If i keep sinning am i not saved ?

Aspzan said:

I'm not trying to be snide but I am worried at the amount of people saying you can lose your salvation. More worrying is that people who believe this don't think they've lost their salvation. My belief is that if we could lose our salvation we would in about five minutes. Please read this link I posted earlier, this is what you'd have to do to lose your salvation:

How a Christian can Lose Salvation: 14 Step Plan

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Thank you for that link, I for one needed that reading.

Bible Highlighter said:

As for Romans 11:6:

This verse has to be read from the perspective that Paul is referring to the first process of salvation (Which is being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us - See: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is a process of salvation is commonly referred to as the “Justification.” This is an aspect of salvation whereby we are initially and foundationally saved by Jesus Christ by faith that is a process of salvation that is without the deeds of the Law. Paul is not referring to the second aspect or step in the salvation process called “Sanctification” because it is the next step that follows. We cannot put the cart before the horse. One must first be saved by God's grace without the deeds of the Law in order to be initially saved.

Romans 11:6 is trying to preach against “Law ALONE Salvationism” via by the 613 Laws of Moses (that did not include God's grace). While certain laws in the Law of Moses has been repeated in the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers, we are not under that contract or set of commands as a whole anymore. We look primarily to Jesus and His followers within the pages of the New Testament to obey God today. Okay, let's look at the verse:

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” (Romans 11:6).

So when Paul says if it be of grace, then it is no more works, he is referring to “Works ALONE Salvationism” (or Law ALONE Salvationism) that did not include any grace whatsoever. Paul is concerned with a person first being saved by God's grace in the 1st step or aspect of salvation. Sanctification will always follow or flow out of being saved by God's grace. This is why Paul is not mentioning being saved by works at this point.

In addition, the context is referring to Israel in how they needed to first be initially saved by God's grace. The Israelites who rejected their Messiah made salvation all about a system of “Works Alone Salvationism.”

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You're completely taking the verse out of context and adding to it something that is not there. You're making things too, complicated and confusing, and "God is not the author of confusion." It's not that complicated. It's really very simple. It can't be by both Grace and works and there is no scripture that says salvation is an ongoing process that requires a lot of work to continue to stay saved. Romans 11:6 simply says you're either saved 100% by grace or 100% by works. There's no such thing as being saved by both grace and works. That's the core message of the verse, nothing more and nothing less. So stop trying to add something in that's not there.

IntriKate said:

Thank you for that link, I for one needed that reading.

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Amen

Freed Man said:

You're completely taking the verse out of context and adding to it something that is not there. You're making things too, complicated and confusing, and "God is not the author of confusion." It's not that complicated. It's really very simple. It can't be by both Grace and works and there is no scripture that says salvation is an ongoing process that requires a lot of work to continue to stay saved. Romans 11:6 simply says you're either saved 100% by grace or 100% by works. There's no such thing as being saved by both grace and works. That's the core message of the verse, nothing more and nothing less. So stop trying to add something in that's not there.

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Well, it is called “giving the sense” (KJV uses the past tense of version of this by saying: “gave the sense” - Nehemiah 8:8). It is my giving of the interpretation upon Romans 11:6. This is done by looking at the whole counsel of God's Word and not just reading verses in a vacuum so as to justify sin and evil (Which is against the goodness of the Lord our God).

Peter says this about Paul's writings,

Paul is hard to understand according to Peter. He says that those who are unlearned and unstable are twisting Paul's words as they do also involving the other Scriptures to their own destruction.

But why would Peter mention Paul here?
Because Paul's words are easier to twist to justify a sin and still be saved doctrine. They can make Romans 11:6 to teach that they can sin and still be saved, when that is not what Paul meant. Paul says elsewhere, “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” (Romans 6:1-2). Paul also says, “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16). Paul also says, “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

Now, remember 2 Peter 3:16 about those who twist Paul's words? Back in 2 Peter chapter 2, Peter mentions false prophets, and false teachers (2 Peter 2:1), and then mentions in verse 14 the following characteristics of them, saying:


Jesus says,
28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”
(Matthew 5:28-30).

Jesus says,
“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

Jesus says,
“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
(Luke 6:46) (Note: Read the following verses for this verse).

Some say that we do not have to obey the words of Jesus because Paul gave us a new way that was different than Jesus.

But Paul says,
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, ...”
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Are you teaching contrary to the wholesome words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness? Paul says if a person does this, they are proud and they know nothing. This is scary because James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

Paul also says,
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

Does your version of grace teach this?

Paul also says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22). Jesus defines the way in how He wants to be loved according to John 14:15.

Jesus says,
“If ye love me, keep my commandments.” (John 14:15).

Paul even mentions how the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God, and then he lists various sins to fit the description (sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, lying, etc.) (See: Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and Colossians 3:5-6).

So I am not exactly sure why you think Romans 11:6 teaches turning God's grace into a license for immorality (By doing nothing for our Lord and yet we are still saved). Jude 1:4 warns against turning God's grace into a license for immorality.

Freed Man said:

Amen

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These people can complicate and discourage but they can't ever take away the gift Jesus gave us. I struggle at times feeling worthy enough for God and yet i know in my heart under it all that he didn't die an agonising death for his children just to discard them for the very thing he freed us from.

IntriKate said:

These people...

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You mean Christians who quote Scripture.

“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2 Timothy 4:2).

You said:

...can complicate

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“The simple believeth every word:
but the prudent man looketh well to his going.” (Proverbs 14:15).

You said:

...and discourage

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The Bible says we are not to be weary (i.e. discouraged) in well doing (i.e. doing good).

“And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:9).

The Bible does not say we should not be discouraged in not worrying about our sin and or not be discouraged in not worrying in doing good while we trust in Jesus alone.

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid...” (Romans 6:1-2).

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;”
(Titus 2:11-12).

You said:

but they can't ever take away the gift Jesus gave us.

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Well, I certainly cannot take away God's gift from anyone, but God can certainly can do so if they go back to justifying sin and evil.

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26).

Now, I do believe God's grace is a free gift as Scripture says (Ephesians 2:8). Gifts are received, and then we do works of responsibility to take care of those gifts.

Let me give you an example:

If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

Here is another example:

If Billy-Bob prayed for a wife for many years and he eventually receive a wife from the Lord and consider her as a gift, then that does not mean Billy-Bob can cheat on her and or not love her and expect for her to stay with him. It is the same with God. Disloyalty to GOD means we do not really love GOD and we just love ourselves more than Him. GOD calls us to obedience to His Word. This was the problem that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. But men today want to say that we can break God's commands and they will not die. This was the same lie that the enemy was trying to sell Eve on. The serpent told her that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Which was a violation of God's command).

You said:

I struggle at times feeling worthy enough for God and yet i know in my heart under it all that he didn't die an agonising death for his children just to discard them for the very thing he freed us from.

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Unworthiness and justifying sin are two different things. If a believer struggles with not feeling worthy of God, they do need to trust in His grace more and believe that He died for their sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for their salvation. They need to quote and trust in those grace verses. It's faith thing. But once we fully trusted God's grace, we must seek to obey the Lord. If we mess up, we can confess our sins to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9). His mercies are new every morning. But if we falsely believe those greasy grace preachers that say that “Jesus paid for future sin and we do not need to worry about our sin or in doing nothing for the Lord,” how can His mercies be: “new every morning” if we do not confess of our sin, and ask God for help in forsaking them? 1 John 1:9 is a promise you can bank on. So we need to confess to be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness. If we honestly struggle with sin, the Lord can help us overcome if we seek forgiveness with Him and ask for His help and never give up in doing so. We can even honestly mess up a lot. But we cannot justify sin. We cannot think we are going to sin tomorrow as a matter of fact. We have to battle against sin because it can destroy us. Sure, God is patient with us. God is longsuffering towards us and He can forgive a lot, but this includes us to eventually to repent, though. For it is written:

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9).

In other words, we have to accept the whole counsel of God's Word and not just those verses we prefer to see from our slanted viewpoint that seems more comforting. If you believe you do not need to worry about sin because Jesus paid for it all, then that gives you a license to sin. God would have to agree with you in having a license to do sin and evil. But can God agree with sin and evil? Surely not. God is good, and holy and He cannot justify a person in doing that which is wrong. Now, if you make a mistake and seek His forgiveness, and ask for His help to overcome such sin, then that is different. God can forgive if we seek forgiveness with Him.

IntriKate said:

These people can complicate and discourage but they can't ever take away the gift Jesus gave us. I struggle at times feeling worthy enough for God and yet i know in my heart under it all that he didn't die an agonising death for his children just to discard them for the very thing he freed us from.

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Yes. Jesus came to take away our sin. "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." And to give us the free gift of eternal life. Nobody and nothing can ever take that free gift away from us. "For I am persuaded that neither death nor Life, nor angels, nor principalities nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the Love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

Bible Highlighter said:

Because Paul's words are easier to twist to justify a sin and still be saved doctrine.

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I don't preach a "sin and still be saved doctrine." I preach a "repent of your sins and ask God's forgiveness and accept Jesus' atonement for your sins so He can give you His free gift of everlasting Life doctrine". I don't sin because the blood of Jesus has cleansed me from all sins. I am forgiven for my sins. Thank-you Jesus. People like you are people who praise themselves for being righteous and who have the ability to not sin on their own. which is directly contrary to the verse Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". People like you think you deserve to go to Heaven because of your good works. Whereas the scripture says, nobody deserves to go to Heaven. That's why the only way to be saved and make it to heaven is to have your sins forgiven not by trying to be good enough to deserve it.

Bible Highlighter said:

This is done by looking at the whole counsel of God's Word and not just reading verses in a vacuum so as to justify sin and evil

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Nobody's justifying sin and evil. I don't need to justify myself, because Jesus has already justified me by Faith, "And by Him (Jesus) all that believe are justified from all things, which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:39
"Being justified freely by His Grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Romans 3:24
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by Faith without the deeds of the law". Romans 3:28
"Therefore being justified by Faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1
"Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" Romans 5:9
"And such were some of you, but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." 1Corinthians 6:11
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the Faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the Faith of Christ and not by the works of the law, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:16

So it's not about justifying sin and evil. It's about whether you believe we are justified by Grace through Faith in Jesus, or whether you believe you can justify yourself by not sinning by keeping the law of Moses. The scriptures that I just quoted make it very plain that we are justified by grace through faith in Jesus and not by obeying the law.

"Behold, the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world." Jesus takes away our sins by faith because we believe in Him. We don't take away our own sins by being good, or obeying the law.

Bible Highlighter said:

So I am not exactly sure why you think Romans 11:6 teaches turning God's grace into a license for immorality (By doing nothing for our Lord and yet we are still saved). Jude 1:4 warns against turning God's grace into a license for immorality.

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Here, you're lying through your teeth by making a false accusation. And in Revelations it says, "and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with brimstone; which is the second death." Rev. 21:8 So, I guess since you insist on claiming you have to obey every tiny rule or you'll lose your salvation, that means you must have lost your salvation and now we all know where you're going.

You're making a false accusation here, which means you're lying, because I never said or even hinted that Romans 11:6 teaches us to turn God's grace into a license for immorality. I merely said what the verse says, and I accepted it as Truth, unlike you who tried to weasel your way out of the truth of that verse by misinterpreting it in order to fit your false doctrine that you can save yourself with good works or that you can be partly saved by both grace and works. The verse simply says you can't be saved by both grace and works, it's either 100% by grace or 100% by works. Not saved by 50% grace and 50% works. And the bible clearly states that we're saved by grace, not works. That's what the verse says, so stop trying to weasel your way out of it.

Freed Man said:

Yes. Jesus came to take away our sin. "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world."

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Well, you are confusing Provisional Atonement verses with Justification verses.

The Bible describes 4 different aspects of salvation.

#1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.).

#2. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#3. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

#4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly applied Justification and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).


Conclusion:

Justification, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are justified, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement), then we will be glorified.

Freed Man said:

And to give us the free gift of eternal life.

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Eternal life is not a superpower given to a person,
and neither is it a magical wish granted to an individual.
Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ.
For Christ alone has immortality.


Eternal life can only be possessed if one has the Son.


This verse is saying that the person who does not have the Son does not have eternal life.

How do we have the assurance in knowing the Son in order to have eternal life?


Verse 3 essentially says that we can know the Lord (the Son) if find that we are keeping his commandments.

Verse 4 essentially says that the person who says they know the Lord (the Son), and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar, and the truth is not in them.

You said:

Nobody and nothing can ever take that free gift away from us.

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Well, that's just not true. Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)

Even Paul (the famous grace teacher) is against Eternal Security.
For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
   
   
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
   
   
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
   
   
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
   
   
6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).
   
   
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
   
   
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
   
   
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
   
   
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

You said:

"For I am persuaded that neither death nor Life, nor angels, nor principalities nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the Love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

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Notice that all things present in this passage are all external things that cannot separate a believer from Christ. The passage does not mention internal things like: “the believer himself” or “the believer's sin.” Jesus clearly taught sin can destroy our souls in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46. Even Paul taught that sin can destroy our souls, too (See: Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Colossians 3:5-6).

Also, if you were to skip back up and read Romans 8:13, it says:


Basically this verse is saying that if one lives after the flesh (sin), they will die spiritually, and if they through the Spirit put to death (mortify) the deeds of the body, they will live eternally.

But if Jesus paid for all future sin as you teach, then this verse does not make much sense.

Freed Man said:

I don't preach a "sin and still be saved doctrine."

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Well, you imply future sin is forgiven for a believer by confusing a Provisional Atonement verse with Justification.

So if you teach that a person is forgiven of their future sin, then they will think that they will have a license to sin on some level. So I beg to differ.

You said:

I preach a "repent of your sins and ask God's forgiveness and accept Jesus' atonement for your sins so He can give you His free gift of everlasting Life doctrine".

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Many people have different views of what the word “repent” means. Most of them have an unbiblical understanding on that word.

Some teach that to “repent” is to believe in Jesus.
Some teach that to “repent” is to change your old way of thinking.
Some teach that to “repent” is forsaking sin alone.

Yet, none of these definitions for the word “repent” are biblical.

My Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that repentance means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin."

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:


#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follows true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

Spending time with God is the only way we can have our minds and hearts changed by his Holy Spirit and that's what helps us fight sin and in that walk he knows us. He picks us up when we stumble. He doesn't know us if we think we are sinless and perfected ourselves. I believe theres a big surprise away from Gods presence awaiting those who try to twist and remove the simplicity of his love and in doing so do a lot of damage.

Freed Man said:

ask God's forgiveness

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Let me ask you. If a husband cheated on his wife, and he just asked for forgiveness for cheating on her, and yet he had no real intention of ever stopping, would he really be sorry? Would he really be seeking forgiveness? No, of course not. See, a person cannot ask for forgiveness towards another for something bad that they are going to do towards them. That would be like a serial killer saying he is sorry to the tied up man he is about to kill. Is this serial killer really sorry as he is about to slice up his next victim? Surely not.

You said:

I don't sin because the blood of Jesus has cleansed me from all sins. I am forgiven for my sins. Thank-you Jesus.

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“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8).

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).

In fact, what condition is needed in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin?

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7).

According to 1 John 1:7: You have to “walk in the light” in order to have the blood of Jesus cleanse you of all sin.

What is walking in the light mean?

1 John 2:9-11 basically tells us indirectly that “walking in the light” = “loving our brother.”

1 John 3:10 and 1 John 3:15 confirms this truth.

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

1 John 3:15 says, “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

People like you...

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Actually, you mean a Christian who preaches God's Word.

are people who praise themselves for being righteous

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Actually, that is false slander. I do not believe that way. I think it is wrong for a believer to boast in themselves. I think a believer can only boast in Jesus Christ and the good work He does within them. Any or all good works a true and faithful believer does is actually the Lord working through them. It's why Jesus said, “without me ye can do nothing.” (John 15:5).

and who have the ability to not sin on their own.

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I don't believe a believer can stop committing grievous sin on their own, but I do believe that a believer can stop committing grievous sin by the power and working of God. Ever read Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and or 2 Corinthians 7:1 lately?

You said:

which is directly contrary to the verse Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

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Right, so if you believe that Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 applies to the present day life of the believer who lives out his faith, then that means you believe that Romans 3:11 also applies to the present day life of the believer, too.

“There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” (Romans 3:23).

Are you saying that believers who walk with Christ do not have any understanding and they do not seek after God? This is what you have to accept if you accept Romans 3:11, and Romans 3:23 as referring to the present day life of the believer.

People like you

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Again, I am not an ordinary person. I am Christian who believes the whole counsel of God's Word.

You said:

think you deserve to go to Heaven because of your good works.

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I don't have any good works of my own alone. It is only God who can do the good work through me. For God alone is good. That is what the Sanctification Process is all about after we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ.

You said:

Whereas the scripture says, nobody deserves to go to Heaven.

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It doesn't sound a like a verse I ever heard before.
Quote the verse please.

You said:

That's why the only way to be saved and make it to heaven is to have your sins forgiven not by trying to be good enough to deserve it.

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1. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).
   
   
2. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
   
   
3. A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).
   
   
4. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).
   
   
5. Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).
   
   
6. We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).
   
   
7. Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).
   
   
8. Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).
   
   
9. Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).
   
   
10. Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).
    
    
11. If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).
    
    
12. Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

Bible Highlighter said:

So I am not exactly sure why you think Romans 11:6 teaches turning God's grace into a license for immorality (By doing nothing for our Lord and yet we are still saved). Jude 1:4 warns against turning God's grace into a license for immorality.

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Freed Man said:

Here, you're lying through your teeth by making a false accusation. And in Revelations it says, "and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with brimstone; which is the second death." Rev. 21:8 So, I guess since you insist on claiming you have to obey every tiny rule or you'll lose your salvation, that means you must have lost your salvation and now we all know where you're going.

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You said that Jesus takes away the sin of the world and implied that you don't sin because you are forgiven of all sin by Jesus. So this means that you believe you are forgiven of future sin on the account of Christ's sacrifice. If you were to teach this to others, they can easily take what you are teaching here and believe that they have a license to sin because they are forgiven of future sin (Whether you want that to happen or not).

Here is a quote from a Christian article:

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

Many Born Again and Evangelical members believe that in order to be saved, the only thing which we should do is to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior by faith. And once you accepted Him through faith, you have now an assured salvation in heaven. No need of good works or following the commandments of God, but through faith alone, we will be saved according to them.

Sorry to say this, but I think this kind of belief is not just unbiblical but shameful, careless and dirty in its entire content. Imagine a person who thinks he was already saved and destined to heaven no matter what he will do, whether he do evil or not. Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church where he sat quietly for many years, listening to the deceptions of his preacher. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,

“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.“

And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.

Source:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

IntriKate said:

Spending time with God is the only way we can have our minds and hearts changed by his Holy Spirit and that's what helps us fight sin and in that walk he knows us. He picks us up when we stumble. He doesn't know us if we think we are sinless and perfected ourselves. I believe theres a big surprise away from Gods presence awaiting those who try to twist and remove the simplicity of his love and in doing so do a lot of damage.

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Well, if you started to read your Bible more closely and you asked God to give you the understanding on it, you will find that your belief cannot be found within the Scriptures. Jesus did not take away our future sin for us to not worry about sin just because we have a belief alone in Jesus for salvation. It doesn't work like that. Yes, we are saved by God's grace, but Titus 2:11-12 says that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

1 John 5:16-17 talks about how there is a “sin not unto death” and a “sin unto death.” So I don't believe all sin condemns. Paul was not condemned when he disobeyed the Spirit in going to Jerusalem. Water baptism was never a salvation issue, etc. I cannot imagine a believer being condemned for not taking the trash out last night like they were supposed to, or going a few miles over the speed limit without paying attention. Granted, I think we should seek to obey even these things. So I am not saying to disregard small matters. But we do have to meet the bare minimum level requirement of holy living according to the Bible. We do have to obey those commands that the Bible warns that if we do not obey them, we will be condemned with hell fire or punishment in the afterlife. John 12:48 says that if we do not receive the words of Jesus, those very words will judge us on the last day.

Paul says, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Sure, believers can struggle with sin. But they need to fight and battle against sin with the goal of overcoming that grievous sin that the Bible attaches with warnings of hellfire. If they do not overcome in time in their Christian walk and they decide to then justify sin, they are not going to make it. Note: “Grievous sin” would be sins what the Catholics call “mortal sin.” While I believe Catholicism is highly unbiblical, it ironic that they understand the need for the whole Sanctification for salvation teaching in Scripture (Even though we are not saved by any church traditions as they wrongfully claim). We are not saved by the keeping of the Catholic Eucharist, etc.; I believe we are to follow the Bible alone and not any one particular religion or church group today.

Side Note:

As for your mention in spending time with God:
Well, that is not a determination of understanding truth in the Bible. Many people of many religions say they spend time with God or worship Him, etc. but if they are not following what the Bible says, the simple truth is they are not following God's instructions within His Word and they are doing their own thing. I believe that if we are honest with ourselves and we ask God to show us the truth within His Word (Regardless of whether that is a truth we like or not), God will show it to us if we are truly seeking for such a truth. But if we are comfortable in what greasy grace preachers teach these days, and we do not want to see what the whole counsel of His Word says, then we are never going to see it (no matter how much one will make time in spending with God). I believe spending time with God would be obeying Him.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” (John 14:23).

The thing is.... do you believe this verse above?

It is deceiving to suppose that nothing is required of us: we must needs listen to what the Lord Jesus Christ says and nothing wavering; not what others say what they think He says, but only and exclusively what He says, for He has the last Word, and not us.

lastofall said:

It is deceiving to suppose that nothing is required of us: we must needs listen to what the Lord Jesus Christ says and nothing wavering; not what others say what they think He says, but only and exclusively what He says, for He has the last Word, and not us.

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I agree. Even my recommendations should be discarded in regards to what the Lord says (if you find that my words do not line up with His).

My thoughts on the “sin not unto death” (that extends beyond 1 John 5) is a bit of a mysterious issue. We should seek to obey God even the smallest matters. But the point here is that the Bible does not list how any fault of our character like not taking the trash out on time can condemn us, or going over the speed limit a little without paying attention will lead to hellfire. For our we perfectly loving all our neighbors in the surrounding area in which we live? Will this condemn us if we are working on other efforts to reach the lost and to help the brethren? Are we always loving, and ministering to all people we meet? Will these things condemn us? Granted, I am not saying we should not do such things, but we have to realize that we as believers need to grow and mature while under God's grace. Granted, we cannot disobey God's commands like: Do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not steal, etc. I believe we cannot refuse to help the poor, or refuse to spread the gospel in some way. I believe we must love God and love our neighbor. I believe there is a certain bare minimum level requirement of living holy according to what the Bible says. John 12:48 says that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day. Meaning, it appears that I can only be condemned by what our Lord specifically says. So if Jesus says not to look upon a woman in lust or your whole body will be cast into hellfire, I must believe those words. But where does He talk about unintentionally going over the speed limit a little? Granted, I should obey the law of the land and make my best efforts to be better in all things for God. But I believe God has to be merciful on the little things that are not mentioned in His Word, otherwise nobody would make it into His kingdom.

Bible Highlighter said:

You said that Jesus takes away the sin of the world and implied that you don't sin because you are forgiven of all sin by Jesus. So this means that you believe you are forgiven of future sin on the account of Christ's sacrifice. If you were to teach this to others, they can easily take what you are teaching here and believe that they have a license to sin because they are forgiven of future sin (Whether you want that to happen or not).

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I haven't yet met a true born again Christian who believes in once saved always saved who has the attitude that this gives him a license to do evil. That's just something cooked up by the NOSAS camp to justify their false doctrine that you have to have good works in order to be saved. A true Christian is someone who repents of their sins and makes a confession of faith in Jesus and will be thankful that Jesus died for them and saved them from the lowest Hell. They will want to follow Jesus commandment to love one another, and even love their enemies. And they will strive for the mastery, to run the race that is set before them, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of their faith, who, for the joy that was set before Him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of God. They will do this because they are thankful to Jesus for His great sacrifice for them and because they know there is a reward in Heaven for them once this life is over. Some people who are saved will be ashamed and embarrassed when they get to heaven because of the nothing they did for the Lord, and others will shine as the brightness of the firmament and as the stars forever and ever. I, for one, want to be one of those who shine and not one of those ashamed. All that to say there is plenty of incentive to live for the Lord and obey His commandments even though we believe you can't lose your Salvation every time you make a mistake or commit some sin. So your assumption that if we believe once saved, always saved that there is no more incentive to obey Jesus and live for Him is a false assumption.

One thing I don't understand is why you don't believe that you sin enough to be cast into hell. Everybody's a sinner, as numerous scripture tell us as I've already quoted you in other posts. You can never be good enough to deserve heaven no matter how hard you try. So, why try? Just follow Jesus and do the best you can and don't get condemned for sins and/or mistakes you might make. How can you believe that if you sin once your saved that you can lose your salvation. It doesn't make sense because we're all sinners. If we could lose our salvation by sinning then everybody would lose their salvation seconds after they get saved. If you could lose your salvation by sinning, you've already lost it and you're bound for Hell, because you yourself are an evil, filthy, scumbag sinner even though yoiu, in your holier than thou self-righteousness think that you're not.