The Modern State of Israel...

ZNP · Jul 20, 2020

BABerean2 said:
We find the shadow below in the Old Testament.

Gen_22:2 Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

......................................................

Who was the greatest mountain climber who ever lived?

He climbed a hill that only person could climb.
It was for this purpose that He was born.

That mountain is called Calvary...

.

Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Tolworth John · Jul 20, 2020

ZNP said:
Yes, they are the blessings of keeping the covenant.

Which the modern state of Israel does not do. So is not the return of Israel that the Bible mentions.

ZNP · Jul 20, 2020

Tolworth John said:
Which the modern state of Israel does not do. So is not the return of Israel that the Bible mentions.

Galatians 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.

Douggg · Jul 20, 2020

Tolworth John said:
Which the modern state of Israel does not do. So is not the return of Israel that the Bible mentions.

Well, there is one thing that cannot be accused of Israel. They don't have idols of false gods littering the land. So that part of the covenant they are keeping.

keras · Jul 21, 2020

Douggg said:
Well, there is one thing that cannot be accused of Israel. They don't have idols of false gods littering the land. So that part of the covenant they are keeping.

Don't you know what 'idols' are, Douggg? Are you still in ancient history with you EU funny ideas and now with carved wooden, etc. idols?

The idolatry of modern Jewish Israel is Money, Possessions, Power, Gay Pride, plus many more. The Creator God just doesn't figure there.

Douggg · Jul 21, 2020

keras said:
Don't you know what 'idols' are, Douggg? Are you still in ancient history with you EU funny ideas and now with carved wooden, etc. idols?

The idolatry of modern Jewish Israel is Money, Possessions, Power, Gay Pride, plus many more. The Creator God just doesn't figure there.

You can't say anything good about the Jews?

keras · Jul 21, 2020

Douggg said:
You can't say anything good about the Jews?

Show where God does. The Jews, Judah, not Israel the Northern 10 tribes.

Maybe He did in ancient times, but the current occupants of the holy Land are far from them, ever since they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25

ZNP · Jul 21, 2020

Douggg said:
Well, there is one thing that cannot be accused of Israel. They don't have idols of false gods littering the land. So that part of the covenant they are keeping.

Money is a graven image

ZNP · Jul 21, 2020

keras said:
Show where God does. The Jews, Judah, not Israel the Northern 10 tribes.

Maybe He did in ancient times, but the current occupants of the holy Land are far from them, ever since they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25

Joel says that God will make an atonement, which He did during WWII with the holocaust.

keras · Jul 22, 2020

ZNP said:
Joel says that God will make an atonement, which He did during WWII with the holocaust.

Which verse in Joel says that God will Atone for, [or Redeem] the Jewish people?
Namely the citizens of the Jewish State of Israel.

Joel 3:1 says Judah and Israel. Paralleled by Jeremiah 50:4-5, where they rejoin, as per Ezekiel 37, and only the faithful Christian believers will occupy all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38

ZNP · Jul 22, 2020

keras said:
Which verse in Joel says that God will Atone for, [or Redeem] the Jewish people?
Namely the citizens of the Jewish State of Israel.

Joel 3:1 says Judah and Israel. Paralleled by Jeremiah 50:4-5, where they rejoin, as per Ezekiel 37, and only the faithful Christian believers will occupy all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38

Chapter 3 — God is gathering all the nations to be put on trial and judged for what they did to His inheritance, to His people Israel, when they divided up His land. This will happen in the days and at the time when He restores the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem. This will take place in the valley of Jehoshaphat and is described quite similar to Revelation describing the blood that will be several feet deep, like a wine vat. This is referred to as the Day of the Lord.

Compare this with what happened for Israel to be restored. and couple this portion with what Daniel said:

“Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.” Daniel 9:24

The Holocaust atoned for Israel’s wickedness and Armageddon and the Great Tribulation atone for the world’s wickedness. These events are referred to an inferred by Joel and Daniel says they were to atone for wickedness.

Compare the verse in Revelation where it says that Israel will look on Him whom they pierced with Ezezkiel:
16:63 Then, when I make atonement for you for all you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humiliation, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”
Daniel tells us these events are to make atonement, Ezekiel says that part of the process of making atonement is to remember all that you have done and be ashamed.

Tolworth John · Jul 22, 2020

Douggg said:
Well, there is one thing that cannot be accused of Israel. They don't have idols of false gods littering the land. So that part of the covenant they are keeping.

An idol or false God is anything that keeps one from worshipping the true God.

So as Israel is a " secular " state it is by definition an idolitorous state.

keras · Jul 22, 2020

ZNP said:
Chapter 3 — God is gathering all the nations to be put on trial and judged for what they did to His inheritance, to His people Israel, when they divided up His land. This will happen in the days and at the time when He restores the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem. This will take place in the valley of Jehoshaphat and is described quite similar to Revelation describing the blood that will be several feet deep, like a wine vat. This is referred to as the Day of the Lord.

Compare this with what happened for Israel to be restored. and couple this portion with what Daniel said:

“Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.” Daniel 9:24

The Holocaust atoned for Israel’s wickedness and Armageddon and the Great Tribulation atone for the world’s wickedness. These events are referred to an inferred by Joel and Daniel says they were to atone for wickedness.

Compare the verse in Revelation where it says that Israel will look on Him whom they pierced with Ezezkiel:
16:63 Then, when I make atonement for you for all you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humiliation, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”
Daniel tells us these events are to make atonement, Ezekiel says that part of the process of making atonement is to remember all that you have done and be ashamed.

While you, ZNP, continue to call the Jews - Israel, then we are at odds and cannot discuss these issues.
The Jewish State has usurped the name of Israel. It does not belong to them, they are of the House of Judah.
They were part of all Israel up until King Rehoboam's time, but now have no valid claim to that name.
Today; the name of Israelite only applies to the faithful born again Christian believers. Galatians 6:14-16

ZNP · Jul 22, 2020

keras said:
While you, ZNP, continue to call the Jews - Israel, then we are at odds and cannot discuss these issues.
The Jewish State has usurped the name of Israel. It does not belong to them, they are of the House of Judah.
They were part of all Israel up until King Rehoboam's time, but now have no valid claim to that name.
Today; the name of Israelite only applies to the faithful born again Christian believers. Galatians 6:14-16

I think you feel that the sins of the Jews and their unfaithfulness has disqualified them from God's covenant. That is only one side of the coin, the other side is that even when we are faithless God remains faithful.

keras · Jul 22, 2020

ZNP said:
I think you feel that the sins of the Jews and their unfaithfulness has disqualified them from God's covenant. That is only one side of the coin, the other side is that even when we are faithless God remains faithful.

The Bible is clear; The house of Judah is no longer part of the Kingdom; Matthew 21:43, and they are under a curse; Matthew 21:19, Matthew 27:25
They face the punishment of the soon to happen Lord's Day of fiery wrath, which will virtually depopulate the entire holy Land. Only a Christian Jewish remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

I am quite aware of the prevailing teaching of most Church's, of a general Jewish redemption. But that isn't what the Bible prophets say will happen. Even Zechariah 13:7-9, says 2/3rds will die and the remaining third must pass thru fire, leaving just the holy seed. Isaiah 6:13
The doctrine of a Jewish redemption, is a integral part of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory. Neither is biblical and what God does actually Plan for our future, is quite different. But amazing and to be looked forward to with great anticipation.

keras · Jul 22, 2020

BABerean2 said:
In the video below former Dispensationalist Pastor Steve Gregg speaks about the modern State of Israel, and its influence on the teaching of Bible Prophecy during the last 200 years.

Pastor Gregg tells it like it is.
The Jewish State of Israel is not now God's Chosen people:
IF.....THEN...

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 IF you Israelites, living among the nations where the Lord has banished you, if then, you make the right choice between the blessings and curses that I have offered to you, if you and your children turn back to your God and obey Him heart and soul in all that I command you this Day – THEN, the Lord your God will restore your fortunes. In compassion for you, He will gather you again from all the peoples to which He has dispersed you. Even though He has banished you to the ends of the earth, He will gather you from there and bring you home. The Lord will bring you into the Land that your forefathers occupied, and you will occupy it again; then He will give you prosperity and make you more numerous than they were.

Deuteronomy 30:6-10 The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you will love Him with all your heart and soul and you will live. He will turn those curses against your enemies, those who hate and persecute you. Then you will gladly obey all the commands of God, which you receive today. He will make you more than prosperous in all that you do, in the fruit of your body the increase of your livestock and the produce of the Land. For when you turn to Him and keep His commandments and statutes as written in the Book of the Law, your God, will do good for you and rejoice over you as he did over your forefathers.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 The Commandments that I give you are not too difficult for you, or beyond your reach. It is not up in the heavens, that you should say: Who will go up to the heavens to fetch it? Nor is it beyond the sea, it is something very near to you, on your lips and in your heart – ready to be kept.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20 Today, I offer you the choice of life and good, or death and evil. IF you love and obey the Lord, you will live and increase, He will bless you in the Land, But IF you do not listen and are led astray by false gods and wrong practices, THEN you will not enjoy long life. Choose life and you and your descendants will live, love the Lord your God, obey Him and hold fast to Him: that is life for you and length of days in the Land that He gave to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

These words were spoken by Moses to all the Israelites, just before entering the Promised Land, during their Exodus from Egypt. He prophesied that they would disobey, [Deut. 32:15-22] and their punishment would be exile. They divided into two nations, the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Both were conquered and taken into exile and this was to be for a decreed time. [Ezekiel 4:4-6] But if they still refused to listen and continued to disobey the Lord, then He would punish them further, as in Leviticus 26:18 seven times over for the sins of Israel, and in Leviticus 26:24 & 28 seven times seven for Judah. Isaiah 40:2 When these times are completed, then the over 40 prophecies about the Second Exodus will be fulfilled. 2 Chronicles 6:36-39

As all of that land promised to the Patriarchs is currently occupied by mostly, atheists, apostates and false religion worshippers, then a dramatic clearance is required before this fulfilment. [Jeremiah 12:14] What the Lord will use to carry this out, is clearly prophesied over 70 times as a fire judgement, in the form of a Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun. This will devastate the Middle East and affect the whole world, allowing for the emigration into all of the holy Land of the true Israelites of God, His faithful Christian people and will set the stage for a One World Government, eventually to be led by a dictator. Later, the Return of Jesus, will bring peace and righteous living to all the world. Micah 5:4-5

ZNP · Jul 23, 2020

keras said:
The Bible is clear; The house of Judah is no longer part of the Kingdom; Matthew 21:43, and they are under a curse; Matthew 21:19, Matthew 27:25
They face the punishment of the soon to happen Lord's Day of fiery wrath, which will virtually depopulate the entire holy Land. Only a Christian Jewish remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

I am quite aware of the prevailing teaching of most Church's, of a general Jewish redemption. But that isn't what the Bible prophets say will happen. Even Zechariah 13:7-9, says 2/3rds will die and the remaining third must pass thru fire, leaving just the holy seed. Isaiah 6:13
The doctrine of a Jewish redemption, is a integral part of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory. Neither is biblical and what God does actually Plan for our future, is quite different. But amazing and to be looked forward to with great anticipation.

You don't think the Holocaust will count as part of that fiery judgment?

keras · Jul 23, 2020

ZNP said:
You don't think the Holocaust will count as part of that fiery judgment?

The Sixth Seal punishment of the nations, is a one day event, yet to happen.
The Holocaust and all the pogroms and persecutions of the Jews, were just part of their dispersion and the age old curse over them.

The Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, as described by Zephaniah 1:14-18 for example, will virtually wipe them out and only a remnant will remain. Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27

The Modern State of Israel...

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Well-Known Member

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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