The Great Tribulation: 66-70 AD, or

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

He will rule with a rod of iron in His millennial Kingdom.

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Does the potter correct the flawed pots, like a schoolmaster, or does He destroy the flawed pots.
The answer is found below.


Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


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Fullness of the Gentiles said:

According to you, Peter and Paul are both wrong - as well as Revelation 12 which tells us that after having been cast out of heaven following the time Christ was caught up to God and His throne, Satan, after going to war against the woman, went to make war with "the rest of her seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ".

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Do you believe the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

How can it be chronological, based on Christ returning as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16?

Do you believe Christ is not yet born, based on Revelation 12?

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


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Fullness of the Gentiles said:

They would say that when the millennial Kingdom of Christ comes, His saints who were worthy and who will be resurrected, will be reigning with Him over the nations as did the judges in the Old Testament - because the unbiased person will see it written in the scriptures:

Mat 25:31-32 But when the Son of man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His glory. And all nations shall be gathered before Him. And He shall separate them from one another, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats.

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Why did you ignore the rest of the passage?

Matthew 25:46 leaves no mortals left alive on the planet.

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Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Ha Ha. Sometimes I get tired of thinking about the prophetic events surrounding the second coming of the Lord.

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Ivan Hlavanda said:

So no arguments against what I wrote, so you assume false things. I can only gain by dying. And I am prepared to die any day. I love the Lord more than my own life. How do I know this, because last year I was diagnosed with a large brain tumour and yet I remained faithful and happy and I thanked God for it. I am not afraid of dying, I just live every day knowing I might not be here anymore by the end of it, whether I die or I get raptured. As Paul says: 'Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,' (1 Cor. 15:51). The signs that Jesus is coming back are everywhere. As Lord Jesus said in Matthew 24, bad servant is the one who says my Lord is delayed, good servant is the one who waits for His Lord everyday. Good servants is longing for the Lord everyday.

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I pay attention to what is going on in and around israel because as I understand it, most all prophecy centers around that area.
But I often take breaks from talking about it. You may see me dissappear from the board for months at a time.

shilohsfoal said:

Though the dead sea is the lowest surface on the earth, Im betting there is a very deep black Pitt under the middle east. Somewhere close to the Persian gulf.

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Would that be a place that would fit something like this----and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit(Revelation 9:2)? Not trying to dispute anything here, just wondering if where you describe could fit what Revelation 9:2 describes?

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Does it say that? Or are you reading that into the statement? Jesus is talking about a specific group of people in that passage - not all mankind, and there are a number of other passages in scripture talking about survivors of the Day of Christ who will be ruled over with a rod of iron. I've already mentioned them to you in this thread. You need to read scripture.

Why don't you stop isolating certain verses and interpreting them in the light of your false a-mill assumptions instead of interpreting those verses in the light of the scriptures which teach that there will be nations to be ruled over by Christ and His saints after He returns? When you fail to interpret all verses of scripture in the light of all scripture, you are practicing eisegesis (reading into scripture what it does not say), not exegesis (comparing scripture with scripture and interpreting any verse in the light of all verses talking about the same things).

Now go and practice exegesis and compare the verses you are hanging onto with the verses in the Old Testament, the Revelation, and in the gospels which show Christ reigning with a rod of iron over the nations following the seventh trumpet, and His worthy saints, now resurrected, reigning with Him in His Kingdom. I have already quoted Jesus' promises in the gospel and in His Revelation to His disciples in this regard. Now go and compare scripture with scripture like a Berean, and not like someone who has to force scripture to fit his false assumptions.

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When you see Jesus on the day of His Second Coming, ask Him for how many years he will be performing funeral services after that day.

Ask Him if you can help with the funerals, and the burials.

Tell Him that He should use the rod of Iron to correct people, instead of destroying them as the text of Psalm 2 states.

Tell Him to leave the earth in a sin-cursed condition for 1,000 years before the arrival of the New Heavens, and the New Earth, because Peter was wrong in 2 Peter 3:10-13.

Ask Him if you can help rebuild a temple in earthly Jerusalem.
Ask if you can help with the animal sacrifices in this temple, when it is completed.

Ask Him when you will get your first group of mortals to teach so well that they will rebel against Him after 1,000 years.
That will be some excellent teaching you are going to do.

Tell Him to erase Revelation 11:18, and Revelation 16:15-16, so the Book of Revelation can be in chronological order.


It almost sounds like a story written by a science fiction writer.
I wish someone would make the above into a movie so that Premill promoters could really see what they are promoting.


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Timtofly said:

Are you assuming the church at Sardis disobeyed God? Do you have proof they disobeyed God?

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Whats your point?

That The coming of Jesus Christ as a Thief was a conditional first-century event based on the decisions of men???

That The coming of Jesus Christ as a Thief was delayed 2000+ years because some first-century men did or did not not repent when Jesus attempted to come back for them?

Not hardly.

St. John did not say Christ's coming to them was conditional. RATHER, what was conditional was whether or not Jesus was going to reward them or punish them at his coming to them. That Jesus was returning to those seven, first century churches of Asia Minor is not in question, if we are to trust the words of St. John and Jesus Christ.

The only conditional part to Rev 2-3 is whether each Church would be punished or rewarded (according to their works, of course). If they were obedient, they were rewarded. If disobedient, punished. The idea that Christ was making his thief's coming to them conditional is nowhere in the text.

--COMPARE THIS--

Matt 24:42-44
be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming...if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you think not

--TO THIS--

Revelation 3:1-3
"To the angel of the [first-century] church of Sardis write:...remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

The giving of either a punishment or a reward was all that was conditional, and the condition was placed upon "their works" (Matt 16:27; Rev 20:13; Rom 2:6), which Jesus was then judging in Rev 2-3 (Rev 2:2, 2:9, 2:13, 2:19, Rev 3:2, 3:8, 3:15 ). The judging of their works took place in Revelation 2-3, back in the first century, and St. John documents it for us to read about.

The thief's coming itself was not conditional, and it was fulfilled exactly when Jesus and the apostles believed it would be--in their generation.

The coming of Jesus Christ as a Thief is NOT A CONDITIONAL EVENT. According to scripture, the coming of Jesus Christ as a Thief was to take place irrespective of whether some repented and others did not -- in fact, scripture fully and uniformly teaches that some would be faithful and others unfaithful (Romans 2:5-9; Mt 25:1-13; Lk 13:24-30; 1 Cor 3:12-15). As the angel also plainly states:

Revelation 22:10-11
And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

Did you catch that? Man's repentance or lack thereof has nothing to do with the timing of the coming of Christ as a Thief. Nothing whatsoever. Note also that Jesus explicitly says that the Thyatria Prophetess movement chose not to repent, and that He was coming and would kill her and her "children." But to the rest at Thyatria (the faithful), they were to hold fast and had no additional burden placed upon them, for Jesus had rewards to give them as stated in Rev 2:26-28. We know that Christ came to them, for he came and killed the Prophetess and rewarded the faithful as he said. This is all first-century stuff here. No "Church Age," no "1948," no "21st century computer chips" -- the glorified Jesus knew of none of those modern speculative doctrines, and that makes them impossible doctrines, ones not found anywhere in scripture. Had any of those things been biblical doctrines, then Jesus would not be speaking to first-century churches about His coming TO THEM as we see him doing in Revelation 2-3, where He plainly applies the doctrine to first-century people.

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

.. in unbelief..
No, He didn't. Not in unbelief.

Think (please, please think about what you are saying), because what you are saying is that God decided to bring them back into the land "in their unbelief" when He had to kick out thousands of Arab inhabitants in the process, driving them from their property during the so-called "war of independence" that was fought by .. by who.. by God on behalf of Israel? And He did this so that He could give them all this hope of a future and a return to the land of their fathers, only so that He could bring all nations against Jerusalem and punish them yet again in a calamity which will see their houses plundered, women raped and half of the city going into captivity yet again.

I don't believe God operates that way but .. each one to his own opinion of what God is doing, and what God is allowing rebellious man to do in his rebellion against God.

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YOu have been thinking with your feelings instead of the Bible!

Ezekiel 20 :33-38
Ezekiel 22:17-22
Ezekiel 36:22-24
Isaiah 11:11-12
Ezekiel 37

These among many more passages absolutely show God is drawing Israel back to her land to piurge her and prepare her to receive her Messiah and God to fulfill HIs covenants with the natiion.

DavidPT said:

Would that be a place that would fit something like this----and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit(Revelation 9:2)? Not trying to dispute anything here, just wondering if where you describe could fit what Revelation 9:2 describes?

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I had half jokingly made a comment early that I do not believe this is a star falling to the earth, but something that appears as a falling star.
Seeing this is a time of war, this could possibly be a bunker busting nuclear missile hitting Iran's underground nuclear facility.

Could it make smoke come out of the earth?
It probably could.

Revelation 9:1 Then the fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to earth, and it was given the key to the pit of the Abyss.
Revelation 9:2 The star opened the pit of the Abyss, and smoke rose out of it like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke from the pit.


Then again I've read that Yellowstone is a target for some countries but I'm not going to worry about it.

nolidad said:

These among many more passages absolutely show God is drawing Israel back to her land to piurge her and prepare her to receive her Messiah and God to fulfill HIs covenants with the natiion.

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Do you think the Apostle Paul was confused in the passage below?
Do you think God has failed to fulfill His covenant with the nation, at Calvary?
What does "It is finished." mean to you? (John 19:30)


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


You are promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race.

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Fullness of the Gentiles said:

you have utterly failed to prove Satan is bound in the pit with the angels who are bound there

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At least you have admitted above that some of the wicked angels are bound in some manner.
We are making progress.


Now if you can prove Satan did not sin, maybe you can convince some of those here that Satan is not found in 2 Peter 2:4.


If you can prove Satan is not the king of the angels in the bottomless pit, maybe you can convince some here that he is not found in Revelation 9:11.


You still seem to be having problems proving the Book of Revelation is in chronological order, based on Revelation 11:18, and Revelation 16:15-16.


Your name calling has been interesting.
I am a retired middle school teacher. I have very thick skin.

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BABerean2 said:

Really?

There are five common words in the first verse of each passage, and the same warning to flee in the second verse of each passage.

Are you attempting to ignore the five common words in the first verse of each passage?

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Do you know anything about probability?
How many other verses in the Bible contain the same five words found in the first verse of each passage?


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Really? Is this your big argument?? I though tbetter of you!

Yes Jesus is issuing a warning to both different generation that when they see something.

In Matthew the desolation refers to a person who stands IN the Holy place.

In Luke Jesus is saying when you see armies SURROUNDING Jerusalem (not standing in the Holy Place they both must flee

There are 2 different reasons or results of the event that Jesus calles them to flee.

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

In Luke it was what Jews call the Diaspora and Jerusalem trodden down until the time fo the Gentiles be fulfilled!

In Matt. the results are:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

Tribulation not seen before or after! The rise of many false christs

Similar warnings for different signs with vastly different events!