A thought.

Michael Collum said:

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

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The Lord sent His Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. The Holy Spirit has brought clarification to the Body of Christ over the centuries and we can rest assured He will clarify this contentious topic as well.


How does the Body of Christ Mature.

The Apostle Paul gave the early disciples the whole counsel of God. They were taught the full revelation of Christ, His character and His purposes.

`For I (Paul) have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)

Here is a summary of the main truths, then the errors that came in and finally the restoring of those truths through the centuries.

1. Ministry gifts (Eph. 4: 11) - Bishops were substituted. (AD 110)
2. Holy Spirit infilling and gifts - Formalisation of worship. (3rd C)
3. Holiness - Amalgamation of Church and State. (AD 323)
4. Baptism for believers - Infant Sprinkling. (6th)
5. Justification by Faith - Penance Indulgence. (AD 1063 / Dark Ages)
6. Reformation, Lutheran - Justification by Faith. (1517)
7. Baptist - Full Immersion. (1608)
8. Methodist - Holiness. (1738)
9. Pentecostal - Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1906)
10. Apostolic - Christ`s ministries (Eph. 4: 11) (1916) & the Eternal Purposes.

Christ`s ministries, (apostle, prophet, teacher, pastor, evangelist) develop the believers and the whole Body into spiritual maturity and understanding. They stimulate the perfecting of the `Christ life` and promote the function and ministry of each member in the Body.

When Christ ascended `He gave some (people) to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ,

Till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ......may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ.` (Eph. 4: 11 - 15)

Michael Collum said:

This is why peer review is important. For every sign you see being fulfilled, another person can see A, B &Q signs not being fulfilled, so it's not a complete fulfillment.

In terms of Jesus returning, only the Father knows that, He didn't even tell the Son. So why would He tell anyone else?

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When Jesus was on earth He didn`t know, but now He is at the right hand of the Father having taken His place in the Godhead, He is all knowing.

Michael Collum said:

This is why peer review is important. For every sign you see being fulfilled, another person can see A, B &Q signs not being fulfilled, so it's not a complete fulfillment.

In terms of Jesus returning, only the Father knows that, He didn't even tell the Son. So why would He tell anyone else?

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Not a complete fulfillment?
You believe the US embassy is not in Jerusalem?
Or you believe there were no US/Iraq wars?

Like I said. This is a long chapter.
As of now I'm waiting for Trump to give Israel a host. And after he does the chapter still won't be over. But that will be another verse that has been fulfilled.

Michael Collum said:

This is why peer review is important. For every sign you see being fulfilled, another person can see A, B &Q signs not being fulfilled, so it's not a complete fulfillment.

In terms of Jesus returning, only the Father knows that, He didn't even tell the Son. So why would He tell anyone else?

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Jesus knew more than he let on.
You want me to show how?

RushMAN said:

Actually it is not a theory because I was talking about the fact that some protestants take the book of Revelations and other places in Sacred Scripture literally.

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It would have been a fact if you had stated it that way, but you didn't. What you really said was:

The theories are garbage because they take it literally to much

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That's an opinion, not a fact. Whether or not they do it too much is your own theory.

Michael Collum said:

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

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I don't subscribe to any theories. I simply keep everything open until I see a prophecy being fulfilled.

Studying eschatology is a very complex matter. You can't just pick a few verses and assume you have complete insights to what's going to happen. You can't focus on the NT only, you have to focus on the OT and combine them both to see the whole picture. It's a labyrinth.

And there's the human behavior issue as well as many are resistant to change or modify their views. They can't be sculpted to perfection like clay. They stick to what they believe till kingdom come. lol

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

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That particular verse only talks about the "when" and not the "how". Eschatology is not pointless, it's prophecy.

What's causing immense confusion is for someone to sell his theories and teaches others, make a movie about it with a famous actor to make it convincing, sell books with their name on it with a Phd title to make it sound authoritative (lol), when their theory is half baked and full of errors and their main motive is just making a profit.

People always look up to an authority figure and assume they know what they are talking about. They don't bother scrutinizing it or testing it. Don't buy into this deception. It's a spell to make you buy their products. I'd rather listen to a little girl in a remote village in the Amazon when her eschatology makes sense and her prophecy comes to pass. And not those glamor and glitter, people in high places with Phd's with famous and powerful friends to sell you a copy of their book and movie. Don't fall into this trap.

Michael Collum said:

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

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Luke 21:8
And He said, “See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them."

There about ten distinct interpretations in Eschatology. If one of these interpretations is correct, then the other nine views are automatically incorrect, of course. These are not good odds to take on, when you sit down to play eschatology. There will always be signs that the return of Jesus is immanent, but everything continues, on and on.

RushMAN said:

Did I say that? No. What I said was the whole letter was to 1st Century Christians not 21st century Christians. Look I lay it out for you I don't believe any futurist silliness

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It was to 7, 1st century, churches. God allowed it to be placed in the Bible. Take it up with God, if you think it is not going to happen literally. John said he was a witness to the events. If you doubt John's eye witness account, why? John is not testifying at a trial. It is a warning for the church to always be ready. Only the wise one's will be ready.

public hermit said:

I think the question people should ask themselves is, "Does my focus on eschatology contribute or detract, right now, from who I am being called to be as a member of His body?"

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Wouldn't that all depend on how much time one spends on it?

Michael Collum said:

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

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As you have stated, God is not the author of confusion. With that pure Truth in place, even Christ does not know when The Great and Terrible day of The Lord. 2 Timothy 3 is sobering.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

That's also a theory. I feel the same about that statement as I do about all of the other theories.

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Ha ha! Well said!

klutedavid said:

Luke 21:8
And He said, “See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them."

There about ten distinct interpretations in Eschatology. If one of these interpretations is correct, then the other nine views are automatically incorrect, of course. These are not good odds to take on, when you sit down to play eschatology. There will always be signs that the return of Jesus is immanent, but everything continues, on and on.

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David, even your answer is scriptural!
2 Peter 3:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Bobber said:

Wouldn't that all depend on how much time one spends on it?

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I'm not sure what you mean. Would more time be better?

Michael Collum said:

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

Click to expand...

There are some eschatological predictions all Christians can agree on like the Second Coming and Judgment Day which are both in the creeds. Then there is the stuff we fight about like rapture, millennial reign , tribulation. Dispensationalists and Catholics have broad overviews that make sense of the prophecies , think it is worth having a feel for the expectations but be ready to be surprised by the reality. So such discussions and convictions are not garbage but we should hang loose on some details

public hermit said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Would more time be better?

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Actually it can be both. One can spend too much time on it but then again not enough. Just like with anything. You need a balance. An illustration that has come to my mind.....not enough oil in a locomotive engine you have a problem.....too much of it you've got a problem too.

Bobber said:

Actually it can be both. One can spend too much time on it but then again not enough. Just like with anything. You need a balance. An illustration that has come to my mind.....not enough oil in a locomotive engine you have a problem.....too much of it you've got a problem too.

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That makes sense. Nice illustration.

They're all just garbage except the one that flatly states "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Everything else is just idle speculation.

Michael Collum said:

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

Click to expand...

You mean about all of the plagues and judgements in Revelation? I believe in a rapture where Christ comes to ascend all of us to heaven so we don't have to endure the coming judgement. The coming judgement is for unbelievers and the unGodly not for us.

I don't take the judgements literally but I do believe they are symbolic of what's to come. I do believe we are living in the end times and that God's judgements while they might not be in my lifetime or my children's lifetime, they are not far away. I'd say within the next 200 years or so if I had my guess.

The world is just ever evolving in unGodliness, violence, famine, and Earthquakes just as Christ said would happen shortly before his return. So, his return is near.