Philadelphia's Top Prosecutor Is Prepared to Arrest Federal Agents

Archivist said:

That's why I have said throughout this thread when talking about the agents "if so." That's why in my post 46 I said "If they (the agents) aren't breaking the law then they have nothing to worry about."

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They aren't breaking the law because of the supremacy clause. The Mayor and state prosecutor threatening to arrest Federal agents is talking a lot of hot air. They know, or should know, they have no legal basis to arrest Federal agents who are enforcing Federal law. They're creating great political headlines but that's about it.

Arc F1 said:

Somebody has to stop the rioters. From what I've seen people stop supporting the movement as soon as it reaches their door. It's not fun anymore once it's your house, business or neighborhood.

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That's right. I live in the St. Louis area where liberal, white, ex-lawyers were forced into defending their home when they feared for their lives- when about 300 BLM protesters broke down a gate in a gated community and came on a private street threatening to invade their home. A rich gated community mind you. They got their guns and stood their ground on their own property now they are being prosecuted by a black top prosecutor.

This shows you the double standard that is being pushed by blacks against whites.
BLM are thugs and racist to the core and they want what hard working people have, and have decided this is how they will get it: Protest, riot, and loot. They disregard laws and expect justice. How stupid is that? And how stupid are whites and law abiding blacks that buy into this? BLM will turn on you just like this couple. Lock and load people, just like Jesus taught, it's going to get messy even before the great tribulation.

36And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

St. Louis' top prosecutor says she's charging couple who flashed guns at crowd marching to mayor's home

disciple Clint said:

Well that is not exactly true as I mentioned in my post, the officer needs a reasonable suspicion, that is all. The officer can stop and interview the suspect at any location and there is no time limitation on when that interview needs to be conducted. So I am saying that waiting until the individual is away from the crowd and then detaining and interviewing the individual is reasonable and legal. imho

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Not so fast.
Police (federal or otherwise) need RAS, and they are required to communicate that RAS to the person they wish to Detain.
(RAS= Reasonable, ARTICULABLE, Suspicion that a crime has been, is being or is about to be committed by the party they wish to detain.) The Police are required BY LAW to ARTICULATE WHAT CRIME the individual is suspected of Committing, and of course the detained party is under no legal obligation to cooperate, or answer any questions.

When The feds have not done so Here in Portland, which has been their MO, it makes them ILLEGAL detentions. Kidnappings actually.

And now even Our Mayor was Gassed by the feds last night...
'I'm not afraid': Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler tear-gassed by federal agents during protests

Redwingfan9 said:

They aren't breaking the law because of the supremacy clause. The Mayor and state prosecutor threatening to arrest Federal agents is talking a lot of hot air. They know, or should know, they have no legal basis to arrest Federal agents who are enforcing Federal law. They're creating great political headlines but that's about it.

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Unles those Federal agents are in fact breaking the law. If they are they can and should be prosecuted.

Archivist said:

As I said, innocent until proven guilty. Would you want any less than that for yourself?

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Do you really think these agents are going to do anything nefarious when the whole world is watching? The Portland "protesters" are shown guilty by the criminal acts filmed and occurring daily. Where is this outrage? Trump is trying to clean up messes that are a threat to people, the rule of law, and the Republic. He is acting when no one will.

It's funny how the liberal mindset works:
People commit crimes sometimes over and over again and then they worry that these same people might get roughed up a bit by officers trying to put a stop to their criminal behavior. Then all cops are bad cops when one goes too far.

The truth is most cops and Federal officers are good people and idealists that want to make a difference. People love to break the law and get away with it, and our laws are now stacked in favor of the criminal and our country is going downhill. Taken to it's logical conclusion we will be a nation or warlords and gangs.

Running2win said:

Do you really think these agents are going to do anything nefarious when the whole world is watching? The Portland "protesters" are shown guilty by the criminal acts filmed and occurring daily. Where is this outrage? Trump is trying to clean up messes that are a threat to people, the rule of law, and the Republic. He is acting when no one will.

It's funny how the liberal mindset works:
People commit crimes sometimes over and over again and then they worry that these same people might get roughed up a bit by officers trying to put a stop to their criminal behavior. Then all cops are bad cops when one goes too far.

The truth is most cops and Federal officers are good people and idealists that want to make a difference. People love to break the law and get away with it, and our laws are now stacked in favor of the criminal and our country is going downhill. Taken to it's logical conclusion we will be a nation or warlords and gangs.

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That is why the accusations involving the agents need to be investigated. If they are unsubstantiated the agents have nothing to worry about.

tulc said:

Philadelphia's Top Prosecutor Is Prepared to Arrest Federal Agents

tulc(got another cup of coffee)

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Good for Trump...

Running2win said:

Do you really think these agents are going to do anything nefarious when the whole world is watching?

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I do.
The Cop kneeling On George Floyd'd neck while the world was watching didn't care...even was nonchalant about it...and He was wearing identifying insignia... these feds are not sporting ANYTHING that the "watching world" can use to identify them... of course they're going to commit nefarious acts when they know they cant be identified. Whats to stop them?

based on The Portland "protesters" are shown guilty by the criminal acts filmed and occurring daily.

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If the feds were addressing actual crimes you might have a point... Moms Locking arms in peaceful solidarity is not "criminal", and certainly not cause for the teargassing and beating that is being filmed and occurring daily.

Where is this outrage? Trump is trying to clean up messes that are a threat to people, the rule of law, and the Republic. He is acting when no one will.

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Since when is Graffiti a threat to to People?

The Published DHS List of "crimes" the Feds were sent to Portland to address are 100% Graffiti.
Graffiti is NOT a violent Crime. Fighting Graffiti with violence, kidnapping and chemical weapons is not justified.

parousia70 said:

Moms Locking arms in peaceful solidarity is not "criminal", and certainly not cause for the teargassing and beating that is being filmed and occurring daily.

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Some would argue that the 'moms locking arms' are the human shield for the criminals operating just behind them. No one wants to be seen interacting robustly with women or children. The exact same tactic is used by despotic regimes trying to shield soldiers, equipment, and installations.

JustSomeBloke said:

Some would argue that the 'moms locking arms' are the human shield for the criminals operating just behind them. No one wants to be seen interacting robustly with women or children. The exact same tactic is used by despotic regimes trying to shield soldiers, equipment, and installations.

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Well, again when the crime is Graffiti, I would argue the Violent response from the State is overboard and unwarranted.

Maybe you agree that graffiti artists (an bystanders) should be met with Violence from the State... I don't.

Punishing suspected Graffiti artists on the spot with Violence, kidnapping & chemical weapons are for sure tactics used by despots.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

This didn't happen, right?

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No. I just couldn't resist.

parousia70 said:

Well, again when the crime is Graffiti, I would argue the Violent response from the State is overboard and unwarranted.

Maybe you agree that graffiti artists (an bystanders) should be met with Violence from the State... I don't.

Punishing suspected Graffiti artists on the spot with Violence, kidnapping & chemical weapons are for sure tactics used by despots.

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Either you are dishonest or uninformed. Which is it?

22 July 2020 - Protesters Attempt to Set Portland Courthouse Alight as Demonstrations Continue

parousia70 said:

I do.
The Cop kneeling On George Floyd'd neck while the world was watching didn't care...even was nonchalant about it...and He was wearing identifying insignia... these feds are not sporting ANYTHING that the "watching world" can use to identify them... of course they're going to commit nefarious acts when they know they cant be identified. Whats to stop them?

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Total speculation.

That is actually offensive to group all law enforcement in the same group as the one man that was obviously not right for the job.

This thinking is identical to what the BLM group are supposedly protesting.... Grouping all colored with the few bad apples ... just because they are colored... That is racism...

Doing it toward a certain profession... is no different and just as wrong.

parousia70 said:

If the feds were addressing actual crimes you might have a point... Moms Locking arms in peaceful solidarity is not "criminal", and certainly not cause for the teargassing and beating that is being filmed and occurring daily.

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Mom's locking arms... Yep , not criminal.. What are they blocking though?

Aiding criminal activity is still wrong if your a bunch of moms.

parousia70 said:

Since when is Graffiti a threat to to People?

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I guess we should just leave all graffiti up everywhere then?

Basically, it's defacing public property and it takes tax dollars to remove it and clean it up.

There is a time and a place for free speech...

parousia70 said:

The Published DHS List of "crimes" the Feds were sent to Portland to address are 100% Graffiti.
Graffiti is NOT a violent Crime. Fighting Graffiti with violence, kidnapping and chemical weapons is not justified.

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Unless, of course, the graffiti is inciting violence, looting, arson and such. Guess you can over look that violence.

parousia70 said:

I do.
The Cop kneeling On George Floyd'd neck while the world was watching didn't care...even was nonchalant about it...and He was wearing identifying insignia... these feds are not sporting ANYTHING that the "watching world" can use to identify them... of course they're going to commit nefarious acts when they know they cant be identified. Whats to stop them?



If the feds were addressing actual crimes you might have a point... Moms Locking arms in peaceful solidarity is not "criminal", and certainly not cause for the teargassing and beating that is being filmed and occurring daily.



Since when is Graffiti a threat to to People?

The Published DHS List of "crimes" the Feds were sent to Portland to address are 100% Graffiti.
Graffiti is NOT a violent Crime. Fighting Graffiti with violence, kidnapping and chemical weapons is not justified.

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Thanks for the answer. It's been illuminating.

JustSomeBloke said:

Either you are dishonest or uninformed. Which is it?

22 July 2020 - Protesters Attempt to Set Portland Courthouse Alight as Demonstrations Continue

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Neither... again, The Justification that the DHS published for their deployment, which has been the SOLE incendiary excellerant of the recent days ESCALATION, was 100% Graffiti.

100% GRAFFITI

Prior to their arrival and escalation, the protests were deescalating.
The past 35 of the last 50 nights prior to the feds arrival saw no violence from protesters whatsoever.

That's just a fact.

Of course arson is a crime and should be investigated and prosecuted.
Don't be silly.

Do you believe Arsonists should be beat with clubs on the spot?

Maybe you believe police should cut off their hands when they catch them?
That would certainly prevent them from setting any more fires, right?

How far are you willing to go? As far as I can tell, you haven’t drawn the line of "too far" anywhere....

JacksBratt said:

Total speculation.

That is actually offensive to group all law enforcement in the same group as the one man that was obviously not right for the job.

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I'm not. I grouping the Federal Law Enforcement officers who are willfully engaging in illegal activities without any insignia to identify them. Why wouldn't they?
I'm actually proud of our Portland Police, & Multnomah Co. Sheriffs... The are at least willing to be identified and held accountable for their actions.

Aiding criminal activity is still wrong if your a bunch of moms.

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Fine... but do you believe the punishment fits the crime? I don't.

What do you believe is the justification for the response?

I guess we should just leave all graffiti up everywhere then?

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Nope. we clean it up, cite the artists when we can prove they did it, and charge them for the cleanup... we don't Kidnap them beat them and teargas them... Thats the stuff of third world despots...

Basically, it's defacing public property and it takes tax dollars to remove it and clean it up.

There is a time and a place for free speech...

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See my last comment.
Maybe you believe Graffiti is so bad and violent and dangerous that it requires the Heavy handed tactics we are seeing in response from the state, I do not.

Unless, of course, the graffiti is inciting violence, looting, arson and such. Guess you can over look that violence.

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Nope... I just believe in our society we ought meet the crime with the appropriate punishment.

I suppose you're free to prefer Government overreach.

Maybe when Police catch a graffiti artist in the act they should pull their fingernails out with pliers on the spot? Or cut off their hands?
Would you believe that would be appropriate?
Why or Why Not?

From what I've read from you so far, I can't say you would not approve of that level of response to the crime of Graffiti.

parousia70 said:

Neither... again, The Justification that the DHS published for their deployment, which has been the SOLE incendiary excellerant of the recent days ESCALATION, was 100% Graffiti.

100% GRAFFITI

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I'll guess you didn't even watch the video, because at the end it is clear that the air is filling with smoke, and Federal Agents are shown running past, one carrying a fire extinguisher.

parousia70 said:

Prior to their arrival and escalation, the protests were deescalating.
The past 35 of the last 50 nights prior to the feds arrival saw no violence from protesters whatsoever.

That's just a fact.

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It's also a fact that the hard-Left absolutely love a confrontation with law enforcement, and that large sections of the biased MSM gloss over violence and criminal damage. Here in the UK, the BBC is getting a bit of a reputation for reporting that a protest or demonstration was 'largely peaceful', even when video footage shows atrocious, violent behaviour. I would guess that much of the American MSM is also glossing over widespread criminality because of their unwavering support for BLM.

parousia70 said:

Of course arson is a crime and should be investigated and prosecuted.
Don't be silly.

Do you believe Arsonists should be beat with clubs on the spot?

Maybe you believe police should cut off their hands when they catch them?
That would certainly prevent them from setting any more fires, right?

How far are you willing to go? As far as I can tell, you haven’t drawn the line of "too far" anywhere....

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Graffitying and arson on Federal property is a crime, is it not? So I'd expect them to be arrested, and if the 'moms locking arms' are obstructing law enforcement then they should also be arrested.

And I recommend that you read my earlier post, on why this is happening.

JustSomeBloke said:

As I understand the situation, Federal Agents are only resorting to these tactics (unmarked vans arresting isolated individuals) because when they try to arrest suspects within a crowd of protestors or in close proximity to other protestors, there is a huge pile-on, which allows the suspect to escape in the ensuing melee. These kinds of pile-on situations are dangerous to both law enforcement and protestors, so they are arresting isolated suspects in a safer and more effective manner. If protestors were being injured while trying to arrest suspects in a violent chaotic melee, then I am sure we would never hear the end of it. Some people complain no matter what. I guess we'll have to wait until November to see what the majority of law-abiding Americans think about Federal Agents doing their job in difficult circumstances.

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Bearing in mind the difficulty of arresting suspects in a crowd, what do you think should happen? Should the Police and Feds just leave them to graffiti, burn, and destroy federal buildings? If yes, who should foot the bill for the damage? Are the tax payers entitled to expect the Police and Feds to protect their tax dollars that have been invested in Federal buildings? Or should the Feds use slightly covert methods (unmarked vans) to arrest isolated suspects in a safe manner, as has been happening?

JustSomeBloke said:

Or should the Feds use slightly covert methods (unmarked vans) to arrest isolated suspects in a safe manner, as has been happening?

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Except the Federal agents must follow the law, which means that they have to identify themselves as a Federal agent. They just can't grab someone and throw them in an unmarked van. It has been claimed that they have done that.

CaspianSails said:

I say to the prosecutor, good luck with that.

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AMEN!

Archivist said:

Except the Federal agents must follow the law, which means that they have to identify themselves as a Federal agent. They just can't grab someone and throw them in an unmarked van. It has been claimed that they have done that.

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Ya, Ya.... "it's been claimed".... A lot of things have been "Claimed"

"She turned me into a newt"...... "Well...........I got better"....