Failed Prophecies of Ellen G. White

BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Those who read Daniel 7 find it.
Those who read Romans 2 find it.
Those who read 2 Cor 5:10 find it.

The "investigative judgment" simply isn't in those verses,

until you read them to see the investigation of historic facts in those descriptions of the judgment.

(warning -- here comes 'wayyy too many bible texts' for anyone wanting to complaint without reading)

Dan 7
9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom

26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints

===========

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

===========

Romans 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

...13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

===================

Yes we DO see "Judgment" in all three cases.

Yes we DO see that the results are on the basis of looking at the facts , the record of what was "done in the body" whether good or evil.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

The point remains.
 
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BobRyan

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Peat & repeat. You're still wrong. .

I find the compelling nature of your argument "illusive". what is the purpose of that?

Why not make an actual case where someone who wanted to see your point and agree could actually have something to consider?
 
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mmksparbud

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Another member asked me to prove EGW was a false prophet by posting some of her failed prophecies from her own words, So, here we go:

(Testimonies, Vol.1,p. 259).

(p. 260) Again, written during our Civil War.

After predicting the world would end in 1843, 1844, & 1845, & flopping, she wrote, (Early Writings, p.57)

More to come-these are all I have time for right now.


Hmmm--You say you are Baptist and yet apparently are not aware that Baptists, and others, did used to say that Michael was another name for Jesus.

Charles Spurgeon [Baptist]

"Let the Lord Jesus Christ be for ever endeared to us, for through Him we are made to sit in heavenly places far above principalities and powers. He it is whose camp is round about them that fear Him; He is the true Michael whose foot is upon the dragon. All hail, Jesus! thou Angel of Jehovah’s presence, to Thee this family offers its morning vows." [Charles Spurgeon; Morning and Evening Daily Readings; page 556; Morning Devotion; October 3 on Hebrews 1:14] - October 3 : Spurgeon's Morning Devotional : HEARTLIGHT®

"Michael will always fight; his holy soul is vexed with sin, and will not endure it. Jesus will always be the dragon’s foe, and that not in a quiet sense, but actively, vigorously, with full determination to exterminate evil." [Charles Spurgeon; Morning and Evening Daily Readings; page 673; Evening Devotion; November 30 on Revelaton 12:7] - Spurgeon's Evening Devotional - November 30

John Gill [English Baptist Scholar]

"Another prophecy in Dan. xii. 1, 2, 3. represents the second and personal coming of Christ ; for he is meant by Michael, who is as God, as his name signifies, equal to him ; the great prince, the prince of the kings of the earth, and the head of all principalities and powers." [A Complete Body of Practical and Doctrinal Divinity, The Baptist Standard Bearer, 1987 reprint, page 617; or A Body of Doctrinal Divinity; Book 7—Chapter 5; Of the Second Coming of Christ, and His Personal Appearance; section 1b2] - 5. Of the Second Coming of Christ, and His Personal Appearance.

"Yet Michael the archangel, &c. By whom is meant, not a created angel, but an eternal one, the Lord Jesus Christ; as appears from his name Michael, which signifies, "who is as God": and who is as God, or like unto him, but the Son of God, who is equal with God? and from his character as the archangel, or Prince of angels, for Christ is the head of all principality and power; and from what is elsewhere said of Michael, as that he is the great Prince, and on the side of the people of God, and to have angels under him, and at his command, Dan. 10:21, 12:1; Revelation 12:7. So Philo the Jew {o} calls the most ancient Word, firstborn of God, the archangel. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Jude verse 9] - John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Jude 1

"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon: by whom is meant not a created angel, with whom his name does not agree, it signifying "who is as God"; nor does it appear that there is anyone created angel that presides over the rest, and has them at his command. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Revelation 12:7] - John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Revelation 12

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, &c. The Archangel, who has all the angels of heaven under him, and at his command, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ; who is as God, as the name signifies, truly and really God, and equal in nature, power, and glory, to his divine Father. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Daniel 12:1] - John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Daniel 12
\
Maybe they quite doing that to fit in more. Or maybe those Baptists were just a cult.
 
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robycop3

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I find the compelling nature of your argument "illusive". what is the purpose of that?

Why not make an actual case where someone who wanted to see your point and agree could actually have something to consider?

Of course, in Daniel 7, you skipped the verses about the 4th beast, which will be the 10-"horned" kingdom of the antichrist, which will at first be formed from the peoples of the old Roman & Holy Roman empires. This empire is still future, of course. The Scripture says it will devour the WHOLE EARTH, not just Israel.

And the context of Verses 26 & 27 indicate the return of Jesus. Remember, the beast & false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus' return, & He will take over the rule of the earth with His saints.

And again, the Scripture indicates GOD THE FATHER (The Ancient of Days) will preside over the court in heaven. But those events are yet future.

When you quote Scripture, make sure you understand it yourself, & don't depend upon the private interps of a quack like EGW.
 
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robycop3

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Hmmm--You say you are Baptist and yet apparently are not aware that Baptists, and others, did used to say that Michael was another name for Jesus.

Charles Spurgeon [Baptist]

"Let the Lord Jesus Christ be for ever endeared to us, for through Him we are made to sit in heavenly places far above principalities and powers. He it is whose camp is round about them that fear Him; He is the true Michael whose foot is upon the dragon. All hail, Jesus! thou Angel of Jehovah’s presence, to Thee this family offers its morning vows." [Charles Spurgeon; Morning and Evening Daily Readings; page 556; Morning Devotion; October 3 on Hebrews 1:14] - October 3 : Spurgeon's Morning Devotional : HEARTLIGHT®

"Michael will always fight; his holy soul is vexed with sin, and will not endure it. Jesus will always be the dragon’s foe, and that not in a quiet sense, but actively, vigorously, with full determination to exterminate evil." [Charles Spurgeon; Morning and Evening Daily Readings; page 673; Evening Devotion; November 30 on Revelaton 12:7] - Spurgeon's Evening Devotional - November 30

John Gill [English Baptist Scholar]

"Another prophecy in Dan. xii. 1, 2, 3. represents the second and personal coming of Christ ; for he is meant by Michael, who is as God, as his name signifies, equal to him ; the great prince, the prince of the kings of the earth, and the head of all principalities and powers." [A Complete Body of Practical and Doctrinal Divinity, The Baptist Standard Bearer, 1987 reprint, page 617; or A Body of Doctrinal Divinity; Book 7—Chapter 5; Of the Second Coming of Christ, and His Personal Appearance; section 1b2] - 5. Of the Second Coming of Christ, and His Personal Appearance.

"Yet Michael the archangel, &c. By whom is meant, not a created angel, but an eternal one, the Lord Jesus Christ; as appears from his name Michael, which signifies, "who is as God": and who is as God, or like unto him, but the Son of God, who is equal with God? and from his character as the archangel, or Prince of angels, for Christ is the head of all principality and power; and from what is elsewhere said of Michael, as that he is the great Prince, and on the side of the people of God, and to have angels under him, and at his command, Dan. 10:21, 12:1; Revelation 12:7. So Philo the Jew {o} calls the most ancient Word, firstborn of God, the archangel. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Jude verse 9] - John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Jude 1

"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon: by whom is meant not a created angel, with whom his name does not agree, it signifying "who is as God"; nor does it appear that there is anyone created angel that presides over the rest, and has them at his command. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Revelation 12:7] - John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Revelation 12

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, &c. The Archangel, who has all the angels of heaven under him, and at his command, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ; who is as God, as the name signifies, truly and really God, and equal in nature, power, and glory, to his divine Father. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Daniel 12:1] - John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Daniel 12
\
Maybe they quite doing that to fit in more. Or maybe those Baptists were just a cult.

No, they were simply WRONG, as was EGW. Remember, in Jude 9, Michael dared not revile Satan, while in John 8:44, Jesus reviles him sternly.
 
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robycop3

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BobRyan said:
Those who read Daniel 7 find it.
Those who read Romans 2 find it.
Those who read 2 Cor 5:10 find it.



until you read them to see the investigation of historic facts in those descriptions of the judgment.

Dan 7
9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom

26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints

===========

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

===========

Romans 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

...13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

===================

Yes we DO see "Judgment" in all three cases.

Yes we DO see that the results are on the basis of looking at the facts , the record of what was "done in the body" whether good or evil.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

The point remains.

This is NOT "investigative judgment". Those Scriptures are speaking of the future "Great White Throne" judgment Jesus will preside over. By no means has that event yet commenced.
 
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mmksparbud

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No, they were simply WRONG, as was EGW. Remember, in Jude 9, Michael dared not revile Satan, while in John 8:44, Jesus reviles him sternly.


Well, they were carrying on a long standing tradition of that belief. So most of your Baptists founders held wrong believes?

No, Jesus did not revile Satan then, He was there to resurrect Moses. Jesus did not revile Satan in John 8:44 He was speaking to the Pharisees, not to Satan. Jesus never reviled Satan.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The worst He did said to Him was:

Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
You call that reviling sternly?
 
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robycop3

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Well, they were carrying on a long standing tradition of that belief. So most of your Baptists founders held wrong believes?

No, Jesus did not revile Satan then, He was there to resurrect Moses. Jesus did not revile Satan in John 8:44 He was speaking to the Pharisees, not to Satan. Jesus never reviled Satan.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The worst He did said to Him was:

Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
You call that reviling sternly?

I can guarantee that Satan heard Jesus' words in John 8:44. And Satan wasn't arguing with Jesus atop the temple roof. But Satan had no answers for any of Jesus' "It is written"s.
 
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mmksparbud

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I can guarantee that Satan heard Jesus' words in John 8:44. And Satan wasn't arguing with Jesus atop the temple roof. But Satan had no answers for any of Jesus' "It is written"s.


Yes, but Jesus never reviled Satan. He really just offers the it is written and ignores. Which is an example to us---not good to argue with the devil! Just an it is written and walk away.
 
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robycop3

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Yes, but Jesus never reviled Satan. He really just offers the it is written and ignores. Which is an example to us---not good to argue with the devil! Just an it is written and walk away.

So you still ignore Jesus' denunciation of Satan in John 8:44, something Michael dared not do. Michael is not Jesus, simple as THAT !
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I'm familiar with the start of SDA, after Miller's prediction flopped. Some others, EGW included, stated that Miller had the right date, but the wrong event. That's when they invented "investigative judgment", which is NOT found in Scripture.

Well that is not true and I guess it depends if you believe the scriptures or not...

DANIEL 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

REVELATION 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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She, & the SDA, have other false doctrines.
I see. So what false doctrine are you talking about. Let's talk scripture and proof of your claims? So far all I can see is empty claims and quotes taken out of context that do not say what your claiming they say.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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For instance, she revived an old false and heretical doctrine that Jesus is the archangel Michael, & a friend of hers, Dr. Ben Wilkinson, wrote the "foundation book" for the Satanic KJVO myth. But my purpose in creating this thread was to post some of EGW's false prophecies & doctrines, as challenged by another member.

You have your claims and facts wrong again. The view that JESUS being Michael the Arch Angel was never that Jesus was a created being or an Angel! It was the same view that the reformers had which was that God or JESUS has many names in the bible.

It came about from an evaluation of the Hebrew and Greek "Michael the archangel" JUDE 1:9; DANIEL 10:21; 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16. It is not saying that Michael the archangel is a litteral created winged angel as most know the term. It was understood simpy as another name for God.

It means a messenger like God who is the chief of the angels or messengers from God. All those reformers and those listed in the OP believe that JESUS is God and the Chief of the angels and host of heaven.

MICHAEL;מיכאל ; mı̂ykâ'êl From H4310 and (the prefixed derivation from) H3588 and H410; who (is) like God ?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: - Michael.

ANGEL; מלאך; mal'âk; From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

ARCHANGEL; ἀρχάγγελος; archaggelos From G757 and G32; a chief messenger: Chief of the angels - archangel.

More to come ...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL
Protestant views Michael (archangel) - Wikipedia

Protestant denominations[specify][vague][who?] generally recognize Michael as an archangel.

Citing Hengstenberg, John A. Lees, in International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, states: "The earlier Protestant scholars[specify][vague][who?] usually identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the 'child' and the archangel in Rev 12:1-17, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel."[13] Such scholars include but are not limited to:

1.Martin Luther[54][55]
2. Hengstenberg with others[56][57][58]
3. Dr. W. L. Alexander [in Kitto], Prof. Douglas [in Fairbairn][59]
4. Jacobus Ode, Campegius Vitringa, Sr.[60][61][62]
5. Philip Melanchthon, Broughton, Junius, Calvin, Hävernick[63]
6. Polanus, Genevens, Oecolampadius & others[64], Adam Clarke[65]
7. Bishop Horsely[66][67]
8. Cloppenburgh, Vogelsangius, Pierce and others (Horsely)[68]
9. John (Jean) Calvin[69][70]
10. Isaac Watts, John Bunyan, Brown's Dictionary, James Wood's Spiritual Dictionary[71]
and many others[72]
11. for even before them, the Jewish commentators, such as Wetstein, Surenhusius, etc[73].
12. In the 19th Century, Charles Haddon Spurgeon[74][75] stated that Jesus is "the true Michael" [76][77] and “the only Archangel”,[78] and that he is God the Son, and co-equal to the Father.[74]

Within Anglicanism, the controversial bishop Robert Clayton (died 1758) proposed that Michael was the Logos and Gabriel the Holy Spirit.[79] Controversy over Clayton's views led the government to order his prosecution, but he died before his scheduled examination.[80][81]

Michael continues to be recognized[specify][vague][who?]among Protestants by key churches dedicated to him, e.g., St. Michaelis Church, Hamburg and St. Michael's Church, Hildesheim, each of which is of the Lutheran Church and has appeared in the Bundesländer series of €2 commemorative coins for 2008 and 2014 respectively.

In Bach's time, the annual feast of Michael and All the Angels on 29 September was regularly celebrated with a festive service, for which Bach composed several cantatas, for example the chorale cantata Herr Gott, dich loben alle wir, BWV 130 in 1724, Es erhub sich ein Streit, BWV 19, in 1726 and Man singet mit Freuden vom Sieg, BWV 149, in 1728 or 1729.

Seventh-day Adventists

Seventh-day Adventists, believe that Michael is another name for the eternal Son of the Father, the Heavenly Christ, and another name for the Word-of-God (as in John 1) before he became incarnate as Jesus. "Archangel" (meaning "Chief of the Angels", "highest messenger") was the leadership position as held by the Word-of-God as Michael while among the angels. According to Adventist theology, Michael was considered the "eternal Word", and not a created being or created angel, and the one by whom all things were created. The Word was then born incarnate as Jesus.[82]

Seventh-day Adventists believe the name "Michael" is significant in showing who he is, just as "Immanuel" (which means "God with us") is about who Jesus is. They believe that name "Michael" signifies "one who is God" and that as the "Archangel" or "chief or head of the angels" he led the angels and thus the statement in Revelation 12:7-9 identifies Jesus as Michael.[83]

Seventh-day Adventists believe that "Michael" is but one of the many titles applied to the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead. According to Adventists, such a view does not in any way conflict with the belief in his full deity and eternal preexistence, nor does it in the least disparage his person and work.[84] In support of the Seventh-day Adventist belief, Michael is also identified by them as being the very commander of Heavenly legions of the hosts of the LORD, God's invincible army, which helped Joshua son of Nun to lead Israel in to conquering Jericho [Joshua 5:14 - "And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?"]

In the Seventh-day Adventist view, the statement in some translations of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God" identifies Jesus as Archangel, which is Michael.[85] (Other translations have "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God.")[86] And the Seventh-day Adventists believe that John 5:25-29 also confirms that Jesus and Michael are the same.[85] Because of this belief that the Archangel Michael and Jesus Christ are one in the same, many mainstream theologians and academics[specify][vague][who?] in the field of Judeo-Christian history place Seventh Day Adventists in a unique category as a branch of, yet outside, mainstream Christianity.

more to come....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL – JUDE 9

θεοῦ θεῷ Ἰησοῦς και Κυριε Κύριε Κύριέ κυριοι κύριοι κυριοις κυρίοις Κυριον κυριόν κυρίον Κύριον κύριόν κύρίον ΚΥΡΙΟΣ κυριός κύριος κύριός κυριου κυριού Κυρίου κύριου κυρίους κυριω κυρίω κυρίῳ ΚΥΡΙΩΝ κυρίων κυρόυ Κύρου Χριστόν Χριστοῦ Christon Christón Christou Christoû Iesous Iesoûs Iēsous Iēsoûs Kurie kurio kuriō kurioi kuriois Kurion KURIŌN KURIOS Kuriou Kyrie Kýrie Kýrié kyrio kyriō kyrioi kyríoi kyríōi kýrioi kyriois kyríois Kyrion KYRIŌN kyríon kyríōn Kýrion kýrión KYRIOS kýrios kýriós Kyriou Kyríou theo theō theôi theō̂i theou theoû

But Michael the archangel, when disputing with the devil he reasoned about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a railing judgment against, but said, (no "the" in the Greek here) Lord rebuke thee. So reading it as it is written Satan is being rebuked by the authority of Michael the archangel and by his own authority being the LORD.

The GREEK word used here for MICHAEL'S authority for being LORD is that MICHAEL here is God...GREEK meaning LORD; 2962 Kurios; From kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title) -- God, Lord, master, Sir. So according to God's Word (not mine) Michael is rebuking Satan by his own authority as GOD and LORD.

The same word is only used in reference to JESUS througout the new testament scriptures...

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2962: κύριος

κύριος, κυρίου, ὁ (properly, an adjective κύριος, κυρία, κύριον, also of two term.; properly equivalent to ὁ ἔχων κῦρος, having power or authority) (from Pindar down), he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has the power of deciding; master, lord; used

c. this title is given α. to God, the ruler of the universe (so the Sept. for אֲדֹנָי, אֱלוהַּ, אֱלֹהִים, יְהוָה, and יָהּ; (the term κύριος is used of the gods from Pindar and Sophocles down, but "the address κύριε, used in prayer to God, though frequent in Epictetus does not occur (so far as I am aware) in any heathen writing before the apostolic times; sometimes we find κύριε ὁ Θεός, and once (2, 7, 12) he writes κύριε ἐλέησόν (Lightfoot on Philippians, p. 314 note{3}))) — both with the article, ὁ κύριος: Matthew 1:22 (R G); ; Mark 5:19; Luke 1:6, 9, 28, 46; Acts 7:33; Acts 8:24; Acts 11:21; 2 Timothy 1:16, 18 (but see ἔλεος, 3); Hebrews 8:2; James 4:15; James 5:15; Jude 1:5 (R G), etc.; and without the article (cf. Winers Grammar, 124 (118); Buttmann, 88f (77f)): Matthew 21:9; Matthew 27:10; Mark 13:20; Luke 1:17, 38, 58, 66; Luke 2:9, 23, 26, 39; Acts 7:49; Hebrews 7:21; Hebrews 12:6; 1 Peter 1:25; 2 Peter 2:9; Jude (5 T Tr text WH text), 9; κύριος τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καί τῆς γῆς, Matthew 11:25; Luke 10:21; Acts 17:24; κύριος τῶν κυριευόντων, 1 Timothy 6:15; κύριος ὁ Θεός, see Θεός, 3, p. 288a (and below); κύριος ὁ Θεός ὁ παντοκράτωρ, Revelation 4:8; κύριος σαβαώθ, Romans 9:29; ἄγγελος and ὁ ἄγγελος κυρίου, Matthew 1:20; Matthew 2:13, 19; Matthew 28:2; Luke 1:11; Luke 2:9; Acts 5:19; Acts 8:26; Acts 12:7; πνευαμα κυρίου, Luke 4:18; Acts 8:39; with prepositions: ὑπό (R G add the article) κυρίου, Matthew 1:22; Matthew 2:15; παρά κυρίου, Matthew 21:42 and Mark 12:11, from Psalm 117:23 (); παρά κυρίῳ, 2 Peter 3:8. β. to the Messiah; and that αα. to the Messiah regarded universally: Luke 1:43; Luke 2:11; Matthew 21:3; Matthew 22:45; Mark 11:3; Mark 12:36; Luke 19:34; Luke 20:44. ββ. to Jesus as the Messiah, since by his death he acquired a special ownership in mankind, and after his resurrection was exalted to a partnership in the divine administration (this force of the word when applied to Jesus appears especially in Acts 10:36; Romans 14:8; 1 Corinthians 7:22; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Philippians 2:9-11): Ephesians 4:5; with the article ὁ κύριος, Mark 16:19; Acts 9:1; Romans 14:8; 1 Corinthians 4:5; 1 Corinthians 6:13; 1 Corinthians 7:10, 12, 34; 1 Corinthians 9:5, 14; 1 Corinthians 10:22; 1 Corinthians 11:26; ( G L T Tr WH); Philippians 4:5; (2 Timothy 4:22 T Tr WH); Hebrews 2:3 (cf. Hebrews 2:7ff); James 5:7, etc. after his resurrection Jesus is addressed by the title ὁ κύριος μου καί ὁ Θεός μου, John 20:28. ἀπό τοῦ κυρίου, 1 Corinthians 11:23; 2 Corinthians 5:6; πρός τόν κύριον 2 Corinthians 5:8; ὁ κύριος Ἰησοῦς, Acts 1:21; Acts 4:33; Acts 16:31; Acts 20:35; 1 Corinthians 11:23; (1 Corinthians 16:23 T Tr WH); 2 Corinthians 1:14; (2 Timothy 4:22 Lachmann); Revelation 22:20; ὁ κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, 1 Corinthians 16:22 (R; 23 R G L); 2 Corinthians 13:13 (14) (WH brackets Χριστός); Ephesians 1:2; 2 Timothy 4:22 (R G), etc.; κύριος ἡμῶν, 1 Timothy 1:14; 2 Timothy 1:8; Hebrews 7:14; 2 Peter 3:15; Revelation 11:15, etc.; with Ἰησοῦς added (L T Tr WH in 1 Thessalonians 3:11 and 13); Hebrews 13:20; Revelation 22:21 (L T Tr (yet without ἡμῶν)); so with Χριστός, Romans 16:18 (G L T Tr WH); and Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, 1 Thessalonians 1:3 (cf. Buttmann, 155 (136)); 1 Thessalonians 3:11 (R G), (Rec.); ; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 14, 16; 2 Thessalonians 3:6 ((ἡμῶν)); 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 1:3; Galatians 6:18 (WH brackets ἡμῶν); Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 6:24; Romans 16:24 (R G); 1 Timothy 6:3, 14; Philemon 1:25 (T WH omit ἡμῶν); Philippians 4:23 (G L T Tr WH omit ἡμῶν), etc.; Ἰησοῦς Χριστός ὁ κύριος ἡμῶν, Romans 1:4; and Χριστός Ἰησης ὁ κύριος (ἡμῶν), Colossians 2:6; Ephesians 3:11; 1 Timothy 1:2; 2 Timothy 1:2; ὁ κύριος καί ὁ σωτήρ, 2 Peter 3:2 (cf. Buttmann, 155 (136)); with Ἰησοῦς Χριστός added, 2 Peter 3:18; without the article, simply κύριος: 1 Corinthians 7:22, 25; 1 Corinthians 10:21; 1 Corinthians 16:10; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 2 Corinthians 12:1; 2 Timothy 2:24; James 5:11; 2 Peter 3:10; κύριος κυρίων, i. e. Supreme Lord (cf. Winers Grammar, § 36, 2; (Buttmann, § 123, 12)): Revelation 19:16 (cf. in α. above; of God, Deuteronomy 10:17); with prepositions: ἀπό κυρίου, Colossians 3:24; κατά κύριον, 2 Corinthians 11:17; πρός κύριον, 2 Corinthians 3:16; σύν κυρίῳ, 1 Thessalonians 4:17; ὑπό κύριον, 2 Thessalonians 2:13; on the phrase ἐν κυρίῳ, frequent in Paul, and except in his writings found only in Revelation 14:13, see ἐν, I. 6 b., p. 211b. The appellation ὁ κύριος, applied to Christ, passed over in Luke and John even into historic narrative, where the words and works of Jesus prior to his resurrection are related: Luke 7:13; Luke 10:1; Luke 11:39; Luke 12:42; Luke 13:15; Luke 17:5; Luke 22:31 (R G L Tr brackets); John 4:1 (here T Tr marginal reading Ἰησοῦς); John 6:23; John 11:2. There is nothing strange in the appearance of the term in the narrative of occurrences after his resurrection: Luke 24:34; John 20:2, 18, 20, 25; John 21:7, 12.

So nope not saying what your saying now it it?

All you have provided is quotes taken out of context in this thread. Not really worth any time responding to this. As posted earlier let's talk scripture? Open up a thread and if you believe SDA's teach false doctrine, name your doctrine and discuss it with me. EGW only pointed people to believe and follow the bible as this is the final authority to what truth is and your not providing it here.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Here's a real gem of false & heretical from her Early Writings,, I believe, on P. 45 thereabouts:

"I saw that the mysterious signs and wonders and false reformations would increase and spread. The reformations that were shown me were not reformations from error to truth. My accompanying angel bade me look for the travail of soul for sinners as used to be. I looked, but could not see it; for the time for their salvation is past."


She wrote that trash, in an apparent misinterp of Rev. 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
You have your facts wrong again dear friend but here let's prove to you why by providing the context you have left out again.

"Satan was trying his every art to hold them where they were, until the sealing was past, until the covering was drawn over God’s people, and they left without a shelter from the burning wrath of God, in the seven last plagues. God has begun to draw this covering over His people, and it will soon be drawn over all who are to have a shelter in the day of slaughter. God will work in power for His people; and Satan will be permitted to work also. {EW 44.2} I saw that the mysterious signs and wonders and false reformations would increase and spread. The reformations that were shown me were not reformations from error to truth. My accompanying angel bade me look for the travail of soul for sinners as used to be. I looked, but could not see it; for the time for their salvation is past.

Note: The writer of these words did not understand them as teaching that the time for the salvation of all sinners was past. At the very time when these things were written she herself was laboring for the salvation of sinners, as she has been doing ever since. {EW 45.1}
Her understanding of the matter as it has been presented to her is given in the following paragraphs, the first published in 1854, and the second in 1888: {EW 45.2} which is the context you conveniently left out again...

“The ‘false reformations’ here referred to are yet to be more fully seen. The view relates more particularly to those who have heard and rejected the light of the advent doctrine. They are given over to strong delusions. Such will not have ‘the travail of soul for sinners’ as formerly. Having rejected the advent, and being given over to the delusions of Satan, ‘the time for their salvation is past.’ This does not, however, relate to those who have not heard and rejected the doctrine of the second advent.” {EW 45.3}

“It is a fearful thing to treat lightly the truth which has convinced our understanding and touched our hearts. We cannot with impunity reject the warnings which God in mercy sends us. A message was sent from heaven to the world in Noah’s day, and the salvation of men depended upon the manner in which they treated that message. Because they rejected the warning, the Spirit of God was withdrawn from the sinful race, and they perished in the waters of the flood. In the time of Abraham, mercy ceased to plead with the guilty inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot with his wife and two daughters were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven. So in the days of Christ. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, ‘Your house is left unto you desolate.’ Looking down to the last days, the same infinite power declares, concerning those who ‘received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved,’ ‘For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.’ As they reject the teachings of His Word, God withdraws His Spirit, and leaves them to the deceptions which they love.”] {EW 45.4}

.............

Yep so kind of not saying what you are pretending they are saying now are they when the context is added back in? Please get your facts right before posting dear friend.

Here's another failed prophecy she made about the return of Jesus This conference took place in 1856.

"I was shown the company present at the Conference, Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus."


(Ellen G. White, 1 Testimonies, p. 131-132. May 27, 1856.)

Almost all modern "prophets" say they're not prophets, claiming to make "predictions" instead. White did the same, but can anyone doubt she was making prophecies, & that many of them failed ?

Not really dear friend but here is why. The passage context here is always conditional to those living at that time believing and following Gods' Word as God directed. Here are the following statements

The Delay Explained

The long night of gloom is trying, but the morning is deferred in mercy, because if the Master should come so many would be found unready.—Testimonies for the Church 2:194 (1868). {LDE 37.4}

Had Adventists after the great disappointment in 1844 held fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward.... It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed.... {LDE 37.5}

For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord’s professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years.—Evangelism, 695, 696 (1883). {LDE 38.1}

Had the church of Christ done her appointed work as the Lord ordained, the whole world would before this have been warned and the Lord Jesus would have come to our earth in power and great glory.—The Desire of Ages, 633, 634 (1898). {LDE 38.2}

God’s Promises Are Conditional

The angels of God in their messages to men represent time as very short. [See Romans 13:11, 12; 1 Corinthians 7:29; 1 Thessalonians 4:15, 17; Hebrews 10:25; James 5:8, 9; 1 Peter 4:7; Revelation 22:6, 7.] Thus it has always been presented to me. It is true that time has continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message. Our Saviour did not appear as soon as we hoped. But has the Word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and threatenings of God are alike conditional. [See Jeremiah 18:7-10; Jonah 3:4-10.]... {LDE 38.3}

We may have to remain here in this world because of insubordination many more years, as did the children of Israel, but for Christ’s sake His people should not add sin to sin by charging God with the consequence of their own wrong course of action.—Evangelism, 695, 696 (1901). {LDE 39.1}

Well dear friend as shown above already everything you have provided in this thread has been shown to be taken out of context and not true. So I guess I am done with this thread as I do not see the point of it. Feel free if you would like to discuss scripture to send me a link but I have seen threads and websites like this one before and every time they are investigated they are only shown to be quotes taken out of context that have no truth in them, like many do with the scriptures.

Thanks for the discussion but this will be my last post to you. I will leave you with the last words as I think you need it more then I do. I hope these posts are a help to you.

Your welcome :)
 
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robycop3

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Well that is not true and I guess it depends if you believe the scriptures or not...

DANIEL 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

REVELATION 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Hope this helps.

As I told someone else, this refers to the "Great White Throne" Judgment which will happen when the millenium is over, just before God makes the earth's surface anew.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Another member asked me to prove EGW was a false prophet by posting some of her failed prophecies from her own words, So, here we go:

(Testimonies, Vol.1,p. 259).

(p. 260) Again, written during our Civil War.

After predicting the world would end in 1843, 1844, & 1845, & flopping, she wrote, (Early Writings, p.57)

More to come-these are all I have time for right now.
IMHO anyone and everyone other than the NT Authors since the time of Christ is a false prophet if they go on record speaking for God and predicting future events.

hope this helps !!!
 
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BobRyan

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(warning -- here comes 'wayyy too many bible texts' for anyone wanting to complaint without reading)

Dan 7
9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom

26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints

===========

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

===========

Romans 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

...13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

===================

Yes we DO see "Judgment" in all three cases.

Yes we DO see that the results are on the basis of looking at the facts , the record of what was "done in the body" whether good or evil.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

The point remains.

You are really making your religion seem like a cult.

Keep repeating until we believe.

typical cult

ok then for you ... next time I will post less Bible... should it be "A lot less" or just a little? I don't want to post more than a person is willing to read.
 
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BobRyan

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IMHO anyone and everyone other than the NT Authors since the time of Christ is a false prophet if they go on record speaking for God and predicting future events.

Because those NT authors said -

1 Cor 14
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

Which as we all know --- is the best way to condemn anyone who might have the gift of prophecy.

Almost as good as this --
1 Cor 14: 39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy

And then there is Christ Himself saying this

Matt 23
34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

With such outstanding Bible texts condemning prophesy it is no wonder that people want to avoid it.



Eph 4
11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

1 Cor 12
27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

1 Thess 4
19 Do not quench the Spirit; 20 do not despise prophetic utterances. 21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;


As is so often the case - the mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.
 
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