The Third Horseman...

Inkfingers

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...is usually presented as being about Famine, but what if it is about profiteering instead?

Hence the scales (symbol of the merchant), the extortionate pricing, and concern for "the oil and the wine" in Revelation 6:5-6

This would work in-line with who mourns the loss of Babylon ("merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries...merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her...The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn...became rich through her wealth") in Revelation 18:3, Revelation 18:11-13 and Revelation 18:15
 

Joyous Song

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This is another study my husband and I are working on. Its a little rough but I thought to give it here anyway as you two seem interested in the seals:

When he opened the third seal, I heard the third Living Creature say, “come!” And I saw, and behold a black horse, and its rider had a balance in his hand; and I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the Living creatures saying, A days allotment of seed of wheat for a denarius, and three allotments of seed of barley for a denarius, but do not harm the wine and oil. Rev.6.5-6



Black horse, in Jewish thinking black, Melas represents judgment. This fits the text which has within it a set of scales. These scales seem to measure a days worth for a days labor (denaries). So why does one group get one days seed amount of wheat for a days labor while another gets three times as much barley for that same daily labor?

Judah has three special feast days (of Ingathering). The first comes during the feast of Passover when the barley grains come in. During HaOmar the rabbis swung stems of barley before the altar. Its the first grain Jews can eat after Chag Hamotzi ends and the first grain to grow to fruition in Israel.

The second feast day follows the counting of the Omar, fifty days. Then comes Shavout when the wheat harvest comes in and wheat shieves were waved before the altar. In the fall Succos/Succoth, the fall holiday is a mixed harvest that was brought before the altar.

Here only two grains of ingathering are mentioned. First barley the earlier grain is also tied to the feast, Passover and Chag Hamozti. Both go back to the Exodus and was instituted for all Israel and therefore connects directly to Judah who are the only visible part of Israel today.

Wheat on the other hand connects also to Pentecost, for the waving of the sheives of wheat came on that exact same day. Therefore wheat seeds not only can connect to Judah as already explained but also connect to Christianity.

So why would Christians get less grain whether wheat or barley. Why is barley more for the money (day labor). One could argue wheat is a better grain than barley, yet Judah by comparison is getting a complete (3 is complete) amount of grain of barley and Christians are not getting a complete days labor of wheat. (to be continued)
 
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Joyous Song

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Yet before we take this further lets look at the next part: “ but do not harm the wine and oil”. This leads is to wine skins the old and new; the Gospel cannot go into old wineskins or at least could not in the first century, Lk.5.37-39, “though “the old is better”, thus complete. This was because Judah and the early Church had to separate, Rom.11.25-29 so that when Ephraim came to life within the Church, thousands of years later it would be a God bringing them to life, not the Church, Ez.37 -the dry bones, Ez.37, and not Judah. Yet they still must be of the body, (why a Roman Catholic pope will raise Y’hoshua up, Zech.4.7, so as to connect their movement back to Christ’s first coming.

Do not harm the wine, wine is joy, however there is joy in both the new and old wines. Thus the joy of the wheat seed and barley seeds should not be harmed. For two thousand years these have been harmed, through pogroms against the Jews and reformations within Christianity and Crusades.

So when did this judgment happen where the wine and anointed where called not to be harmed? To answer fully we need to return to early twentieth century (1917) the Blessed Mother came to Sr. Lucy and gave among other visions one secrete vision that starts with Judgment:

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendor that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!'.

This vision (this is just a small portion that contained judgment) was to be revealed in 1960. Its clearly judgment and a call to repentance. Why would this come then? By now two world wars would have come and gone and Judah will have regained their homeland in 1948. Yet through all this, the issue of Antisemitism was weakly addressed by the Catholic Church and the understanding that handicapped the Churches response to this crime- unaddressed.
 
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Joyous Song

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Yet in early 1960’s Pope John called for a council to do just this. Was it because he read that vision above and feared the Eternal judge hung over his Church? We will never know, he died before the council was completed.

Today we know this council as Vatican II. Within this council Judah was upheld, the Hebrew Scriptures held as permanently valuable. It was declare we should share mutual understanding and respect with Judah. Further even though they do not need to accept the wheat, the Gospel, they are still seen dear to God because of their fathers sake (see Roman above). The Church, She also declare antisemitism deplorable. In other words she upheld all Judah Wine/barley as kosher for Judah.

Further she redefine Biblical scholarship making it possible for non scholars to read the Sacred Scriptures and this in turn was connected to Divine revelation, thus the Lord may speak to us through his Sacred Scriptures, anointing us through them- the oil/anointed protected. She further redefined faith and church returning much to her foundations.

Thus by opening up dialogue and the Sacred Scriptures she opened up the possibility for Y’hoshua, Zech.3, Zerebabel, 4, the no-prophet, 13 and those men of good omen, 3. These are that oil, those singers, the hundred forty four thousand and their leaders. These were not to be harmed when they follow their anointing, and the judgment above was held off. This leads to the next seal.

So who called out this horse? The Face of the Mother (Parsuf Ima), the Blessed Mother, in 1917 by giving Sr. Lucy a secret vision that would inspire a Pope to convened a council that would hold off judgment upon the Church, for a time. Or it could be another Mother, the Mother Church on convening that council in 1961.
 
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Matt5

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This is another study my husband and I are working on. Its a little rough but I thought to give it here anyway as you two seem interested in the seals:

When he opened the third seal, I heard the third Living Creature say, “come!” And I saw, and behold a black horse, and its rider had a balance in his hand; and I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the Living creatures saying, A days allotment of seed of wheat for a denarius, and three allotments of seed of barley for a denarius, but do not harm the wine and oil. Rev.6.5-6



Black horse, in Jewish thinking black, Melas represents judgment. This fits the text which has within it a set of scales. These scales seem to measure a days worth for a days labor (denaries). So why does one group get one days seed amount of wheat for a days labor while another gets three times as much barley for that same daily labor?

Judah has three special feast days (of Ingathering). The first comes during the feast of Passover when the barley grains come in. During HaOmar the rabbis swung stems of barley before the altar. Its the first grain Jews can eat after Chag Hamotzi ends and the first grain to grow to fruition in Israel.

The second feast day follows the counting of the Omar, fifty days. Then comes Shavout when the wheat harvest comes in and wheat shieves were waved before the altar. In the fall Succos/Succoth, the fall holiday is a mixed harvest that was brought before the altar.

Here only two grains of ingathering are mentioned. First barley the earlier grain is also tied to the feast, Passover and Chag Hamozti. Both go back to the Exodus and was instituted for all Israel and therefore connects directly to Judah who are the only visible part of Israel today.

Wheat on the other hand connects also to Pentecost, for the waving of the sheives of wheat came on that exact same day. Therefore wheat seeds not only can connect to Judah as already explained but also connect to Christianity.

So why would Christians get less grain whether wheat or barley. Why is barley more for the money (day labor). One could argue wheat is a better grain than barley, yet Judah by comparison is getting a complete (3 is complete) amount of grain of barley and Christians are not getting a complete days labor of wheat. (to be continued)

Consider the wheat and the barley:
- Exodus 9:31-32: A judgment on Egypt where Barley is wiped out and wheat survives.
- 3 measures of death (barley) and 1 measure of life (wheat).

3rd Seal = Isaiah 17 (Israel nukes its neighbors. This is a judgement by God.)
4th Seal = Isaiah 18 (Revenge for Isaiah 17: Russia and China nuke America.)
 
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Joyous Song

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Matt5: Consider the wheat and the barley:
- Exodus 9:31-32: A judgment on Egypt where Barley is wiped out and wheat survives.
- 3 measures of death (barley) and 1 measure of life (wheat).

Granted but that is only one interpretation, however the Barley was waved on the First of Omar after Passover (Chag Hamotizah). This counting of the omar is a Jewish act so we took the Barley for Judah. Likewise the wheat is waved on Pentecost- the birth of the Church. Thus wheat belongs to the Body of Christ. This is therefore another viable interpretation, based on the laws of ingathering.

Matt5: 3rd Seal = Isaiah 17 (Israel nukes its neighbors. This is a judgement by God.),

I do not see where you got this interpretation based on the text, no where is that nuclear event found in the text that I can see.

Matt5: 4th Seal = Isaiah 18 (Revenge for Isaiah 17: Russia and China nuke America.)

I do not see this interpretation either, please elaborate. And which of the Four Living Creatures speaks for these two seals? They also need to be named to fully explain the texts.
 
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Joyous Song

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Matt5: Consider the wheat and the barley:
- Exodus 9:31-32: A judgment on Egypt where Barley is wiped out and wheat survives.
- 3 measures of death (barley) and 1 measure of life (wheat).

Granted but that is only one interpretation, Yet the Barley was waved on the First of Omar after Passover (Chag Hamotizah). This counting of the omar is a Jewish act so we took the Barley for Judah. Likewise the wheat is waved on Pentecost- the birth of the Church. Thus wheat belongs to the Body of Christ. This is therefore another viable interpretation, based on the laws of ingathering.



Matt5: 3rd Seal = Isaiah 17 (Israel nukes its neighbors. This is a judgement by God.),

I do not see where you got this interpretation based on the text, no where is that nuclear event found in the text that I can see.

Matt5: 4th Seal = Isaiah 18 (Revenge for Isaiah 17: Russia and China nuke America.)

I do not see this interpretation either, please elaborate. And which of the Four Living Creatures speaks for these two seals? They also need to be named to fully explain the texts.
 
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Joyous Song

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Matt5: Consider the wheat and the barley:
- Exodus 9:31-32: A judgment on Egypt where Barley is wiped out and wheat survives.
- 3 measures of death (barley) and 1 measure of life (wheat).

Granted but that is only one interpretation, Yet the Barley was waved on the First of Omar after Passover (Chag Hamotizah). This counting of the omar is a Jewish act so we took the Barley for Judah. Likewise the wheat is waved on Pentecost- the birth of the Church. Thus wheat belongs to the Body of Christ. This is therefore another viable interpretation, based on the laws of ingathering.

Matt5: 3rd Seal = Isaiah 17 (Israel nukes its neighbors. This is a judgement by God.),

I do not see where you got this interpretation based on the text, no where is that nuclear event found in the text that I can see.

Matt5: 4th Seal = Isaiah 18 (Revenge for Isaiah 17: Russia and China nuke America.)

I do not see this interpretation either, please elaborate. And which of the Four Living Creatures speaks for these two seals? They also need to be named to fully explain the texts.
 
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Matt5

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Matt5: Consider the wheat and the barley:
- Exodus 9:31-32: A judgment on Egypt where Barley is wiped out and wheat survives.
- 3 measures of death (barley) and 1 measure of life (wheat).

Granted but that is only one interpretation, Yet the Barley was waved on the First of Omar after Passover (Chag Hamotizah). This counting of the omar is a Jewish act so we took the Barley for Judah. Likewise the wheat is waved on Pentecost- the birth of the Church. Thus wheat belongs to the Body of Christ. This is therefore another viable interpretation, based on the laws of ingathering.

Matt5: 3rd Seal = Isaiah 17 (Israel nukes its neighbors. This is a judgement by God.),

I do not see where you got this interpretation based on the text, no where is that nuclear event found in the text that I can see.

Matt5: 4th Seal = Isaiah 18 (Revenge for Isaiah 17: Russia and China nuke America.)

I do not see this interpretation either, please elaborate. And which of the Four Living Creatures speaks for these two seals? They also need to be named to fully explain the texts.

How does information about the Four Living Creatures help me?

If you look at each seal individually, then they can be anything you want them to be. But in reality we are bound by this:

Rev 1:3: Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

In other words, the stuff in Revelation is meant to be helpful so people can act on it. If we can't act on it then it's probably not correct. Multiple interpretations of any particular seal may be valid as long as each one is helpful.

How can the opening of each seal help me?

The Help Requirements

1. I must know timing, location and event specifics beforehand.
2. I must have time to avoid each seal event.
3. I must be able to see the seal event open.

If it's going to help then actually help.

Are wheat and barley from seal #3 about bad economics as most people suggest? Does this satisfy some of the "help" requirements above?

Other verses point to the nuke direction concerning Is. 17. If you have been following the news, then you would know that there is serious danger of this event right now.

What about Is. 18? Is Is. 18 about America? Try googling it.

If Is. 17 is near, is America in danger of nuclear war?

[29-Jul-2020] Authorities in Beijing are taking steps that are setting off alarm bells inside the U.S. military and intelligence communities.

What intelligence agencies call “indications and warnings” — signs of potential hostile military or other actions against the United States — are being detected from inside China. Analysts suggest these movements reveal Beijing may be preparing for some type of military or covert action.

One indicator was Twitter video showing authorities putting up signs telling citizens how to take cover in a bomb shelter. Source: 'Indications and warnings' from China
 
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Joyous Song

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Matt5: How does information about the Four Living Creatures help me?

John begins this chapter as follows:

“Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say, as with a voice of thunder, “Come!” Rev.6.1



Thus these voices of the first Four Creatures speak for each of the four seals. Thus the first seal though at first was hard to understand. Yet when we noticed Christ sending the early body out to spread the Good News we realized this was the creature Face of the Son, Zier Apin in Hebrew or “Small Face”. It was the Messiah who cried out “Come” when He said:

All Authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father (Ayn), and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Ruach), teaching them to observe all I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Matt.28.18-20

Matt5: If you look at each seal individually, then they can be anything you want them to be. But in reality we are bound by this:

Rev 1:3: Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

The word John used for “read” in this statement above is the Greek word “anaginosko” which means read but also can mean, “to know again”. It comes from two root words, which are important to the formation of this meaning. The first is “ana” and this means “repetition”, or “intensity”; the second is the word “ginosko”, which means, “to know” or “to perceive” that is “understand”.

Thus its not enough to read this text as we might the Gospel with its plain meaning but to read it as it would have been read back when John penned the words that later were interpreted into English.

Matt5: In other words, the stuff in Revelation is meant to be helpful so people can act on it. If we can't act on it then it's probably not correct. Multiple interpretations of any particular seal may be valid as long as each one is helpful.

This maybe true but seals also tell us where we are in the timeline of Christ return. Thus the first seal was past history, He set out His Gospel conquering and being conquering the sins of this world. Yet its still in motion, the body is still reaching out the Gospel, sin is still needing to be conquered by those living breathing their faith.

Matt5: How can the opening of each seal help me?

The Help Requirements

1. I must know timing, location and event specifics beforehand.
2. I must have time to avoid each seal event.
3. I must be able to see the seal event open.

If it's going to help then actually help.


Perhaps on non-Revelation example will help you see this more clearly, what seal are to do. Look at Zech.12.2-3

“Lo, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup of reeling to all the peoples round about; it will be against Judah also in the siege against Jerusalem. On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone (immovability) for all the peoples; all who lift it (try to move her) shall be grievously hurt themselves. And all the nations of the earth will come together against it.”

This happened during the Oslo Agreements: the Last Status Talks. At those talk the were to discuss who would have a right to Jerusalem, the Holy City of G-d. By placing Jerusalem on the table they were setting the stage of “lifting the stone” ad those who did, Israel, Palestine and America all have been grievously hurt (intafata against Israel, Israel bombing Palestine, and 9-11).

This does not mean Armageddon is tomorrow or next week or whatever. It only means one precursor to that event has taken place so its happening (soon- and the News is showing how) and that same chapter does have what appears to be a nuclear event, but this is likely going to take place in the Middle East.

Matt5: Are wheat and barley from seal #3 about bad economics as most people suggest? Does this satisfy some of the "help" requirements above?

As said before, bad economics must fit ever detail, which our definition took into account. This does not mean our definition is accurate, but it stands we believe until someone else follows the same rules. Each detail of the text plays a part in its interpretation, going in Greek and searching words for additional meaning might also help as well as looking to the culture John came from, which we used in our interpretation.

Matt5: Other verses point to the nuke direction concerning Is. 17. If you have been following the news, then you would know that there is serious danger of this event right now.

Is.18 sounds like past history when Israel was exiled as was Syria by Assyria, the Assyria was stopped at the gates of Jerusalem. Then Judah returned to sin and faced Babylon. Still if modern, the the only verse connected to America and Western Europe is “the fortress also will cease from Ephraim,” 17.3 yet there are many ways the Americans power can fade beyond a nuclear event.


Matt5: What about Is. 18? Is Is. 18 about America?


Its about Cud or Ethiopia, not America. I’m not sure how people get Cud to even mean America. Brit-Am has strong proofs where Ephraim, or the House of Israel is scattered. So America, Briton, and nations connected to these two as well as a few scattered in south America and Northern Western Europe. Still even though America can be the House of Israel in prophecy sometimes that term is for ancient Israel.

This does not mean a nuclear bomb might not hit ,say, Washington. There are many suitcase bombs missing in Russia. Further, there is one area in Isaiah that could be America, (it links to 9-11) but I just do not remember which chapter. I need to find it and I’ll get back to you.

Yet the two clear nuclear events we seen in Scripture is that one in Zechariah and on in Jer.31:

37 This is what the LORD says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the LORD.

38 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when this city will be rebuilt for me from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.

39 The measuring line will stretch from there straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn to Goah.

40 The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown, and all the terraces out to the Kidron Valley on the east as far as the corner of the Horse Gate, will be holy to the LORD. The city will never again be uprooted or demolished.”

It sounds like fall out but its in the southern part of Jerusalem in Israel.
 
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