The 7th trumpet signals more than a woe event

Douggg · Jul 16, 2020

Trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 are not continuous in the text of chapter 9.

The first six trumpets are grouped 1,2,3,4,5,6 in chapter 9. Then a new vision is started in chapter 10. Which in chapter 10, John swallows the little book, beginning a new set of visions. Which in chapter 11, the 7th trumpet sounds.

The 7th trumpet signals more than a woe event and because of that, on a timeline, is before the 5th trumpet woe only event and 6th trumpet woe only event.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The 7th trumpet signals the finality of God's mysterious plan He signified through the prophets about bringing the Kingdom of Heaven here to earth taking effect - and removing Satan and his angels sway oven the nations of the earth. The first step of which is to begin dismantling Satan and his angels kingdom - figuratively called Babylon the great.

In Revelation 18, Babylon is fallen is fallen, is all about the demise of Satan's kingdom, coming so rapidly, allegorized as a great trading city being destroyed in one hour.

When Satan is cast down for the time, times, half time - that's when trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6 take place. ...in sequence, just as you indicate.

ewq1938 · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
The 7th trumpet signals more than a woe event and because of that, on a timeline, is before the 5th trumpet woe only event and 6th trumpet woe only event.

The 7th trump is the last of the trumps and cannot sound before the 5th does. Also, the 7th trump is the 3rd woe trump so the first woe and second woe trumps do sound before the 7th does. You are just very wrong on this.

Douggg · Jul 16, 2020

ewq1938 said:
The 7th trump is the last of the trumps and cannot sound before the 5th does. Also, the 7th trump is the 3rd woe trump so the first woe and second woe trumps do sound before the 7th does. You are just very wrong on this.

Numerically speaking, yes. But functionally speaking, no, because the 7th trumpet signifies more than a woe only, and more than a single judgement only like the other trumpets.

In the days of the 7th angel begins to sound - it is the beginning of the end for Satan and his angels, sway over the nations of the earth.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Satan's end is in Ezekiel 28:16-19.

ewq1938 · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
Numerically speaking, yes. But functionally speaking, no, because the 7th trumpet signifies more than a woe only, and more than a single judgement only like the other trumpets.

Your reasoning is not very reasonable. Nothing can move the 7th trump/3rd woe out of it's chronological place. It is the last of the 7 trumpets. All 6 trumps sound before the angel with the last and 7th trump sounds it, being the last of the 3 woe trumps.

Douggg · Jul 16, 2020

ewq1938 said:
Your reasoning is not very reasonable. Nothing can move the 7th trump/3rd woe out of it's chronological place. It is the last of the 7 trumpets. All 6 trumps sound before the angel with the last and 7th trump sounds it, being the last of the 3 woe trumps.

You are misapplying textual place as equating to chronological place.

The 7th trumpet is not grouped with the other trumpets in Revelation 9. Because of special considerations.

ewq1938 · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
You are misapplying textual place as equating to chronological place.

The 7th trumpet is not grouped with the other trumpets in Revelation 9. Because of special considerations.

That doesn't change that 6 other trumpets sound before the 7th does. The text identifies the first trump to sound and all the others in proper chronology. You are simply incorrect in your exegesis.

Douggg · Jul 16, 2020

ewq1938 said:
That doesn't change that 6 other trumpets sound before the 7th does.

In the text, but not on a timeline.

The text identifies the first trump to sound and all the others in proper chronology. You are simply incorrect in your exegesis.

trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6 are all in chapter 9 in sequence with each other.

You are not considering that the 7th trumpet sounds after John ate the little book.

ewq1938 · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
In the text, but not on a timeline.

I disagree and I think the text shows the timeline in contrast to your interpretation. Will look forward to the replies that follow.

trumpets 1, 2,3,4,5,6 are all in chapter 9 in sequence with each other.

That is further evidence that you are incorrect.

Douggg · Jul 16, 2020

ewq1938 said:
I disagree and I think the text shows the timeline in contrast to your interpretation. Will look forward to the replies that follow.

To my knowledge, you don't have a timeline chart of events? I do.
There is a lot more to it than just the 6 trumpets. The 7th trumpet, spells the end to Satan and his angels sway over the nations of the earth.

iamlamad · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
Trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 are not continuous in the text of chapter 9.

The first six trumpets are grouped 1,2,3,4,5,6 in chapter 9. Then a new vision is started in chapter 10. Which in chapter 10, John swallows the little book, beginning a new set of visions. Which in chapter 11, the 7th trumpet sounds.

The 7th trumpet signals more than a woe event and because of that, on a timeline, is before the 5th trumpet woe only event and 6th trumpet woe only event.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The 7th trumpet signals the finality of God's mysterious plan He signified through the prophets about bringing the Kingdom of Heaven here to earth taking effect - and removing Satan and his angels sway oven the nations of the earth. The first step of which is to begin dismantling Satan and his angels kingdom - figuratively called Babylon the great.

In Revelation 18, Babylon is fallen is fallen, is all about the demise of Satan's kingdom, coming so rapidly, allegorized as a great trading city being destroyed in one hour.

When Satan is cast down for the time, times, half time - that's when trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6 take place. ...in sequence, just as you indicate.

The 7th trumpet signals more than a woe event and because of that, on a timeline, is before the 5th trumpet woe only event and 6th trumpet woe only event. You have got to be kidding: trying to rearrange John's numbered events - numbered for sequencing - is an effort in futility: this theory will be proven wrong.

ANY theory that tries to rearrange John's God given chronology to fit said theory, will be proven wrong.

iamlamad · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
You are misapplying textual place as equating to chronological place.

The 7th trumpet is not grouped with the other trumpets in Revelation 9. Because of special considerations.

I will agree that the 7th trumpet does not come right after the 6th in the text, and for a special reason: the 7th trumpet is a "marker" (just as the 7th seal and the 7th vial are markers) and is delayed until the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God. the 7th trumpet marks that moment in time for those in heaven.

Then there are events that must take place after the 6th trumpet but before the 7th can sound. Two of those events are first, the man of sin must move to Jerusalem with him Gentile army that will trample the city for the next 42 months. How could he enter the temple in Jerusalem unless he first arrive in Jerusalem? (11:1-2)

Next, the two witnesses must arrive and begin before the 7th angel sounds. They are to witness the abomination.

iamlamad · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
You are misapplying textual place as equating to chronological place.

The 7th trumpet is not grouped with the other trumpets in Revelation 9. Because of special considerations.

You are trying to rearrange to fit a theory! Your theory will be proven wrong.

Douggg · Jul 16, 2020

iamlamad said:
I will agree that the 7th trumpet does not come right after the 6th in the text, and for a special reason: the 7th trumpet is a "marker"

What's the 7th trumpet marking? Go to the prophets and prove what the mystery is.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

iamlamad · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
What's the 7th trumpet marking? Go to the prophets and prove what the mystery is.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

All we have to do is read ahead and see what will happen when the 7th trumpet is sounded - it is simple: ever since Adam sinned, Satan has been the god of this world. But at the 7th trumpet, Adam's lease expires, suddenly Satan has no more legal hold to the world, and it is given back to its rightful owner, Jesus Christ. It is like what happens at a property "closing." Property changes legal ownership.

Also the 7th trumpet will be the signal for Michael to clear the heavenly realms of satan and all his demons.

finally, the 7th trumpet will mark the moment in time that the abomination that will divide the week will take place.

Timtofly · Jul 16, 2020

Douggg said:
What's the 7th trumpet marking? Go to the prophets and prove what the mystery is.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The woe of the 7th Trumpet is Revelation 14. It is the harvest of the two sickles.

The 7th Trumpet is more than the woe. It is the celebration of the 8 days, Sunday to Sunday of the Second Coming week. The first 8 day week, was the end of Jesus' 3.5 earthly ministry, and was the week of Atonement. That week was the end of the Law, and the start of the church.

Thus the 7th Trumpet is the end of God’s Judgments, of the seals, trumpets, and Thunders. The Thunders happen before the 7th Trumpet. Just because John ate the book, does not mean the thunders will not happen. The 7th Trumpet ends the 6000 years of Adam's punishment. It is the week of final harvest, to prepare for the Monday of the last Millennium. It is also the end of the Lamb's earthly final ministry with the 144K Jewish male virgins. His end time disciples who gather the harvest as mentioned in Revelation 14.

Satan does not deserve Revelation 13. Satan gets Revelation 13, because the church failed. The church let billions of humans be subjected to 3.5 years of Satan in full control. This splits the Second Coming week into 2 parts. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday start back up at the end of Satan's 3.5 years. Those 3 days is when the 2 witnesses lay dead in the street in Jerusalem. Those 3 days is when the 7 vials are poured out. Then on Sunday is the battle of Armageddon. The third woe is either the 2 sickles in Revelation 14, or it is Satan in control for 3.5 years, the 7 vials, and the battle of Armageddon. The sounding of the 7th Trumpet is for 8 days. It is the last judgment that includes either the final 2 sickle harvest, or the 7 vials and the battle of Armageddon, which is the final harvest. All living humanity will be dead at the end of the 7th Trumpet. The 3 woes completed.

tranquil · Jul 16, 2020

Revelation is purposefully written in such a way that these types of disagreements will & must occur.

How many of these types of disagreements about Revelation are there? Many, because it is prophecy and prophecy can't explain itself directly - because it would just be replicated by Satan to deceive people.

Jesus said that the end times could deceive even the elect if that were possible. Prophecy is part of that deception.

How you interpret prophecy is political, meaning, at this stage in the game, it would implicate particular people as evil. And there are plenty of professing Christians who will, and already do, worship evil and evil people.

When you interpret the 7th Trumpet immediately following the 6th Trumpet war (as opposed to the sequence of: 6th Trumpet war, then the start of the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses on 24 Kislev, then the 7th Trumpet & kingdom of heaven after 1260 + 3.5 days), you get Revelation 15, 16's 7 bowls of wrath immediately segueing into the destruction of Mystery Babylon.

That destruction is the 'burning the harlot' of Revelation 17. Without a doubt, this will be Rome. Then she/ the woman goes into the wilderness for 1260 days. Jerusalem then becomes the 'holy place' with the 'most holy' there. See the trick?

By making the 7th Trumpet come 'earlier' in the timeline, the 'holy place' turns into Jerusalem.

This is a difficult concept to convey, here is how it appears to me to play out, just taking a literal approach to deceiving people.
(when I say 'good guys' below, I mean they are bad guys deceiving people - and 'bad guys' are still bad guys) (also, 'Godzilla' is the Bible's Leviathan, which Satan will manifest as a 'dragon' for him to pretend to defeat) (Pence & Netanyahu seem to be the logical candidates for 2 false witnesses for the 1260 days timeframe that would have started at Jerusalem Day May 14, 2018) (I don't really think that the 4 horseman strictly start July 25, it is just a theory).

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iamlamad · Jul 16, 2020

Timtofly said:
The woe of the 7th Trumpet is Revelation 14. It is the harvest of the two sickles.

The 7th Trumpet is more than the woe. It is the celebration of the 8 days, Sunday to Sunday of the Second Coming week. The first 8 day week, was the end of Jesus' 3.5 earthly ministry, and was the week of Atonement. That week was the end of the Law, and the start of the church.

Thus the 7th Trumpet is the end of God’s Judgments, of the seals, trumpets, and Thunders. The Thunders happen before the 7th Trumpet. Just because John ate the book, does not mean the thunders will not happen. The 7th Trumpet ends the 6000 years of Adam's punishment. It is the week of final harvest, to prepare for the Monday of the last Millennium. It is also the end of the Lamb's earthly final ministry with the 144K Jewish male virgins. His end time disciples who gather the harvest as mentioned in Revelation 14.

Satan does not deserve Revelation 13. Satan gets Revelation 13, because the church failed. The church let billions of humans be subjected to 3.5 years of Satan in full control. This splits the Second Coming week into 2 parts. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday start back up at the end of Satan's 3.5 years. Those 3 days is when the 2 witnesses lay dead in the street in Jerusalem. Those 3 days is when the 7 vials are poured out. Then on Sunday is the battle of Armageddon. The third woe is either the 2 sickles in Revelation 14, or it is Satan in control for 3.5 years, the 7 vials, and the battle of Armageddon. The sounding of the 7th Trumpet is for 8 days. It is the last judgment that includes either the final 2 sickle harvest, or the 7 vials and the battle of Armageddon, which is the final harvest. All living humanity will be dead at the end of the 7th Trumpet. The 3 woes completed.

The woe of the 7th Trumpet is Revelation 14. It is the harvest of the two sickles. That is myth. Let me show you how easy this is: I will search Revelation for "woe."

Revelation 8:13
And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! [three woes]

Revelation 9:12
One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. [one woe finished, two more to go]

Revelation 11:14
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.[two woes finished, one more to go]

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. [this is the 3rd woe, AT the 7th trumpet, but because Satan is cast down.]

See how easy? It is the the 7th trumpet, but it is what happens at the 7th trumpet; Satan is cast down, and WOE to those alive on the earth.

It is the celebration of the 8 days, Sunday to Sunday of the Second Coming week. Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is MYTH.

His end time disciples who gather the harvest as mentioned in Revelation 14.
Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is MYTH.

The church let billions of humans be subjected to 3.5 years of Satan in full control. The church has not failed: multiplied millions have been born again during the church age - and today the gospel is everywhere.

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday start back up at the end of Satan's 3.5 years.
Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is MYTH.

The third woe is either the 2 sickles in Revelation 14, or it is Satan in control for 3.5 years, the 7 vials, and the battle of Armageddon. You almost bumbled into the right answer.
The sounding of the 7th Trumpet is for 8 days. Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is MYTH.
All living humanity will be dead at the end of the 7th Trumpet. Complete MYTH. Impossible to prove because it is myth. You have ROBBED God of any way of repopulating man on earth during the millennium.

BABerean2 · Jul 16, 2020

iamlamad said:
All living humanity will be dead at the end of the 7th Trumpet. Complete MYTH. Impossible to prove because it is myth. You have ROBBED God of any way of repopulating man on earth during the millennium.

Then please show us the mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

.

iamlamad · Jul 16, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Then please show us the mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
.

Why limit yourself? We have the whole bible. God has to have sheep and goats. You would rob him of both.

Timtofly · Jul 16, 2020

iamlamad said:
The woe of the 7th Trumpet is Revelation 14. It is the harvest of the two sickles. That is myth. Let me show you how easy this is: I will search Revelation for "woe."

Revelation 8:13
And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! [three woes]

Revelation 9:12
One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. [one woe finished, two more to go]

Revelation 11:14
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.[two woes finished, one more to go]

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. [this is the 3rd woe, AT the 7th trumpet, but because Satan is cast down.]

See how easy? It is the the 7th trumpet, but it is what happens at the 7th trumpet; Satan is cast down, and WOE to those alive on the earth.

It is the celebration of the 8 days, Sunday to Sunday of the Second Coming week. Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is MYTH.

His end time disciples who gather the harvest as mentioned in Revelation 14.
Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is MYTH.

The church let billions of humans be subjected to 3.5 years of Satan in full control. The church has not failed: multiplied millions have been born again during the church age - and today the gospel is everywhere.

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday start back up at the end of Satan's 3.5 years.
Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is MYTH.

The third woe is either the 2 sickles in Revelation 14, or it is Satan in control for 3.5 years, the 7 vials, and the battle of Armageddon. You almost bumbled into the right answer.
The sounding of the 7th Trumpet is for 8 days. Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is MYTH.
All living humanity will be dead at the end of the 7th Trumpet. Complete MYTH. Impossible to prove because it is myth. You have ROBBED God of any way of repopulating man on earth during the millennium.

I presented Scripture. I am not sure why you think I have stepped out of bounds.

The earth is repopulated by those resurrected on the Monday, the day after Revelation 14, or the battle of Armageddon. It is in clear text in Revelation 20. If you change the chronology of Revelation, I will not trust anything you attempt to say. Monday comes after Sunday. That will not change in the next 5+ years, will it? Do you deny that at the first advent, Jesus entered Jerusalem on a Sunday and appeared to Mary on the following Sunday? That is the same template for the Second Coming week, Sunday to Sunday. It is the template of God’s current created reality. Two Lord's Days, with 6 days in between for Adam's descendants.

The 7th trumpet signals more than a woe event

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