Theistic Evolution makes Judgment and Sin feel distant and less real

Cis.jd said:

Of course, if you believe the entire creation literal, how else are you going to handle questions about factual things such as time zones other than refusing to understand it?

You just don't have an answer for it.

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The First Day

3And God said, “Let there be light,”a and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.”

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day


Honestly, Im failing to see your problem.

Cis.jd said:

Because the Bible is not a book of science, He did not inspire others to reveal him not evolution, the 9 planets, physics, gravity, etc. As man grew in knowledge we then saw the greater brilliance of God as a creator and as a designer which is why we accept the facts about evolution, because we don't see it as contradicting creation but just revealing more about how much of a master designer God is.

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I love it when people call evolution a fact. Especially when Christians do....as now they can't explain the fall.

Cis.jd said:

Because the Bible is not a book of science, He did not inspire others to reveal him not evolution, the 9 planets, physics, gravity, etc. As man grew in knowledge we then saw the greater brilliance of God as a creator and as a designer which is why we accept the facts about evolution, because we don't see it as contradicting creation but just revealing more about how much of a master designer God is.

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And yet....he didn't day that's how it happened. Why didn' t he if it happened the way you say?

Cis.jd said:

Quoting isn't just for referencing a historical fact but also to get a point across. People quote from movies, books, etc as examples to others.. it's not about the story being true, but the message behind it that is important.

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But we're talking about a VERY IMPORTANT thing as in how and why did a sin nature pass on down from generation to generation. Gen 1-2-3 reveal the WHY of salvation that it's necessary.

Bobber said:

And yet....he didn't day that's how it happened. Why didn' t he if it happened the way you say?

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I wonder how long it will take for evolution to accomplish this change...

1 Cor 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Bobber said:

But we're talking about a VERY IMPORTANT thing as in how and why did a sin nature pass on down from generation to generation. Gen 1-2-3 reveal the WHY of salvation that it's necessary.

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Theo-Evos have no answer for the sin nature. I've been asking that question for years...and the question is always dodged.

Jipsah said:

I haven't found that to be the case. I can't speak for everyone, of course. but I believe in evolution because there is evidence for it. I have no problem with believing in the supernatural at all, but I see no reason to disbelieve in the natural, either. God is obvipously not restricted in His use of either.

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Of course he's not restricted in the use of either. And if he didn't reveal how things happened we can be open to various possibilities. BUT....he told us how it took place. You talked about that Jesus turned the water into wine. True he did. Now if scripture stated Jesus provided wine we could be open to a possibility that he sent disciples out to buy some. We can't restrict the possibility. BUT....it's revealed he did it a DIFFERENT WAY and the description is clear HOW HE DID IT. Why isn't it also clear from Gen 1 how he did it?

The Barbarian said:

If God used atoms to make the world, why didn't He say so? Hint: Is the Bible a science text or is it about God and man and our relationship?

When you figure that out, you'll know the answers to both of those.

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Sorry Barbarian but your answer doesn't cut it. I agree with you the Bible doesn't have as it prime purpose by no means to be a science book.....but it does tell us how things came about at least by observation. No it doesn't reveal God created atoms but it gives one the clear picture of how things DID come about during those 7 days periods. Thus atoms would have been a part of that. It's also CLEAR how MAN came about....the scripture describes actual, precise events. If our decedent Adam did A.....then sin nature has become passed down because of it then that just can't become an imaginary concept.....if it's an imaginary fictional concept then there's no absolute need to apply the cure or to recognize what we are because of Adam.

Cis.jd said:

God did not tell you anything because if he did it would not be refuted by evidence. It's just so you, using God to be on the side of your views.

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Evidence? Who's evidence. What about the evidence from scripture which states mankind can become easily seduced and deceived. 2 Tim 3:13

Bobber said:

Evidence? Who's evidence. What about the evidence from scripture which states mankind can become easily seduced and deceived. 2 Tim 3:13

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yes, they can. One sign of being deceived is when you already have evidence and don't want to accept it as true and convince yourself that it is your views that align to what God says.

"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals... Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking non-sense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn."
- St Augustine

Bobber said:

But we're talking about a VERY IMPORTANT thing as in how and why did a sin nature pass on down from generation to generation. Gen 1-2-3 reveal the WHY of salvation that it's necessary.

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I understand that is the initial topic, i don't understand why it conflicts with evolution. You can think of it like hereditary in where certain diseases or ailments (and even talents) that get passed down.

-57 said:

The First Day

3And God said, “Let there be light,”a and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.”

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day


Honestly, Im failing to see your problem.

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The first day for who though? Are earth is a sphere, if it's 8am July 14 in China, it's 8pm July 13 in NYC. So how does the earth have an exact first day especially since it's based on the morning and evening?

-57 said:

I love it when people call evolution a fact. Especially when Christians do....as now they can't explain the fall.

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Get over it man. You have dodged several points and did nothing but post smokescreens to avoid tackling them, it is you who has never bothered to explain. Not us. You are one of those christians, who would likely turn others away from the Word of God the impression of it teaching nonsense and factual errors.

Cis.jd said:

But we have nothing talking about the planets or anything other than the sun, moon, and earth so this is just a hunch of no biblical detail or proof.

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Well we have this:

Genesis 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

So he made them sometime within the first six days of the start of the space/time continuum.

Planets do count as the host of heaven.

Cis.jd said:

The first day for who though? Are earth is a sphere, if it's 8am July 14 in China, it's 8pm July 13 in NYC. So how does the earth have an exact first day especially since it's based on the morning and evening?

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It's rotating..last time I checked.

Your argument still doesn't make any sense. I'm thinking you ought to abandon it.

Cis.jd said:

Get over it man. You have dodged several points and did nothing but post smokescreens to avoid tackling them, it is you who has never bothered to explain. Not us. You are one of those christians, who would likely turn others away from the Word of God the impression of it teaching nonsense and factual errors.

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...as I said, you can't explain the fall. What happened, did God wave His hand over the earth and all the people began to sin at once? Was there a sin mutation???? What happened?

If God used atoms to make the world, why didn't He say so? Hint: Is the Bible a science text or is it about God and man and our relationship?

When you figure that out, you'll know the answers to both of those.

Bobber said:

Sorry Barbarian but your answer doesn't cut it.

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It does for anyone willing to think about it without preconceptions.

I agree with you the Bible doesn't have as it prime purpose by no means to be a science book.....but it does tell us how things came about at least by observation.

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No. It says things were created, but doesn't say how, other than vague descriptions like the earth bringing forth living things.

No it doesn't reveal God created atoms but it gives one the clear picture of how things DID come about during those 7 days periods.

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The text tells you that it's not literal six days. Logically, it's absurd to imagine mornings and evenings before there was a sun to have them. This was noticed even by ancient Christians long before anyone knew any of the science behind the formation of the earth and living things.

Thus atoms would have been a part of that.

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Just like evolution would have been a part of that. The difference is, atoms don't scare creationists.

It's also CLEAR how MAN came about....

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How his soul came about is quite clear, but again, his body came from the earth, without details given.

the scripture describes actual, precise events.

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Of course. It's perfectly reasonable to have figurative accounts of real events and real people.

You seem to have forgotten that. We can have a real Adam, and a real fall, and still have God give us a figurative account about it.

Bobber said:

Did God tell you that or did Man?

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Did God or man tell me the Creed? Yes.

The Creed is the very truth of God as confessed and received in His holy Church which is comprised of human persons.

-CryptoLutheran

-57 said:

No it doesn't.

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Of course it does, and you know very well that it does. You just don't believe that when Jesus says "This is My body" that He meant it literally.

But you are more than willing to refuse to take Jesus literally when He tells you that the bread and wine of His Supper is His very flesh and blood broken and shed for you because it doesn't conform to your private theology. Even as you sit here and want to condemn me and millions of other Christians for not believing the creation week is literal.

That is hypocrisy.

-CryptoLutheran

nolidad said:

Well we have this:

Genesis 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

So he made them sometime within the first six days of the start of the space/time continuum.

Planets do count as the host of heaven.

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"Heavens" was also a universal term back then that people in those days described the sky, because they all had no concept of anything surpassing the sky.

You are also inserting theories based on what science has discovered (planets) just like we are doing with evolution.