If i keep sinning am i not saved ?

Freed Man

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Many Born Again and Evangelical members believe that in order to be saved, the only thing which we should do is to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior by faith. And once you accepted Him through faith, you have now an assured salvation in heaven. No need of good works or following the commandments of God, but through faith alone, we will be saved according to them.

Sorry to say this, but I think this kind of belief is not just unbiblical but shameful, careless and dirty in its entire content. Imagine a person who thinks he was already saved and destined to heaven no matter what he will do, whether he do evil or not. Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church where he sat quietly for many years, listening to the deceptions of his preacher. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,

“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.“

And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.

The problem here is that you don't know whether this man George Sodini was a truly saved individual. I personally doubt that he was. Many people think that going to a church and becoming a Christian means that you are saved. That's not true. People have to know Jesus and have a personal relationship with Him. Which I doubt this person had. And people who do won't do the kind of things this man did. As one preacher once said, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than walking into a garage makes you a car". So, you'll have to prove to me that George Sodini was a truly saved person, which, at this point, only God knows.
 
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redleghunter

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So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.
Have you spoke with your pastor yet? Do you have a church you go to?
 
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Freed Man

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“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8).
Apply this to yourself, you who think you can make it to heaven by not sinning and having good works.
The bible does say, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, because His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God." So, the question here is whether you don't sin because you keep all the commandments of God or whether you don't sin because you are born of God and therefore all your sins are forgiven you for His names sake.

It doesn't sound a like a verse I ever heard before.
Quote the verse please.
Of course you've heard of it, Romans 3:23: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Come short of the glory of God means to be underserving of God's glory and heavenly perfection. I'm surprised that you would ask such a question because it means you actually think you can deserve to go to heaven. Which would make you equal with God. Youy might think you deserve it, but I'm sure God sees it otherwise.
 
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I haven't yet met a true born again Christian who believes in once saved always saved who has the attitude that this gives him a license to do evil. That's just something cooked up by the NOSAS camp to justify their false doctrine that you have to have good works in order to be saved. A true Christian is someone who repents of their sins and makes a confession of faith in Jesus and will be thankful that Jesus died for them and saved them from the lowest Hell. They will want to follow Jesus commandment to love one another, and even love their enemies. And they will strive for the mastery, to run the race that is set before them, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of their faith, who, for the joy that was set before Him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of God. They will do this because they are thankful to Jesus for His great sacrifice for them and because they know there is a reward in Heaven for them once this life is over. Some people who are saved will be ashamed and embarrassed when they get to heaven because of the nothing they did for the Lord, and others will shine as the brightness of the firmament and as the stars forever and ever. I, for one, want to be one of those who shine and not one of those ashamed. All that to say there is plenty of incentive to live for the Lord and obey His commandments even though we believe you can't lose your Salvation every time you make a mistake or commit some sin. So your assumption that if we believe once saved, always saved that there is no more incentive to obey Jesus and live for Him is a false assumption.

One thing I don't understand is why you don't believe that you sin enough to be cast into hell. Everybody's a sinner, as numerous scripture tell us as I've already quoted you in other posts. You can never be good enough to deserve heaven no matter how hard you try. So, why try? Just follow Jesus and do the best you can and don't get condemned for sins and/or mistakes you might make. How can you believe that if you sin once your saved that you can lose your salvation. It doesn't make sense because we're all sinners. If we could lose our salvation by sinning then everybody would lose their salvation seconds after they get saved. If you could lose your salvation by sinning, you've already lost it and you're bound for Hell, because you yourself are an evil, filthy, scumbag sinner even though yoiu, in your holier than thou self-righteousness think that you're not.

You are preaching a double message. On the one hand you appear to be for holy living, and on the other hand you are against it because you are trying to convince me I am filthy and evil, etc. (when you don’t know my life or my walk with the Lord) and you said that you don't sin because Jesus paid for it all. This means that when you sin, you don't sin.

This is the problem with your belief. It is not consistent. Then again George Sodini did not pretend to preach holy living. He said he was saved despite the sins he was about to do . George Sodini ended murdering a bunch of people and then he took his own life. In his own suicide letter, he admitted that he was going to be forgiven by Jesus (despite his actions). It was not just him, either. The deacon at his own church said he was saved despite his sins of murder and suicide. That is the majority of what OSAS teaches. That you can sin on some level, and you are still saved.
 
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The problem here is that you don't know whether this man George Sodini was a truly saved individual. I personally doubt that he was. Many people think that going to a church and becoming a Christian means that you are saved. That's not true. People have to know Jesus and have a personal relationship with Him. Which I doubt this person had. And people who do won't do the kind of things this man did. As one preacher once said, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than walking into a garage makes you a car". So, you'll have to prove to me that George Sodini was a truly saved person, which, at this point, only God knows.

A few posts back you were saying I was a filthy and evil, etc.; You quoted Romans 3:23 as if to imply that this applies to all people (including the current present daily walk of the believer or Christian).

Philippians 2:12 says,
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

But bring up a guy like Sodini, and of course you are singing a different tune. See, your belief is no different than his (if you believe Jesus has taken away your future sin and you don't sin when you do sin). For why would you try to convince me of sin? Why would you try to say that you don't sin because Jesus took that away your sin?

For if your sin was taken away, then there is no need to worry about lying, cheating, or committing adultery, murder, etc. Surely this is what Sodini believed. He just did not pretend to teach holy living (as a cover story). Although Sodini was in grave error, at least he was consistent and open about what he believed. For do you believe that the Christian walk is filled with sin? Are they still saved? If you say... yes, then it is no different than what George Sodini believed. Was king David saved when he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Most in your camp say... “Yes.” But the apostle John says,

“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15).
 
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Bible Highlighter said:
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8).
Apply this to yourself, you who think you can make it to heaven by not sinning and having good works.

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
 
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Apply this to yourself, you who think you can make it to heaven by not sinning and having good works.

You tend to oversimplify things, and make wrong assumptions about what I actually believe in regards to salvation (or Soteriology).
Actually, I believe the Bible teaches that there are 4 different aspects of salvation:

1. Provisional Atonement.
2. Justification
3. Sanctification.
4. Glorification.​

Those who want to be saved and follow Jesus need to be concerned with applying “Justification,” and then “Sanctification” to their lives.

No believer can be saved by doing good works and by putting away sin alone without first being initially saved by God's grace. A person's past slate of sin needs to be wiped out first. This is why Paul said we are not saved by works but we are saved by God's grace like a gift (Ephesians 2:8-9). Real life teaches us that gifts are received one time. We do not keep receiving the same gift over and over and over again. So this tells us that Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring primarily to Initial Salvation.

Being saved by God's grace is believing that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it most of the time includes seeking forgiveness of one's sins with the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:17-21) (Luke 18:9-14) (Hebrews 4:16) (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9).

This is the first step in the salvation process. It is a process of salvation that is without the deeds of the Law. For if a believer stumbles into sin on rare occasion, they can confess of their sins to Jesus and be forgiven of those sins (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9). They did not need to go out and do another work in order to absolve their previous transgression. They went to God's grace (Hebrews 4:16). They went to Jesus to be forgiven and or to maintain their salvation. So God's grace is how we are initially saved, and it is how we are foundationally saved. But the Bible also teaches that...

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:

(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).
 
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The bible does say, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, because His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God." So, the question here is whether you don't sin because you keep all the commandments of God or whether you don't sin because you are born of God and therefore all your sins are forgiven you for His names sake.

Where in the context of 1 John 3:9 does John say that you are forgiven of your sins past, present, and future by having a belief alone on Jesus?

He doesn't.

Actually John is in support of the view of keeping God's commandments as a part of knowing the Lord (who is the source of our eternal life) because he says that we can have assurance i knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments.

In 1 John 2:3 it says,
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”

1 John 2:4 says,
“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

Knowing the Lord implies that we have (i.e. we possess, or we abide with) the Lord Jesus Christ. This is important to understand because Scripture says we have life by having the Son.

1 John 5:12 says,
“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

Okay, so let's read 1 John 3:9.

It says:

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
(1 John 3:9).

I believe John is referring to the polar opposite belief to that of the gnostics who thought that sin did not exist for them (1 John 1:8) (1 John 1:10). John did warn the brethren about about these gnostics in how they were seeking to seduce them (1 John 2:26). The gnostics obviously committed sin but they thought no sin existed by their saying, “we have no sin.” This is sort of similar to what you believe because you said that Jesus has taken away your sin. This means sin does not exist for you. I don't believe that is the case. I believe that if a believer sins, they must confess of their sins in order to be forgiven of that sin (See again: 1 John 1:9).

So 1 John 3:9 is in reference to willful intentional sinning (Hebrews 10:26), or in justifying sin (i.e. by saying we don't have sin when we do sin, thereby giving us a license to sin on some level). Believers need to battle against sin and not justify sin by saying that Jesus has taken away their future sin (Whereby they do not need to worry about it). So when John says “doth not commit sin,” he is referring to a lifestyle of grievous sin (mortal sin) that no longer rules that person's life (Which is only possible by the power of Jesus Christ).

You said:
Of course you've heard of it, Romans 3:23: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Come short of the glory of God means to be underserving of God's glory and heavenly perfection. I'm surprised that you would ask such a question because it means you actually think you can deserve to go to heaven. Which would make you equal with God. Youy might think you deserve it, but I'm sure God sees it otherwise.

Of course you ignored the point within my previous post to you.
Again, if you believe Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 applies to the present day walk of the believer, then you must also believe Romans 3:11 applies to the present day walk of the believer, too.

“There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” (Romans 3:11).​

So if you believe Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 applies to all believers in their present day walk, then you must also believe that no believer today has any understanding on the things of God, and that they do not seek after God according to Romans 3:11, too. For Romans 3:11 is the context. So this means that the apostle Paul is referring to Initial Salvation here and he was not referring to some kind of oversimplified version of salvation that comes from modern day greasy grace preachers. Paul is referring to how we all had sinned (and for the believer this would be their past life and not their present current walk with God). Granted, believers can stumble into sin on rare occasion, but sin is not the defining characteristic or lifestyle of the truly faithful believer.
 
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Freed Man

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Where in the context of 1 John 3:9 does John say that you are forgiven of your sins past, present, and future by having a belief alone on Jesus?

He doesn't.
Well, let's read the verse, "Whosever is born of God doth not commit sin, because His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God." So, what does it mean to be born of God? Here it is: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:" 1John 5:1
 
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Well, let's read the verse, "Whosever is born of God doth not commit sin, because His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God." So, what does it mean to be born of God? Here it is: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:" 1John 5:1

You only quoted half of the verse and the following context refutes what you believe.

1 “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” (1 John 5:1-3).​

It also says in verse 1 that every one that loves Him is begotten of Him. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Verse 3 says that the love of God is that we keep His commandments, and his commandments are not grievous.

But what really blows your unbiblical belief out of the water even more is the end of 1 John 5. It says,

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (1 John 5:18-19).​

Verse 18 says that whoever is born of God sins not but he that is begotten (born) of God keeps Himself, and that wicked one touches him not. Meaning, the believer keeps themselves from committing grievous or mortal sin, and thereby the devil does not touch them.

Verse 19 makes it even more clear. It says that we know we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness. Meaning, the whole world lies in doing wicked deeds or sinful things. So this is in reference to obedience here and not a “believe on Jesus alone and don't worry about your sins so much” type false belief.
 
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Have you spoke with your pastor yet? Do you have a church you go to?
I have not gone to church in a while I really do want to but all the churches that are in the area are either catholic churches or churches that don't really preach the gospel usually. They are the more go and feel good about yourself churches. So sadly no i am not right now i want to find a good small church where the word of God is preached not just peoples opinions without alot of scripture.
 
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You only quoted half of the verse and the following context refutes what you believe.

1 “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” (1 John 5:1-3).
This does not, in any way shape or form, refute anything I believe. You asked the question, where in this verse does it say that by believing in Jesus all of our sins are forgiven us. Since everybody who believes in Jesus is born of God then the verse would be just as true if it were worded, "Whosoever believes in Jesus does not commit sin, because His seed remains in him and he cannot sin because he believes in Jesus (is born of God). So why doesn't he commit sin? because he is born of God, (Believes in Jesus).
 
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I have not gone to church in a while I really do want to but all the churches that are in the area are either catholic churches or churches that don't really preach the gospel usually. They are the more go and feel good about yourself churches. So sadly no i am not right now i want to find a good small church where the word of God is preached not just peoples opinions without alot of scripture.
Send me a PM. I might be able to help locate a church for you.
 
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every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” (1 John 5:1-3).
It also says in verse 1 that every one that loves Him is begotten of Him. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Verse 3 says that the love of God is that we keep His commandments, and his commandments are not grievous.
I believe in all these things just as much as you do. I believe we should love God and keep His commandments, and I resent the accusation that you think I don't. Yes, His commandments are not grievous 1John 3:22 tells us what those commandments are, "And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another as He gave us commandment." These 2 commandments comprise the entire New Testament. It's what it's all about. There's only 2 New testament commandments, the first, believe in Jesus, the second, love one another.

But what really blows your unbiblical belief out of the water even more is the end of 1 John 5. It says,

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (1 John 5:18-19).
This doesn't blow any of my beliefs out of the water. It confirms my beliefs. I believe in Jesus (am born of God) and therefore I don't sin. Why? because the blood of Jesus Christ has washed me of all my sins and I am forgiven and the wicked one can't touch me cause I am begotten of God. Yes, we who believe in Jesus are of God and the whole world of unbelievers is full of wickedness and evil because they don't believe in Jesus. The only difference between the wicked and the righteous is the name of Jesus. The righteous believe in Jesus, the wicked don't. See, the problem here is your misinterpretation of these verses. This whole debate is not about whether or not I believe that we are to obey God's 2 new testament commandments it's about whether or not we care saved forever, once we are saved, or whether or not we can lose our salvation by committing some sin. You "Not once saved always saved" people are always making the false accusation and/oy falsely implying that we who believe once saved always saved are preaching that you can go out and commit every sin in the book because after all, since you going to go to heaven what does it matter? That's an outright lie and a false accusation.
 
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I have not gone to church in a while I really do want to but all the churches that are in the area are either catholic churches or churches that don't really preach the gospel usually. They are the more go and feel good about yourself churches. So sadly no i am not right now i want to find a good small church where the word of God is preached not just peoples opinions without alot of scripture.

Most churches these days preach OSAS or Once Saved Always Saved (a.k.a. Eternal Security). Most versions of OSAS teach that one can sin and still be saved on some level. Even MacArthur's church (which is for Calvinism) that appears to be for holy living with the “Lordship Salvation” doctrine do not actually believe that holy living is really necessary. It's a smokescreen of making you think they are for holy living. Lordship Salvation is a trojan horse. John MacArthur taught that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved. He thinks the sin unto death is a believer dying because of sin but he is still saved. So he preaches a double message. Many in the OSAS camp preach a double message. They will say on the one hand that you must live holy, but then on the other hand, they will say you can sin and still be saved on some level. Pay very close attention to their words.

The only larger organized church that I have seen that appears to be for holy living (in addition to first being saved by God's grace) is this one.

International Fellowship of Bible Churches International Fellowship of Bible Churches

Here is their statement of faith and practice:
https://ifbc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/IFBC_Handbook_2018.pdf

You can check to see if there is one near you with a Pastor you and fellowship group you can relate to.

Ministry Locator – International Fellowship of Bible Churches

Although I do not live in this State, the one in Wyoming looks good.

Here is one of the sermons by the Senior Pastor.
Gaining the Heart of A Disciple of Jesus | New Hope Worship Center

Their other videos you can check out here:
New Hope Worship Center videos | ChristianWorldMedia.com
 
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I believe in all these things just as much as you do. I believe we should love God and keep His commandments, and I resent the accusation that you think I don't. Yes, His commandments are not grievous 1John 3:22 tells us what those commandments are, "And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another as He gave us commandment." These 2 commandments comprise the entire New Testament. It's what it's all about. There's only 2 New testament commandments, the first, believe in Jesus, the second, love one another.


This doesn't blow any of my beliefs out of the water. It confirms my beliefs. I believe in Jesus (am born of God) and therefore I don't sin. Why? because the blood of Jesus Christ has washed me of all my sins and I am forgiven and the wicked one can't touch me cause I am begotten of God. Yes, we who believe in Jesus are of God and the whole world of unbelievers is full of wickedness and evil because they don't believe in Jesus. The only difference between the wicked and the righteous is the name of Jesus. The righteous believe in Jesus, the wicked don't. See, the problem here is your misinterpretation of these verses. This whole debate is not about whether or not I believe that we are to obey God's 2 new testament commandments it's about whether or not we care saved forever, once we are saved, or whether or not we can lose our salvation by committing some sin. You "Not once saved always saved" people are always making the false accusation and/oy falsely implying that we who believe once saved always saved are preaching that you can go out and commit every sin in the book because after all, since you going to go to heaven what does it matter? That's an outright lie and a false accusation.

Look. You cannot teach obedience to God's commandments if you also teach others that their future sin is forgiven them. It's an oxymoron. Imagine if you preached a sermon on how future sin was forgiven for the believer and a child heard this garbage and you did not get time to explain how we must keep His commandments and you never seen this child again. This child will then grow up thinking they can sin and still be saved, and their blood will be on your hands for teaching them that they can sin and not lose salvation. They could even turn out to be the next George Sodini. The point of keeping His commands is pointless if you are forgiven of all future sin and you don't sin when you do sin.

For example: If people knew that they would not get a ticket for speeding on the highway, more people would break the speed limit law. But if they knew that they could be fined 10,000 dollars and be imprisoned for speeding, more people would respect the speed limit on the highways.

Most in your camp say that because you are forgiven of all future sin, you will be thankful to want to obey. I don't agree with that for a moment. I believe that if one believes that way, then there is no more fear of God, and one will just sin on some level, and think they are saved. Chastisement? Give me a break. Even unbelievers go through hardships in this life. Chastisement is for the faithful believer to let them know they are going in the wrong direction and if they keep refusing to repent, God will eventually take their life, and they will be condemned. While God can initially draw us by His love to follow Him, in time, the only true deterrent for obedience is being punished in the afterlife.

Why else would Jesus warn us about how the sin of lust can cause us to be in danger of being cast bodily into hell fire in Matthew 5:28-30? Was it just a false scare tactic? I don't believe it was.
 
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Verse 18 says that whoever is born of God sins not but he that is begotten (born) of God keeps Himself, and that wicked one touches him not. Meaning, the believer keeps themselves from committing grievous or mortal sin, and thereby the devil does not touch them.

Verse 19 makes it even more clear. It says that we know we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness. Meaning, the whole world lies in doing wicked deeds or sinful things. So this is in reference to obedience here and not a “believe on Jesus alone and don't worry about your sins so much” type false belief.
Let's put all these verses in 1John in context, starting with 1:8: "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us," and 1:10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." So these verses are basically confirming that everybody is a sinner and anybody who says they don't sin is a liar, and/or calling God a liar.

So what is sin? verse 3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law." When he says "the law" he's talking about the law of Moses. In order for something to be a sin in the eyes of God it has to be against the law that God gave to Moses on Mount Sanai, The old testament law.
verse5: "And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins and In Him is no sin." Jesus was manifested to take away our sins. The reason we don't sin anymore is because Jesus takes away our sins. This blows your belief out of the water that we don't sin anymore cause we keep all the laws of Moses, cause that's what you are saying when you say we have to keep ourselves from committing some grievous or mortal sin.
6:Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth, (Disobeys the law of Moses) hath not seen Him neither known Him
7: "My little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous." Since we know that righteousness does not come from the law (by not sinning), then we can't interpret doing righteousness to mean not sinning by obeying the law. Doing righteousness in this context that John is writing it means to believe in Jesus. You do righteousness by believing in Jesus.
Now back to 1John 1:9: "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The way to become righteous is to repent of our sins, accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and then He will cleanse us of all our unrighteousness.
3:8: He that sinneth is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil." So, since it has been confirmed in numerous places that everybody is a sinner and whoever claims that he doesn't sin is a liar, does that mean everybody is of the devil? No, it just means that the only way to be saved is to believe in Jesus because He destroys the works of the devil in our lives. We can't destroy the evil works of the devil by our own good works, but Jesus is the one who destroys the works of the devil in our lives.
3:9: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin because His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God." So the problem we have here is we have 2 different interpretations of this verse. You say this verse means you don't sin by doing your best to not commit any grievous or mortal sins by obeying the commandments of God. I say it means we don't sin anymore once we are saved because the blood of Jesus Christ God's Son has cleansed us from all sin. Your interpretation actually makes the bible contradict itself. Because no amount of obedience to the commandments of the law will make you righteous. Since we're all sinners and we're liars if we say we're not then that could only mean one thing, that the only way to become righteous and make it to heaven is to have our sins forgiven us, and righteousness automatically imputed on us by faith. So to say the reason we don't sin anymore after receiving Jesus is because Jesus has washed away our sins is the right interpretation because we can't make ourselves righteous by our good works.

We're sinners before we receive Jesus but not sinners after, because Jesus takes away our sin.
 
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Let's put all these verses in 1John in context, starting with 1:8: "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us," and 1:10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." So these verses are basically confirming that everybody is a sinner and anybody who says they don't sin is a liar, and/or calling God a liar.

So what is sin? verse 3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law." When he says "the law" he's talking about the law of Moses. In order for something to be a sin in the eyes of God it has to be against the law that God gave to Moses on Mount Sanai, The old testament law.
verse5: "And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins and In Him is no sin." Jesus was manifested to take away our sins. The reason we don't sin anymore is because Jesus takes away our sins. This blows your belief out of the water that we don't sin anymore cause we keep all the laws of Moses, cause that's what you are saying when you say we have to keep ourselves from committing some grievous or mortal sin.
6:Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth, (Disobeys the law of Moses) hath not seen Him neither known Him
7: "My little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous." Since we know that righteousness does not come from the law (by not sinning), then we can't interpret doing righteousness to mean not sinning by obeying the law. Doing righteousness in this context that John is writing it means to believe in Jesus. You do righteousness by believing in Jesus.
Now back to 1John 1:9: "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The way to become righteous is to repent of our sins, accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and then He will cleanse us of all our unrighteousness.
3:8: He that sinneth is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil." So, since it has been confirmed in numerous places that everybody is a sinner and whoever claims that he doesn't sin is a liar, does that mean everybody is of the devil? No, it just means that the only way to be saved is to believe in Jesus because He destroys the works of the devil in our lives. We can't destroy the evil works of the devil by our own good works, but Jesus is the one who destroys the works of the devil in our lives.
3:9: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin because His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God." So the problem we have here is we have 2 different interpretations of this verse. You say this verse means you don't sin by doing your best to not commit any grievous or mortal sins by obeying the commandments of God. I say it means we don't sin anymore once we are saved because the blood of Jesus Christ God's Son has cleansed us from all sin. Your interpretation actually makes the bible contradict itself. Because no amount of obedience to the commandments of the law will make you righteous. Since we're all sinners and we're liars if we say we're not then that could only mean one thing, that the only way to become righteous and make it to heaven is to have our sins forgiven us, and righteousness automatically imputed on us by faith. So to say the reason we don't sin anymore after receiving Jesus is because Jesus has washed away our sins is the right interpretation because we can't make ourselves righteous by our good works.

We're sinners before we receive Jesus but not sinners after, because Jesus takes away our sin.

I already addressed 1 John 1:8, and 1 John 1:10 in post #208 but you simply ignored it.
John is writing to believers and not unbelievers who need to be saved.
John is writing about those who are trying to seduce the brethren (1 John 2:26).
This would be the false belief of the gnostic that says that we have never sinned in the past (1 John 1:10). We both agree that we sinned in the past. But we do not agree on 1 John 1:8. 1 John 1:8 is saying a similar thing as 1 John 1:10. It is saying that a person is denying sin's existence in the present tense moment in time. Christian Scientists believe sin is an illusion. OSAS or Eternal Security folk believe that Jesus takes away their sin in the present and in the future and all is required is a belief alone in Jesus to maintain faith. So 1 John 1:8 is a warning to both the Christian Scientist and the OSAS person who thinks they do not lose salvation via by sin.

1 John 1:9 is the proper remedy for a person who says they have no sin.
While 1 John 1:9 could loosely apply to the person coming to the faith, 1 John 1:9 is technically not written to a person first accepting Jesus. Any person can just read the chapter plainly for themselves to figure this out. The text simply does not read in the way you falsely suggest. Compare 1 John 1:6 and 1 John 1:7. Compare 1 John 2:3 with 1 John 2:4. John even says that you are to “sin not.” (1 John 2:1). But if they do sin, they have an advocate that they can go to (i.e. Jesus Christ) (1 John 2:1). They obviously would confess of sin on rare occasion to be forgiven of their sin as a part of their walk with Christ.
 
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Let's put all these verses in 1John in context, starting with 1:8: "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us," and 1:10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." So these verses are basically confirming that everybody is a sinner and anybody who says they don't sin is a liar, and/or calling God a liar.

So what is sin? verse 3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law." When he says "the law" he's talking about the law of Moses. In order for something to be a sin in the eyes of God it has to be against the law that God gave to Moses on Mount Sanai, The old testament law.
verse5: "And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins and In Him is no sin." Jesus was manifested to take away our sins. The reason we don't sin anymore is because Jesus takes away our sins. This blows your belief out of the water that we don't sin anymore cause we keep all the laws of Moses, cause that's what you are saying when you say we have to keep ourselves from committing some grievous or mortal sin.
6:Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth, (Disobeys the law of Moses) hath not seen Him neither known Him
7: "My little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous." Since we know that righteousness does not come from the law (by not sinning), then we can't interpret doing righteousness to mean not sinning by obeying the law. Doing righteousness in this context that John is writing it means to believe in Jesus. You do righteousness by believing in Jesus.
Now back to 1John 1:9: "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The way to become righteous is to repent of our sins, accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and then He will cleanse us of all our unrighteousness.
3:8: He that sinneth is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil." So, since it has been confirmed in numerous places that everybody is a sinner and whoever claims that he doesn't sin is a liar, does that mean everybody is of the devil? No, it just means that the only way to be saved is to believe in Jesus because He destroys the works of the devil in our lives. We can't destroy the evil works of the devil by our own good works, but Jesus is the one who destroys the works of the devil in our lives.
3:9: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin because His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God." So the problem we have here is we have 2 different interpretations of this verse. You say this verse means you don't sin by doing your best to not commit any grievous or mortal sins by obeying the commandments of God. I say it means we don't sin anymore once we are saved because the blood of Jesus Christ God's Son has cleansed us from all sin. Your interpretation actually makes the bible contradict itself. Because no amount of obedience to the commandments of the law will make you righteous. Since we're all sinners and we're liars if we say we're not then that could only mean one thing, that the only way to become righteous and make it to heaven is to have our sins forgiven us, and righteousness automatically imputed on us by faith. So to say the reason we don't sin anymore after receiving Jesus is because Jesus has washed away our sins is the right interpretation because we can't make ourselves righteous by our good works.

We're sinners before we receive Jesus but not sinners after, because Jesus takes away our sin.

You also falsely quote out of context 1 John 3:5 to imply that the believer does not sin even if they do sin.

Lets read a few of the following verses along with 1 John 3:5.

5 “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
(1 John 3:5-8).​

Verse 7 says, “let no man deceive you” “he that does righteousness is righteous”
So the context of 1 John 3:5 is talking about how Jesus was manifested to take away our sins in context to our doing righteousness. For he that does righteousness is righteous.

Verse 8 says “He that commits sin is of the devil.” “For this purpose was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” Meaning, Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (sin) in our lives by helping us to overcome sin. This is how He destroys the works of the devil. This plays in perfect harmony with he that does righteousness is righteous.

Still not enough?

Lets read 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15.

1 John 3:10 says,
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”​

Not sure you caught what verse 10 said here. It says whoever DOES NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is not of God. You say that a person can sin and not lose salvation and thus, they are still of God.

1 John 3:15 says,
“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”​

So verse 15 says just hating your brother makes one out to be like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. So if one hates their brother, they are not saved. Hating your brother is a sin. Yet, you say a person does not lose salvation if they sin. 1 John 3:15 does not agree with you.
 
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Freed Man

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You also falsely quote out of context 1 John 3:5 to imply that the believer does not sin even if they do sin.

Lets read a few of the following verses along with 1 John 3:5.
I'm not implying anything of the sort. I'm not saying a believer does not sin even if they do sin. Your the one taking it out of context and misinterpreting it because you seem to ignore the fact that everyone is a sinner, including you. The right context is to accept the fact that everyone is a sinner. And you can't help being a sinner. If you say you're not a sinner your a liar as it says in 1John 1. Are you saying that you have the ability to be perfect by obeying all the commandments and never making a mistake or committing any sin however small?

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

So, since the bible says we're all sinners, how do you reconcile the fact that here it says if we abide in Him (Jesus) we don't sin. Your interpretation of these verses makes the bible contradict itself. You're saying that we can become righteous by not committing any sins. If that were true then Jesus wouldn't have needed to come and die for our sins and take our punishment for us so that we wouldn't have to be punished for our own sins. We could just not sin by obeying the commandments. So in the right context it's saying that the way to not sin is by abiding in Jesus so that He can forgive us for our sins. Your false interpretation also negates the Grace, Love, and Mercy of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Those who believe in and abide in Jesus don't sin because the blood of Jesus Christ God's Son has cleansed us from all sin. We're forgiven. Those who don't know Jesus are still sinners because their sins have not been washed away by the blood of Jesus. That's why "whosever sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him."

The sum of the matter: 1. We're all sinners who fall short of the glory of God and are therefore unworthy to come into God's presence and glory. And no amount of trying to be good and obedient will cause you to deserve everlasting life.
2. Since we're all sinners underserving of everlasting life then that means that the only way to get to Heaven is to have your sins forgiven and righteousness automatically imputed upon you by Faith. And the only way for that to happen is for you to receive Jesus and His atonement and forgiveness for your sins, because He's the one that gave His Life to save you from Hell. You can't save yourself from Hell no matter how hard you try.
 
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