Saved by faith alone

GenemZ

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“But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.” (1 Timothy 5:6).

In other words, she is dead spiritually while she is lives physically.
Dead to God.. Yet, grieving and quenching the Spirit who will never leave her nor forsake her.

Grieving and quenching the Spirit because she was saved. For Paul wrote that passage about the believers in the church.
 
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Swag365

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A new creation is created for good works according to Paul, that is our purpose in life as a new creation.

Obviously, anyone claiming to be a Christian and not bearing any fruit, there would be room for doubt.

Yet we do not overturn Paul's doctrine, any attempt to do so is blatant heresy.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

We are saved purely by the grace of God through Christ Jesus. Grace through the mechanism of faith and we have no part to play, in that reconciliation. We receive salvation, righteousness, and even faith itself, as a free gift from God.

"not as a result of works"

Works follow on from our faith but never contribute to salvation. Works perfect your faith (James).
Well I don't think anyone is attempting to overturn what St. Paul wrote. We are discussing the proper interpretation of what he wrote.

If you are talking about an atheist who converts to becoming a Christian or a fallen Christian who repents from grave sins and returns to God's grace, I agree with you that works do not contribute to these.

But I would say that good works (especially in the form of obedience) contribute to salvation in the sense that obedience is necessary to remain in God's grace. Throughout the New Testament you see Paul and the other New Testament writers often warning the believers not to fall back into their previous sinful activity.

That obedience, of course, is attributable to God in the first instance, since it is the Holy Spirit working within a Christian that enables him to do what the law of Christ requires. The Christian merely need accept the promptings of the Holy Spirit in the same way that he accepts the gift of faith.
 
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Radagast

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and if they dont then they still enter the New Earth only via the Lake of Fire which purifies and one will confess Yeshua as the Christ

Nowhere does the Bible say that.

And per the rules, the unorthodox doctrine of Universalism may not be discussed here, but only in the "Controversial" section.
 
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To all:

It is written:

34 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.” (John 8:34).​

In verse 35: Jesus says that the servant abides not in the house forever.
In verse 34: Jesus says that this servant is a the servant of sin.

In other words, Jesus says that he that commits sin is the servant of sin and this servant will not abide in the house (i.e. the house of God forever). We see an example of this in Scripture.

Jesus says,

41 “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
(Matthew 13:41-42).​

What this verse is saying that The Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom all things that offend (those who make others to sin) and them which do iniquity (do sin themselves), and these angels of Jesus will cast them into a furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire) where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(Note: The word: “offend” is used in reference to sin in regards making a child to sin in Matthew 18:6).

So this ties in with John 8:34-35 in that a servant will not abide in the house (i.e. the Kingdom) forever. Before Christ gives up His kingdom to God the Father, He will get rid of any in His kingdom who justify sin and or evil. For the servant (i.e. the servant of sin) will not abide in the house forever (Which is what we also see here in Matthew 13:41-42).
 
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Sorry but I don't see how that scripture is relevant to anything I said. Care to elaborate?

Well, it is not really the real Scripture. I was actually misquoting the Scripture intentionally to show the inconsistency of your own stand on the use of parables or real world examples. You believe that my murder example is not common and thus it should be thrown out. Yet, if that was the case, in your universe, Jesus could have very well not accepted the Canaanite woman's expanded parable upon Jesus' parable and He could have very well brushed it off as an uncommon example and as a result ignore her faith and not heal her daughter.
 
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But Jesus did ignore the woman the first time she asked. Simply because Jesus was sent only to the Jews.

I am sure you can focus a laser-beam on that aspect of the story, but that is not where the story ends. Her persistence of faith paid off despite her being a Canaanite. The point is that Jesus did not ultimately ignore her altogether in the end. He might have at first ignored her because His mission was first to the Israelites, but that still did not stop Him from helping her later on the account of her faith.

What a great lesson of faith that we can learn from this story.
 
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Dead to God.. Yet, grieving and quenching the Spirit who will never leave her nor forsake her.

Grieving and quenching the Spirit because she was saved. For Paul wrote about the believers in the church.

Wait. Did you just say that the widows who live in pleasure are dead but they are alive are actually saved in 1 Timothy 5:6? If that is what you are suggesting, you cannot be serious.
 
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Salvation is an offer.
John 3:16. for God so Loved that He GAVE....and whosever will come, let them come.

God gives us free will. WE have a choice.
We see before us the end of our lives on this earth....this gets closer everyday... so, will we choose to exist with God, where He is... after we die, or will we choose to not.
God honors our CHOICE.

No one is sent to hell.
They end up there because they had all their lifetime to choose NOT TO GO.

Heaven and Hell are DESTINATIONS.
We get to CHOOSE.
God honors our CHOICE after we die.

I believe the choice we make is daily and not a one time decision alone. While our initial salvation with the Lord is vitally important and key because we are initially saved by God's grace and it is the foundation of our faith and salvation, we must also enter the Sanctification Process (and allow God to do the good work through our lives). This is simply abiding with God who is the source of our salvation. If we abide with God, then we will have the fruits thereof.
 
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The talents represent monetary value and are distibuted according to ability (Matthew 25:15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their talents with the bankers (verse 27) but the third servant buried his talent in the ground (verse 25). The third servant had been given a talent according to his ability and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but chose to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked" and "lazy" and an "unprofitable" servant (Matthew 25:26-30) who is "cast out into outer darkness," certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Those who produce no results at all were not truly converted.

Then works are required as a part of salvation (in the Sanctification Process) if such is the case. Yes, this would be the work of God done through the believer and not our own work alone. We as believers without God cannot do any good. We are first saved by God's grace, and then God works in our lives by our free will cooperation with God. But what you fail to understand is that Jesus says a good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. This means that if a believer lives a life of sin or they justify sin in some way under God's grace, they are not capable of abiding with a holy God whereby He does the good work or good fruit through their lives. It's like with Matthew 7:23. They did wonderful works in His name and tried to imitate good fruit, but Jesus said that they worked iniquity (sin) and He told them to depart from Him.

Yes, I am aware that Jesus said He never knew them. This certainly is possible even if you wanted to ignore Ezekiel 18:24, but not all Scripture verses talk about falling away from the faith (i.e. to lose salvation), even though many other verses do (See: Hebrews 3:12-14, Hebrews 4:11, Hebrews 6:4-9, Hebrews 10:26-30, Hebrews 12:15, 1 Timothy 1:18-20, 1 Timothy 4:1-7, Galatians 3:1-5, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Matthew 13:18-23, 1 Corinthians 10:12, 2 Thessalonians 2:3).

In these instances, they could very well be believers that God did not consider genuine according to His Word. They might have even thought they were saved, but when faced at the Judgment before Christ and His Holy Word, they realize that they were not entirely honest with what His Word said.

You said:
This man's characterization of the master maligns him as "reaping and gathering what he had no right to claim as his own." This wicked so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer and it's obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved.

But in the Parable of the Sower:
We learn that there were those who received the seed of the Word of God with joy, but they later fell away due to either riches or persecution. So yes, it is quite possible for a believer to start off good and do good works and then later become lazy and unprofitable; And we know what happened to the unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30). This proves that the believer must meet certain conditions to be saved, and salvation is not forced upon Him. God is not going to twist our arms to do good works. While God can be persuasive, the choice is still ultimately up to every believer to live holy and be fruitful for their Lord.

You said:
CONTEXT. All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, "This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) In this parable, being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually.

People in the NOSAS camp interpret this parable as the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually.

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NAS).

You cannot be made alive AGAIN unless sin separates a person from God. All babies that die are all saved by Christ's sacrifice. But if the baby grows up and they fall into sin, then sin separates them from God and they need to become born again (Alive AGAIN) by accepting Jesus as their Savior (the Everlasting Father), and they need to believe that Christ died for their sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later. But the point here is that this proves that sin is separation from God. For if we start off saved as babies, and then we later are dead spiritually on the account of our sin and then we become born again, this proves sin is separation from God.

The Prodigal Son went prodigal and was said to be “dead” (implying when he was prodigal) and he is now “alive AGAIN.” He was dead spiritually when he was squandering his inheritance on prostitutes, but he became alive again spiritually when he came back home to his father and he sought forgiveness with Him. To try and force this to fit into the OSAS viewpoint is just nonsensical. You did not really explain how alive AGAIN actually works in OSAS. It simply doesn't.

Moses struck the rock and he was kept out of the promised land.
Granted, we see Moses later at the Transfiguration on the Mount, but the point here is that Moses striking the rock in anger (sin) is symbolic of not entering into the real Promised Kingdom. Obviously Moses repented or sought forgiveness with the Lord to be forgiven again by His mercy and grace. But we need to realize that transgressions can keep us from God and His kingdom. It's a continual theme through the whole Bible. Why would God save the Israelites if they were to later just fall away in the wilderness? It's because salvation is conditional. They started off pretty good, but then they later dropped the ball in their faith.

You said:
In regards to James 5:19-20, *Notice - Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

No, it doesn't. James 5:19-20 does not in any way suggest that this was a false set of believers. James 5:19-20 says

19 “Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth,
and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19-20).​

You cannot err from the truth if you never had the truth.

You said:
IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died." "Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit."

Totally unrelated to James 5:19-20. It says if any of YOU do err from the truth. The truth is Jesus (John 14:6). So they are erring or going astray from Jesus because of their sin. They are going prodigal for a while and they can come back by seeking forgiveness of their sins with Jesus and their soul will then be saved from death, and a multitude of their sins will be covered by the blood of the Lamb.

You said:
for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

You need to read a little more closely 1 Corinthians 11:29-32. It does not support a believer being saved or taken home early on account of their sinning.

In 1 Corinthians 11:32 it says,
“But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.”

Not sure if you caught it or not, but it says that we are chastened so that we should not be condemned with the world. That is the purpose of chastening. It is to get a believer to stop justifying sin in their life and to seek forgiveness with the Lord and follow Him. But there is nothing in the text here about how the believer is being taken home early on the account of their sin. That is purely imaginary. It does not exist within any verse in the Bible.

There are two kinds of sins mentioned in 1 John 5:16-17. The “sin not unto death” is in reference to a believer confessing a sin in that they are struggling to overcome. They are asking for prayer in help to overcome this sin while they confess of their sin to the Lord Jesus (i.e. they will be given life or victory over their sin). This is not a sin unto spiritual death. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). But the “sin unto death” is the opposite of that. It is saying we have no sin when we do sin. It would be the position of justifying sin like the gnostics did. They thought sin was an illusion or non-existent and so they justified sin (1 John 1:8) (1 John 1:10). Nowhere in John's epistles did ever talk about any kind of physical death on the account of a believer sinning with them being saved. Again, this is purely imaginary and it is cooked up by OSAS folk to justify their belief (that they want to be true).

You said:
Those who work iniquity are not genuine believers. (Matthew 7:21-23)

See post #305.
 
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Hammster

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To all:

It is written:

34 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.” (John 8:34).​

In verse 35: Jesus says that the servant abides not in the house forever.
In verse 34: Jesus says that this servant is a the servant of sin.

In other words, Jesus says that he that commits sin is the servant of sin and this servant will not abide in the house (i.e. the house of God forever). We see an example of this in Scripture.

Jesus says,

41 “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
(Matthew 13:41-42).​

What this verse is saying that The Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom all things that offend (those who make others to sin) and them which do iniquity (do sin themselves), and these angels of Jesus will cast them into a furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire) where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(Note: The word: “offend” is used in reference to sin in regards making a child to sin in Matthew 18:6).

So this ties in with John 8:34-35 in that a servant will not abide in the house (i.e. the Kingdom) forever. Before Christ gives up His kingdom to God the Father, He will get rid of any in His kingdom who justify sin and or evil. For the servant (i.e. the servant of sin) will not abide in the house forever (Which is what we also see here in Matthew 13:41-42).
Well, your twist is noted. You start out talking about those who sin, and end with those who justify sin. The problem is, you sin and I’ve seen you justify sin.
 
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Danthemailman

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Then works are required as a part of salvation (in the Sanctification Process) if such is the case. Yes, this would be the work of God done through the believer and not our own work alone. We as believers without God cannot do any good. We are first saved by God's grace, and then God works in our lives by our free will cooperation with God.
There are 3 tenses to salvation which often get mixed up by works-salvationists. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) We are not merely "initially" saved by grace through faith and then ultimately, saved by works, which is "type 2 works salvation." What you fail to understand is that from beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

But what you fail to understand is that Jesus says a good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.
I don't fail to understand that.

This means that if a believer lives a life of sin or they justify sin in some way under God's grace, they are not capable of abiding with a holy God whereby He does the good work or good fruit through their lives. It's like with Matthew 7:23. They did wonderful works in His name and tried to imitate good fruit, but Jesus said that they worked iniquity (sin) and He told them to depart from Him.
That's not what it means. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, yet you basically say that a good tree can produce bad fruit and becomes a bad tree, which is not what Jesus said. In Matthew 7:23, these many people "claimed" to do wonderful works in Jesus' name, yet Jesus did not confirm this and clearly stated that He NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved, so those so called wonderful works were not so wonderful after all. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin. *Also, seeking to obtain salvation by works is not the will of the Father. These many people were not true converts. God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain (workers of iniquity) and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ.

Yes, I am aware that Jesus said He never knew them. This certainly is possible even if you wanted to ignore Ezekiel 18:24, but not all Scripture verses talk about falling away from the faith (i.e. to lose salvation), even though many other verses do (See: Hebrews 3:12-14, Hebrews 4:11, Hebrews 6:4-9, Hebrews 10:26-30, Hebrews 12:15, 1 Timothy 1:18-20, 1 Timothy 4:1-7, Galatians 3:1-5, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Matthew 13:18-23, 1 Corinthians 10:12, 2 Thessalonians 2:3).
So you deny that I NEVER knew you means they were NEVER saved? (Matthew 7:22-23) Jesus did not say, "I once knew you, but don't know you anymore." John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

I don't ignore Ezekiel 18:24 and in Ezekiel 18:29, we read - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

In Ezekiel 33:13, we read - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS."

This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES.

As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous.

None of the other verses that you cited unequivocally teach that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." I don't have time to thoroughly address them all, but will cover some of them to show you your error:

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. This is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold the beginning of your confidence firm to the end." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to Christ."

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah. And of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born again Hebrews who have partaken in Messiah, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Those faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of having become partakers of Christ.

In Hebrews 4:1-2, we read - "For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were believers. Notice that verses 2-3 make a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF. So when a letter is addressed to "brethren" don't be so naive to believe that EVERYONE in a group of professing believers MUST ALL be genuine believers.

In regards to Hebrews 6:4-9, verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. *Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

In Hebrews 12:15 (NASB) we read - See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God.. The NIV reads ..falls short of the grace of God and the ESV reads - ..fails to obtain the grace of God. No loss of salvation here. Only a failure to obtain it.

In regards to 2 Peter 2:20, those who are born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome.

*Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions," "filthy things," "contaminations," "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).
Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

In regards to 1 Corinthians 10:12, there are two types of fall's. Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.
 
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Danthemailman

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In these instances, they could very well be believers that God did not consider genuine according to His Word. They might have even thought they were saved, but when faced at the Judgment before Christ and His Holy Word, they realize that they were not entirely honest with what His Word said.
There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

But in the Parable of the Sower:
We learn that there were those who received the seed of the Word of God with joy, but they later fell away due to either riches or persecution. So yes, it is quite possible for a believer to start off good and do good works and then later become lazy and unprofitable; And we know what happened to the unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30).
His heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" in a shallow way and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

Unlike saving belief, shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? It can't and it doesn't. Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe unto salvation.

John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some level) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not believe unto salvation and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil. In regards to the "unprofitable servant," he buried his talent in the ground and does not represent a genuine believer.

This proves that the believer must meet certain conditions to be saved, and salvation is not forced upon Him. God is not going to twist our arms to do good works. While God can be persuasive, the choice is still ultimately up to every believer to live holy and be fruitful for their Lord.
This is your version of salvation by faith and works -- type 2 works salvation. You seem to be looking for credit for your performance. Man is saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

You cannot be made alive AGAIN unless sin separates a person from God.
Other translations leave out the word "AGAIN" and born AGAIN does not mean we are born physically again and again or spiritually again and again, but only ONCE.

All babies that die are all saved by Christ's sacrifice. But if the baby grows up and they fall into sin, then sin separates them from God and they need to become born again (Alive AGAIN) by accepting Jesus as their Savior (the Everlasting Father), and they need to believe that Christ died for their sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later. But the point here is that this proves that sin is separation from God. For if we start off saved as babies, and then we later are dead spiritually on the account of our sin and then we become born again, this proves sin is separation from God.
We all start off spiritually dead and are born again (from above) ONCE.

The Prodigal Son went prodigal and was said to be “dead” (implying when he was prodigal) and he is now “alive AGAIN.” He was dead spiritually when he was squandering his inheritance on prostitutes, but he became alive again spiritually when he came back home to his father and he sought forgiveness with Him.
It's like you did not hear a thing I said in post #207, but instead, continue on with your biased agenda. All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, "This Man receives sinners and eats with them" (vs. 2) but you don't seem to care about the CONTEXT, but are only concerned with accommodating your biased agenda.

To try and force this to fit into the OSAS viewpoint is just nonsensical. You did not really explain how alive AGAIN actually works in OSAS. It simply doesn't.
I did explain it in post #207, but apparently what I explained to you just seemed to go right over your head. Does born AGAIN mean born spiritually again and again or only ONCE? We are born again (from above) only ONCE and not again and again. That fits with your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NASB).

Moses struck the rock and he was kept out of the promised land.
Granted, we see Moses later at the Transfiguration on the Mount, but the point here is that Moses striking the rock in anger (sin) is symbolic of not entering into the real Promised Kingdom. Obviously Moses repented or sought forgiveness with the Lord to be forgiven again by His mercy and grace. But we need to realize that transgressions can keep us from God and His kingdom. It's a continual theme through the whole Bible.
Moses was not allowed to enter into the promised land on earth because of his transgression, but he still entered into the Kingdom of God. Your logic doesn't fit here.

Why would God save the Israelites if they were to later just fall away in the wilderness? It's because salvation is conditional. They started off pretty good, but then they later dropped the ball in their faith.
Conditional is another way of saying we are saved by faith AND WORKS. Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. Nothing there about dropping the ball in their faith, but DID NOT BELIEVE. I can see that this is very appealing to you. You seem to enjoy believing that other Christians all around you are dropping the ball in their faith, BUT NOT YOU. That really seems to tickle your ears and feed your pride.

No, it doesn't. James 5:19-20 does not in any way suggest that this was a false set of believers.
I already showed you otherwise in post #207.

James 5:19-20 says

19 “Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth,
and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19-20).​

You cannot err from the truth if you never had the truth.
You can error from the truth if you don't fully accept the truth. You are unable to see anything beyond your own biased logic.

Totally unrelated to James 5:19-20.
How is it totally unrelated? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. This is related and may be the death that James was talking about and you have not proven otherwise.

It says if any of YOU do err from the truth. The truth is Jesus (John 14:6). So they are erring or going astray from Jesus because of their sin. They are going prodigal for a while and they can come back by seeking forgiveness of their sins with Jesus and their soul will then be saved from death, and a multitude of their sins will be covered by the blood of the Lamb.
*Again, the wanderer is either a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored. For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16). You have not proven otherwise through your biased logic.

You need to read a little more closely 1 Corinthians 11:29-32. It does not support a believer being saved or taken home early on account of their sinning.

In 1 Corinthians 11:32 it says,
“But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.”

Not sure if you caught it or not, but it says that we are chastened so that we should not be condemned with the world. That is the purpose of chastening. It is to get a believer to stop justifying sin in their life and to seek forgiveness with the Lord and follow Him. But there is nothing in the text here about how the believer is being taken home early on the account of their sin. That is purely imaginary. It does not exist within any verse in the Bible.
Apparently it's you who needs to read a little more closely. 1 Corinthians 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. Paul knows that the judgment of God can take on the form of physical illness and even physical death. The word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers, not spiritual death (John 11:11-12; Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4).

There are two kinds of sins mentioned in 1 John 5:16-17. The “sin not unto death” is in reference to a believer confessing a sin in that they are struggling to overcome. They are asking for prayer in help to overcome this sin while they confess of their sin to the Lord Jesus (i.e. they will be given life or victory over their sin). This is not a sin unto spiritual death.
Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not fit the context - 1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not (deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). But the “sin unto death” is the opposite of that. It is saying we have no sin when we do sin. It would be the position of justifying sin like the gnostics did. They thought sin was an illusion or non-existent and so they justified sin (1 John 1:8) (1 John 1:10).
Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.

Nowhere in John's epistles did ever talk about any kind of physical death on the account of a believer sinning with them being saved.
1 John 5:16-18.

Again, this is purely imaginary and it is cooked up by OSAS folk to justify their belief (that they want to be true).
Your anti-OSAS bias blinds you from the truth. You need to climb down from your self righteous high horse and seriously consider the truth.

All I see is your continued bias in post #305. In context, we see Jesus rebuking Jews here who would have understood Jesus to mean that they were not members of God’s family, despite their biological relationship to Abraham (verse 37) because they were slaves to sin. Those who abide in the words of Jesus are truly His disciples and know the truth and are set free. While the Jews here thought of themselves as sons of Abraham, they were actually slaves of sin. If they were to become disciples of Jesus, they would have beed made freed from their bondage in sin and brought into the family of God.

"A slave does not abide in the house forever," does not mean that believers in the house of God lost their salvation. In context, we see that these Jews turned out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. You call that saved?
 
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Doveaman

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I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.


:ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::heart::checkeredflag:
What is faith?

Faith is the commitment of the mind expressed through the obedience of the body.
We believe Christ and commit to him, and our commitment is expressed through our obedience.
Our obedience then becomes the evidence of our faith.

If obedience is the evidence of our faith, then it’s not possible to have faith without obedience.
The obedience is not in addition to the faith; the obedience is the substance of the faith.
So to be saved by faith alone is to be saved by a faith that consists of obedience, because faith without obedience is dead.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?…24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only…26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2)
 
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GenemZ

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Right or wrong side of this argument. No one would be talking about this from either side unless they know God is real. Sort of stupid to be saved and think its real to be saved, yet try to find ways to deny one can be saved.

Its simple. Satan does not like seeing secure believers. Demons whisper into the ears and some become haunted by what they thought when shown strange twists on the Word of God.

It will all sort out in the end. Wood, hay or stubble. Or, gold, silver and precious stones. One will be insecure in his salvation, the other secure. One calls the Word a lie, one excepts the truth when human ability is too weak to make it happen in their own power.

Both will be saved. What will be lost? Not the salvation they have in spite of themselves. But, a loss of rewards that will grant the winner a special closeness with the Lord Jesus Christ which will be the greatest oneness with life one can ever call their own.

Nope... those who are weak and become strong in defending their doubts will be saved. Stupid as they make themselves to be will cease once they enter into their resurrection body. But? They will lose eternal rewards for having denied the Truth. Denied Jesus in their thinking. As they clung to their own insecurities that they learned to feel secure with. For it was a survival instinct of making sure not to become a threat to the enemy. For false teachers fear demons more than they do the Lord. They make themselves into a non threat to Satan's family as to prevent the pressures that would come for resisting them with the acceptance of truth! Its a artificial and false peace they seek. Wood, hay, and stubble... yet they will be saved for having believed in Jesus Christ.

(read carefully, and note the bold font words especially)


For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold,
silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for
what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed
with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved
—even though only as one escaping through the flames." 1 Cor 3:11-15
No rewards. That will be lost. All they built upon their salvation was false and not truth. Though what they built with was to be used as a shelter in a temporal sense. Protecting themselves from the enemy, by becoming a subject of the enemies thinking. Following false doctrine.

Yet? If they believed in Jesus Christ? After the fire does its job? They will find themselves yet saved from the Lake of Fire. And, glad to be.

Once saved always saved. If you like it, or not. Even if it makes you a threat to demons who hate you, who you want to make them stop, by accepting a lie......

Truth is eternal.
 
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Behold

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we must also enter the Sanctification Process

Its not heresy to teach that after we are saved, we have become a disciple, and this discipleship is a process of working out the understanding of how to function within our Spiritual Redemption.
Where the heresy comes in is to teach or believe that by discipleship, we maintain our salvation.
As when you believe this, then you are trusting in your own self effort to keep you saved.
One that has become your faith, then Christ is become of no effect to you, and you are "fallen from Grace".
To make certain you are not become a cross denying heretic, just ask yourself...>"am i ONLY trusting in Christ to get me to heaven"......and if you can't honestly say "yes"...then you are involved in self redemption, and that is Legalism.
 
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zoidar

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Its not heresy to teach that after we are saved, we have become a disciple, and this discipleship is a process of working out the understanding of how to function within our Spiritual Redemption.
Where the heresy comes in is to teach or believe that by discipleship, we maintain our salvation.
As when you believe this, then you are trusting in your own self effort to keep you saved.
One that has become your faith, then Christ is become of no effect to you, and you are "fallen from Grace".
To make certain you are not become a cross denying heretic, just ask yourself...>"am i ONLY trusting in Christ to get me to heaven"......and if you can't honestly say "yes"...then you are involved in self redemption, and that is Legalism.

Aren't you deeming 90% of all Christians heretics then?

When I got saved I knew nothing about faith and works, baptism or Lords supper etc. All I knew was that God had saved me. Theology is important, but more important is being born again by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Danthemailman

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To make certain you are not become a cross denying heretic, just ask yourself...>"am i ONLY trusting in Christ to get me to heaven"......and if you can't honestly say "yes"...then you are involved in self redemption, and that is Legalism.
Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4 etc..)
 
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Bible Highlighter

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There are 3 tenses to salvation which often get mixed up by works-salvationists. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

Well, there are actually 4 aspects of salvation.

1. Provisional Atonement.
2. Justification.
3. Sanctification.
4. Glorification.​

You are missing “Provisional Atonement” (Christ died for all so as to offer the free gift to whoever receives it). Calvinists believe in Limited Atonement (Meaning: Christ only died for the elect).

Sometimes Belief-Alone-ism Proponents confuse Provisional Atonement verses with Justification verses. Hence, why this aspect of salvation is rarely mentioned. Anyways, as you established, “Belief Alone Proponents” and or “Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationists” also appear to believe in Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification, too. It sounds like they have the same proper systematic theological teaching as taught in the Bible, but I believe they are really distorted viewpoints of what the Bible actually teaches.

I believe the Belief Alone Proponent's view of Justification is distorted; When they say that the penalty of sin is removed, they are actually saying that all future sin is paid for and that one cannot lose their salvation via by their sin (Which effectively gives a believer a false thinking that they can sin and still be saved on some level, thereby nullifying the purpose of Sanctification). Men like George Sodini (from Pittsburgh) had taken this belief seriously, and or to the extreme; Such a man admitted in his own suicide letter he would be saved despite his future sins of mass murder. After Sodini killed a bunch of people and took his own life, even his own church said he was saved despite his grisly incident. For if the penalty of sin is removed altogether whereby the believer does not lose salvation via by sin, the need for Sanctification is merely optional. Kenneth Nally under the influence of John MacArthur's teachings was taught that he could commit suicide and be saved. That is exactly what he did, and the parents sued John MacArthur's ministry. They did not back down from their teaching by this incident, either. They doubled down and said that a believer is saved even if they commit suicide. This is what Belief Alone-ism or Eternal Security teaches; A license for immorality on some level.

In reality, the Bible teaches clearly that we are forgiven of past sins only. This means any new sin that is accrued must be confessed to the Lord Jesus, and forsaken in order to maintain mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7) (Luke 15:17-21) (Luke 18:9-14) (John 5:14) (John 8:11) (John 8:47) (1 John 3:10).

In other words, I believe that if a believer justifies sin, they need to confess and forsake it in order to be forgiven (or to maintain salvation). So obviously I do not want to put my own soul at risk. For example: if I believe I have wronged somebody and did not even realize it, I do ask the Lord to forgive me of such a sin (that I may not be aware of). But sometimes in other cases, I do realize that some people do at times see sin where none really exists, as well. In these examples: I pray for them because Jesus says we are to love our enemies (even if I feel they may have wronged me by seeing sin in my life where there is none).

Anyways, the Bible teaches that past sin only is forgiven:

“But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.”
(2 Peter 1:9).

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26).

You said:
We are not merely "initially" saved by grace through faith and then ultimately, saved by works, which is "type 2 works salvation."

That's great you have your own name for it, but that doesn't mean you are correct in what the Bible says here.

There are actually three verses that say we need both:
God's grace (Justification) + Sanctification (i.e. obedience by God's power)” in order to be saved.

(Note: The red letters are in reference to Sanctification, and the letters in blue, are in reference to Justification).

Verse #1.

"...God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:13).​

(Note: In verse 12, says that there are those who are damned who believed not the truth and had pleasure in unrighteousness (Which is the polar opposite contrast of believing the truth and Sanctification). Verses 16-17 in 2 Thessalonians 2 mentions faith and works in context, as well; So this Sanctification of the Spirit is speaking of living holy by God's power).

Verse #2.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (John 5:24).​

(Note on John 5:24: While the word “hear(s)” in the Bible can be defined as: “to listen,” it can also be defined as “obey.” First, the EXB Translation on John 5:24 explains that the word "hear" is to: "obey."; Second, the context supports the idea of obedience because it says, “29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29). Meaning, we have to believe in Jesus and obey Him to not perish. Acts of the Apostles 3:23 confirms this. It says that if anyone does not hear that prophet (JESUS), they shall be destroyed; Jesus even told the Pharisees in John 8:47 that they that are of God hear God's word. Jesus was using again the word “hear” as in reference to obey, because the Pharisees did the lusts of their father the devil - See: John 8:44).

Verse #3.

"You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
(James 2:24).​

(Note: Most Christians believe that the phrase "justified by faith" is dealing with salvation; If this is what you believe, you must then also be consistent with the use of this word "justified," and we should use this one word in the same way in relation to works.).

You said:
What you fail to understand is that from beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Ephesians 1:4 says,
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."

Certain believers in the Belief Alone-ism camp stress the importance of how their holiness is not their own but it is in trusting in Jesus alone (Note: Sometimes these believers say they are sinners saved by God's grace, and that they sin and they are still saved). Yet, this holiness they describe is not what Ephesians 1:4 sounds like it is describing in regards to holiness, though.

Ephesians 2:2-3 talk about how we were once in times past we were sinners (fulfilling the desires of the flesh). In other words, sin is a part of our old life and not our new life. Also, Ephesians 2:1 also says that we have been quickened. So Ephesians 2 is primarily talking about "Initial Salvation." For being quickened is a one time event. To be quickened means to be born again spiritually (Which can happen when we first seek forgiveness with the Lord). In fact, Ephesians 3:17 says, "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love," (Which is a general call to all that a person needs to accept Christ, i.e. "Initial Salvation").

Ephesians 2:8-9 says,

8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."​

We are saved by grace through faith and it is the gift of God.
How many times do you receive a gift?
Only one time, and therefore this passage is referring primarily to “Initial Salvation.”

Being quickened, receiving a gift, and talk about our former life and the change all shows that this is a salvation event that takes place one time. It is speaking our salvation in the past tense. This is the 1st aspect of salvation called “Justification.” It is being saved by God's grace.

So it is by God's grace, who is a person named Jesus Christ and what He has done for us, by which we are saved by the vehicle of faith. We are saved by His mercy when we first come to Him and we are saved by His mercy if we were to stumble (on occasion) in the fact that we seek forgiveness with Him by faith. This is not something that is of ourselves that we can take credit for here. This is God's grace. It can cleanse us. Especially if we seek forgiveness of our sins with Him when we confess of our sins (1 John 1:9). So this grace is both when we first come to the Lord and it is for when we may happen to on rare occasion stumble. It is a gift of God. Jesus. He is that gift. For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son (John 3:16). For by Jesus we can seek out His forgiveness and be reconciled by what He has done for us with His death and resurrection.

This Jesus who is grace and the gift is what saves us ultimately and it is not of our works alone. For if salvation was by works alone, then a man could boast. So salvation is not by “Works Alone so that any man should boast. In other words, Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to “Works Alone Salvationism without God's grace.” Verse 9 is referring to “Man Directed Works” and not “God directed Works.”

Ephesians 2:10 says,

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."​

Verse 10 here is referring to an entirely different kind of work. This is referring to “God directed Works” and not “Man Directed Works.” They can also be referred to as “Works of faith.”

Works of faith (and not "Works Alone Salvationism" that does not include God's grace) is what takes place after we accept the Lord as our Savior for salvation. We are Christ's workmanship. We are His masterpiece. We are created anew by being born again spiritually after we sought out forgiveness of our sins with the Lord Jesus. We are given a new heart with new desires. Also, Jesus lives in us and does the good work, as well (See John 15:5). This is how we are able to be created unto good works. With a regenerated new born again spirit and with Jesus living in us, we can do good works which God has ordained (pre-arranged before this world was formed) that we should walk in these good works. The word "should" is used here. Saying of the necessity and importance of these good works that are to follow one's faith in the Lord for salvation.

But Ephesians 2 is primarily focuses on our initial or ultimate salvation (See Ephesians 2:11-18), and not on our Sanctification or the works that must follow. Verse 10 is merely a quick point of what needs to happen after we are saved by God's grace (Jesus). Nothing in Ephesians 2 is clearly mentioned about Sanctification (or living holy) as a part of our salvation because it's focus is fighting against Works Alone Salvationism. However, we know by other verses in the Bible that Sanctification is a part of our salvation (See my next post to you). Even Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Hebrews 5:9 says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. So Scripture has to be read as a whole and we cannot isolate verses so as to justify a wrong belief (Especially when that belief is immoral).
 
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After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:
(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).
 
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