Is God real?

GodsGrace101 · Jul 13, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
I have two personal reasons on the first question.

1) Is my personal utility argument. I spent some time as an agnostic, and a do it yourself Taoist. I have been able to observe myself in different situations etc. and well after going through life and experimenting I find that I am better off as a Christian. This is especially true when it comes to bringing out "the best part of me" as far as an Ego Ideal... I tend to do better as a Christian, I feel the need to go the extra mile etc. that I wouldn't normally have.

2) On the Scientific end of things, I have been very influenced by Christian Apologist / Astro-Physicist Hugh Ross. In many ways I believe that Cosmos itself testifies of God... and the God of the Bible in particular.

Hugh Ross is on the spectrum (autism).
I very much admire and respect him.
I don't listen to him very much, or, really, anyone on the tube.

But, could I ask you what a Taoist believes? My niece in CA is one and I just can't understand it.

Just in 25 words or less.
Thanks.

GodsGrace101 · Jul 13, 2020

Victor in Christ said:
look at the avatar. He's pulling the bow, ready to send those fiery darts. Lift the shield of faith.

LOL
Didn't even notice.
And he never answered.
My shield is always lifted....
We fight against principalities....
:amen:

Pavel Mosko · Jul 13, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
But, could I ask you what a Taoist believes? My niece in CA is one and I just can't understand it.

Just in 25 words or less.
Thanks.

There have been a few Christian books relating Christianity to Taoism as far as witnessing, theology etc. goes like the following.

https://www.amazon.com/Christ-Eternal-Tao-Hieromonk-Damascene/dp/1887904239

The big thing in Taoism is "being in Harmony with Nature". And by that they tend to be about "going with the flow", especially when it comes to "not cutting against the grain.". But you probably would need to watch some kind of primer video to get the basics.

I dabbled in it as a self improvement philosophy for life. One Taoist insight that I found helpful was some problems in life are large and cannot be solved quickly, but they can solved by persistent gradual action much like how water can carve through rock, forming canyons, valleys etc. It stuff like that is helpful, especially growing up going in "Christian" parochial schools where you could hear about things like Agape etc. but not really see much of it. Sadly, I saw more virtue of things like patience etc. from my martial arts instructors etc. than I saw from my Christian teachers.

There are some positive things that can appreciated from Taoism that can help a person appreciate aspects of the Bible etc.

\The notion of a "house divided against itself cannot stand" is one. And that saying actually reflects Hebrew attitudes regarding the Truth, the Truth should lead to Shalom, to wholeness etc.

\ The notion of life as a Journey is a big theme in the Bible, but not many Christians really appreciate it or use it as far as teaching themes but it is an important topic especially when it comes to people living their life. Like David biggest defeat came from Bathsheba, and that happened because up until that time he was too busy to fall into temptation, and was not use to dealing with boredom and having to much time on his hands.

Tellyontellyon · Jul 13, 2020

I'm going to half answer the question about my Buddhism as there is another forum for that debate thing. I'm not really here for that.
I happen to be a Buddhist, but I can still be curious about other views and ready to change my own views if I'm convinced.
As a Buddhist, I don't believe in a creator God, but if there is a way for me to experience God then I'm open to trying that.
It's the truth that matters, not the labels we like to put on ourselves, and grasp onto, and defend. Please just speak your truth and tell me of your experiences.

public hermit · Jul 13, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
♥How do you know God exists? ♥What was it that convinced you and continues to convince you?
♥Are you sure?
♥How can I know God?

For me, it has been a process. I was at a really empty and hopeless place when I began to reconsider the Christian faith. I didn't come to it with a skeptical stance. I needed meaning and hope, so I approached it humbly and willing. So, I just did what I was being guided to do by those who I figured might understand more than I did.

Strictly speaking, I don't claim to know. I try to speak in terms of faith, i.e. trust. I am a fallibilist, which means I recognize that what I believe to be true in regards to this faith could be wrong, even though I don't believe it is. Faith is a risk. But for twenty some odd years now it has been working. I am being transformed.

I am not the angry, bitter, and violent person I used to be. I love where I used to hate. I'm patient where I used to go off. I have hope and it hasn't waned. Oddly enough, in some ways I have been through much rougher patches than what I went through prior to coming to faith. It's strange now that I reflect on it. All I can say is that Christ has proven faithful, in my experience.

I think there is a lot to be said for trying to live as Christ taught, in terms of how one comes to faith. I know that may sound counterintuitive, but it is an act of faith to try. The idea of just pulling yourself up by the bootstraps and choosing to believe makes no sense to me and it wasn't my experience. I came to faith over time, and I am still in the process.

Pavel Mosko · Jul 13, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
It's the truth that matters, not the labels we like to put on ourselves, and grasp onto, and defend. Please just speak your truth and tell me of your experiences.

OK Telly I told this story earlier today in a different thread but might as well repeat it since you are interested in this sort of thing. But I point out two things up front that might help you a bit.

1) There is a term "Charismatic" that describes Christians that believe miracles and the supernatural aspects of Christianity in the Bible are still in play. This concept is contrasted with Cessionists who believe that sort of thing "died out with the apostles". OK that is a little bit of an over simplification their are Cessionists that believe in miracles but do not believe in the personal "gifts of the Spirit" etc. but hopefully you get my point.....

2) Their is an Eastern Orthodox concept regarding sacramental objects (basically the sacred objects used for Christian services, like crosses, icons, altar candles etc.) that things get charged energetically speaking from worship. Their is a book you may be interested in called "the Mountain of Silence" that talks about this. The writer also wrote on Buddhism and other topics and seems to like to do some kind of Comparative Religions thing in the book (I found that annoying when I read it but you may like it). Anyway the energy metaphor/paradigm reminds me a bit of static electricity. But this metaphor works both pro and con as in contact with evil charges things the other way....

But this sort of thing is one of the explanations for feeling good when entering a sacred place, vs. feeling bad in your proverbial haunted house. OK there is lot of psychological stuff that can be at play etc. but I'm talking metaphysically speaking... when you got no good reason to feel something both pro and con.

https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Silence-Search-Orthodox-Spirituality/dp/0385500920

Anyway this was a personal story that I blogged a few years ago, that I'm repeating

Personal Story on Consecration (One of the unrealized avenues for Charismatic Witnessing and Evangelism)

A week ago, I had a discussion / disagreement with a Christian that was very put off by the notion that objects in the New Testament era might actually be somehow “consecrated” or even holy (because they are set apart for the ministry of the Gospel). I used many examples that showed that this was not purely Old Testament or even Roman Catholic, but such things actually took place in the New Testament as well. But one of the things, I left out was an actual personal story that happened in my own life.

In the house where I grew up (from 1st grade into college even graduate school) we had a “Living Room” which basically acted as a parlor. My mother was one of the main organists for our local Lutheran church and that was the room she tended to practice her hymns and Lutheran liturgy in and that was something that was mostly ongoing from the 1975-1993. Besides being the organ practice room had another use. In grade school a conflict happened at the local church that led to a church split. The only other Lutheran church in my town was a liberal one, that my parents couldn’t agree with. So for a year or so, under the advice a Lutheran pastor my folks respected we had church service in our home every Sunday for almost a year in that room. My father would lead devotions based on a devotional publication from a new Lutheran synod he just joined, and we also every month would get a few tape recorded sermons mailed to us from some Lutheran pastors we knew that we could listen to as well. Finally, the room became a Bible study and prayer room for, especially after I joined the Charismatic movement in 1990 onward. The room had a good peaceful feeling to it and I tended to use it for graduate school studying as well.

While in grad school I met a friend of a friend. This person was unlike any of my friends and associates. All my other friends tended to fall into one of two categories. 1) People who were openly Christian. Or 2) People who were probably some form of agnostic but reasonably neutral and respectful of their more Christian associates. This was more or less true of most friends and acquaintances, that is until I met Jim. Jim started a whole new class of friends and associates, namely those who are: 3) Openly derogatory of Christianity. The man seemed to have no filter over his mouth, he could see something like a Christian plaque or the title of a book, and could not help but blurt out something insulting about the ignorance of the person writing it etc. This occurred even when he might have to ask you for a favor, or otherwise was on the receiving end of social graces and hospitality.

Besides this associate was unlike any of my other friends, for he was the only one that had any interest in the occult. Strangely enough, his interest was less in the practical end of trying to use the occult as some kind of practical way like many try to use it to help them in romance, to help earn more money etc. Rather than being interested in such things as spell casting, dousing rods, horoscopes etc. this person was for the most part only interested more in to what is termed theosophy, which is the philosophical end of the occult.

Anyway an interesting thing happened one day, while my group of friends were looking to go to the movies together.... I had forgotten a wind breaker jacket and asked that we stop by my house to get it. So my friends, not wanting to wait in the car followed me into my parent’s house where I was staying at the time. What caught me by surprise however was Jim’s exclamation upon immediately entering my parent’s house and looking off to the side where the Living room / organ practice room was. “THERE’S A LOT OF POWER COMING FROM THAT ROOM!” is what he immediately blurted out.

It's interesting in all my talking to this person he was the most close minded person I knew as far as being willing to consider the Gospel as far as all my conversations and interactions of him went. However, his pride and skepticism was momentarily challenged by coming into contact with a Christian sacred space. This story should likewise encourage others in their establishing sacred spaces within their homes, offices etc. For in the Bible, people, objects and places that become dedicated to God become vessels that some aspect of his power and glory. So I would submit establishing sacred spaces is yet another way we can witness to Christ and “occupy until returns” (Luke 19:13)

PS – The great irony of this story as well is parents are non-charismatic. My father is somewhat open to the idea, but my mother can legitimately be called a charismaphobic (very afraid of Holy Rollers). The great irony is in Eastern Orthodox terms much of the worship that “charged” the room with the air of the supernatural came from a lady who is deathly afraid of such things! This itself hopefully will be an encouragement for folks afraid that there “Faith is too weak” for the charisms etc.

DebbieJ · Jul 14, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
♥How do you know God exists? ♥What was it that convinced you and continues to convince you?
♥Are you sure?
♥How can I know God?

This can only be answered by science. Agreed?

1)

The Bible:

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Does the earth have a circle? True or False?

Science says:

The equator is the only line on the Earth's surface that is considered a great circle.This is defined as any circle drawn on a sphere (or an oblate spheroid) with a center that includes the center of that sphere. The equator thus qualifies as a great circle because it passes through the exact center of the Earth and divides it in half.

The Imaginary Line That Marks the Earth's Circumference

Verdict: True. The Earth's circle is the equator.

2)

The Bible:

Job 26:7 "He stretches out his heavens over empty space. He hangs the earth on nothing whatsoever.

Does the Universe stretch? True of False?

Science says:

The universe has not expanded from any one spot since the Big Bang — rather, space itself has been stretching, and carrying matter with it.

Our Expanding Universe: Age, History & Other Facts | Space

Verdict: True. The universe is stretching.

---

That's it for now. I'm just too lazy to write further.

Does the Lord exist? How sure are you?

Advanced science like this in an ancient book is something to ponder. So, yes, I'm sure.

GodsGrace101 · Jul 14, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
I'm going to half answer the question about my Buddhism as there is another forum for that debate thing. I'm not really here for that.
I happen to be a Buddhist, but I can still be curious about other views and ready to change my own views if I'm convinced.
As a Buddhist, I don't believe in a creator God, but if there is a way for me to experience God then I'm open to trying that.
It's the truth that matters, not the labels we like to put on ourselves, and grasp onto, and defend. Please just speak your truth and tell me of your experiences.

I think you're writing to me.
I don't intend to debate about God.
My curiosity is because I don't really understand about Buddhism which would help in how you think.
All I know about Buddhism is that the world is full of misery and it's a way to deal with it but I don't understand HOW. I watched Little Buddha, a very good film, and that's about all I know - which isn't much.

So if you don't believe in a creator God...how do you think everything got started --- IOW, what does Buddhism teach?

Christianity teaches that God created everything we see around us. I understand the Big Bang as being when God said in Genesis 1...LET THERE BE LIGHT. And there was light. IOW,,, God got things started.

The label we put on ourselves is important. If the label is correct, I'm OK with it. It's fine to be called a Christian.

So that's why I believe in God. I could believe everything came from nothing, as some are now trying to teach (such as Lawrence Krauss)...or I could believe that a great power created everything...and that would be God, the Almighty, the Creator.

All mankind has always had to opportunity to believe (or not) in a great spirit. I give you the American Indian. I give you tribal people, praying to a God they do not even know - but they are aware that there must be something greater than they are...something OUTSIDE of themselves.

Some persons have a personal revelation of God. He "speaks" to them in some way and so they come to believe. Some persons come to God through study and common sense. Maybe they read a gospel and come to accept that God is real.

Also, Jesus is the only "light" from God that rose from the dead. No other Light every claimed to be God or rose after death. I was asking about Buddha because I don't know what HE claimed as his mission.

Am I sure?
Yes,,,I'm sure.
The universe is here...it had to get here somehow.

Something had to create it...
or it came from nothing.
I can't think of any other choice at our disposal.

Tolworth John · Jul 14, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
How do you know God exist

The universe exists, we exist so it follows God exists.

Tellyontellyon said:
How can I know God?

Investigate Jesus.

Tellyontellyon · Jul 14, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
I don't intend to debate about God

But that is what this forum is for?
It's for people like me who are curious/searching to ask questions. There's another section on this site for people to talk about what Buddhism is and what it believes. You don't need to know all about Buddhism to tell me what you believe, and I'm really not interested in the debate thing, I'm interested in the inspiration thing.
If you are really interested in understanding Buddhisn then there are Buddhist forums.
E.g. Dharma Wheel - Buddhism Discussion Forum

Halbhh · Jul 14, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
♥How do you know God exists? ♥What was it that convinced you and continues to convince you?
♥Are you sure?
♥How can I know God?

Well, to go from the leap of faith to knowing, there's direct experience, which isn't the first step, but instead a later thing that happens, in my experience.

Here are some helpful things --

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."
(The Christ)

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

To find God, we will want to turn to the Teacher that best knows God, best knows the way, Jesus, the Christ.

To listen to Him, read a gospel, like Matthew, in the clear and good NIV translation. Matthew 1 NIV

Lycurgus89 · Jul 14, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
♥How do you know God exists?

Because there's existance and consciousness, good and evil.

♥What was it that convinced you and continues to convince you?

I once prayed and made an offering to Athena. My prayer was answered in a strange way, so I believed in her. I believe she exists, that she's possibly even real, but I don't know and there is no inspired book I can point to for evidence.

♥Are you sure?

Somebody answered my specific prayer in a specific way, and I've also had renewed vigor to live since then. I can't be atheist, it feels like taking a position unnatural to me.

♥How can I know God?

Pray to him.

Lukaris · Jul 14, 2020

I believe God exists because He became incarnate as the Lord Jesus Christ. His Incarnation, Gospel, Cross, resurrection, & Ascension were done for us to have everlasting life free from suffering.

This is our answer to life & death. His Gospel blesses us to know right from wrong & to do what is good for ourselves & our neighbor. By faith in the Lord we ask His forgiveness for the times we fail because life can often be difficult.

This is not fantastic mythology it is the evidence of truth of a loving God. I believe this can only be understood when our conscience realizes this is what is missing within its own concept of right & wrong, life & death. Individuals vary, are complicated of various disposition of good or bad ( Romans 2).

GodsGrace101 · Jul 15, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
But that is what this forum is for?
It's for people like me who are curious/searching to ask questions. There's another section on this site for people to talk about what Buddhism is and what it believes. You don't need to know all about Buddhism to tell me what you believe, and I'm really not interested in the debate thing, I'm interested in the inspiration thing.
If you are really interested in understanding Buddhisn then there are Buddhist forums.
E.g. Dharma Wheel - Buddhism Discussion Forum

Well, dear Telly,,,,I'm really not all that interested in Buddhism. I do believe I have the one and only faith that is of value, totally of value.

Apparently you read the first paragraph of my post and neglected to read the rest.

I'll post it again, so you could read the entire post:

Christianity teaches that God created everything we see around us. I understand the Big Bang as being when God said in Genesis 1...LET THERE BE LIGHT. And there was light. IOW,,, God got things started.

The label we put on ourselves is important. If the label is correct, I'm OK with it. It's fine to be called a Christian.

So that's why I believe in God. I could believe everything came from nothing, as some are now trying to teach (such as Lawrence Krauss)...or I could believe that a great power created everything...and that would be God, the Almighty, the Creator.

All mankind has always had to opportunity to believe (or not) in a great spirit. I give you the American Indian. I give you tribal people, praying to a God they do not even know - but they are aware that there must be something greater than they are...something OUTSIDE of themselves.

Some persons have a personal revelation of God. He "speaks" to them in some way and so they come to believe. Some persons come to God through study and common sense. Maybe they read a gospel and come to accept that God is real.

Also, Jesus is the only "light" from God that rose from the dead. No other Light every claimed to be God or rose after death. I was asking about Buddha because I don't know what HE claimed as his mission.

Am I sure?
Yes,,,I'm sure.
The universe is here...it had to get here somehow.

Something had to create it...
or it came from nothing.
I can't think of any other choice at our disposal.

Hawkins · Jul 15, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
♥How do you know God exists? ♥What was it that convinced you and continues to convince you?
♥Are you sure?
♥How can I know God?

This is similar to the question that whether you ever had eggs before the age of 2.

Today, people are fallaciously educated, they are brainwashed. They would say ask science, or present the evidence.

No. In reality humans don't rely on those to get to a truth. Humans mostly rely on selecting the best eyewitnesses to decide whether to put faith in their testimonies. In order to know whether you had eggs before the age of 2. People don't ask for evidence, they don't ask science to confirm it. They ask your mom, as she's the best eyewitness.

Since when is the last you tried to prove something, or evidence something in your life time? Your brain is fed with everything in this world without you doing a single proof or seeing a single evidence! That's what our reality is.

So in order to find God, the first thing to do is to fight against the brainwash, and to get to know that humans get facts from testimonies, not evidence including how we get to histories, daily news and even science. 99.99% today's humans knowing for a fact that black holes exist don't have the evidence, as evidence comes scarcely and only a few scientists can have the privilege to access the expensive equipment to get to the evidence. The rest of humans get to this piece of fact by the testimonies of these few scientists.

It is so because humans don't have the capability to get to the evidence more directly. Sometimes, such as history (including the case of you eating eggs before the age of 2), may go completely outside the reach of humans (that's why science is futile about whether you ate eggs before 2).

Jord Simcha · Jul 15, 2020

Hawkins said:
This is similar to the question that whether you ever had eggs before the age of 2.

Today, people are fallaciously educated, they are brainwashed. They would say ask science, or present the evidence.

No. In reality humans don't rely on those to get to a truth. Humans mostly rely on selecting the best eyewitnesses to decide whether to put faith in their testimonies. In order to know whether you had eggs before the age of 2. People don't ask for evidence, they don't ask science to confirm it. They ask your mom, as she's the best eyewitness.

Definitely. Finding the right preacher to listen to was half the work for me. The fact that they're available to watch online is a huge blessing.

Tellyontellyon · Jul 15, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
Apparently you read the first paragraph of my post

No, I read it all, and thank you. I only responded to one part.
I wasn't trying to say that you hadn't answered my question, only that I just don't want to get into Buddhism at all really.
But thank you for your answer.

Tellyontellyon · Jul 15, 2020

Hawkins said:
Today, people are fallaciously educated, they are brainwashed. They would say ask science, or present the evidence

I agree with what you are saying. When I was younger I was very science orientated, but the thing with science is it relies on reproduction of results under standard conditions, it treats the world and people like mechanisms.
But we aren't.
I have no way of proving to anybody that I came out of my body, it was my subjective experience, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, or that it was simply some sort of illusion or hallucination. It's just that the scientific method can't be applied to it.
We can only gather anecdotes, but if you have lots of anecdotes, lots of experiences, then surely that counts for something.
I like Ken Wilbur's definition of 'Deep Science's, and the approach of people like Rupert Sheldrake.

Tellyontellyon · Jul 15, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
I was asking about Buddha because I don't know what HE claimed as his mission.

The Buddha (or the Buddha of this age, as there have been many Buddhas) claimed only to be awake. His mission, his whole teaching can be summarised as suffering and the cessation of suffering. The permanent end of suffering of ALL beings in the six realms of Samsara (Gods, Asuras, Humans, Animals, Ghosts, Hell beings). Liberating them from Samsara (the cycle of suffering - birth and death) which is the state of Nirvana (that can't be defined by any terms that we have available for defining things, but is limitless bliss)

Paul4JC · Jul 17, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
♥How do you know God exists? ♥What was it that convinced you and continues to convince you?
♥Are you sure?
♥How can I know God?

Years ago, I didn't know God. (I didn't know any Christians)
I was 19 when I read the Gospel of John. (over and over)
Jesus claimed to be God. (example John 10...Some wanted to kill him for this claim).
He convinced me of so many things about him.
I believed Jesus. (JESUS IS GOD I painted on my truck bumper.)
My life was changed 36 years ago. (short version)

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