having clarity.

The clv is very suspect
 
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What does the acronym (CLV) represent?
The above underlined isn't even in the english language as a definitive word.

Compared to sensible used per the cjb and discrete used per kjv having clarity.

The clv is very suspect

CLV stands for Concordant Literal Version. There are valuable characteristics of this version. One of them, is that it claims to translate the same Greek, or Hebrew, word, the same way, each time. I have however, caught a few mistakes. Another valuable feature, is that the CLV tends to conform to textual criticism. Again, Ive caught a few flaws.

All that said, I still don't put much trust in Bible translations.

OH! P.S. It tends to be a literal translation.
 
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TexFire316

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Sorry. It's top secret. If we tell you, then...well, you know.
We, I still say we, even though I'm not with them any more, believe that the Bible, all of the Bible is still relevent today as in the times of Jesus. Except, we don't have a temple. But Jesus is taking care of that part.
We believe in the Trinity. The Holy Spirit (the One whoe is inside us), convicts, prods and points us to Jesus. Jesus paid the debt to get us to the Father.
We don't drink grape juice, but real wine. We don't sleep with our neighbor's wife, but we can dance with her if her husband approves.
What the Bible calls sin, we call sin. What the church calls sin, we laugh.
We are a full mixture of people that came from other denominations, so sometimes that background still comes out in teachings.
Remember. We are still imperfect people, living on a sinful earth, trying to worship a Holy God.
 
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pinacled

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CLV stands for Concordant Literal Version. There valuable characteristics of this version. One of them, is that it claims to translate the same Greek, or Hebrew, word, the same way, each time. I have however, caught a few mistakes. Another valuable feature, is that the CLV tends to conform to textual criticism. Again, Ive caught a few flaws.

All that said, I still don't put much trust in Bible translations.
I could find no such clv translation as you cited.

What then of the question I proposed earlier about the torah teachers response.
Particularly the underlined.
As per the op having questions about what messianics believe. Its pertinent.

[ The Torah-teacher said to him, “Well said, Rabbi; you speak the truth when you say that he is one, and that there is no other besides him;

33 and that loving him with all one’s heart, understanding and strength, and loving one’s neighbor as oneself, mean more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices.” ]
 
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33 and that loving him with all one’s heart, understanding and strength, and loving one’s neighbor as oneself, mean more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices.” ]

If you won't accept Yahshua's answer; why would you accept mine?
 
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pinacled

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If you won't accept Yahshua's answer; why would you accept mine?
I know very well what The shepherd of my soul Yeshua has taught.
Especially about burnt offerings and sacrifices.

[ And he began to speak unto them by parables.
A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.

2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.

3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.

4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.

5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.

6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.

7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.'

8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
]
 
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I know very well what The shepherd of my soul Yeshua has taught.
Especially about burnt offerings and sacrifices.

(CLV) Mt 21:13
And He is saying to them, "It is written, My house a house of prayer shall be called,' yet you are making it a burglars' cave."


(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."


(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
 
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pinacled

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(CLV) Mt 21:13
And He is saying to them, "It is written, My house a house of prayer shall be called,' yet you are making it a burglars' cave."


(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."


(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

20 Bible verses about Thanking God For Food
 
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pinacled

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(CLV) Mt 21:13
And He is saying to them, "It is written, My house a house of prayer shall be called,' yet you are making it a burglars' cave."


(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."


(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
Yeshayahu is speaking of a specific altar where the congregation is sealed by The Ruach Hakodesh.

Just as Yeshua taught,
Matthew 5:44
Luke 6:28

Pray for those that despise fully use you.....
 
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HARK!

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Yeshayahu is speaking of a specific altar where the congregation is sealed by The Ruach Hakodesh.

Just as Yeshua taught,
Matthew 5:44
Luke 6:28

Pray for those that despise fully use you.....

This subject could dominate this thread.

It would be more polite to the OP to discuss this subject here: Sacrifices in the Kingdom to Come
 
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pinacled

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I’m interested in Messianic Judism/law keeping.
Few questions:
Does Jesus save you through His death alone? As seen in Romans
Do you believe the Trinity?
Is there any laws from the OT that you do not keep, such as eating unclean foods, mixed fabrics, etc...
The distinction between 2 altars along with a promise reveals a mountain unchanged by human hands.
Where at Sinai's mount there was force used inordinately by the Israel(hagar) below,.
Above was another altar of promise where Faith proved a womans joy to be fruitful.

If only a shevat shabbat were to hold value amongst friends.

Shabbat Shalom
 
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I’m interested in Messianic Judism/law keeping.
Few questions:
Does Jesus save you through His death alone? As seen in Romans
Do you believe the Trinity?
Is there any laws from the OT that you do not keep, such as eating unclean foods, mixed fabrics, etc...

If our obedience to the Torah were for God's good, then it would have been about trying to earn our salvation through our best efforts, however, it was given for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so our obedience is instead about putting our faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live. Every example of someone living by faith is also an example of someone living in obedience to God's will, such as with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11, whereas disobedience to the Torah is referred to as breaking faith, such as in Numbers 5:6. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept the commandments of God are the same as those who kept faith in Jesus. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Torah. In 2 Timothy 3:8, those who oppose Moses also oppose the truth, being of corrupted minds and disqualified in regard to the faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds the Torah. In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so doing good works in obedience to the Torah is what faith looks like. God is trustworthy, so His Torah is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7, Nehemiah 9:13), and a Torah that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so to put our faith in the Torah is to put our faith in the One who gave it, while to say that the Torah is not of faith is to deny the faithfulness of the One who gave it. Only those who have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey His Torah and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the Torah will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by obeying the Torah. God can be trusted to set us up for success, not for failure.

In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, in Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Torah, and in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what the Torah was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to do good works in obedience to His Torah is itself part of the content of His free gift of salvation, and participating in that training does nothing to earn it, but rather that is what it looks like to receive it. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of the Torah (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God’s Torah through faith is what Jesus saving us from living in transgression of the Torah looks like. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what Jesus accomplished on the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20).

I believe in the divinity of Jesus. God alone is our Savior (Isaiah 43:11), so either Jesus is God or He is not our Savior. When light hits an someone, they adsorb certain spectrums of light so that we do not actually see them, but the spectrums of light that have bounced off of them, yet we still recognize what we see as being them. This is analogous to the relationship that the Son has with the Father, where the Son is the light that we see when we look at the Father such that the Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15). The Son is the radiance of God's glory and exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3) and what that looked like was sinless obedience to the Torah, so the Torah is God's instructions for how to express His nature, and Jesus is the personification of the Torah, which is why the Torah testifies about him (John 5:39-40). Being a child of God is about being a chip off the old block, where we act as a light and a blessing to the nations through testifying about who He is by putting His nature on display. Everything that Jesus did testified about who the Father is by putting His nature on display, which is why He is the Son of God, and why he could say that whoever has seen him as seen the Father (John 14:9). We can also be children of God when we partake in the divine nature in obedience to the Torah, while in 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Torah are not children of God because they are not testifying to the nations about God's nature.

Even when the Torah was first give to Moses, there wasn't a single person who was required to obey every single law, and not even Jesus obeyed the laws in regard to giving birth or to having a period. Some laws were only for the King, the High Priest, priests, judges, men, women, children, widows, those who are married, those with servants, those with animals, those with crops, those with tzaraat, those living in the land, and those who are strangers living among them, while others were given to everyone. So determining how the Torah applies to us today is a matter of careful study, prayer, and the leading of the Spirit. David said repeatedly throughout the Psalms that he loved the Torah and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Torah, then we will share it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22). So if we have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live and believe that His Torah is for our own good, then we will have the attitude of looking for reasons for why we can have the delight of getting to follow the Torah rather than the attitude of looking for excuses to avoid following God's guidance.
 
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AbbaLove

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Almost certainly there is varied understanding of the Shema among Messianics. Believing in something and explaining it are not necessarily the same thing, however. We can each read and believe something, while coming up with 7 different interpretations of it.
Messianic Shema: Listen, Hear, Pray
But Samuel replied, “What is more pleasing to the LORD: your burnt offerings and sacrifices or your obedience to His Voice? Listen! Obedience is better than sacrifice, and submission is better than offering the fat of rams.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

"Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God."​
 
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pinacled

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Messianic Shema: Listen, Hear, Pray
But Samuel replied, “What is more pleasing to the LORD: your burnt offerings and sacrifices or your obedience to His Voice? Listen! Obedience is better than sacrifice, and submission is better than offering the fat of rams.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

"Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God."​
Give a portion to 7 and 8
 
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AbbaLove

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(CLV) Mk 12:34
And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered apprehendingly, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God." And not one dared to inquire of Him any longer.
I could find no such clv translation as you cited.

33 and that loving him with all one’s heart, understanding and strength, and loving one’s neighbor as oneself, mean more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
As if there aren't enough Bible translations already, but if you like a translation that uses "Elohim" in place of God, then the CLV might be just what you're looking for in a translation. IMO, it provides an interesting comparison to other translations ... www.concordant.org/

Mark 12:33-34 (CLV) ... https://studybible.info/version/CLV
33 And to be loving Him out of your whole heart, and out of the whole understanding, and out of the whole soul, and out of the whole strength, and to be loving the associate as yourself, is excessively more than all the ascent approaches and the sacrifices."
34 And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered apprehendingly, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God. And no one dared to inquire of Him any longer."​
 
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Mark 12:33-34 (CLV) ... https://studybible.info/version/CLV
33 And to be loving Him out of your whole heart, and out of the whole understanding, and out of the whole soul, and out of the whole strength, and to be loving the associate as yourself, is excessively more than all the ascent approaches and the sacrifices."
34 And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered apprehendingly, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God. And no one dared to inquire of Him any longer."

The Shema is the foremost precept; but if we throw out the rest of YHWH's perfect torah; we have failed to keep the Shema.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,
 
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