If i keep sinning am i not saved ?

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I do Desire to live for God and to not sin more and more I want to turn away from it completely and I pray for strength and help and for His will to be done. What would be considered good works ?

Here are some examples of some good works:

#1. Spreading the good news of Jesus Christ.
I use Chick tracts (check out this link here), and will hand them out in fast food drive throughs, etc., and pray sometimes to have an opportunity to share Christ with a person at work, and God then answers and brings me that person to tell them of the truth about Jesus.

#2. Helping the poor in some way. One can sponsor a child through Compassion International (check out this link here), or you can give food at your local shelter, and or drive around your area where you know the poor hangs out and give them some money, tracts, water, and food.

#3. Love the brethren. Preach the Word to your fellow brothers and sisters in what God has shown you in your study of His Word. If you see a brother in need, help them. You can also give them gifts so as to help in their walk with the Lord. Pray in secret for them.

#4. Love your enemies. This is not easy to do, but it is really worth it. Anytime a person tries to do wrong towards you, we have to love in return. We have to pray for them and do good towards them instead of fighting fire with fire.

#5. Pray, fast, and give in secret, and your Father will reward you openly. Obey when nobody is looking. Seek to please God in all you do, and worship Him.

#6. Cultivate the fruits of the Spirit like love, joy, peace, etc. in Galatians 5:22-23. Ask God to bring forth these fruits in your life or to increase them.

#7. Study Scripture and or Memorize it (with the goal in mind so as to draw closer to God, and worship Him, and so as to help others).

#8. Either partake in a mission trip, or work on an your own evangelism project (like a video, booklet, tract), etc.
 
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@God is good777

I noticed that your avatar (picture in each of your posts) shows that you like to fish. If this is still the case, you may enjoy picking up a waterproof Bible at some point down the road.

full



Bardin Marsee Publishing - Waterproof Bibles

Although, I would first recommend in picking up a Defined King James Bible, though.

full


You can get a cheap vinyl one here:

The Defined King James Bible - Medium Print (Black, Vinyl, Black Letter)

Or you can get the leather, thumb indexed more expensive version here:

Defined King James Large Print Text Bible: BFT LBURX, KJV (#40302) - BTP

The Defined King James gives you a definition using older dictionaries on some of the older outdated words from the 1600's.

Note: You can click on the image below to zoom in.
full


I say this because I believe the King James Bible is the pure Word of God for today and it is far more trustworthy than Modern Translations. If you are interested, here are 30 reasons why I believe the King James Bible is the Pure Word of God for today.

30 Reasons why the KJV is the Divine and Pure Word of God for Today (Update: KJVO Posters Only)

I hope this helps;
And may God bless you.
 
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@God is good777

I noticed that your avatar (picture in each of your posts) shows that you like to fish. If this is still the case, you may enjoy picking up a waterproof Bible at some point down the road.

full



Bardin Marsee Publishing - Waterproof Bibles

Although, I would first recommend in picking up a Defined King James Bible, though.

full


You can get a cheap vinyl one here:

The Defined King James Bible - Medium Print (Black, Vinyl, Black Letter)

Or you can get the leather, thumb indexed more expensive version here:

Defined King James Large Print Text Bible: BFT LBURX, KJV (#40302) - BTP

The Defined King James gives you a definition using older dictionaries on some of the older outdated words from the 1600's.

Note: You can click on the image below to zoom in.
full


I say this because I believe the King James Bible is the pure Word of God for today and it is far more trustworthy than Modern Translations. If you are interested, here are 30 reasons why I believe the King James Bible is the Pure Word of God for today.

30 Reasons why the KJV is the Divine and Pure Word of God for Today (Update: KJVO Posters Only)

I hope this helps;
And may God bless you.
I agree as well i only use the king James or New king James version.
 
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God is good777

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Here are some examples of some good works:

#1. Spreading the good news of Jesus Christ.
I use Chick tracts (check out this link here), and will hand them out in fast food drive throughs, etc., and pray sometimes to have an opportunity to share Christ with a person at work, and God then answers and brings me that person to tell them of the truth about Jesus.

#2. Helping the poor in some way. One can sponsor a child through Compassion International (check out this link here), or you can give food at your local shelter, and or drive around your area where you know the poor hangs out and give them some money, tracts, water, and food.

#3. Love the brethren. Preach the Word to your fellow brothers and sisters in what God has shown you in your study of His Word. If you see a brother in need, help them. You can also give them gifts so as to help in their walk with the Lord. Pray in secret for them.

#4. Love your enemies. This is not easy to do, but it is really worth it. Anytime a person tries to do wrong towards you, we have to love in return. We have to pray for them and do good towards them instead of fighting fire with fire.

#5. Pray, fast, and give in secret, and your Father will reward you openly. Obey when nobody is looking. Seek to please God in all you do, and worship Him.

#6. Cultivate the fruits of the Spirit like love, joy, peace, etc. in Galatians 5:22-23. Ask God to bring forth these fruits in your life or to increase them.

#7. Study Scripture and or Memorize it (with the goal in mind so as to draw closer to God, and worship Him, and so as to help others).

#8. Either partake in a mission trip, or work on an your own evangelism project (like a video, booklet, tract), etc.
Thank you i have some of those and am working on other ones like preaching the word im still a new Christian so I would like to read his word and become more knowledgeable in it as well before going and talking to people about it. Im a shy person so that doesn't help. But thank you i also consider all those good works and am working towards more of them. God bless you and have a wonderful day.
 
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I agree as well i only use the king James or New king James version.

The NKJV has some sneaky subtle bad changes. Although it is not perfect, the KJVER Translation is probably the best updated version of the KJV (in my opinion).

You can check out my review of the KJVER translation here:

Comparison Between: The KJV vs. the KJVER (The King James Version Easy Read)

KJVER is more accurate than the New King James (NKJV).

The Defined King James Bible is great for doing personal word studies and taking notes. I love the Defined King James Bible because it leads me to want to double check the definitions on certain older words in the KJV for myself. You can pick up a cheap one for 16 bucks (via by using Amazon Pay) via the first link for the Defined King James Bible in my previous post to you.

I use Modern Translations sometimes, but I always compare them with the KJV. For the KJV is my final word of authority. If a Modern Translation says something different than my KJV, I side with my King James Bible.
 
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The NKJV has some sneaky subtle bad changes. Although it is not perfect, the KJVER Translation is probably the best updated version of the KJV (in my opinion).

You can check out my review of the KJVER translation here:

Comparison Between: The KJV vs. the KJVER (The King James Version Easy Read)

KJVER is more accurate than the New King James (NKJV).

The Defined King James Bible is great for doing personal word studies and taking notes. I love the Defined King James Bible because it leads me to want to double check the definitions on certain older words in the KJV for myself. You can pick up a cheap one for 16 bucks (via by using Amazon Pay) via the first link for the Defined King James Bible in my previous post to you.

I use Modern Translations sometimes, but I always compare them with the KJV. For the KJV is my final word of authority. If a Modern Translation says something different than my KJV, I side with my King James Bible.
Yeah i did know the nkjv can have some sneaky changes like that as well ill definitely look into getting the definited king james bible soon. I'll also look into KJVER and getting one as well.
 
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Yeah i did know the nkjv can have some sneaky changes like that as well ill definitely look into getting the definited king james bible soon. I'll also look into KJVER and getting one as well.

Yes, they are both invaluable King James Bibles to have.

I like the KJVER because it gets rid of the thees and thous. Just be careful to not believe the footnote definitions. That's the only downside. I also like the KJVER Sword Study Bible in either black and gold, or red and gold with thumbnail index. Probably the most beautiful Bible to own and handle.

The Defined King James is great for doing word studies and getting to know the odd words in the King James. One thing you could do is copy and paste the KJV (from a website or software, or app) into Google documents one chapter at a time; Then you can add your own footnote definitions on certain words and or add your own comments, etc. (as you read through the Defined King James Bible).

If I run into a tough verse to understand, I will look at Modern Translations at either Biblehub, or Biblegateway. If necessary, I also use the Strong's feature at the desktop version of BlueLetterBible.org

Biblehub is good for quick verse comparisons.

Biblegateway is good for comparing whole chapters next to each other using different translations. Biblegateway is also great because it can show a super long list of different translations for one verse, too. But I like Biblehub's webpage because it is more friendlier on my eyes to read. So if I am reading the KJV online, I like Biblehub.

I use Tecarta Bible app on my Iphone and Ipad.

I sometimes use OliveTree Bible software on my IMac, too.
It depends on what I am doing.
 
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Actually, you are the one who is seeking to justify your own viewpoint. You throw away the words like “may” and “should” in John 6 in the King James Bible in favor of your own pet belief. I didn't do that. I simply believe these words in what they say plainly. For you are not explaining how these words fit in your belief.

When you read verses like John 6:47, you also have to read John 6:53 that says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." (John 6:53). Jesus said in two chapters previously the following, "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." (John 4:34). We are told that not everyone who says unto Him, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21). The will of God (i.e. God the Father) is our sanctification (See: 1 Thessalonians 4:3).



Two problems here.

#1. God chooses devils or evil men to be his disciples if you believe He chose Judas as a disciple with him already being a devil. But if this is so, then why did Jesus condemn the Pharisees for them being of their father the devil? According to what you said so far: Did not Jesus choose a devil to be his disciple?

#2. Judas did not really betray anyone because His loyalty was always to the evil one and God knew that. So the word “betray” in your Bible is a lie. You cannot betray anyone if you never were loyal to them in the first place.​

The Psalms say that Judas was Jesus' familiar friend and Judas lifted up his heel against him (Psalms 41:9).



While God did know ahead of time of Judas' betrayal, again you cannot betray anyone unless you were once loyal to him. Otherwise you can never truly betray them.

When speaking of the twelve (See: Matthew 10:5): Jesus called his disciples as sheep among wolves (which would have included Judas because He is among the twelve).

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying” (Matthew 10:5) .... “go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 10:6) ...“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...” (Matthew 10:16)



This is not a universal truth in 1 John 2:19 as a reference to all believers. John was referring to a specific group of false believers who were gnostics (i.e. who thought they could sin and still be saved in the fact that sin was an illusion or non-existent - 1 John 1:8, and who denied the incarnation of Jesus Christ or the Word being made flesh - 1 John 4:3).

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)

Many love to quote from Paul to defend OSAS, but in reality, Paul is against Eternal Security. For Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).



God did not create evil people in the sense of setting out to make them evil. It was their choice or decision to be evil. God will one day resurrection the wicked and they will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
"This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He has sent." I'm not going tp continue arguing with you cause all you're doing is misinterpreting the scriptures and trying to make them say something they're not saying. But I'm just going to get at the gist of the matter without getting sidetracked by misinterpretations of the scripture.

So, here's the gist of the matter: Let's face it. What we're talking about is are we saved by our works or are we saved by the Grace and love of Jesus? The OSAS people (like me) believe that we are saved by Grace. The NOSAS people (that's you) believe that we are saved by works. So let's use the scriptures to see who's right. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by Grace are ye saved through Faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest any man should boast." So here it specifically says we're not saved by works. So the scriptures and I say we're not saved by works, we're saved by Grace. You say we're saved by works but God's word says you're wrong. Why do you insist on staying wrong instead of acknowledging the truth of God's word? Is it because you want to boast that you are some kind of Holy righteous person who always does things right and is obedient to God's rules so you deserve to bask in God's glory in Heaven? Do you actually think that you are so righteous yourself that you deserve to go to Heaven by reason of the fact that you are obedient to some of God's rules? The bible says "There is none righteous, no, not one. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good and sinneth not. That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." I've read some of your misinterpretations of these verses also but I won't argue with those. I will say that I believe the word and that it says what it means and means what it says. The main thing that these verses are saying is nobody is good enough or righteous enough to deserve God's glory in Heaven. But you say that by obeying God's commandments you can deserve Heaven. Again, the scriptures have proven you wrong. So, since everybody is a sinner and undeserving of heaven, how can anybody get saved? Not by obeying a bunch of commandments. because, if we obey the commandments we're still sinners. Except for one commandment, God's commandment to believe in Jesus. because then when you repent of your sins and accept Jesus, He'll come into your life and wash away all your sins, forgive your sins and give you His free gift of everlasting life. So, are you willing to do this? Admit that you're a dirty rotten sinner undeserving to stand in God's presence and glory and ask Him to forgive you and accept Jesus' atonement for your sin? That's the only way to be saved. There's no other way. As the apostle Peter tells us, "Neither is there Salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
 
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Yes, they are both invaluable King James Bibles to have.

I like the KJVER because it gets rid of the thees and thous. Just be careful to not believe the footnote definitions. That's the only downside. I also like the KJVER Sword Study Bible in either black and gold, or red and gold with thumbnail index. Probably the most beautiful Bible to own and handle.

The Defined King James is great for doing word studies and getting to know the odd words in the King James. One thing you could do is copy and paste the KJV (from a website or software, or app) into Google documents one chapter at a time; Then you can add your own footnote definitions on certain words and or add your own comments, etc. (as you read through the Defined King James Bible).

If I run into a tough verse to understand, I will look at Modern Translations at either Biblehub, or Biblegateway. If necessary, I also use the Strong's feature at the desktop version of BlueLetterBible.org

Biblehub is good for quick verse comparisons.

Biblegateway is good for comparing whole chapters next to each other using different translations. Biblegateway is also great because it can show a super long list of different translations for one verse, too. But I like Biblehub's webpage because it is more friendlier on my eyes to read. So if I am reading the KJV online, I like Biblehub.

I use Tecarta Bible app on my Iphone and Ipad.

I sometimes use OliveTree Bible software on my IMac, too.
It depends on what I am doing.
Thank you for all the recommendations and just everything I appreciate it alot and I will look into all of that. Also thank you for just giving me some guidance and alot of bible verses that support what you said thats a big deal to have scripture to back up everything you say. And I will look into getting those bibles also are you responding on a computer or Mac im amazed at how fast you respond haha.
 
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"This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He has sent." I'm not going tp continue arguing with you cause all you're doing is misinterpreting the scriptures and trying to make them say something they're not saying. But I'm just going to get at the gist of the matter without getting sidetracked by misinterpretations of the scripture.

Right, believing in the One (Jesus) in whom He (the Father) sent means believing in everything Jesus taught, said, and did. One is not believing in Jesus if they are not doing what He says. Jesus says, “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Also, Matthew 7:21 says “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” We learn of the will of the Father (or the will of God) in 1 Thessalonians 4:3. It says: “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

You said:
So, here's the gist of the matter: Let's face it. What we're talking about is are we saved by our works or are we saved by the Grace and love of Jesus? The OSAS people (like me) believe that we are saved by Grace.

Not true. You just said that the work of God is to believe in the One in who He sent. So that's a work. Jesus said so. Another problem with OSAS is that it turns God's grace into a license for immorality that Jude 1:4 warns us against. There are different degrees of turning God's grace into a license for immorality but that is the ultimate end game in OSAS.

George Sodini, mass murderer, suicide victim, and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote; “Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”

Jack Rickard, a deacon at Rick Knapp's church (Where George Sodini was taught) knew George and stated the following:

"George is going to heaven, but he's not going to get his rewards." (Valley News Dispatch, 8-8-09, written by Michael Aubele).​

Source used:
George Sodini.


The NOSAS people (that's you)

Yep, and your an OSAS person. However, the OSAS belief is not only unbiblical, it is highly immoral. I had a guy once admit to me in person that he could mow down a crowd with a submachine gun and he would still be saved while doing so. Obviously he never read or understood Titus 2:11-12 that says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. Obviously he never understood what Jesus meant when He warned folks about how a person can be in danger of hellfire by looking upon a woman in lust (See: Matthew 5:28-30).

You said:
believe that we are saved by works. So let's use the scriptures to see who's right. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by Grace are ye saved through Faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest any man should boast." So here it specifically says we're not saved by works. So the scriptures and I say we're not saved by works, we're saved by Grace. You say we're saved by works but God's word says you're wrong. Why do you insist on staying wrong instead of acknowledging the truth of God's word? Is it because you want to boast that you are some kind of Holy righteous person who always does things right and is obedient to God's rules so you deserve to bask in God's glory in Heaven? Do you actually think that you are so righteous yourself that you deserve to go to Heaven by reason of the fact that you are obedient to some of God's rules?

So you are a mind reader?

First, you automatically make wrong assumptions about what I believe.

Second, a person can make the Bible say anything they want if they isolate certain verses out of the context of the whole of Scripture.

Three, I believe the Lord is the ultimate source of my salvation both in Justification and in Sanctification. We are initially and foundationally by God's grace (Justification). This is the first step in the salvation process that is without the deeds of the Law alone. Then we enter into the second step or stage of the salvation process called: Sanctification (Which is a work of God done through the believer). I believe it is wrong if a believer thinks that they can boast in their own works or deeds to try and save themselves without God's grace and without believing it is God who does the good work through them. I alone can do nothing. I am nothing. Only God alone is good. So it is God who does the good work through me. Why do you think the Bible talks about the fruits of the Spirit instead of the fruit of the believer? It's because it is God who ultimately does the good work. Yes, God does not force us to do good. Salvation is synergistic. Salvation is cooperative. God is salvation. We cooperate with God and He first saves us by His grace, and then He does the good work through us.

Four, most Christians today fail to understand that Paul argued against Circumcision Salvationism (Which is Works Alone Salvationism). Compare Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, with Galatians 5:2, and Galatians 2:3, Romans 3:1). Circumcision Salvationism is the false belief back then that said that a male had to first be circumcised to be saved. If they believed this way, they would be making the Law ALONE the basis of their salvation and not Jesus Christ.

Five, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, Romans 11:6, and Titus 3:5 are all referring to the FIRST STEP of salvation (which is being saved by God's grace). Also, in these verses Paul is also condemning “Works ALONE Salvationism” (that did not include God's grace at all).

You have to read the whole counsel of God's Word in regards to Paul:

Paul says: “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).

Paul says, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Paul says: “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

Paul says: “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

Paul says: “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

The bible says "There is none righteous, no, not one. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good and sinneth not. That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." I've read some of your misinterpretations of these verses also but I won't argue with those. I will say that I believe the word and that it says what it means and means what it says. The main thing that these verses are saying is nobody is good enough or righteous enough to deserve God's glory in Heaven.

Right, and if you believe that Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 refers to the present day life of the believer then you must also believe that the believer today does not have any understanding and they do not seek after God, too. For Romans 3:11 says,

“There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” (Romans 3:11).​

In other words, if you believe Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 applies to the present life of the believer, then you must also apply Romans 3:11 to the current present day life of the believer, as well. If so, then you are not qualified to give me any advice involving the Bible.

You said:
But you say that by obeying God's commandments you can deserve Heaven.

No, no. I did not say this, dear sir. Jesus says so.

“...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17).

“25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).​

Notice Jesus' response to the lawyer. He did not correct the Lawyer and say that he was wrong and he could not earn his salvation by obeying God's commands like loving God and loving your neighbor. Jesus said, “you have answered right (or correctly). Do this and you shall live.”

If you were right, Jesus should have said something like:
“Wrong lawyer!” “That's salvation by works heresy!”

But Jesus never said that.

You said:
Again, the scriptures have proven you wrong. So, since everybody is a sinner and undeserving of heaven, how can anybody get saved? Not by obeying a bunch of commandments. because, if we obey the commandments we're still sinners. Except for one commandment, God's commandment to believe in Jesus. because then when you repent of your sins and accept Jesus, He'll come into your life and wash away all your sins, forgive your sins and give you His free gift of everlasting life. So, are you willing to do this? Admit that you're a dirty rotten sinner undeserving to stand in God's presence and glory and ask Him to forgive you and accept Jesus' atonement for your sin? That's the only way to be saved. There's no other way. As the apostle Peter tells us, "Neither is there Salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

I sought forgiveness, and accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior and believed that He died for my sins via a tract called “This Was Your Life.” I still believe that I was saved by God's grace that one particular wonderful day back in 1992.

But when I began to take to truly studying God's Word seriously and to ask God for the understanding on what it says vs. what man says in the church, then that is when things really started to open up for me. I discovered that we are saved by both Justification (God's grace), AND Sanctification (Living holy only by God's power and inner working).
 
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Thank you for all the recommendations and just everything I appreciate it alot and I will look into all of that. Also thank you for just giving me some guidance and alot of bible verses that support what you said thats a big deal to have scripture to back up everything you say. And I will look into getting those bibles also are you responding on a computer or Mac im amazed at how fast you respond haha.

You are most welcome.

As for my speed: I was fortunate to have typing class back in my ole country town high school.
 
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Freed Man

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Many love to quote from Paul to defend OSAS, but in reality, Paul is against Eternal Security. For Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).
The Apostle Paul definitely believes in eternal security. I'm glad you started with the verse in Galatians, Galatian 5:4. It just shows how you misinterpret the scriptures. Let's read the verse in it's entirety first, "Christ is become of no affect unto you whosever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from Grace." The NOSAS people try to use the last part of this verse to try to prove that you can lose your Salvation, "See you can lose your salvation cause it says you can fall from Grace". But let's take the whole verse in context, Christ is become of no affect unto you whosever of you are justified by the law. In other words, the people who are fallen from grace are those who don't believe in Grace, those who believe you have to obey a whole set of rules to be saved. It's basically saying that if you believe we're saved by works not by simple faith in Jesus, then you're not really saved and Christ cannot really do anything for you. He's become of no affect unto you.

I have a few verses of my own. "Not every one that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity." I know NOSAS try to make it sound like Jesus is saying, just because you say Lord Lord doesn't mean your saved. you have to obey His commandments and have good works also. But reading it in context the people who said, Lord Lord to Him, did have many good and wonderful works. But the problem is they thought those works saved them. They thought all those works that they did for the Lord would cause them to deserve to be in the kingdom of heaven. But they can't really know Jesus if they think that they are saved by their works instead of just trusting in Jesus alone for their Salvation. So instead of getting a pat on the back for their good and righteous works Jesus told them to depart from Him and called them workers of iniquity.

"Therefore whosever hears these sayings of mine and doeth them I will liken unto him a wise man which built his house upon a rock. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house and it fell not; for it was founded upon a rock. And everyone that heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man which built his house upon the sand; and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house and it fell; and great was the fall of it." I know you're thinking this shows you have to obey all of Jesus sayings or you can't be saved. In other, words have good works. But let's take it in the right context again. Who is the Rock? Jesus Christ, right? "They drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ" 1Corinthians 10:4 "We are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone." Ephesians 2:20. So as long as you believe in the Rock, Christ Jesus you are building your house upon a Rock. and the Apostle Paul tells us: "For other foundation can no man lay than is laid, which is Christ Jesus. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon he shall receive a reward; if any man's work shall be burned he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." See, the Apostle Paul does believe in eternal security. When you get saved by believing in Jesus you still have the option to follow and obey Jesus throughout your life. If you don't follow the way you should, the house you might be building on the rock might blow away but because your Faith was in the Rock, Jesus Christ, you yourself are still saved.
 
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fwGod

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So if I was to slip up one time and willfully sin like plan to go and do something that was for sure a sin your toast its over ? Lost salvation right there cant ever get it back ? What if you didn't know it was a sin at the time what you where planning to do?
This is not about seeing how much you can get away with, it's about desiring to mature and please God, your Father who loves you.

Your amount of wrong-doings will decrease according to how long you've been saved.. How obedient you've been within that time. How much you read the Bible, understand it enough to willingly behave in line with God's good pleasure.

Depending on your salvation-age, living the Christian life is comparative to a baby that grows to toddler, that grows to child to pre-teen to teen to hit your 20's college age or marriage age, 30's old enough to be having your own children, and so on.

To those Christians the apostle Paul taught, he said they were babes in Christ because they had so much sin still in their lives.

Babies like being babies, but they see people around them who are standing up straight and walking around so they want to do that. They know that they need to eat food when they get hungry. And they exercise their little bodies, working toward each milestone, rollover on their stomach. Then sit up on their own, then stand up on their own, then walk on their own.

Then they have to get to where they don't need those diapers. Then learn to dress themselves.. the growth process never ends. And many mistakes are made along the way.

That's why making mistakes, doing wrong, having faults, sinning, does not mean that your not saved, it just means that you're not perfect. But all the while the apostle Paul said that we are to desire to grow according to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ and have completeness in Him. We are to rely on what God's word says, all the encouragements, all the promises for every child of God.

The goal is maturity in Christ.

God designed His Word to be like eating food. Jeremiah says "I found your Word and I ate it, and it was a delight to my heart."
Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The more of God's Word that you put in your heart, the more that He'll be all the while working in you so that you'll be increasingly willing and joyfully to do of His good pleasure, so the more mature you'll be.

Until then, you should get very familiar with repenting everytime that you realize that you made a mistake (sinned). Just repent. Your emotions don't have to get involved by blubbering and feeling awful about yourself.

That delays the process of getting forgiveness because if you feel awful then you won't think that you deserve to be forgiven. The worst that you were was before you got saved, and God forgave you all that sin.
So he's certainly not going to refuse to forgive you when you repent while you are his child. Don't refuse his forgiveness just because you think that you should know better than to have done it. That is self-condemnation. Don't put up with it. Lean heavy on God's love for you. Love forgives the multitude of sin.

The conviction (not condemnation) but conviction that you've made a booboo, is from your heart. So repent sincerely and ask God to help you do better, and let Him know what you'd like to do better by quoting a scripture that covers that good and better thing to improve your thinking, your speech, your actions.

The Christian life is a process. You'll never be perfect but you should always be looking forward to growing toward maturity.. and always pursue God's will and always desire to please God.
 
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The Apostle Paul definitely believes in eternal security. I'm glad you started with the verse in Galatians, Galatian 5:4. It just shows how you misinterpret the scriptures. Let's read the verse in it's entirety first, "Christ is become of no affect unto you whosever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from Grace." The NOSAS people try to use the last part of this verse to try to prove that you can lose your Salvation, "See you can lose your salvation cause it says you can fall from Grace". But let's take the whole verse in context, Christ is become of no affect unto you whosever of you are justified by the law. In other words, the people who are fallen from grace are those who don't believe in Grace, those who believe you have to obey a whole set of rules to be saved. It's basically saying that if you believe we're saved by works not by simple faith in Jesus, then you're not really saved and Christ cannot really do anything for you. He's become of no affect unto you.

I have a few verses of my own. "Not every one that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity." I know NOSAS try to make it sound like Jesus is saying, just because you say Lord Lord doesn't mean your saved. you have to obey His commandments and have good works also. But reading it in context the people who said, Lord Lord to Him, did have many good and wonderful works. But the problem is they thought those works saved them. They thought all those works that they did for the Lord would cause them to deserve to be in the kingdom of heaven. But they can't really know Jesus if they think that they are saved by their works instead of just trusting in Jesus alone for their Salvation. So instead of getting a pat on the back for their good and righteous works Jesus told them to depart from Him and called them workers of iniquity.

"Therefore whosever hears these sayings of mine and doeth them I will liken unto him a wise man which built his house upon a rock. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house and it fell not; for it was founded upon a rock. And everyone that heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man which built his house upon the sand; and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house and it fell; and great was the fall of it." I know you're thinking this shows you have to obey all of Jesus sayings or you can't be saved. In other, words have good works. But let's take it in the right context again. Who is the Rock? Jesus Christ, right? "They drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ" 1Corinthians 10:4 "We are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone." Ephesians 2:20. So as long as you believe in the Rock, Christ Jesus you are building your house upon a Rock. and the Apostle Paul tells us: "For other foundation can no man lay than is laid, which is Christ Jesus. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon he shall receive a reward; if any man's work shall be burned he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." See, the Apostle Paul does believe in eternal security. When you get saved by believing in Jesus you still have the option to follow and obey Jesus throughout your life. If you don't follow the way you should, the house you might be building on the rock might blow away but because your Faith was in the Rock, Jesus Christ, you yourself are still saved.

I have another more pressing matter that needs my attention. If I have time later: Maybe I will create another thread on this discussion in reply to your specific verses you brought up if the Lord guides me to do so. But to address quickly one thing you said. You said Paul agrees with Eternal Security.

However, actually Paul is against Eternal Security. For Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).
 
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Beanieboy

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"This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He has sent." I'm not going tp continue arguing with you cause all you're doing is misinterpreting the scriptures and trying to make them say something they're not saying. But I'm just going to get at the gist of the matter without getting sidetracked by misinterpretations of the scripture.

So, here's the gist of the matter: Let's face it. What we're talking about is are we saved by our works or are we saved by the Grace and love of Jesus? The OSAS people (like me) believe that we are saved by Grace. The NOSAS people (that's you) believe that we are saved by works. So let's use the scriptures to see who's right. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by Grace are ye saved through Faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest any man should boast." So here it specifically says we're not saved by works. So the scriptures and I say we're not saved by works, we're saved by Grace. You say we're saved by works but God's word says you're wrong. Why do you insist on staying wrong instead of acknowledging the truth of God's word? Is it because you want to boast that you are some kind of Holy righteous person who always does things right and is obedient to God's rules so you deserve to bask in God's glory in Heaven? Do you actually think that you are so righteous yourself that you deserve to go to Heaven by reason of the fact that you are obedient to some of God's rules? The bible says "There is none righteous, no, not one. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good and sinneth not. That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." I've read some of your misinterpretations of these verses also but I won't argue with those. I will say that I believe the word and that it says what it means and means what it says. The main thing that these verses are saying is nobody is good enough or righteous enough to deserve God's glory in Heaven. But you say that by obeying God's commandments you can deserve Heaven. Again, the scriptures have proven you wrong. So, since everybody is a sinner and undeserving of heaven, how can anybody get saved? Not by obeying a bunch of commandments. because, if we obey the commandments we're still sinners. Except for one commandment, God's commandment to believe in Jesus. because then when you repent of your sins and accept Jesus, He'll come into your life and wash away all your sins, forgive your sins and give you His free gift of everlasting life. So, are you willing to do this? Admit that you're a dirty rotten sinner undeserving to stand in God's presence and glory and ask Him to forgive you and accept Jesus' atonement for your sin? That's the only way to be saved. There's no other way. As the apostle Peter tells us, "Neither is there Salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Aren't you both right?
1 john 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

So can you be saved by God and hate your brother? You aren't loving God, so I would say no. If you are a tree not bearing good fruit, then of what purpose are you to God? If you speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, you are merely a noisy gong to God.

Does that mean you "earn" Salvation? No, but if you have Salvation and want to love God, you need to forgive, to love, to show mercy.

If you bring a date flowers and take him/her to dinner, are you trying to earn their love? Demand love as payment for services rendered? Or are you doing it because* you love them?

Do you think your spouse who only makes themself dinner actually loves you?


Love gives fruit to the acts of kindness.
Lack of love is a barren tree, which is cut down and burned.

Is this actually that difficult to grasp? And who wants to be Christian and not love their neighbor besides someone like Fred Phelps? If anything, he wants to hate the world and condemn it, and tell them, so he hides behind Christianity.It's like a child trying to lie. No one choose one or the other. I'm kind to others, not as a payday in heaven, but because of Christ's love in my heart. It becomes your nature.
 
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So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

We are saved by grace, by accepting Jesus death as a substitute for our life time of failures. However, this should motivate us not to sin. The bible tells us "let him who names the name of the LORD depart from iniquity". As Christian's we are not saved by our sinlessness, but we should not be excusing sin, we should be moving away from it.

There is a principal in the bible that if we choose sin consistently over righteousness we become blinded to the truth. We can if we sin enough become totally blind to the fact that there is grace, and is a sacrifice to cover our sins.

So the short answer is, live under God's approval and grace, but move away from sin.
 
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Freed Man

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But when I began to take to truly studying God's Word seriously and to ask God for the understanding on what it says vs. what man says in the church, then that is when things really started to open up for me. I discovered that we are saved by both Justification (God's grace), AND Sanctification (Living holy only by God's power and inner working).
Maybe you need to study the bible a little more and take all of it in context. For example, what you are saying here is that we are saved partly by works and partly by Grace. You call it Sanctification. And you're right, we do have to live the way God wants us to by His power, the power of the Holy Ghost. But no amount of working hard to live a Godly and Holy Life will cause us to earn or be deserving of eternal life. We're all still imperfect human beings who will sin and make mistakes.

And as far of the doctrine of being saved by both Grace and works is concerned, the Apostle Paul pounded a nail into the coffin of that False doctrine when he said: " And if by Grace then is it no more of works, otherwise grace is no more grace; but if it be of works then is it no more of grace otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6

Our Salvation can't never be both by works and Grace, because grace and works are opposite. Works means you can save yourself by being good and earning your salvation, and grace means it is a gift given to you by Faith, and the only won who could pay for it is Jesus. and He paid for your salvation with His own life. He took your punishment for you so you wouldn't have to be punished for your own sins.
 
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To all:

I would like to say that sometimes false accusations are thrown my way in that I need to read my Bible more and or I am not aware of verses like Romans 11:6, etc. (when in reality I am fully aware of such verses and I have been studying the Bible daily for many years - of which I will sometimes ask God for the understanding on His Word).

First, I have established in this thread that Paul established Sanctification as a part of salvation (After a person is saved by God's grace). One can check out these verses by Paul in my post here (within this thread).

Second, most misunderstand Paul when he speaks negatively against the Law and they fail to realize that Paul was fighting against the heresy of “Circumcision Salvationism” at that time. This was the false belief that taught that you had to first be circumcised according to the Old Testament Law of Moses in order to be saved (Instead of placing faith in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). In other words, if a person thought that they first had to be saved by circumcision instead of by faith in Christ, then they would be making the Law the basis for their salvation and not Jesus. You can check out the verses on “Circumcision Salvationism in my post here (within this thread).

Three, I established the truth that sin is separation from God according to Jesus and His followers. You can check out these verses in my post here (within this thread).

Four, the Bible teaches that you can fall away from the faith or lose your salvation. You can check out these verses in my post here (within this thread).

Five, while we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace through faith, here is a list of verses that clearly show that Sanctification is also required. For...

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:
(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).
 
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As for Romans 11:6:

This verse has to be read from the perspective that Paul is referring to the first process of salvation (Which is being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us - See: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is a process of salvation is commonly referred to as the “Justification.” This is an aspect of salvation whereby we are initially and foundationally saved by Jesus Christ by faith that is a process of salvation that is without the deeds of the Law. Paul is not referring to the second aspect or step in the salvation process called “Sanctification” because it is the next step that follows. We cannot put the cart before the horse. One must first be saved by God's grace without the deeds of the Law in order to be initially saved.

Romans 11:6 is trying to preach against “Law ALONE Salvationism” via by the 613 Laws of Moses (that did not include God's grace). While certain laws in the Law of Moses has been repeated in the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers, we are not under that contract or set of commands as a whole anymore. We look primarily to Jesus and His followers within the pages of the New Testament to obey God today. Okay, let's look at the verse:

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” (Romans 11:6).

So when Paul says if it be of grace, then it is no more works, he is referring to “Works ALONE Salvationism” (or Law ALONE Salvationism) that did not include any grace whatsoever. Paul is concerned with a person first being saved by God's grace in the 1st step or aspect of salvation. Sanctification will always follow or flow out of being saved by God's grace. This is why Paul is not mentioning being saved by works at this point.

In addition, the context is referring to Israel in how they needed to first be initially saved by God's grace. The Israelites who rejected their Messiah made salvation all about a system of “Works Alone Salvationism.”
 
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Freed Man

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To all:

I would like to say that sometimes false accusations are thrown my way in that I need to read my Bible more and or I am not aware of verses like Romans 11:6, etc. (when in reality I am fully aware of such verses and I have been studying the Bible daily for many years - of which I will sometimes ask God for the understanding on His Word).

First, I have established in this thread that Paul established Sanctification as a part of salvation (After a person is saved by God's grace). One can check out these verses by Paul in my post here (within this thread).

Second, most misunderstand Paul when he speaks negatively against the Law and they fail to realize that Paul was fighting against the heresy of “Circumcision Salvationism” at that time. This was the false belief that taught that you had to first be circumcised according to the Old Testament Law of Moses in order to be saved (Instead of placing faith in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). In other words, if a person thought that they first had to be saved by circumcision instead of by faith in Christ, then they would be making the Law the basis for their salvation and not Jesus. You can check out the verses on “Circumcision Salvationism in my post here (within this thread).

Three, I established the truth that sin is separation from God according to Jesus and His followers. You can check out these verses in my post here (within this thread).

Four, the Bible teaches that you can fall away from the faith or lose your salvation. You can check out these verses in my post here (within this thread).

Five, while we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace through faith, here is a list of verses that clearly show that Sanctification is also required. For...

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:
(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

None of these multitude of verses that you quoted prove that you can lose your salvation after you have repented of your sins and received Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Some of them are about rewards in Heaven. Sure we need to follow Jesus and try to live for Him every day of our lives, and, if we do there will be a reward waiting for us in Heaven. Some will get greater rewards than others depending on what they did for the Lord while in this life. And some won't get any rewards at all, but they will still be saved. Other verses that you quoted don't even refer to born again Christians at all. They refer to people who aren't saved in the first place because they didn't really believe in Jesus. They might profess that they know God, maybe even go to church but don't really have a personal relationship with Jesus. They think they know God, but can't really know him without knowing Jesus. "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father; but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid; which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this Foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, for it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work shall abide which He hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." His works were burnt up because they weren't the kind of works God wanted him to do, but because he had received and believed in Jesus he still stood on the solid rock foundation, therefore he himself was still saved.
 
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