Elijah's altar

chunkofcoal

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Has anyone ever studied Elijah's altar? I think there is a deeper meaning to it, and that it pointed to a future time, and to a future time.

1Ki 18:30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down.


Is this connected to?:
Mat 17:10-11 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? (11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

1Ki 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
I think, since this is stated here, it is significant.

1Ki 18:32-35 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. (33) And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. (34) And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. (35) And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
I think the altar symbolizes Israel.

1Ki 18:36-38 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. (37) Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again. (38) Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
Drenched in water...
and the fire of the LORD...

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Act 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

and a future time?...
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mal 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Any thoughts? Insights?








 

eleos1954

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Has anyone ever studied Elijah's altar? I think there is a deeper meaning to it, and that it pointed to a future time, and to a future time.

1Ki 18:30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down.


Is this connected to?:
Mat 17:10-11 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? (11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

1Ki 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
I think, since this is stated here, it is significant.

1Ki 18:32-35 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. (33) And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. (34) And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. (35) And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
I think the altar symbolizes Israel.

1Ki 18:36-38 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. (37) Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again. (38) Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
Drenched in water...
and the fire of the LORD...

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Act 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

and a future time?...
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mal 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Any thoughts? Insights?

Matthew 11:14

17And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous— to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

which is quoting ...

Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the LORD.

Mark 9:11
And they asked Jesus, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

Matthew 17
He (Jesus) answered, “Elijah does come, and he (Jesus) will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him (John), but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.”

9 And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” 10 And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” 11 He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. 12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

The Jews expected the coming of Elijah to be physical ... believed that he (Elijah from the OT) would appear physically just before the Messiah ... they didn't grasp the term "in the spirit of Elijah".

Both John the Baptist and Jesus came in the spirit of Elijah .... (ie similar in type/spirit)
 
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TreWalker

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Has anyone ever studied Elijah's altar? I think there is a deeper meaning to it, and that it pointed to a future time, and to a future time.

1Ki 18:30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down.


Is this connected to?:
Mat 17:10-11 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? (11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Yes, the spirit of Eliyahu is the spirit of tikkun olam that culminates with the coming of Moshiach. Worth pointing out here is yet another place where Yeshua confirms and agrees with the Jewish sages, instead of simply tearing them down by default.
 
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TreWalker

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1Ki 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
I think, since this is stated here, it is significant.

1Ki 18:32-35 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. (33) And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. (34) And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. (35) And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
I think the altar symbolizes Israel.
And what do you think the water symbolizes?

I would like to plant a couple seeds into your head here. Four barrels poured out three times. In Judaism there are four expressions of redemption, which are related to the four exiles of the Jewish people. And of course the four cups during Pesach.

And the number three has to do with redemption.
The real meaning behind the nature of Moshiach is Gimel ג, equivalent to the number 3. G-d is called Gemilut in Jeremiah 51:56 (recompenses); “for the LORD is a G-d of Gemilut” giving us according to our deeds. And of course there are three matzot during Pesach.

The three matzot that are placed on the Seder plate are referred to as Kohen, Levi, and Yisrael as a means of distinguishing them from each other.

The top matzah is referred to as Kohen, for the Kohen takes precedence in all matters.

The middle matzah Levi is broken into two at the beginning of the Seder. The smaller piece is left on the plate and is later eaten along with the Kohen matzah in fulfillment of the mitzvah of matzah; the larger piece is put away for use as the afikoman.

The bottom matzah, Yisrael is used for korech, so that every one of the matzot is used for the performance of a mitzvah.
 
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chunkofcoal

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Matthew 11:14

17And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous— to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

which is quoting ...

Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the LORD.

Mark 9:11
And they asked Jesus, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

Matthew 17
He (Jesus) answered, “Elijah does come, and he (Jesus) will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him (John), but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.”

9 And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” 10 And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” 11 He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. 12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

The Jews expected the coming of Elijah to be physical ... believed that he (Elijah from the OT) would appear physically just before the Messiah ... they didn't grasp the term "in the spirit of Elijah".

Both John the Baptist and Jesus came in the spirit of Elijah .... (ie similar in type/spirit)

Under Matthew 17 above, why did you put Jesus in parenthesis “Elijah does come, and he (Jesus) will restore all things" when the quote is: "Elijah does come, and he will restore all things"? Don't you believe Elijah is coming again?

Maybe the Jews did expect 'the coming of Elijah to be physical', and they didn't recognize him in the person of John the Baptist, but I am about 100% sure they grasp the term "in the spirit of Elijah".

You said: "Both John the Baptist and Jesus came in the spirit of Elijah .... (ie similar in type/spirit)"

You don't think Jesus came as Moshiach? Or do you think the spirit of Elijah and the spirit of Moshiach are the same?
 
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chunkofcoal

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And what do you think the water symbolizes?

I would like to plant a couple seeds into your head here. Four barrels poured out three times. In Judaism there are four expressions of redemption, which are related to the four exiles of the Jewish people. And of course the four cups during Pesach.

And the number three has to do with redemption.
The real meaning behind the nature of Moshiach is Gimel ג, equivalent to the number 3. G-d is called Gemilut in Jeremiah 51:56 (recompenses); “for the LORD is a G-d of Gemilut” giving us according to our deeds. And of course there are three matzot during Pesach.
The water? The pouring out of the Spirit?

I was wondering what the 4 meant!
 
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eleos1954

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Under Matthew 17 above, why did you put Jesus in parenthesis “Elijah does come, and he (Jesus) will restore all things" when the quote is: "Elijah does come, and he will restore all things"? Don't you believe Elijah is coming again?

Maybe the Jews did expect 'the coming of Elijah to be physical', and they didn't recognize him in the person of John the Baptist, but I am about 100% sure they grasp the term "in the spirit of Elijah".

You said: "Both John the Baptist and Jesus came in the spirit of Elijah .... (ie similar in type/spirit)"

You don't think Jesus came as Moshiach? Or do you think the spirit of Elijah and the spirit of Moshiach are the same?

Malachi tells us that Elijah will come before Jesus does (Malachi 4:5, 6). Now read about the coming of Elijah in Matthew 11:14, 15; Matthew 17:10; Mark 6:15; and Luke 1:17.

What do these verses teach us about Elijah? In the days of Malachi, God tells His people to come back to Him. “ ‘Come back to me, and I will come back to you’ ” (Malachi 3:7, ERV). How do God’s people answer? “ ‘ “How can we come back?” ’ ” (Malachi 3:7, ERV). Malachi is God’s special messenger.

He tells the people that God will give them one more chance to come back to Him. They will have one more chance to change their hearts. Malachi asks them to remember the time of Elijah (1 Kings 18:37). Malachi says that Elijah will come again.

Then Elijah will “ ‘help the parents become close to their children, and he will help the children become close to their parents’ ” (Malachi 4:6, ERV). As time passes, the Jews start to believe that Elijah himself will come to tell the Jews that the Savior is coming (read Matthew 17:10; Mark 6:15).

But Elijah is a symbol or word picture for John the Baptist (read Matthew 11:14, 15; Luke 1:17). John the Baptist comes (in the spirit of Elijah) before Jesus does. John does the work of Elijah. John tells everyone to get ready for the Savior to come.

Don't you believe Elijah is coming again?

If he (OT Elijah) does he will be among the angels with Jesus at His second coming, when the 1st resurrection happens.

Some believe Elijah was taken to heaven ... some believe because on the mount of transfiguration was in vision .. not ... (and Moses also) ... if that is believed then they will be in the 1st resurrection when Jesus returns.

In 1 Kings 18, Elijah defended the worship of the Hebrew God over that of the Canaanite deity Baal. God also performed many miracles through Elijah, including resurrection (raising the dead), bringing fire down from the sky, and entering Heaven alive "by fire".
 
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TreWalker

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1Ki 18:36-38 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. (37) Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.

(38)
Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
Drenched in water...
and the fire of the LORD...


Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:


Act 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


and a future time?...
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mal 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


Any thoughts? Insights?
Notice Elijah knew exactly when to make the offering. The minchah tamid.

Very good drasha. Let's dig into the remez some more.

The altar symbolizes the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob/Yisrael.
The water symbolizes the spirit of Elijah.
The fire symbolizes the spirit of Moshiach.

We are left with a few things to identify;
The trench and the seed poured into it.
The wood and the bull.
The fire.

Rashi has this to say about the trench and seed:
a trench: fosse in French. (pit/grave)
as great as would contain two se’ah: Its width was as great as to hold two se’ah, one hundred cubits by fifty cubits like the court of the mishkan.

Water also symbolizes the Spirit of G-d as well as the Moshiach, as well as the Torah. (water food for my brain let it rain till I drown..)

The tzadik called all the people to the mountain to help repair Yisrael. The tzadik restored Yisrael on the mountain and completely surrounded them by a pit filled with seed. The Tzadik poured the Spirit of G-d out over Yisrael three times even filling the pit with four massive redemptions.

At the set time the tzadik prays to HaShem, and fire falls from heaven and consumes Yisrael and the surrounding ground. When the people saw this they fell to their feet and cry in affirmation that HaShem is G-d.

Yisrael bound, surrounded by a pit, the peoples all assimilated and committing avodah zarah, a tzadik who calls the people to help restore the altar, pouring water over it three times then at the right time with prayer fire consumes everything in the sight of all the people.

Sounds like the history of Yisrael to me. Up to this day.

Elijah symbolizes Moshiach (duh), who came to call the lost sheep of Yisrael to restore their altar(s). They were all worshiping false gods. Moshiach gathered them to the mountain (olives) and called them to help restore the altar of HaShem. "decide this day who you will serve...". Moshiach poured the Spirit of G-d upon them and they were consumed with fire, Ruach HaKodesh. It consumed all their flesh/sin even effecting those around them. (Shavuot) Acts 2.
 
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chunkofcoal

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Notice Elijah knew exactly when to make the offering. The minchah tamid.

Very good drasha. Let's dig into the remez some more.

The altar symbolizes the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob/Yisrael.
The water symbolizes the spirit of Elijah.
The fire symbolizes the spirit of Moshiach.

We are left with a few things to identify;
The trench and the seed poured into it.
The wood and the bull.
The fire.

Rashi has this to say about the trench and seed:
a trench: fosse in French. (pit/grave)
as great as would contain two se’ah: Its width was as great as to hold two se’ah, one hundred cubits by fifty cubits like the court of the mishkan.

Water also symbolizes the Spirit of G-d as well as the Moshiach, as well as the Torah. (water food for my brain let it rain till I drown..)

The tzadik called all the people to the mountain to help repair Yisrael. The tzadik restored Yisrael on the mountain and completely surrounded them by a pit filled with seed. The Tzadik poured the Spirit of G-d out over Yisrael three times even filling the pit with four massive redemptions.

At the set time the tzadik prays to HaShem, and fire falls from heaven and consumes Yisrael and the surrounding ground. When the people saw this they fell to their feet and cry in affirmation that HaShem is G-d.

Yisrael bound, surrounded by a pit, the peoples all assimilated and committing avodah zarah, a tzadik who calls the people to help restore the altar, pouring water over it three times then at the right time with prayer fire consumes everything in the sight of all the people.

Sounds like the history of Yisrael to me. Up to this day.

Elijah symbolizes Moshiach (duh), who came to call the lost sheep of Yisrael to restore their altar(s). They were all worshiping false gods. Moshiach gathered them to the mountain (olives) and called them to help restore the altar of HaShem. "decide this day who you will serve...". Moshiach poured the Spirit of G-d upon them and they were consumed with fire, Ruach HaKodesh. It consumed all their flesh/sin even effecting those around them. (Shavuot) Acts 2.


The trench and the seed... that is an interesting connection between the trench and the court of the mishkan.
But, it mentions that it was large enough to hold the seed, but there is no mention that Elijah put seed in the trench. Room for the seed?

What if the altar (also?) symbolizes the remnant?
1Ki 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

Rom 11:4-5 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. (5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

This scripture mentions specifically "unto whom the word of the LORD came" -
1Ki 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

Yeshua said:
Joh 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
I noticed that though He was talking to some of the Jews, He said, "If He called THEM gods, unto whom the word of God came..." He seems to be showing a difference between the Jews, and those to whom the word of God came.

And Paul wrote:

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel

So I'm thinking the remnant are also those "unto whom the word of the LORD came".

The wood and the bull?
Well, Yeshua died on a wooden cross/pole.
There is also the story of Isaac...
??
 
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Has anyone ever studied Elijah's altar? I think there is a deeper meaning to it, and that it pointed to a future time, and to a future time.

1Ki 18:30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down.


Is this connected to?:
Mat 17:10-11 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? (11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

1Ki 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
I think, since this is stated here, it is significant.

1Ki 18:32-35 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. (33) And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. (34) And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. (35) And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
I think the altar symbolizes Israel.

1Ki 18:36-38 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. (37) Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again. (38) Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
Drenched in water...
and the fire of the LORD...

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Act 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

and a future time?...
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mal 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Any thoughts? Insights?
In the spirit of what you wrote, I see "spiritual sacrifices" upon this altar, spiritual sacrifices we are all to make.

1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.









[/QUOTE]
 
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chunkofcoal

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In the spirit of what you wrote, I see "spiritual sacrifices" upon this altar, spiritual sacrifices we are all to make.

1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.




[/QUOTE]
Good point!
 
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