Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

keras said:

Ezekiel's temple:
The prophecies of the prophets of Israel can be divided into three sections. They are;
1. Israel - you are being naughty. Mend your ways
2. Israel - I know you will not mend your ways so disgrace, dispersion and discipline will be your portion
3. Israel - God loves you and will restore you for both His love's sake and because of His Promises to the Fathers

But Ezekiel goes further than this. Ezekiel touches that part of God's heart that is very important. That is, His House and the Testimony it brought Him among the nations. Israel had been exceedingly evil and had behaved worse than the heathen nations around them. Even the heathen never swapped their gods, but Israel has swapped the Living and True God for demon-idols. Israel, as per the threats of the Contract of Sinai, was about to be invaded by Nebuchadnezzar, have their City and Temple destroyed, be slaughtered and be carried off to Babylon to serve foreign kings. One thing remained to be done before Nebuchadnezzar entered Jerusalem and defiled and destroyed it. That was, God was to withdraw from the Temple in which He dwelt. This was for two reasons. God's holiness could not tolerate the heathen entering into the same place as He, and if they did, Nebuchadnezzar would have been slain like Uzzah in 2nd Samuel 6. God needed Nebuchadnezzar for further things concerning His glory, so before the Babylonian army could enter Jerusalem, God withdrew His glory from the Temple - His House. This utterly sad event takes up the first few Chapters.

This is a low point for such a great God. From this moment on, with His House and Testimony gone from earth, God is called, throughout the Book of Daniel, which encompasses the time in Babylon, the "God of heaven", but never the "God of earth". His House and Presence WERE GONE. This solemn matter is dealt with by Ezekiel. Ezekiel is divided roughly into FOUR sections;

1. The withdrawal of God and His glory from Solomon's Temple - His House
2. The accusations against Israel that brought about this tragic move
3. The Promises of Israel's future restoration
4. The Promise of a return to a greater glory for the House of God predicted in the latter Chapters

Chapters 37 to 39 give detailed prophecies of Israel's restoration and end with Armageddon at the end of Chapter 39. Then the visions make an abrupt change. They now concern them selves with God's New House. Immediately the Christian will OBJECT. Is not the Church the House of God? And does God live in a House made with hands? The answer is that God's original intention was that man would eat of the Tree of Life and become the HOUSE of God. And since God is a Spirit, He would dwell in the sanctity of the spirit of man. This He finally achieves in the Church. But ... in the process of recovering man, God did TWO things;

1. He dwelt WITH them to have His presence on earth, and for this a House of a special construction was needed
2. He caused the Second Person of the God-head to become a Man, and this Man, Jesus, was physical and needed a physical Dwelling


During His first sojourn on earth, this God-Man Jesus had nowhere to dwell (Matt.8:20; Lk.9:28). His rightful place as God would have been the Temple in Jerusalem, but He is driven from there under threat of death by the rulers of Israel. But at the end of the age, this God-Man will become the ordained, accepted and anointed King of the whole earth by military defeat of His enemies. The question is then, "WHERE WILL HE LIVE PHYSICALLY, AND OF WHAT TYPE WILL HIS HOUSE BE?

Ezekiel answers this. The House in which Emmanuel (God with us) will live must fulfill a number of qualifications.
· It must be in Jerusalem
· It must be a Palace fit for the greatest King ever to live
· It must be a House that reflects the accomplishments of this great King
· It must be a House that allows the correct service to such an Holy One
· It must be a House that everyone of every nation can come up to to pray, worship and have audience with their God.

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One thing remained to be done before Nebuchadnezzar entered Jerusalem and defiled and destroyed it. That was, God was to withdraw from the Temple in which He dwelt.

These are some of the saddest verses in the bible. I shed tears when I read them. God really hated to leave, but they forced Him out. Hmmm: not much different than the world today.

iamlamad said:

You may pull the wool over someone's eyes, but not mine. A "rod" was the USUAL took to measure back then. John did not have a "Stanley" tape measure!

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You thought God gave John a physical rod because he needed to measure a physical temple in a vision because there was no Stanley measure tape in John's day?!

LOL!

Okay, look...the book of Revelation absolutely is an unveiling. The very word [apokalupsis] from where we get Apocalypse (or Revelation) very literally means an "uncovering," as in "the disclosure of something," or something being "divulged." The book is very literally entitled a Revelation, and what is revealed is things that were before not unknown. For example, as we can see the meaning of the word demonstrated vividly in Romans 16:

Romans 16:25-26

• 
  
  
  • "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
  • But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"

The word Revelation there is the exact same word [apokalupsis], and illustrates a revealing of something that was kept secret before that time. Likewise, the book of Revelation (which is perplexing, cryptic, secretive, a mystery to most people) is a revealing of things that were not known before. It is being made known to the people of faith things that are, things that were, and things that would come in the future. The book is not called the "apocalypse" by accident, nor is it coincidental, it is God-inspired because the whole book is to manifest this mystery. These mysteries still remain unrevealed to those who do not study to show themselves approved (2nd Timothy 2:15). These mysteries such as "the mystery of the Kingdom," the "mystery of the Gentiles," the "mystery that we shall not all sleep," "mystery Babylon," etc., etc., are revealed to those who by the grace of God possess the Spirit of Truth to discern it. Yes, the book of Revelation is the revealing of mysteries, but cryptic because it is not revealed to all.

Now, surely you are not suggesting that the book of Revelation is as seen through a "Perfectly Clear" glass? On the contrary, it takes the Holy Spirit of God within man that he "search out" the proverbs to understand the dark sayings of God. "Dark sayings" is a phrase that speaks of the unclear nature of the parabolic or symbolic meanings in God's word. We see through this glass darkly, things are not all perfectly clear.

Do you realize that the Revelation is a book of symbolics, where God called John in a vision? it is NOT a physical ruler to measure physical size of the temple. Not at all! John was told to measure the temple, altar, and worshippers therein. God's Word is the rule of God! It is a yardstick against which the temple body and worshippers therein may be tested for trueness. Again, God is not telling John to measure a literal Temple, because there was no literal temple in the visions he was receiving, he was given a spiritual vision of the 'true' temple to illustrate that the children of God did not conform to it.

God did not give us that information just so we might "literally" build it again, but to "illustrate" and paint a spiritual picture to us that the Lord has "exact" dimensions for His Spiritual house, and anything that did NOT confirm (measure up) to the Lord's commandments or specifications, didn't belong in the temple. The measuring implies an exact calculation of the temple, and those who worship therein.

Like the rod of God's mouth (Isaiah 11:4) symbolizing His Word, the 'reed like unto a rod' that is given John to measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein, symbolize His Word. It is the rule or the yardstick against which all houses and doctrines may be tested for true-ness by God's people. It is a rod of measurement, correction, and exhortation.

Psalms 23:4

• 
  
  
  • "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."

His Rod is our comfort and our correction and is the reason we know the true dimensions from a false building. This first verse is an illustration of the measuring of a new testament temple building, with people inside being measured, because they are indeed sanctified a very part of it.

1st Peter 2:5

• 
  
  
  • "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

We in Christ are a part of this Holy Temple of God and are to be measured right along with it. For Christ has sanctified or made us Holy. How do we judge to see if we are a fit habitation for God? By this measuring reed. We only measure up if we have been sanctified by Christ. This is just as the shadow illustrated to Israel. The Temple, the altar, and those who worship therein were made Holy.

This has NOTHING To do with the so-called physical temple you false taught about.

TribulationSigns said:

You thought God gave John a physical rod because he needed to measure a physical temple in a vision because there was no Stanley measure tape in John's day?!

LOL!

Okay, look...the book of Revelation absolutely is an unveiling. The very word [apokalupsis] from where we get Apocalypse (or Revelation) very literally means an "uncovering," as in "the disclosure of something," or something being "divulged." The book is very literally entitled a Revelation, and what is revealed is things that were before not unknown. For example, as we can see the meaning of the word demonstrated vividly in Romans 16:

Romans 16:25-26

• 
  
  
  • "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
  • But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"

The word Revelation there is the exact same word [apokalupsis], and illustrates a revealing of something that was kept secret before that time. Likewise, the book of Revelation (which is perplexing, cryptic, secretive, a mystery to most people) is a revealing of things that were not known before. It is being made known to the people of faith things that are, things that were, and things that would come in the future. The book is not called the "apocalypse" by accident, nor is it coincidental, it is God-inspired because the whole book is to manifest this mystery. These mysteries still remain unrevealed to those who do not study to show themselves approved (2nd Timothy 2:15). These mysteries such as "the mystery of the Kingdom," the "mystery of the Gentiles," the "mystery that we shall not all sleep," "mystery Babylon," etc., etc., are revealed to those who by the grace of God possess the Spirit of Truth to discern it. Yes, the book of Revelation is the revealing of mysteries, but cryptic because it is not revealed to all.

Now, surely you are not suggesting that the book of Revelation is as seen through a "Perfectly Clear" glass? On the contrary, it takes the Holy Spirit of God within man that he "search out" the proverbs to understand the dark sayings of God. "Dark sayings" is a phrase that speaks of the unclear nature of the parabolic or symbolic meanings in God's word. We see through this glass darkly, things are not all perfectly clear.

Do you realize that the Revelation is a book of symbolics, where God called John in a vision? it is NOT a physical ruler to measure physical size of the temple. Not at all! John was told to measure the temple, altar, and worshippers therein. God's Word is the rule of God! It is a yardstick against which the temple body and worshippers therein may be tested for trueness. Again, God is not telling John to measure a literal Temple, because there was no literal temple in the visions he was receiving, he was given a spiritual vision of the 'true' temple to illustrate that the children of God did not conform to it.

God did not give us that information just so we might "literally" build it again, but to "illustrate" and paint a spiritual picture to us that the Lord has "exact" dimensions for His Spiritual house, and anything that did NOT confirm (measure up) to the Lord's commandments or specifications, didn't belong in the temple. The measuring implies an exact calculation of the temple, and those who worship therein.

Like the rod of God's mouth (Isaiah 11:4) symbolizing His Word, the 'reed like unto a rod' that is given John to measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein, symbolize His Word. It is the rule or the yardstick against which all houses and doctrines may be tested for true-ness by God's people. It is a rod of measurement, correction, and exhortation.

Psalms 23:4

• 
  
  
  • "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."

His Rod is our comfort and our correction and is the reason we know the true dimensions from a false building. This first verse is an illustration of the measuring of a new testament temple building, with people inside being measured, because they are indeed sanctified a very part of it.

1st Peter 2:5

• 
  
  
  • "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

We in Christ are a part of this Holy Temple of God and are to be measured right along with it. For Christ has sanctified or made us Holy. How do we judge to see if we are a fit habitation for God? By this measuring reed. We only measure up if we have been sanctified by Christ. This is just as the shadow illustrated to Israel. The Temple, the altar, and those who worship therein were made Holy.

This has NOTHING To do with the so-called physical temple you false taught about.

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You thought God gave John a physical rod because he needed to measure a physical temple I am guilty! I thought it because John WROTE IT! It seems you wish to imagine John did not mean it.

The very word [apokalupsis] from where we get Apocalypse (or Revelation)
True! It is a REVEALING, not a hiding: when it said John was given a reed to measure, God was not trying to hide something: it was a physical reed to measure a physical building. That is why it is wise not to symbolize something that makes perfect sense in its literal sense.

Do you realize that the Revelation is a book of symbolics, There are some things that we should take as symbolic, such as a 7 headed beast. You don't see one of those every day.

Again, God is not telling John to measure a literal Temple, Well, that may be what you say, but I don't believe you. There is not one hint that it should not be taken as a literal temple. It makes good sense in its literal sense.

There was a reed to measure Ezekiel's temple - so why not this temple. When this time comes, John will be coming from heaven to measure a temple on earth. At the time of the vision John was in heaven, I I agree, there is nothing that indicates he SAW the temple. But we know it is a real temple, for there are worshipers and an altar it. I have only ONE worshiper in my temple: ME.

he was given a spiritual vision of the 'true' temple to illustrate that the children of God did not conform to it. This really sounds like imagination, because John did not write it. Anyway, a Jewish temple will be a "true" temple for it will have worshipers in it.

We in Christ are a part of this Holy Temple of God This may be true, but it has nothing to do with a real and physical Jewish temple soon to be built.

This has NOTHING To do with the so-called physical temple Will you need salt when you eat crow?

iamlamad said:

You thought God gave John a physical rod because he needed to measure a physical temple I am guilty! I thought it because John WROTE IT! It seems you wish to imagine John did not mean it.

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Would you imagine that John wrote about a woman floating in space literally and had sun for clothing? We can only pray that's not the case since literalizing Revelation chapter 12 is decidedly inconsistent, nonsensical, absurd and dare I say ludicrous.

The very word [apokalupsis] from where we get Apocalypse (or Revelation)
True! It is a REVEALING, not a hiding: when it said John was given a reed to measure, God was not trying to hide something: it was a physical reed to measure a physical building. That is why it is wise not to symbolize something that makes perfect sense in its literal sense.

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Your catchphrase of "if the literal makes sense, seek no other sense" has often been proved to hinder to understand God's Word. For example, if the literal sense makes sense "but" the context, in harmony with the symbolism of other scriptures, and the imagery compared with all other instances of such visuals, imagery, or similes in scripture, and illustrates something should "not" be taken literally, we would be foolish to institute our own private rules of interpretation! Take a look at Revelation 13 for example,

Rev13:1-2
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Do you believe the beast is physical like a leopard, feet as a bear and mouth as a lion with seven heads, rising out of the Atlantic or Pacific? Either you going to believe it literally or are you going to try spiritually it to be about the antichrist out of Europe if "literal sense" does not work for you?

Do you realize that the Revelation is a book of symbolics,

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There are some things that we should take as symbolic, such as a 7 headed beast.

Click to expand...

So you think the book of Revelation is a salad bar that you can cherry-pick some verses to be literal and the rest to be symbolical to fit your flawed doctrine? It is a big mistake!

Again, God is not telling John to measure a literal Temple,

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Well, that may be what you say, but I don't believe you. There is not one hint that it should not be taken as a literal temple. It makes good sense in its literal sense.

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Not my problem. I only testify what Scripture says. It's just that you fail to compare Scripture with Scripture yourself and allow God to define what temple is spoken of!

And Here you go again, another catchphrase of "if the literal makes sense, seek no other sense" as an excuse not to check with Scripture.

he was given a spiritual vision of the 'true' temple to illustrate that the children of God did not conform to it.

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This really sounds like imagination, because John did not write it. Anyway, a Jewish temple will be a "true" temple for it will have worshipers in it.

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Imagination? Joke? Not likely! it is because you have a carnal mind or natural eyes. The Spirit to receive Spiritual things is not a joke, it is a gift.

1st Corinthians 2:12-15

• "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
• Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
• But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

No, it's not a joke, but it is without question "foolishness" to the natural man who has a spirit blinding him to think God speaks of literal Supernatural angelic beings in war with God in a literal heaven, of physical Kingdoms, temple, Nations, Stars, Moon under feet, Chains, Women, Scorpions, Israel, Bread, Stones, Temples, Swords, Builders, Jerusalem, Eating Flesh in crackers, Righteousness by Water Baptism, White Robes, Stars Falling to Earth, One Man of Sin, Respect of Genetic Jews, and yes, literal Dragons and Serpents we can recognize and cast out. The Spiritual is foolishness to you "because" these things are spiritually discerned. How then can the natural man discern them.

For example, one with a spirit of a devil, an evil spirit, an unclean spirit, a demon, cannot understand the Spiritual things (God Says) because that unholy spirit has blinded his eyes. It has rationalized God's truth away, as it did with Adam. We were all blunted, deaf and blind and speechless like the people Christ healed. Those healings He did illustrate we can all be given ears to hear, eyes to see and a tongue that is loosed so that we speak with wisdom and consistency. But that requires Christ cast out the evil spirit from us. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Mark 4:22-23

• "For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.
• If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."

Do you have ears to hear or are you blind to think that John is talking about physical temple in his vision? Good luck with dragon and woman in heaven, sea, and river into blood, frogs coming out of the mouth of dragon, beast, false prophet in the literal sense because its not what God talks about. You need to search it out in His Holy Word to find out what God really talked about!

Good night!

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iamlamad said:

I asked the Lord about Rev. 11, 1 & 2. He told me (I did not hear words) that the man of sin must first ARRIVE in Jerusalem if he is to enter the temple in Jerusalem. Verses 1-2 show his arrival in Jerusalem with his Gentile army. He will make Jerusalem his headquarters for 42 months, so the Gentiles STAY: and trample the city for 42 months. I can't prove this is about the man of sin, but neither can anyone prove it is not. It makes good sense to me. How could the man of sin enter the temple in Jerusalem unless he first GETS to Jerusalem.

Some think the new Jewish temple will sit right beside the Muslim temple, so the courtyard would be Muslim ground. I don't know about that. What I am convinced of is that Revelation is about the FUTURE 70th week that will end this age.

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You seem to be presenting Futurism theology that I do not subscribe to.

TribulationSigns said:

Would you imagine that John wrote about a woman floating in space literally and had sun for clothing? We can only pray that's not the case since literalizing Revelation chapter 12 is decidedly inconsistent, nonsensical, absurd and dare I say ludicrous.



A-ha. Your catchphrase of "if the literal makes sense, seek no other sense" crap has caused spiritual blindness to God Holy Scripture.

Rev13:1-2
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Do you believe the beast is physical like a leopard, feet as a bear and mouth as a lion with seven heads, rising out of the Atlantic or Pacific? Either you going to believe it literally or are you going to try spiritually it to be about the antichrist out of Europe if literal sense does not work for you?



So you think the book of Revealtion is a salad bar that you will cherry pick some verses to be literal and the rest to be symbolically to fit your flawed doctrine? It is a big mistake!



Not my problem. I only testify what Scripture says. It's just that you fail to compare Scripture with Scripture yourself and allow God to define what temple is spoken of!

And Here you go again, another catchphrase of "if the literal makes sense, seek no other sense" as an excuse not to check with Scripture.



Imagination? Joke? Not likely! it is because you have a carnal mind or natural eyes. The Spirit to receive Spiritual things is not a joke, it is a gift.

1st Corinthians 2:12-15

• "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
• Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
• But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

No, it's not a joke, but it is without question "foolishness" to the natural man who has a spirit blinding him to think God speaks of literal Supernatural angelic beings in war with God in a literal heaven, of physical Kingdoms, temple, Nations, Stars, Moon under feet, Chains, Women, Scorpions, Israel, Bread, Stones, Temples, Swords, Builders, Jerusalem, Eating Flesh in crackers, Righteousness by Water Baptism, White Robes, Stars Falling to Earth, One Man of Sin, Respect of Genetic Jews, and yes, literal Dragons and Serpents we can recognize and cast out. The Spiritual is foolishness to you "because" these things are spiritually discerned. How then can the natural man discern them.

For example, one with a spirit of a devil, an evil spirit, an unclean spirit, a demon, cannot understand the Spiritual things (God Says) because that unholy spirit has blinded his eyes. It has rationalized God's truth away, as it did with Adam. We were all blunted, deaf and blind and speechless like the people Christ healed. Those healings He did illustrate we can all be given ears to hear, eyes to see and a tongue that is loosed so that we speak with wisdom and consistency. But that requires Christ cast out the evil spirit from us. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Mark 4:22-23

• "For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.
• If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."

Do you have ears to hear or are you blind to think that John is talking about physical temple in his vision? Good luck with dragon and woman in heaven, sea, and river into blood, frogs coming out of the mouth of dragon, beast, false prophet in the literal sense because its not what God talks about. You need to search it out in His Holy Word to find out what God really talked about!

Good night!

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The constellations have been in the sky since before Adam. Perhaps if someone read John and knew nothing of Virgo and Draco - no, not even then: no one would think a woman would be clothed with the sun: she would become toast. I doubt anyone could imagine a woman standing on the moon either. They would just have to wonder what John was talking about. However, since we KNOW of Virgo and Draco the Dragon, we can take was was written literally and understand it.

"if the literal makes sense, seek no other sense" crap has caused spiritual blindness to God Holy Scripture. No, the truth is, this phrase has kept many people from believing nonsense. As I have said before, Beasts don't usually have seven heads, so common sense would tell most readers that the Beast with seven heads must be taken symbolically. Then when John explains that 5 of the heads are kings that have come and gone in history, we gain a little understanding of the symbol.

And after all that, YES, there is coming a REAL temple. DON'T DOUBT IT! Will you need salt when you eat crow? ;-)

TribulationSigns said:

No doubt that you are wrong. You got the wrong temple. It's New Testament congrgation of Israel that Christ confirmed a covenant with. Not antichrist nor, physical temple in nation Israel!



Of course not. It's Christ that He use the Gentiles to build his Temple... through the Church! Selah! Didn't you read Scripture and receive it?

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

That is your holy temple right here "IF" you are chosen Elect of God to receive this truth. It is a spiritual temple that people in Christ coming and building the temple since the Cross! Not your pipe dream of the physical temple in Israel in the future. Sorry!

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Great stuff TS! Let us not forget 1 Peter 2: 4-11, as Peter affirms Paul and calls believers "LIVING STONES"!!!

MAGNIFICENT!!!

ebedmelech said:

Great stuff TS! Let us not forget 1 Peter 2: 4-11, as Peter affirms Paul and calls believers "LIVING STONES"!!!

MAGNIFICENT!!!

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Exactly! I will add some more...

Not only the stones, but also the stars.

Revelation 12:1-4 KJV
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The heaven represents the kingdom of heaven where the congregation (woman) dwells. The woman represented the Old Testament Congregation at that time before Christ was born. Her stars represetns her messengers, the Jews, whether they are choosen Elect and unsaved believers. Satan, the red dragon, struck down third part of the stars signifies Satan was able to deceived some of the messengers in Christ's day.

Anyway, to God, His people are seen as the stars and the stones - the builders of the congregation in which Christ's temple of his body represents. When Christ's disciples declared...

Matthew 24:1-2 KJV
[1] And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
[2] And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The disciples thought Christ was talking about the physical stones of the temple, but that was not what Christ had in mind! He was talking about HIS CONGREGATION with the unfaithful Jews being the stone falling! The congregation fell because...

John 2:18-21 KJV
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus told the Jews to destroy THIS TEMPLE, but the Jews thought He was talking about the physical temple. But Jesus specifically told them (Jews) to destroy the temple and they did. And He also said that he would raise the temple in three days. It did happen! Not a physical temple, but the temple of his body which represents HIS CONGREGATION. Christ's temple of his BODY was the Old Testament Congregation that fell along with His death at the Cross. That is the stones falling...Consider wisely:

Matthew 21:42-45 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

The builders were the Jews. Because of their rejection against Messiah the Prince. God took their Kingdom Representative from Old Testament Congregation when they cut off Messiah the Prince and IN THREE DAYS, gave it to the very temple that Christ rebuild which is now the New Testament Congregation! It is Christ's body, the New Testament congregation, that He has confirmed a covenant with!

Daniel 9:26-27 KJV
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Verse 26 is about the fall and desolation of Old Testament Congregation when Christ was cut off. Verse 27 is about the BIRTH and FALL of New Testament Congregation that lasted from the Cross to the Consummation. You see, the "woman" as the congregation of Israel just transitioned from Old Testament (Jews) to New Testament (Gentiles) at the Cross and continue to minister in the whole world for God until the end. This has NOTHING to do with the physical destruction of Jewish Temple in 70AD or the rebuilding of a third temple in the future. God is not interested in physical things as Christ is now a chief cornerstone of his spiritual temple.

So prior to Christ's coming, he said that he would judge the unfaithful new testament congregation as he did with the Old Testament Congregation at the Cross. It is spiritual discernment is why many carnal Christians cannot tell if their church is under judgment SPIRITUALLY, the same way the Jews who thought Christ was talking about the fall of the PHYSICAL temple. Today, the church still stands, but they are spiritually desolated because of apostasy going on in there. You are looking at wrong Israel in the Middle East while your church is being judged for unfaithfulness. Only those with the spirit of Christ can see "abomination of desolation" standing in the holy place (church on this side of the Cross). Many won't see it because they are deceived by the false prophet and christ saying "Don't worry, we have Christ in our wonderful churches. We are fine. The prophecies are all about national Israel over there in the Middle East, and we will be raptured out before all terrible things will happen."

Beware!

TribulationSigns said:

Exactly! I will add some more...

Not only the stones, but also the stars.

Revelation 12:1-4 KJV
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The heaven represents the kingdom of heaven where the congregation (woman) dwells. The woman represented the Old Testament Congregation at that time before Christ was born. Her stars represetns her messengers, the Jews, whether they are choosen Elect and unsaved believers. Satan, the red dragon, struck down third part of the stars signifies Satan was able to deceived some of the messengers in Christ's day.

Anyway, to God, His people are seen as the stars and the stones - the builders of the congregation in which Christ's temple of his body represents. When Christ's disciples declared...

Matthew 24:1-2 KJV
[1] And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
[2] And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The disciples thought Christ was talking about the physical stones of the temple, but that was not what Christ had in mind! He was talking about HIS CONGREGATION with the unfaithful Jews being the stone falling! The congregation fell because...

John 2:18-21 KJV
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus told the Jews to destroy THIS TEMPLE, but the Jews thought He was talking about the physical temple. But Jesus specifically told them (Jews) to destroy the temple and they did. And He also said that he would raise the temple in three days. It did happen! Not a physical temple, but the temple of his body which represents HIS CONGREGATION. Christ's temple of his BODY was the Old Testament Congregation that fell along with His death at the Cross. That is the stones falling...Consider wisely:

Matthew 21:42-45 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

The builders were the Jews. Because of their rejection against Messiah the Prince. God took their Kingdom Representative from Old Testament Congregation when they cut off Messiah the Prince and IN THREE DAYS, gave it to the very temple that Christ rebuild which is now the New Testament Congregation! It is Christ's body, the New Testament congregation, that He has confirmed a covenant with!

Daniel 9:26-27 KJV
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Verse 26 is about the fall and desolation of Old Testament Congregation when Christ was cut off. Verse 27 is about the BIRTH and FALL of New Testament Congregation that lasted from the Cross to the Consummation. You see, the "woman" as the congregation of Israel just transitioned from Old Testament (Jews) to New Testament (Gentiles) at the Cross and continue to minister in the whole world for God until the end. This has NOTHING to do with the physical destruction of Jewish Temple in 70AD or the rebuilding of a third temple in the future. God is not interested in physical things as Christ is now a chief cornerstone of his spiritual temple.

So prior to Christ's coming, he said that he would judge the unfaithful new testament congregation as he did with the Old Testament Congregation at the Cross. It is spiritual discernment is why many carnal Christians cannot tell if their church is under judgment SPIRITUALLY, the same way the Jews who thought Christ was talking about the fall of the PHYSICAL temple. Today, the church still stands, but they are spiritually desolated because of apostasy going on in there. You are looking at wrong Israel in the Middle East while your church is being judged for unfaithfulness. Only those with the spirit of Christ can see "abomination of desolation" standing in the holy place (church on this side of the Cross). Many won't see it because they are deceived by the false prophet and christ saying "Don't worry, we have Christ in our wonderful churches. We are fine. The prophecies are all about national Israel over there in the Middle East, and we will be raptured out before all terrible things will happen."

Beware!

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I have always said, if you wish to remain behind and "tribulate" - go for it! I suspect, about 5 minutes into it, you will be banging your head against a wall.

iamlamad said:

I have always said, if you wish to remain behind and "tribulate" - go for it! I suspect, about 5 minutes into it, you will be banging your head against a wall.

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I can see why you were making a pathetic response like this against my testimony and wisdom:

Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

TribulationSigns said:

We are fine. The prophecies are all about national Israel over there in the Middle East, and we will be raptured out before all terrible things will happen."

Click to expand...

In for a nasty shock, when the Lord takes action and you have to really show how much you trust the Lord for your protection!
Surviving the Day:
1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 About dates and times, my friends, there is no need for me to write to you, for you know perfectly well that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

The Day that Paul is talking about here cannot be the same Day as he mentions in 1 Thess. 4:13-18, or later in 2 Thess. 1-8 where he says that the Day Jesus Returns will not come until the Anti-Christ is revealed and enthrones himself in the Temple. We read in Rev. 13:5 that the Anti-Christ is allowed to continue for 42 months, then Jesus will Return and chain him up for 1000 years. This time period is confirmed by Daniel 12:7 and again in Rev. 12:6 as 1260 days. [The three and a half year Great Tribulation]

Therefore those who are alive when the Anti-Christ declares himself to be God in the new Temple, can know exactly how long it will be before Jesus will Return. That glorious event should not be unexpected for them.

So what Day is Paul talking about in 1 Thess. 5:1:2? It is NOT the Return of Jesus on the Great Day of the Sovereign Lord, Rev. 16:14 and as described in Zechariah 14:3-5, Matthew 24:30, or Rev. 19:11-14, but it IS the terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath – a Day that will come unexpectedly. Isaiah 29:5-6 …suddenly, in an instant punishment will come from the Lord, with a great noise, storms, earthquakes and a devouring fire. Psalm 73:19, Jer. 4:20, Psalm 6:10, Psalms 11:4-6

1 Thess.5:3 While they are saying: Peace and safety, then sudden destruction will come upon them and there will be no escape. Ezekiel 7:16, Romans 2:3

It seems that just before this terrible Day, there may be an agreement of some kind in the Middle East, between Israel and the Islamists. The world will breathe a sigh of relief, but as we are told in Psalm 144:11…their every word is worthless, every oath is false. They will simply use that time of lessened vigilance to prepare their attack. The moment of attack is the trigger for the Lord to arise and instigate His judgement/punishment by fire, a massive CME sunstrike. Isaiah 30:26, 2 Peter 3:7

2 Thess. 1:8 In flaming fire, the Lord Jesus will mete out punishment to all those who refuse to acknowledge their Creator and do not obey Him. Hebrews 10:27

1 Thess. 5:4-9 But you, brothers, are not in darkness, that this Day should surprise you like a thief. You are all children of the light, we do not belong in the darkness. So then let us keep sober and alert, armed with the breastplate of faith and love, and with the hope of salvation as a helmet. God has not destined us to suffer His wrath, but for the full attainment of salvation through our Lord, Jesus Christ. Rev. 3:10

The punishment of the nations, the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal - Rev 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-21, Jer. 23:19, Ezekiel 30:2-5, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 and many other vivid prophecies, that will literally be fulfilled on that Day of disaster for all the world. Everyone will be affected, Luke 21:35, and huge numbers of people will die. Isaiah 66:16, Jer. 9:22, Matthew 24:40. It will be God’s second ‘reset of civilization’, an event similar in scope to the flood in Noah’s day. At that time, only Noah knew what was going to happen, now only just a very few understand the truth, as Daniel 12:10 says. Mathew 24:37-39

We, who believe in God, trust Jesus for our salvation and rely on His protection, have the promise of 1 Thess. 5:9 that we will not suffer His wrath. Many prophesies say how the Lord will protect His own people during His wrath against the wicked peoples. Isa. 43:2, Psalm 31:23-24, Jer. 17:7-8, Daniel 12:1

keras said:

The Day that Paul is talking about here cannot be the same Day as he mentions in 1 Thess. 4:13-18, or later in 2 Thess. 1-8 where he says that the Day Jesus Returns will not come until the Anti-Christ is revealed and enthrones himself in the Temple.

Click to expand...

Ahem. You need to read this study about the antichrist.

We read in Rev. 13:5 that the Anti-Christ is allowed to continue for 42 months, then Jesus will Return and chain him up for 1000 years. This time period is confirmed by Daniel 12:7 and again in Rev. 12:6 as 1260 days. [The three and a half year Great Tribulation]

Click to expand...

Yeah yeah, typical literal interpretation from Pre-tribber.

Therefore those who are alive when the Anti-Christ declares himself to be God in the new Temple, can know exactly how long it will be before Jesus will Return. That glorious event should not be unexpected for them.

Click to expand...

Rolling eyes.

So what Day is Paul talking about in 1 Thess. 5:1:2? It is NOT the Return of Jesus on the Great Day of the Sovereign Lord, Rev. 16:14 and as described in Zechariah 14:3-5, Matthew 24:30, or Rev. 19:11-14, but it IS the terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath – a Day that will come unexpectedly. Isaiah 29:5-6 …suddenly, in an instant punishment will come from the Lord, with a great noise, storms, earthquakes and a devouring fire. Psalm 73:19, Jer. 4:20, Psalm 6:10, Psalms 11:4-6

Click to expand...

You are shooting with a shatter gun while misapplying Scriptures from all over.

1 Thess.5:3 While they are saying: Peace and safety, then sudden destruction will come upon them and there will be no escape. Ezekiel 7:16, Romans 2:3

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Tell me, what peace and safety did God talked about here? If you think it has to do with "world peace" or your fantasy "peace treaty" in Middle East, you are mistaken!

Revelation 6:3-4 KJV
[3] And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
[4] And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

The white horse is not antichrist as you believe! This white horse is the strength of Christ's warefare, whereupon he rides when he goes to conquer and subdue new converts and translate them into his kingdom through the Church. he caomes in the strength of His majesty, truth, meekness, and righteousness, which are made known in the preaching of His Gospel which is PEACE toward men! he goes forth tearing down devil strongholds, that the gates of hell cannot stand or prevent him from freeing prisoners (sinners). Christ on white horse, works through Christians to save people.

After this sealing of His people is finished, at the end of Church age, Revelation 7:1-4 the red horse come. This red horseman was going forth to battle in the strength of Satan which was given power to TAKE THAT PEACE from the earth so that no more men will be able to find salvation anymore. In other words, salvation ended. Please notice that God has given power and a great sword to Satan to do his purpose to take salvation from the Earth. This is what his deceiving the nations is all about in Revelation 20.

But of course, you prefer literally battle with guns and missiles anyway!

It seems that just before this terrible Day, there may be an agreement of some kind in the Middle East, between Israel and the Islamists. The world will breathe a sigh of relief, but as we are told in Psalm 144:11…their every word is worthless, every oath is false. They will simply use that time of lessened vigilance to prepare their attack. The moment of attack is the trigger for the Lord to arise and instigate His judgement/punishment by fire, a massive CME sunstrike. Isaiah 30:26, 2 Peter 3:7

Click to expand...

Massive CME sunstrike? Sigh... I get it. Astronomy Eschatology on top of Newspaper Eschatology. Big mistake.

1 Thess. 5:4-9 But you, brothers, are not in darkness, that this Day should surprise you like a thief. You are all children of the light, we do not belong in the darkness. So then let us keep sober and alert, armed with the breastplate of faith and love, and with the hope of salvation as a helmet. God has not destined us to suffer His wrath, but for the full attainment of salvation through our Lord, Jesus Christ. Rev. 3:10

Click to expand...

Who are God's Elect are fighting against? Troops with guns and missiles or an army of men coming with spirit of antichrist against God's congregation?

The punishment of the nations, the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal - Rev 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-21, Jer. 23:19, Ezekiel 30:2-5, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 and many other vivid prophecies, that will literally be fulfilled on that Day of disaster for all the world. Everyone will be affected, Luke 21:35, and huge numbers of people will die. Isaiah 66:16, Jer. 9:22, Matthew 24:40. It will be God’s second ‘reset of civilization’, an event similar in scope to the flood in Noah’s day. At that time, only Noah knew what was going to happen, now only just a very few understand the truth, as Daniel 12:10 says. Mathew 24:37-39

Click to expand...

Again, you are looking at the sixth seal all wrong. It has nothing to do with literal fulfillment or physical disasters in the world. You are watching too much news where you allow it to be an interpreter of God's prophecies. Another big mistake!

We, who believe in God, trust Jesus for our salvation and rely on His protection, have the promise of 1 Thess. 5:9 that we will not suffer His wrath. Many prophesies say how the Lord will protect His own people during His wrath against the wicked peoples. Isa. 43:2, Psalm 31:23-24, Jer. 17:7-8, Daniel 12:1

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First, God will only pour His Wrath upon HIS PEOPLE in His unfaithful congregation FIRST before Christ returns.

1 Peter 4:17 KJV
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The judgment of the wicked world will take place at the Second Coming. Not before.

As I said, you got wrong Israel, wrong antichrist, wrong peace and safety, wrong signs to begin with. Turn off the JPost News and start the study with your Scripture and allow Scripture to be its interpreter. Not forcing Scripture to talk about literal fulfillment like you are doing!

These seven year periods are three paradigms.

1. 2300 day (evening and morning meaning literal days) of Daniel 8:14. (Greek) This was fulfilled in 167 BC to 160 BC, the first Jewish revolt. Antiochus Epiphanes IV, a type of the future Antichrist, defiled the temple by sacrificing a pig on the Jewish altar before 164 when he died, defiling it. Jacob Maccabees cleansed the temple

2. Daniel 9:24-27, 7 year Jewish revolt when the second Jewish revolt happened in Jerusalem from 66 AD to 73 AD, where in the middle (70 AD) the temple was destroyed.

3. The future 7 year Great Tribulation is when the true Antichrist will be revealed.

TribulationSigns said:

As I said, you got wrong Israel, wrong antichrist, wrong peace and safety, wrong signs to begin with. Turn off the JPost News and start the study with your Scripture and allow Scripture to be its interpreter. Not forcing Scripture to talk about literal fulfillment like you are doing!

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Your opinionated post is just a rant, a rude attack as we see you do against anyone who challenges your beliefs. This is a Christian forum.

I reject the idea that the Prophetic Word should not be taken literally.
Was the Flood literal, was Jesus birthplace and His riding on a donkey literally fulfilled?
What motivates you to oppose a literal fulfillment of end times events?

keras said:

Your opinionated post is just a rant, a rude attack as we see you do against anyone who challenges your beliefs. This is a Christian forum.

I reject the idea that the Prophetic Word should not be taken literally.
Was the Flood literal, was Jesus birthplace and His riding on a donkey literally fulfilled?
What motivates you to oppose a literal fulfillment of end times events?

Click to expand...

There isn't one, but it has a duel/triple meaning, as does the little horns in Daniel 7 and 8 are different, but all represent the future Antichrist.

Read my post #1413

keras said:

Your opinionated post is just a rant, a rude attack as we see you do against anyone who challenges your beliefs. This is a Christian forum.

Click to expand...

I provided a link to biblical study. I provided Scripture to explain my position. So you just got offended by my "rude attack" on your doctrine when you were not able to gainsay or refute the link/Scripture I provided. Boo-hoo.

I reject the idea that the Prophetic Word should not be taken literally.

Click to expand...

Says you, a natural man.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 KJV
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Say, interpreting the sun in the book of Revelation or elsewhere into a massive CME sunstrike? Please!

Was the Flood literal

Click to expand...

Well, of course. There was no call for spiritual understanding about it.

was Jesus birthplace and His riding on a donkey literally fulfilled?

Click to expand...

Wow, I did not know that. It has been prophesied in the Old Testament. Nothing spiritual about it, right? Duh.

What motivates you to oppose a literal fulfillment of end times events?

Click to expand...

If I am openly against or vigorously as opposed to "some" Church Tradition, it is when that tradition is of men and cannot be justified by the Bible. Unlike many, I don't place Church tradition upon a pedestal, because I have God's word already up there, and it doesn't share rule (Matthew 15:3). You see, since God is not speaking to us today verbally from the smoke on the mountain, or out of the burning Bush, or out of the mouth of a donkey, the scriptures alone (Sola Scriptura) are our direct authoritative word for interpretation from God. In other words, God's very own word is the only voice than can be the supreme interpreter of God's own word. Because who better to get the interpretation from, than "the Author!" Sadly, that is a principle which most of the Church of our day seems oblivious to.

Genesis 40:8

• "And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."

Yes, Interpretations belong to God. It's not, "let me get my book of interpretations by hal Lindsey," It's not "let me get my book of interpretations by Jospheus or Jerusalem Post"," or "let me inquire of the stars or spewing sun what something means," and it's not, "let me see how the great Church men of renowned interpret this verse," but Interpretations belong to God. And the immutable law is, "if it didn't come from God's word, then it's not God's interpretation."

TribulationSigns said:

I can see why you were making a pathetic response like this against my testimony and wisdom:

Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Click to expand...

Your "wisdom?"

It really will be everyone's individual choice whether they are caught up or whether they are left behind. It seems you are relating "left behind" with "wisdom." That will change.

iamlamad said:

Your "wisdom?"

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You don't know what wisdom I have in me? LOL. Obviously you did not read or listen very well. Go and read the verse I quoted again. You clearly cannot gainsay or resist therefore without Christ's wisdom, you will be left behind. Repent!

ebedmelech said:

Great stuff TS! Let us not forget 1 Peter 2: 4-11, as Peter affirms Paul and calls believers "LIVING STONES"!!!

MAGNIFICENT!!!

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You had the opportunity to correct that bloke and you missed it. The New and Old covenant has only been half confirmed, (because the messiah was cut off in the middle of the confirming) because there is still half a week to go.

Jesus's presence and all He did including making the new covenant with the lost sheep of Israel was the confirming in part the Old Covenant, making the new covenant a subset of the old covenant.

The perceived gap is the 2300 years Daniel mentions; the duration between the first and second white horse in Rev,; the duration between his first and second coming.


Daniel 8:13-14 (NKJV)
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, "How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled under foot?"
14 And he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."

TribulationSigns said:

I provided a link to biblical study. I provided Scripture to explain my position. So you just got offended by my "rude attack" on your doctrine when you were not able to gainsay or refute the link/Scripture I provided. Boo-hoo.



Says you, a natural man.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 KJV
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Say, interpreting the sun in the book of Revelation or elsewhere into a massive CME sunstrike? Please!



Well, of course. There was no call for spiritual understanding about it.



Wow, I did not know that. It has been prophesied in the Old Testament. Nothing spiritual about it, right? Duh.



If I am openly against or vigorously as opposed to "some" Church Tradition, it is when that tradition is of men and cannot be justified by the Bible. Unlike many, I don't place Church tradition upon a pedestal, because I have God's word already up there, and it doesn't share rule (Matthew 15:3). You see, since God is not speaking to us today verbally from the smoke on the mountain, or out of the burning Bush, or out of the mouth of a donkey, the scriptures alone (Sola Scriptura) are our direct authoritative word for interpretation from God. In other words, God's very own word is the only voice than can be the supreme interpreter of God's own word. Because who better to get the interpretation from, than "the Author!" Sadly, that is a principle which most of the Church of our day seems oblivious to.

Genesis 40:8

• "And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."

Yes, Interpretations belong to God. It's not, "let me get my book of interpretations by hal Lindsey," It's not "let me get my book of interpretations by Jospheus or Jerusalem Post"," or "let me inquire of the stars or spewing sun what something means," and it's not, "let me see how the great Church men of renowned interpret this verse," but Interpretations belong to God. And the immutable law is, "if it didn't come from God's word, then it's not God's interpretation."

Click to expand...

What you MISSED: under the New Covenant, Christ said He would build His church by the ROCK of revealed knowledge. According to your above rant, you must tear out most of what Paul wrote, for he got it from revelation knowledge.

Most of what John wrote in Revelation was not previously written in the Old Testament: He got it via a vision. Better tear that out too.