{MOVED} will Christians be taken away to Jesus before the mark of the beast is here

ViaCrucis said:

The mark of the beast is like these, it represents one's loyalties and allegiance to the beast. In the same way that the seal of God upon us isn't literal mark upon our body (though we truly were sealed with the Holy Spirit through our Baptism and faith in the Gospel), it wouldn't be accurate to say that the beast's mark is a literal mark--something etched upon the flesh or a brand or some such thing. It is a statement of belonging and possession.

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On the contrary, the mark of the beast points to being something literal and physical. The greek word for mark is G5480 charagma and can refer to a scratch or etching.

If you are to etch or engrave on a surface of some kind, it is obvious you have cut into the surface of said material.

jasonMalloy1999 said:

Then I'm screwed as well have ashma and my mother has COPD and that means we can't breath with masks so no plus the mark is you have to have the mark to but or sell things

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Don't you realize that we Christians do not have to take the 'mark'?
Read Revelation 12:6-17 to see this.

No, we won't and will be tested to see if we are in the faith. That's what it will be all about! It won't matter then what denomination you are, just do you believe/trust in Jesus and His word. No secret Christians then. If you don't believe the mark will be real, you are already setting yourself up to be deceived.

1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

I know when the Lord will come back too... It will be on the feast of trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) about two years after the AD/idol is set up in Jerusalem on the Temple mount. Just count it down when you see the AD, and watch for the signs in the sky. This is when the parousia (Mat 24, Rev 6-coming, presence) will happen. Jesus teaches us this in Mat 24.

The Day of the Lord follows and will run 1 year and 10 days (trumpets and bowls) and then Jesus will take possession of the kingdom (Rev 19-20, Mat. 25), this will be on the day of atonement. Therefore Jesus fulfills the fall feasts, just like He did the Spring feasts. This is key. These are "appointed days", so it has to be on these.

If you want to know why I know the day and hour, read "The Last Shofar", by Lenard and Zoller. It will answer all your questions. A sneak peak is it was a well know expression in Jesus' day, an idiom. A hidden day, but the Jewish folk knew what He was talking about. It would be like us saying turkey day is going to be soon- in the USA, or Santa is coming soon. We know when these days are. Same thing.

15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17“Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18“Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20“But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22“Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25“Behold, I have told you in advance. 26“So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

8For the LORD has a day of vengeance,
A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

7‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Who we going to trust??? Jesus or men?

alertandawake said:

On the contrary, the mark of the beast points to being something literal and physical. The greek word for mark is G5480 charagma and can refer to a scratch or etching.

If you are to etch or engrave on a surface of some kind, it is obvious you have cut into the surface of said material.

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So, is the mark of God literal also?

sovereigngrace said:

So, is the mark of God literal also?

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3There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. 13‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

I will write
γράψω (grapsō)
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 1125: A primary verb; to 'grave', especially to write; figuratively, to describe.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition
to write
NASB Translation
read (1), sent this letter (1), write (37), writes (1), writing (14), written (117), wrote (20).


Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1125: γράφω

γράφω; (imperfect ἔγραφον); future γράψω; 1 aorist ἔγραψα; perfect γέγραφα; passive (present γράφομαι); perfect γεγραμμαι; (pluperfect 3 person singular ἐγέγραπτο, Revelation 17:8 Lachmann); 2 aorist ἐγράφην; (properly, to grave, scrape, scratch, engrave; cf. German graben,eingraben; γραψεν δέ οἱ ὀστέον ἄχρις αἰχμή, Homer, Iliad 17, 599; σηματα γράψας ἐν πίνακι, ibid. 6, 169; hence, to draw letters), to write;

The Mark of the Beast Rev. 13:
a mark
χάραγμα (charagma)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 5480: Sculpture; engraving, a stamp, sign. From the same as charax; a scratch or etching, i.e. Stamp, or scupltured figure.

Strong's Concordance
charagma: a stamp, impress
Original Word: χάραγμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charagma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ag-mah)
Definition: a stamp, impress
Usage: sculpture; engraving, a stamp, sign.
HELPS Word-studies
5480 xáragma – properly, an engraving (etching); (figuratively) a mark providing undeniable identification, like a symbol giving irrefutable connection between parties.

5480 /xáragma ("brand-mark") was originally any impress on a coin or a seal, used by an engraver on a die (stamp, branding iron). 5480 (xáragma) later became "the identification-marker" (like with an owner's unique "brand-mark").

[Ancient documents were validated by such stamps or seals (see Plutarch, Agesilaus, 15:6; De Lysandro 16:2, ala DNTT, 2, 574).]

Running2win said:

3There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. 13‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

I will write
γράψω (grapsō)
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 1125: A primary verb; to 'grave', especially to write; figuratively, to describe.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition
to write
NASB Translation
read (1), sent this letter (1), write (37), writes (1), writing (14), written (117), wrote (20).


Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1125: γράφω

γράφω; (imperfect ἔγραφον); future γράψω; 1 aorist ἔγραψα; perfect γέγραφα; passive (present γράφομαι); perfect γεγραμμαι; (pluperfect 3 person singular ἐγέγραπτο, Revelation 17:8 Lachmann); 2 aorist ἐγράφην; (properly, to grave, scrape, scratch, engrave; cf. German graben,eingraben; γραψεν δέ οἱ ὀστέον ἄχρις αἰχμή, Homer, Iliad 17, 599; σηματα γράψας ἐν πίνακι, ibid. 6, 169; hence, to draw letters), to write;

The Mark of the Beast Rev. 13:
a mark
χάραγμα (charagma)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 5480: Sculpture; engraving, a stamp, sign. From the same as charax; a scratch or etching, i.e. Stamp, or scupltured figure.

Strong's Concordance
charagma: a stamp, impress
Original Word: χάραγμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charagma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ag-mah)
Definition: a stamp, impress
Usage: sculpture; engraving, a stamp, sign.
HELPS Word-studies
5480 xáragma – properly, an engraving (etching); (figuratively) a mark providing undeniable identification, like a symbol giving irrefutable connection between parties.

5480 /xáragma ("brand-mark") was originally any impress on a coin or a seal, used by an engraver on a die (stamp, branding iron). 5480 (xáragma) later became "the identification-marker" (like with an owner's unique "brand-mark").

[Ancient documents were validated by such stamps or seals (see Plutarch, Agesilaus, 15:6; De Lysandro 16:2, ala DNTT, 2, 574).]

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Is God literally writing His name on His elect - yes or no?

Running2win said:

No, we won't and will be tested to see if we are in the faith. That's what it will be all about! It won't matter then what denomination you are, just do you believe/trust in Jesus and His word. No secret Christians then. If you don't believe the mark will be real, you are already setting yourself up to be deceived.

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This is the very problem I am seeing today. And I think a good many of people want to take the easy way out.

If all the righteous people were to be raptured before the mark of the beast, then who then needs to be convinced they need to accept it? So all those people who have been conditioned to accept the mark of the beast, or have already accepted the mark of the beast, do they need convincing to accept something they already have agreed to?

24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25“Behold, I have told you in advance. 26“So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

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You know, there must be something very special about the elect, note the wording, "so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect". Now I could be in error, but the way how I understand this, the elect cannot be deceived because they must know something or have a good understanding of the enemy, how they think and what methods of deception the enemy uses.

In this day and age of grand deception, the people who get misled are the ones who continuously refuse to use the brain they were given to think for themselves, to see if what they have been told is true. In my opinion the ones who do accept the mark of the beast is going to be related to this very concept "blind faith". Because all I see today is a form of psychological conditioning where people are being taught to believe automatically what they are told, rather than spend the time and verify to see if what they have been told is correct.

If one carefully looks at the description given in Rev 13:16-17 the description given to those who are in a position that they cannot buy or sell, it sounds like said people have been isolated or cut off from buying or selling unless they comply with a certain requirement.

sovereigngrace said:

Is God literally writing His name on His elect - yes or no?

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Yes! For sure! In the lingo of today We will tatted up for God and Jesus! It will show ownership. We are already slaves, right? That's what the words mean.

alertandawake said:

In this day and age of grand deception, the people who get misled are the ones who continuously refuse to use the brain they were given to think for themselves, to see if what they have been told is true. In my opinion the ones who do accept the mark of the beast is going to be related to this very concept "blind faith". Because all I see today is a form of psychological conditioning where people are being taught to believe automatically what they are told, rather than spend the time and verify to see if what they have been told is correct.

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Except this deception is the very knowledge humans teach themselves. The more they know and understand, the more deceived humanity becomes.

This relates to those who are leaving. The more a human trusts God, the less they trust human wisdom and understanding. Those who trust God are going to be removed first. It is not about righteousness.

Some humans will always be skeptical about human authority and what governments think are best for the governed. When it comes to the mark, 666, the skeptics will be the ones who are "saved".

alertandawake said:

This is the very problem I am seeing today. And I think a good many of people want to take the easy way out.

If all the righteous people were to be raptured before the mark of the beast, then who then needs to be convinced they need to accept it? So all those people who have been conditioned to accept the mark of the beast, or have already accepted the mark of the beast, do they need convincing to accept something they already have agreed to?




You know, there must be something very special about the elect, note the wording, "so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect". Now I could be in error, but the way how I understand this, the elect cannot be deceived because they must know something or have a good understanding of the enemy, how they think and what methods of deception the enemy uses.

In this day and age of grand deception, the people who get misled are the ones who continuously refuse to use the brain they were given to think for themselves, to see if what they have been told is true. In my opinion the ones who do accept the mark of the beast is going to be related to this very concept "blind faith". Because all I see today is a form of psychological conditioning where people are being taught to believe automatically what they are told, rather than spend the time and verify to see if what they have been told is correct.

If one carefully looks at the description given in Rev 13:16-17 the description given to those who are in a position that they cannot buy or sell, it sounds like said people have been isolated or cut off from buying or selling unless they comply with a certain requirement.

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Yes, I agree. People know of the truth, but they don't know the truth. And for sure the elect will not be deceived. They have the Holy Spirit in them and are His sheep.

On the other hand, there are plenty of nominal Christians that are following Christ for various reasons, but have no new birth. The great trib will weed them out and there will be no where to hide then.

It is these people that will take the mark when the deluding influence is sent by God Himself. These will be the foolish virgins without oil, and it looks like 1/2 of all professing Christians could be in this boat, if we take what Jesus taught at face value. That is why we have to know the truth NOW, and make sure we are in the faith NOW.

8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

1“Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2“Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3“For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5“Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. 6“But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7“Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8“The foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9“But the prudent answered, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’ 10“And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. 11“Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open up for us.’ 12“But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13“Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

Running2win said:

Yes! For sure! In the lingo of today We will tatted up for God and Jesus! It will show ownership. We are already slaves, right? That's what the words mean.

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You don't seem to grasp figurative language or apocalyptic genre. This error results in Premil.

Running2win said:

10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

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You know, when I think about it, the above seems to describe people who are in a constant state of denial, such people cannot accept reality, and this would explain why people cannot accept the truth when it becomes clearly obvious.

It is as if the truth is become too much for their minds to comprehend, it is easier to be in a state of denial rather than accept reality.

sovereigngrace said:

You don't seem to grasp figurative language or apocalyptic genre. This error results in Premil.

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I grasp it, I just don't think all has to figurative, it's a common sense thing, a context thing, and a spiritual thing.

To the unsaved, the Bible does not make much sense, but to a born again believer, the Spirit guides us into all truth-unless we are holding to dogma that is not the truth and we are not willing to be corrected, then we fall into error. That's what was wrong with the leaders of Jesus' day, they just would not accept the truth even though they could see it plainly.

For example, of course we are not going to become a "pillar" in the Temple of God, this is a figure of speech. But there is no reason to take God writing His ownership signature on us, and where we live, and the new name He gives us as real. The words mean this. This will identify us with who we belong to-our God, where we live, and allow us to move freely, and it will be a badge of honor for us

In the same way it will be for those who take the mark of the Beast. It will identify you with Beast or AC- that this is your God, allow you to move freely and buy and sell goods, but you will take part of the plagues in Rev, and confirm and seal your destiny- which is not Heaven.

This will all be real. We just have not seen it yet. Make no mistake, the mark of the Beast will be connected to worshiping this man that will look like he rises from the dead. Satan has his man, just like God has His man-Jesus. Satan always wanted to take Gods place, and this is his plan. If we take the mark we are worshiping Satan-the dragon.

That is why we have to know the real Jesus beforehand, believe in the truth of the bodily resurrection of Jesus that happened 2000 years ago, and trust His word-by faith, not sight. Cause if we are a fence sitter at the time he comes on the scene, we will believe our eyes and take the mark. The Bible makes it pretty clear:

3I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”

8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. 9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

alertandawake said:

You know, when I think about it, the above seems to describe people who are in a constant state of denial, such people cannot accept reality, and this would explain why people cannot accept the truth when it becomes clearly obvious.

It is as if the truth is become too much for their minds to comprehend, it is easier to be in a state of denial rather than accept reality.

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The evil one has them blinded from the truth-as it was for all of us, until we put our faith and trust in Jesus. It takes the new birth to really understand truth, and then we have to be willing to study and be corrected. This takes discipline and a teachable spirit.

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Running2win said:

I grasp it, I just don't think all has to figurative, it's a common sense thing, a context thing, and a spiritual thing.

To the unsaved, the Bible does not make much sense, but to a born again believer, the Spirit guides us into all truth-unless we are holding to dogma that is not the truth and we are not willing to be corrected, then we fall into error. That's what was wrong with the leaders of Jesus' day, they just would not accept the truth even though they could see it plainly.

For example, of course we are not going to become a "pillar" in the Temple of God, this is a figure of speech. But there is no reason to take God writing His ownership signature on us, and where we live, and the new name He gives us as real. The words mean this. This will identify us with who we belong to-our God, where we live, and allow us to move freely, and it will be a badge of honor for us

In the same way it will be for those who take the mark of the Beast. It will identify you with Beast or AC- that this is your God, allow you to move freely and buy and sell goods, but you will take part of the plagues in Rev, and confirm and seal your destiny- which is not Heaven.

This will all be real. We just have not seen it yet. Make no mistake, the mark of the Beast will be connected to worshiping this man that will look like he rises from the dead. Satan has his man, just like God has His man-Jesus. Satan always wanted to take Gods place, and this is his plan. If we take the mark we are worshiping Satan-the dragon.

That is why we have to know the real Jesus beforehand, believe in the truth of the bodily resurrection of Jesus that happened 2000 years ago, and trust His word-by faith, not sight. Cause if we are a fence sitter at the time he comes on the scene, we will believe our eyes and take the mark. The Bible makes it pretty clear:

3I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”

8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. 9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

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Revelation is overwhelmingly written in figurative language. Your literalist approach is preventing you from seeing the spiritual application.

Where else in scripture does it teach that there is going be a literal mark of the beast?

sovereigngrace said:

Revelation is overwhelmingly written in figurative language. Your literalist approach is preventing you from seeing the spiritual application.

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Not true.
Revelation describes many things that can and will happen. The metaphors like the Four horsemen, are simply a way of introducing the disasters they bring.
Jesus will Return as so beautifully described in Revelation 19:11. Why must you make the rest of it Spiritual?

sovereigngrace said:

Where else in scripture does it teach that there is going be a literal mark of the beast?

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Where else is it needed?
We have the clear prophecy about that 'mark' in Revelation. Why do you need any other proof?
Do you challenge other doctrines if they are not Written more that once?

Running2win said:

No, we won't and will be tested to see if we are in the faith. That's what it will be all about! It won't matter then what denomination you are, just do you believe/trust in Jesus and His word. No secret Christians then. If you don't believe the mark will be real, you are already setting yourself up to be deceived.

1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

I know when the Lord will come back too... It will be on the feast of trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) about two years after the AD/idol is set up in Jerusalem on the Temple mount. Just count it down when you see the AD, and watch for the signs in the sky. This is when the parousia (Mat 24, Rev 6-coming, presence) will happen. Jesus teaches us this in Mat 24.

The Day of the Lord follows and will run 1 year and 10 days (trumpets and bowls) and then Jesus will take possession of the kingdom (Rev 19-20, Mat. 25), this will be on the day of atonement. Therefore Jesus fulfills the fall feasts, just like He did the Spring feasts. This is key. These are "appointed days", so it has to be on these.

If you want to know why I know the day and hour, read "The Last Shofar", by Lenard and Zoller. It will answer all your questions. A sneak peak is it was a well know expression in Jesus' day, an idiom. A hidden day, but the Jewish folk knew what He was talking about. It would be like us saying turkey day is going to be soon- in the USA, or Santa is coming soon. We know when these days are. Same thing.

15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17“Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18“Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20“But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22“Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25“Behold, I have told you in advance. 26“So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

8For the LORD has a day of vengeance,
A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

7‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Who we going to trust??? Jesus or men?

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According to Daniel, the resurrection takes place when the abomination of desolation is placed.
You believe Jesus will return two years after the time of the resurection?

shilohsfoal said:

According to Daniel, the resurrection takes place when the abomination of desolation is placed.

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Can you show us the text, which backs up your claim above?

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BABerean2 said:

Can you show us the text, which backs up your claim above?

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The words of Christ backs up my claim.
Do you believe Christ?

Jesus said there would be great tribulation unlike there has ever been, or ever shall be when the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel stands in the holy place.

Matthew 24:21 NIV: For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.

If you believe Christ, then you must conclude this time of distress that is unlike there ever was or ever shall be is the time of distress Daniel was speaking of at the time of the resurrection.

If its not the same time of distress then either Daniel is wrong about it being a time of distress unlike there ever was, or Christ would have been wrong about it being a time of great distress the likes that never shall be again.

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

The device called the abomination of desolation which causes the time of great tribulation is placed by the armed forces to annihilate many.

Daniel 11:44 NIV: But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.