God is not tempted and God cannot die?

GoldenKingGaze · Jul 17, 2020

I was talking to a JW years ago. He made the point that God cannot die. I recall also God cannot be tempted. The JW thinks Christ Jesus was Michael incarnate, not God the Son. I think it was Jesus humanity that could experience temptation and death. God is life and light, and beyond those things.

How does one explain Christ's temptations and free will as the Son incarnate and that He tasted death?

Andrewn · Jul 17, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
I think it was Jesus humanity that could experience temptation and death. God is life and light, and beyond those things. How does one explain Christ's temptations and free will as the Son incarnate and that He tasted death?

Jesus Christ is one person, God-man. If his humanity could experience temptation and death then his Divinity shared in this experience. Charles Wesley wrote:

Amazing love! how can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! how can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

GoldenKingGaze · Jul 17, 2020

Andrewn said:
Jesus Christ is one person, God-man. If his humanity could experience temptation and death then his Divinity shared in this experience. Charles Wesley wrote:

Amazing love! how can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! how can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

What do you say to a JW who quotes the Bible and theology saying, "God cannot die"?

Jesus also said, "I AM the Way the Truth and the Life."

Tone · Jul 17, 2020

Where does it say that? (OP)

BryanJohnMaloney · Jul 17, 2020

AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, this is what we get when people run around making everything up for themselves instead of looking to the living Witness of the Church. Please review the 1st through 4th Ecumenical Councils.

tbstor · Jul 17, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
I was talking to a JW years ago. He made the point that God cannot die. I recall also God cannot be tempted. The JW thinks Christ Jesus was Michael incarnate, not God the Son. I think it was Jesus humanity that could experience temptation and death. God is life and light, and beyond those things.

How does one explain Christ's temptations and free will as the Son incarnate and that He tasted death?

You are right when you say "it was Jesus' humanity that could experience temptation and death." Jesus, one person, had two natures. He was both fully divine and fully man. His humanity is what experienced hunger, pain, suffering, and death. His divinity never tasted these things and did not die on the cross. However, we can say that the Son did die on the cross because the human person of Jesus cannot properly be said to belong to anyone other than the Son of God. Yes, it is antinomical. The incarnation is declared to be a mystery for this very reason.

Tone · Jul 17, 2020

If the Son died, where did He see that?

*before the foundation of the world...

GoldenKingGaze · Jul 17, 2020

Tone said:
Where does it say that? (OP)

Can God die? | CARM.org

Tone · Jul 17, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
Can God die? | CARM.org

I looked at the two verses given and I'm not seeing it.

Andrewn · Jul 17, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
Can God die? | CARM.org

From the Orthodox POV, the answer is unequivocally yes, God can die, just as Wesley said.

According to Orthodox Christianity, did God die on the cross at Calvary?

Can God Suffer?

I'm sorry to say that those who claim that Christ's humanity died but his divinity did not, make him into 2 persons. And that is the error of Nestorianism.

GoldenKingGaze · Jul 18, 2020

Andrewn said:
From the Orthodox POV, the answer is unequivocally yes, God can die, just as Wesley said.

According to Orthodox Christianity, did God die on the cross at Calvary?

Can God Suffer?

I'm sorry to say that those who claim that Christ's humanity died but his divinity did not, make him into 2 persons. And that is the error of Nestorianism.

Christ tasted death. But can The Life, die? Jesus was tempted in His human spirit to worship Satan in Luke 4.

What is death? Jesus physically died. But spiritually? Was Jesus Christ fully God and fully man, dead in regards to His Father or nature?

Andrewn · Jul 18, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
Christ tasted death. But can The Life, die? Jesus was tempted in His human spirit to worship Satan in Luke 4. What is death? Jesus physically died. But spiritually? Was Jesus Christ fully God and fully man, dead in regards to His Father or nature?

First tell me, why are Liberals in Canada be considered left-leaning and in Australia be considered right-leaning?

Now to your comment and it is really thought-provoking. What is death? Here is how I approach this question: When Adam & Eve died, they first died spiritually then died physically. Spiritual death is separation from God and physical death is separation of the body from the soul / spirit.

When the God-man Jesus died, he said, "My God my God why have You forsaken me." So, in some sense, he felt separation from His Father. And when He died physically, His Divinity stayed connected to both His soul and His body.

In the Resurrection, He conquers spiritual death by reconciling humanity with God and conquered physical death by restoring immortality and the promise of resurrection of the body.

I think what I have written so far is very orthodox.

The problem with JW is thinking of God in His Divinity. But, after the incarnation, the Son of God acquired our human frailty. The problem of Nestorianism is that they think Christ had 2 separate personalities or persons and that only the human was tempted and suffered, and died and resurrected.

GoldenKingGaze · Jul 19, 2020

Tone said:
If the Son died, where did He see that?

*before the foundation of the world...

I remember that. He always knew that our race would need that. I can't find a verse saying God cannot die either. Can The Life die?

GoldenKingGaze · Jul 19, 2020

Andrewn said:
First tell me, why are Liberals in Canada be considered left-leaning and in Australia be considered right-leaning?

Now to your comment and it is really thought-provoking. What is death? Here is how I approach this question: When Adam & Eve died, they first died spiritually then died physically. Spiritual death is separation from God and physical death is separation of the body from the soul / spirit.

When the God-man Jesus died, he said, "My God my God why have You forsaken me." So, in some sense, he felt separation from His Father. And when He died physically, His Divinity stayed connected to both His soul and His body.

In the Resurrection, He conquers spiritual death by reconciling humanity with God and conquered physical death by restoring immortality and the promise of resurrection of the body.

I think what I have written so far is very orthodox.

The problem with JW is thinking of God in His Divinity. But, after the incarnation, the Son of God acquired our human frailty. The problem of Nestorianism is that they think Christ had 2 separate personalities or persons and that only the human was tempted and suffered, and died and resurrected.

It is hard to accept that the Son was separate from the Father theologically, but in the wording He said He felt abandoned. And the sky was dark, God's eyes too pure to look upon sin.

It goes back to why Lucifer invented death in the beginning, what that death was and what he thought he could do with Jesus.

Jesus gave the parable about the tenants in the vineyard. They wanted to kill the son for his inheritance. Satan wanted to have Jesus to take Jesus' power. To make himself like God. The Life did not die and the light was not put out. It was a Trojan horse aimed at attracting Satan's strength and wisdom to maximum application leading to the head of Satan and evil and all of the cohorts of Satan being crushed at the head. Gen 3:15.

Jesus' human spirit and soul tasted death. Jesus human spirit and soul was bruised. The tongue and the heel. The light conquered darkness, the Life conquered death, and Love overcame hate. From the Son, Satan must have thought the Son would be forced to submit by the spirit of Jesus, His humanity. They never broke into two. Through His fully God aspect He was able to never sin though tempted in spirit, not Spirit, and remain obedient on the cross, even though 2 Cor 5:21, He was made sin, and even though in the grips of death and Hell, Jonah 2, He was Life and light and love unchanging. Was the Son separate from the Father? Did the Son still create souls to be born? Through His humanity He tasted death, and His heel was bruised. Satan was lured. Tongue and heel are part of the same person.

Satan means obstacle, Satan curses, blocks life, poisons, threatens and steals.

Satan was a liar, He wanted to force God to lie, and break promises, and become under control and at a loss eventually of all His power. Like Theoden from Tolkien.

Lucifer went from loving God to loving what God had.

Lucifer was defeated and cast out of Heaven, but gained a hold on our race, and focused his powers on us. So God had to become incarnate to overcome Satan. Maybe we were a race of hostages. And Satan fell for a Trojan horse in Jesus the Son of God.

GoldenKingGaze · Jul 20, 2020

Australian Liberals may plan out liberal terms for business.

Jesus is YHWH · Jul 25, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
I was talking to a JW years ago. He made the point that God cannot die. I recall also God cannot be tempted. The JW thinks Christ Jesus was Michael incarnate, not God the Son. I think it was Jesus humanity that could experience temptation and death. God is life and light, and beyond those things.

How does one explain Christ's temptations and free will as the Son incarnate and that He tasted death?

Did God die when Jesus died on the cross? The answer depends on how we understand the meaning of the word die. To die does not mean to go out of existence. Death is separation. Physical death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body. So, in that sense, yes, God died, because Jesus was God in human form, and Jesus’ soul-spirit separated from His body (John 19:30). However, if by “death” we mean “a cessation of existence,” then, no, God did not die. For God to “die” in that sense would mean that He ceased to exist, and neither the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Spirit will ever cease to exist. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity, left the body He temporarily inhabited on Earth, but His divine nature did not die, nor could it.

Jesus is truly God and truly man. His physical body did die; His heart stopped beating, and “he gave up his spirit” (Matthew 27:50). Just as our physical bodies will someday die, so did His. But as Jesus died physically, He remained alive spiritually. Jesus made good on His promise to the believing thief on the cross—He and the thief both went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit (Luke 23:43).

So, Jesus died physically on the cross, as was plain for all to see (John 19:34). But there is also the matter of spiritual death. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, He experienced death on our behalf. Even though He is God, He still had to suffer the agony of a temporary separation from the Father due to the sin He bore. After three hours of supernatural darkness, Jesus cried, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34). So, could it be said that Jesus also “died” spiritually? Again, it was only His human nature that was separated from God, not His divine nature. God did not “die.” got ?

hope this helps !!!

TibiasDad · Aug 11, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
Did God die when Jesus died on the cross? The answer depends on how we understand the meaning of the word die. To die does not mean to go out of existence. Death is separation. Physical death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body. So, in that sense, yes, God died, because Jesus was God in human form, and Jesus’ soul-spirit separated from His body (John 19:30). However, if by “death” we mean “a cessation of existence,” then, no, God did not die. For God to “die” in that sense would mean that He ceased to exist, and neither the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Spirit will ever cease to exist. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity, left the body He temporarily inhabited on Earth, but His divine nature did not die, nor could it.

Jesus is truly God and truly man. His physical body did die; His heart stopped beating, and “he gave up his spirit” (Matthew 27:50). Just as our physical bodies will someday die, so did His. But as Jesus died physically, He remained alive spiritually. Jesus made good on His promise to the believing thief on the cross—He and the thief both went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit (Luke 23:43).

So, Jesus died physically on the cross, as was plain for all to see (John 19:34). But there is also the matter of spiritual death. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, He experienced death on our behalf. Even though He is God, He still had to suffer the agony of a temporary separation from the Father due to the sin He bore. After three hours of supernatural darkness, Jesus cried, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34). So, could it be said that Jesus also “died” spiritually? Again, it was only His human nature that was separated from God, not His divine nature. God did not “die.” got ?

hope this helps !!!

Amen, as always!

Doug

honey badger · Aug 12, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
I was talking to a JW years ago. He made the point that God cannot die. I recall also God cannot be tempted. The JW thinks Christ Jesus was Michael incarnate, not God the Son. I think it was Jesus humanity that could experience temptation and death. God is life and light, and beyond those things.

How does one explain Christ's temptations and free will as the Son incarnate and that He tasted death?

start by pondering these verses

saying, "Father, if You are willing, take away this cup from Me. Yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Therefore when Jesus took the sour wine, He said "It has been finished." And having bowed the head, He yielded up the spirit.

Babylon was a gold cup in the hand of the LORD, making the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; therefore the nations have gone mad.

And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls, holding a golden cup in her hand, being full of abominations and the impurity of her sexual immorality.

God is not tempted and God cannot die?

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Well-Known Member

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Well-Known Member

Sifting through the unknowable.

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Well-Known Member

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Well-Known Member

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

my Lord and my God !

Well-Known Member

i am

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