Paul's thorn in the flesh - have we all got one?

I like to think the thorn was his own people. 2Cor 11:22-33

Victor in Christ said:

We don't know what Paul's thorn was, maybe we've all got a thorn in the flesh that will bother us personally in this life, but we shouldn't let it burden us down and burden others. If we look through the bible we can read about people who had thorns in the flesh. Noah got drunk, Abraham had doubts/fears which lead him to lie twice. Moses killed a man, Jacob stole his brothers birthright, Rahab lied, Solomon sought earthly pleasures and wisdom, David was adulterous......



Any thoughts?

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Indeed something relative to thought like your examples dictate, which can be seen in Adam, the day that he ate.

If I had to guess what Paul's thorn in the flesh was, my guess would be that he was tempted to return to his past ways. He preached against trusting in works, but it is evident that before his Damascus Road experience, we was trusting in the works of the Law. It was only after his conversion that he learned that the right way was to trust in his faith in Jesus.

Is it not likely that returning to that way of thinking (Keeping the Law) was a lifelong struggle for Paul?

Victor in Christ said:

1 John 8-10, says we'll always have some sin in this life. Paul asked Christ 3 times to take it away after he was given an abundance of revelations. 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. Christ replied 'My grace is sufficient for thee'.

Maybe Paul possessed some form of holy pride, thinking he was 'exalted' in receiving these revelations in v 7, that the Lord who holds the keys to hell and of death in Revelation 1:18 (1 Samuel 2:6) (Matthew 16:16), allowed Satan to afflict him, to such an extent Paul would call himself the least of the Apostles?.

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In Scripture 3 is the number of a growing perception ...

Victor in Christ said:

We don't know what Paul's thorn was, maybe we've all got a thorn in the flesh that will bother us personally in this life, but we shouldn't let it burden us down and burden others. If we look through the bible we can read about people who had thorns in the flesh. Noah got drunk, Abraham had doubts/fears which lead him to lie twice. Moses killed a man, Jacob stole his brothers birthright, Rahab lied, Solomon sought earthly pleasures and wisdom, David was adulterous......



Any thoughts?

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I agree. I call them handicaps. I think they can serve to help us start a relationship with God, maintain a relationship with/dependency on God, or increase our relationship/dependency on God. "Trials" could be another way of looking at them biblically. This is just me and my thoughts.

What clued me in was seeing how certain disadvantages affect people's spiritual walk over the years. Namely, my eldest child became one prayerful little girl when she was caught up in a maniac behavior for a year. We all became more prayerful. Praise the Lord we worked through it and all is fine going on 7 years now! So her thorn was temporary but helped her faith.

I personally cannot speak well in groups of 3 or more adults. It has affected my prayer life forcing me to cling to the Lord in situations others take for granted. Mine might be chronic.

I know other stories but I don't want to bore. My heart hurts for those who do not accept their handicaps/trials/thorns and choose to move away from the Lord. I know a lot of those stories too.

Victor in Christ said:

Great to hear about your eldest child and the rest of your family getting through that, the Lord and Heaven will be rejoicing.

I can exactly relate to the issue you raised about groups and prayer. I've never prayed out aloud or sung out aloud in front of others, its always inwards or litlle songs of praise when i'm alone with the Lord. Maybe some day i will grow in confidence to praise and pray aloud to the Lord. I don't fret over it, but something within me knows the Lord will be thankful and he'll reward me and others around me with more joy in the Spirit. Its like i'm holding back on it.

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You bet the Lord loves all the internal communication you have with Him. No question. Perhaps its a confidence thing or maybe you were never meant to communicate like others. If we were all talkers, who would listen? I'm so glad you don't fret over it. That makes it worse. I figure we'll get where we need to by and by no need to stress it.

My case might not be extreme. I can function and get by but not smoothly. I have to keep it brief. But people seem to expect me to be more verbally inclined. I don't like letting people down. But I'm too distracted what isn't being said I think -maybe. It does feel like I'm holding back when I talk though. I can relate to that. Thank you for sharing.

Being that I am not a fan or follower of Paul, I have taken the mentality that scientific insight points to some rather serious neuro-psych problems that guided Paul's actions. Not a popular belief, but evidence shows that I may well be correct.

RickardoHolmes said:

Being that I am not a fan or follower of Paul, I have taken the mentality that scientific insight points to some rather serious neuro-psych problems that guided Paul's actions. Not a popular belief, but evidence shows that I may well be correct.

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If the Body of Christ accepts Paul's writings as Scripture and you call yourself a Christian, I don't understand your comment. And what do you mean by "correct"? Going against the teachings of the Bible?

"From Paul, an apostle (not from men, nor by human agency, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him from the dead)" Galatians 1:1

"But when the one who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I could preach him among the Gentiles, I did not go to ask advice from any human being" Galatians 1:15-16



" (for he [God] who empowered Peter for his apostleship to the circumcised also empowered me for my apostleship to the Gentiles) Galatians 2:8

Victor in Christ said:

If it is a mental issue, then all Holy people in the bible had these mental issues. I'd prefer to say these holy people had a deep connection with God.

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They certainly thought Jesus was beside himself ...

Victor in Christ said:

If it is a mental issue, then all Holy people in the bible had these mental issues. I'd prefer to say these holy people had a deep connection with God.

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It would be within the realm of possibility that Paul's "visions" could have been hallucinations from a seizure disorder.
It would also seem that Paul's egotism, his highs and lows, would suggest possibly a bipolar disorder, and perhaps a personality disorder as well. None of which was understood or classified at the time. Roman medicine was the best in the world, for the time, but the knowledge they had is a drop in an pool of what is known today. The personality of a person who would have these traits certainly fits the profile of what medicine teaches today.

Remember the Oracle of Delphi? Ancient Greeks used it as a means to talk to the gods. We know now that the inhalation of ether was the source of the visions, not divine appearance. But in that time, people did not understand or know what these hallucinogenic gasses were, how they worked, and why they appeared. Only that it caused someone to be able to communicate with the gods.

RickardoHolmes said:

It would be within the realm of possibility that Paul's "visions" could have been hallucinations from a seizure disorder.
It would also seem that Paul's egotism, his highs and lows, would suggest possibly a bipolar disorder, and perhaps a personality disorder as well. None of which was understood or classified at the time. Roman medicine was the best in the world, for the time, but the knowledge they had is a drop in an pool of what is known today. The personality of a person who would have these traits certainly fits the profile of what medicine teaches today.

Remember the Oracle of Delphi? Ancient Greeks used it as a means to talk to the gods. We know now that the inhalation of ether was the source of the visions, not divine appearance. But in that time, people did not understand or know what these hallucinogenic gasses were, how they worked, and why they appeared. Only that it caused someone to be able to communicate with the gods.

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Based on your assumption of Paul Jesus must have been out to lunch ...

I like to think we all have our own "thorns". Whether that'd be our sins, our thoughts, etc. It differs for everyone, but we all bleed the same and therefore have our own thorns.

JesseRBassett said:

I like to think we all have our own "thorns". Whether that'd be our sins, our thoughts, etc. It differs for everyone, but we all bleed the same and therefore have our own thorns.

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3 things it could have been, in his flesh, in his mind, or trouble from outside (he held a pretty influential position among the pharisees before he was converted, that had to make him some enemies).