Resurrection, First Resurrection and New Birth

claninja

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I think you like playing God.You go ahead and judge me.

Me asking you simple questions about Christianity in order to understand your interpretation is not judging you. But I find it interesting that you believe that to be the case.

Since you won’t actually address my questions. What I can garner is that you believe not being hurt by the 2nd and being a kingdom of priests only applies to the beheaded martyrs And possibly those who sit on thrones During the future literal 1,000 years and not Christians in general, despite the gospels and epistles declaring it as a truth for all Christians ( John 11:25-26, 1 Peter 2:5,9).

this most likely stems from the fact that if you actually answer yes to the questions I asked, it would demonstrate that revelation 20:6 can apply to you, and therefore disproving your interpretation of the passage.

so again

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?
 
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shilohsfoal

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Me asking you simple questions about Christianity in order to understand your interpretation is not judging you. But I find it interesting that you believe that to be the case.

Since you won’t actually address my questions. What I can garner is that you believe not being hurt by the 2nd and being a kingdom of priests only applies to the beheaded martyrs And possibly those who sit on thrones During the future literal 1,000 years and not Christians in general, despite the gospels and epistles declaring it as a truth for all Christians ( John 11:25-26, 1 Peter 2:5,9).

this most likely stems from the fact that if you actually answer yes to the questions I asked, it would demonstrate that revelation 20:6 can apply to you, and therefore disproving your interpretation of the passage.

so again

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

Actually my understanding is that the authors you quote were not given the revelation of Jesus christ. In fact Christ waited till after the deaths of the apostles save John to whom it was given. Paul, Peter never knew of the latter resurrection. They only knew of the first which they would have heard from prophets sent to Israel. I don't expect you to understand.
 
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claninja

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Paul, Peter never knew of the latter resurrection. They only knew of the first which they would have heard from prophets sent to Israel. I don't expect you to understand.

Paul and Peter didn’t know about the Latter resurrection of dead when the earth and heavens would disappear,when death would be destroyed?

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-14 - Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20:11-14 - English Standard Version

That’s simply not true. Peter looked forward to the heavens and earth being removed at the coming of Christ

waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the elements will melt as they burn!
2 Peter 3:12 - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 3:12 - English Standard Version

Paul stated the resurrection would occur at the last enemy’s death, defeat.

For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1 Corinthians 15:25-26 - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:25-26 - English Standard Version

Both Paul and Peter demonstrate that the latter resurrection occurs at removal of the heavens and earth when death is defeated, In agreement with revelation 20. and therefore your claim is not true.

As to the first resurrection:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?
 
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shilohsfoal

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Paul and Peter didn’t know about the Latter resurrection of dead when the earth and heavens would disappear,when death would be destroyed?

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-14 - Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20:11-14 - English Standard Version

That’s simply not true. Peter looked forward to the heavens and earth being removed at the coming of Christ

waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the elements will melt as they burn!
2 Peter 3:12 - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 3:12 - English Standard Version

Paul stated the resurrection would occur at the last enemy’s death, defeat.

For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1 Corinthians 15:25-26 - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:25-26 - English Standard Version

Both Paul and Peter demonstrate that the latter resurrection occurs at removal of the heavens and earth when death is defeated, In agreement with revelation 20. and therefore your claim is not true.

As to the first resurrection:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?


I said Paul and Peter did not know about the latter resurrection. I didn't say the other things you said.

Paul and Peter only knew about Israel's resurrection. That's it.

As for the first resurrection. That is for those who were beheaded for thier testimony of Jesus and who had not worshiped the beast or his image. You know, those guys you never want to talk about. The ones you avoid to talk about because your not one of them.
 
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claninja

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I said Paul and Peter did not know about the latter resurrection

I know you said that. And I disagreed.

Per revelation, the latter resurrection involves 1.) the heavens and earth fleeing and 2.) death be destroyed.

Revelation 20:11-12 Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.

Revelation 20: 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire

Peter speaks of the heavens and earth disappearing, which shows that he in fact did know about the latter resurrection, contrary to your claim.

2 Peter 3:12-13 as you anticipate and hasten the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Paul speaks of the death being destroyed, which shows that he in fact did know about the latter resurrection, contrary to your claim.

1 corinthians 15:25-26 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

I didn't say the other things you said.

What other things?

Paul and Peter only knew about Israel's resurrection. That's it.

What evidence do you have for this?

As for the first resurrection. That is for those who were beheaded for thier testimony of Jesus and who had not worshiped the beast or his image. You know, those guys you never want to talk about. The ones you avoid to talk about because your not one of them.

I never stated I was a martyr. My head has never been cut off. As already stated multiple times now, I believe the martyrs represent those who have been persecuted for Christ. They partake in the first resurrection. As a result, the 2nd death will never hurt them and they will be a kingdom of priests.


Now will answer the questions you have been dodging this entire time? I'm not sure why you keep responding to me, if you don't want to answer the questions..........

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?


 
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shilohsfoal

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I know you said that. And I disagreed.

Per revelation, the latter resurrection involves 1.) the heavens and earth fleeing and 2.) death be destroyed.

Revelation 20:11-12 Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.

Revelation 20: 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire

Peter speaks of the heavens and earth disappearing, which shows that he in fact did know about the latter resurrection, contrary to your claim.

2 Peter 3:12-13 as you anticipate and hasten the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Paul speaks of the death being destroyed, which shows that he in fact did know about the latter resurrection, contrary to your claim.

1 corinthians 15:25-26 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.



What other things?



What evidence do you have for this?



I never stated I was a martyr. My head has never been cut off. As already stated multiple times now, I believe the martyrs represent those who have been persecuted for Christ. They partake in the first resurrection. As a result, the 2nd death will never hurt them and they will be a kingdom of priests.


Now will answer the questions you have been dodging this entire time? I'm not sure why you keep responding to me, if you don't want to answer the questions..........

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?


I've already answered your question. As a result of my answer someone else agreed with me. See my earlier answer because I'm not going to continue to answer the same question over and over.
In fact I would say it's time our conversations ended.
 
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claninja

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I've already answered your question. As a result of my answer someone else agreed with me. See my earlier answer because I'm not going to continue to answer the same question over and over.
I'm fact I would say it's time our conversations ended.

In that case, can you reference, which post number you specifically answered yes or no To whether or not 1.)Can the 2nd death can no longer hurt and 2.) are you a member of Gods priesthood?

I can’t seem to find that one. But if you did and can show me which post number that was, I will concede
 
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Ed Parenteau

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I said Paul and Peter did not know about the latter resurrection. I didn't say the other things you said.

Paul and Peter only knew about Israel's resurrection. That's it.

Jesus said this at the last supper when all his disciples were there.
John 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.

Jude 1:
3Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
If the faith had been once for all delivered to the saints, then Jude has to be the last book written, unless you claim that the Revelation is not a part of the faith.
Tradition is just wrong.
 
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shilohsfoal

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Jesus said this at the last supper when all his disciples were there.
John 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.

Jude 1:
3Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
If the faith had been once for all delivered to the saints, then Jude has to be the last book written, unless you claim that the Revelation is not a part of the faith.
Tradition is just wrong.

Revelation 1:1 KJV: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


I'm not sure what you mean about revelation not being part of your faith.It was written in about 96 ad.
It's a book of prophecy.

Revelation 10:11 KJV: And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

John was not only sent to preach the gospel like the other apostles, he also was sent to deliver this book of prophecy which the others were not given.
John just had alittle something extra to do.

John 21:21 KJV: Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
John 21:22 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
 
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keras

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In that case, can you reference, which post number you specifically answered yes or no To whether or not 1.)Can the 2nd death can no longer hurt and 2.) are you a member of Gods priesthood?
The Second death, is to be thrown into the Eternal Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:14
Therefore; the first death, which all mortals must experience, is not the final Death for the faithful people of God. They will receive immortality at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
1 Cor 15:50-56, does tell there will be some Godly people who will never experience Death at all, those who are alive at the end of the Mill.

Revelation 20:4 says the martyrs killed during the 42 month Great Trib, will be raised back to life and will reign with Jesus for the Millennium. They do not yet receive immortality and so can die again during the Mill.
But over then the Second Death has no hold.... [the Lake of Fire] because their names are Witten in the Book of Life and they will then become immortal.

Those resurrected martyrs and the living people who have proved their faith thru all the trials and testing, will reign with Jesus on earth and into Eternity. Revelation 7:15-17 & 22:3-4

Claninja, it is time you ceased your provocative and unpleasant posts against all whose beliefs oppose your preterist ideas. Let it go and we will all soon see the truth of God's Plans, as they come to pass over the next decade.
 
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claninja

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The Second death, is to be thrown into the Eternal Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:14

the 2nd death is not thrown into the lake of fire. The 2nd death is the lake of fire:

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14 - Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20:14 - English Standard Version


The Second death, is to be thrown into the Eternal Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:14
Therefore; the first death, which all mortals must experience, is not the final Death for the faithful people of God. They will receive immortality at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
1 Cor 15:50-56, does tell there will be some Godly people who will never experience Death at all, those who are alive at the end of the Mill.

Revelation 20:4 says the martyrs killed during the 42 month Great Trib, will be raised back to life and will reign with Jesus for the Millennium. They do not yet receive immortality and so can die again during the Mill.
But over then the Second Death has no hold.... [the Lake of Fire] because their names are Witten in the Book of Life and they will then become immortal.

Those resurrected martyrs and the living people who have proved their faith thru all the trials and testing, will reign with Jesus on earth and into Eternity. Revelation 7:15-17 & 22:3-4

Claninja, it is time you ceased your provocative and unpleasant posts against all whose beliefs oppose your preterist ideas. Let it go and we will all soon see the truth of God's Plans, as they come to pass over the next decade.

No arguments here that preterists and futurists disagree on eschatology.


However This doesn’t answer my 2 simple “Yes or no” questions.

1.) as a Christian, can the 2nd death no longer hurt you ?

2.) as a Christian, are you a member of the royal priesthood to God?

my answers: 1.) yes based on John 11:25-36 2.) yes Based on 1 Peter 2:5,9

Shilohsfoal didn’t want to answer.

what are your answers,Keras?
 
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Ed Parenteau

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It is my contention that the Revelation was written before Jude because "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ". And if the faith was "once and for all delivered", then the word that it comes from must also be delivered despite the hearsay that the Revelation was seen in 96. That tradition is held as if it were scripture itself and therefore people "nullify the word of God by your tradition" as Jesus told the Pharisees.

I don't see any exclusivity in Rev 1, only that John was to be the one who would see disseminate the vision in specifics as to what "must shortly come to pass"
Do you believe that it "shortly came to pass?" I ask you this, to find out which you believe more, the Bible or tradition. Tradition usually either adds the word "begin" to it or replaces it with "a day is like a thousand years..." and if you repeat that often enough even though it has a completely different meaning, people believe it as true.

The John of 21:21 and 22 is actually Lazarus. Start with John 11 and search the "one whom Jesus loved"
John 11: 2It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill. 3So the sisters sent to him, saying, “Lord, he whom you love is ill.”
34And he said, “Where have you laid him?” They said to him, “Lord, come and see.” 35Jesus wept. 36So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!”
20Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” 21When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” 22Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” 23So the saying spread abroad among the brothersb that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?”

24This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
It does appear Lazarus had a "ghost writer" based on the last clause.

And do you believe that he lived until Jesus came?

 
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Timtofly

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It is my contention that the Revelation was written before Jude because "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ". And if the faith was "once and for all delivered", then the word that it comes from must also be delivered despite the hearsay that the Revelation was seen in 96. That tradition is held as if it were scripture itself and therefore people "nullify the word of God by your tradition" as Jesus told the Pharisees.

I don't see any exclusivity in Rev 1, only that John was to be the one who would see disseminate the vision in specifics as to what "must shortly come to pass"
Do you believe that it "shortly came to pass?" I ask you this, to find out which you believe more, the Bible or tradition. Tradition usually either adds the word "begin" to it or replaces it with "a day is like a thousand years..." and if you repeat that often enough even though it has a completely different meaning, people believe it as true.

The John of 21:21 and 22 is actually Lazarus. Start with John 11 and search the "one whom Jesus loved"
John 11: 2It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill. 3So the sisters sent to him, saying, “Lord, he whom you love is ill.”
34And he said, “Where have you laid him?” They said to him, “Lord, come and see.” 35Jesus wept. 36So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!”
20Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” 21When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” 22Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” 23So the saying spread abroad among the brothersb that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?”

24This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
It does appear Lazarus had a "ghost writer" based on the last clause.

And do you believe that he lived until Jesus came?
Jesus can love more than one person.

John will die soon.

Why is any of this important to even Peter the leader of the group, even less so, for the church 1990 years later?
 
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Timtofly

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2.) as a Christian, are you a member of the royal priesthood to God?
This is the command of every believer. Most churches do not teach this, failing to make disciples in accordance with the great commission. Spreading the Gospel was the main command as individual priest. Trying to live comfortably in this world has been the priority for hundreds of years. Making disciples has failed, as many young people reject even their upbringing, which may have been the closest thing to being a priest, in their life. Every individual has to make that choice on their own, but most think (or were taught) it is just carrying on a tradition, and not a choice at all. If it is the tradition, they rejected, there is hope. If they rejected God, it may be too late to do anything.
 
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shilohsfoal

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It is my contention that the Revelation was written before Jude because "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ". And if the faith was "once and for all delivered", then the word that it comes from must also be delivered despite the hearsay that the Revelation was seen in 96. That tradition is held as if it were scripture itself and therefore people "nullify the word of God by your tradition" as Jesus told the Pharisees.

I don't see any exclusivity in Rev 1, only that John was to be the one who would see disseminate the vision in specifics as to what "must shortly come to pass"
Do you believe that it "shortly came to pass?" I ask you this, to find out which you believe more, the Bible or tradition. Tradition usually either adds the word "begin" to it or replaces it with "a day is like a thousand years..." and if you repeat that often enough even though it has a completely different meaning, people believe it as true.

The John of 21:21 and 22 is actually Lazarus. Start with John 11 and search the "one whom Jesus loved"
John 11: 2It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill. 3So the sisters sent to him, saying, “Lord, he whom you love is ill.”
34And he said, “Where have you laid him?” They said to him, “Lord, come and see.” 35Jesus wept. 36So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!”
20Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” 21When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” 22Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” 23So the saying spread abroad among the brothersb that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?”

24This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
It does appear Lazarus had a "ghost writer" based on the last clause.

And do you believe that he lived until Jesus came?

From what I've read John lived to be very old. Then he died. He was asked to give an account for the gospel and the account he gave is what we know as the gospel according to John.
But his testimony remains with us today, and something very special known as the revelation of Jesus Christ, which will be understood by many when the time is right.

Revelation 10:11 And they told me, "You must prophesy again about many peoples and nations and tongues and kings."
Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the number of worshipers there.
Revelation 11:2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months.


When those Gentiles begin to occupy Jerusalem, Alot of people will start paying attention to John's writings.

Daniel 11:33 KJV: And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
 
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the 2nd death is not thrown into the lake of fire. The 2nd death is the lake of fire:
Agreed.
However This doesn’t answer my 2 simple “Yes or no” questions.

1.) as a Christian, can the 2nd death no longer hurt you ?

2.) as a Christian, are you a member of the royal priesthood to God?

my answers: 1.) yes based on John 11:25-36 2.) yes Based on 1 Peter 2:5,9

Shilohsfoal didn’t want to answer.

what are your answers,Keras?
1/ All faithful born again believing Christians, will have their names Written in the Book of Life. This gives them Eternal life at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
2/ Yes, but only Spiritually for now. After Jesus Returns, then we will be His priests and co-rulers. Isaiah 66:21, Revelation 5:9-10

Thanks for your greatly improved attitude.
 
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