30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

Dave L said:

I didn't know he lost them. Did he fumble the ball? Things got away from him?

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It is called the fall of Adam. The mass were made sinners. That mass of mankind, by the rectification of the Archegos & Prodromos are returned to the Author & Finisher new creatures.

Those fumbled by the fall are unfumbled by the Master Isous!

Light of the East said:

QUOTE="Gup20 The second death, unlike Adam's first universal death, is an individual judgement. There is no escape for those who are individually judged with the second death.

So the actions of one man can give universal death to all who are ever born, whether they did anything or not to deserve it (the faux idea of Augustine that unborn babies go into the eternal fire and suffer) but God doesn't do the exact same thing to reverse the damage that Adam did?

Seems patently unfair to me.

And then there is the Scripture in Romans 5 that you rather conveniently ignore:


Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Another terrible translation. It wasn't "many" who were made sinners. ALL were made sinners. And according to this, ALL will be made righteous.

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This isn't ignored, it's accounted for. As I said, ALL human beings will be resurrected from Adam's death judgement. Yet, not all will enter the kingdom of heaven. BTW - the ONLY reason Adam's death judgment is unfair is because Jesus managed to come and live a sinless life... without Him, Adam's universal judgment would have been completely fair.

But as a result of Jesus' appearance (not his death and resurrection), Adam's death judgment is abolished. This necessarily resurrects everyone who died under that judgment. Then, they face the great white throne judgment and a second death which is permanent torture in the Lake of Fire forever and ever. This is because sin against God is infinitely evil (because God is infinite), and therefore, the only satisfactory justice is an infinite justice.

Consider:
Take the act of killing a living creature; if you kill an ant, this is no huge offense. However, if you kill a family's much beloved pet dog, is this the same or worse than killing an ant? And if you kill a human being, is this the same or worse than killing the dog? You can see how the same exact action - killing a living creature, changes in the severity of the offense depending not on the inherent nature of the action, but upon the nature of whom the action was perpetrated against. Therefore, to sin against an infinite God would be an infinitely evil action. The only justice for an infinitely evil action is an infinite punishment, and that is exactly what the Lake of Fire is.... a fair justice commensurate with the crime. Since the Bible and logic agree, it would be best to take the Bible at it's Word.

Kenny'sID said:

I think you misunderstand.

Doesn't Universalism teach one might make it to heaven without sacrifice?

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Absolutely not. Perhaps the Unitarian Universalists think that (they are HERETICS) but that is not a description of the Universalism which the Early Fathers taught.

FineLinen said:

You can be good till the cows come home. One does not come into the Living God by being good, it comes by being reconciled to Him through His beloved Son.

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And here is what his "beloved son" says:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Hope that helps show you are in error, that my original comment was correct, and that any "ignorance" is not on my behalf.

Gup20 said:

This isn't ignored, it's accounted for. As I said, ALL human beings will be resurrected from Adam's death judgement. Yet, not all will enter the kingdom of heaven. BTW - the ONLY reason Adam's death judgment is unfair is because Jesus managed to come and live a sinless life... without Him, Adam's universal judgment would have been completely fair.

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This is the perfect Theos equation!

The identical many made sinners = the many made righteous.

Every last broken sinner reconciled.

Jesus is YHWH said:

Yes but most do not like the teachings of Jesus. He was clear about eternal torment for the wicked just as He was clear about eternal life for the righteous.

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So believe in a monster God Who, knowing that man will fall and be enveloped in sin, goes right ahead and creates man anyway because it is His will that the vast majority of souls suffer eternally?

There is no quote from Jesus that supports the idea of eternal torment either. None. Jesus was a Jew, and the teaching of the afterlife for the Jew of that day was the grave.

FineLinen said:

My friend: rest assured I do not post patronizing comments.

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Not intentionally, I'm sure.
But I'm afraid that's how it came across.

QUOTE="Gup20,

Consider:
Take the act of killing a living creature; if you kill an ant, this is no huge offense. However, if you kill a family's much beloved pet dog, is this the same or worse than killing an ant? And if you kill a human being, is this the same or worse than killing the dog? You can see how the same exact action - killing a living creature, changes in the severity of the offense depending not on the inherent nature of the action, but upon the nature of whom the action was perpetrated against. Therefore, to sin against an infinite God would be an infinitely evil action. The only justice for an infinitely evil action is an infinite punishment, and that is exactly what the Lake of Fire is.... a fair justice commensurate with the crime. Since the Bible and logic agree, it would be best to take the Bible at it's Word.

That is Anselmian Medieval Serfdom Justice. Anselm of Canterbury developed this idea and it is bogus. You don't find it anywhere in the descriptions of justice which God gave to Israel in the OT. There is one the same punishment for all, and it is based on lex talionis, not some faux idea that some are better than others.

The only offense that would be infinitly evil would be the destruction of a soul forever. Infinite murder. Such a thing does not exist.

So tell me truthfully now. What is your real problem with God having mercy on all people? What about it gets you in a rage that God might actually do such a thing?

Kenny'sID said:

And here is what his "beloved son" says:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

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Correct!

Condemnation is not the end of the purpose of Abba.

His condemnation leads to change and transformation, not mindless unending condemnation.

Sinners made righteous.

FineLinen said:

Correct!

Condemnation is not the end of the purpose of Abba.

His condemnation leads to change and transformation, not mindless unending condemnation.

Sinners made righteous.

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LOL

Saint Steven said:

In the first century, Christianity was not an orthodox belief. Did that make it wrong? Orthodoxy is only valuable to institutions. Have you been institutionalized? - lol

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No, orthodoxy is important is establishing doctrine, compared with cults/false beliefs.
JWs are not orthodox - they deny the Trinity.
Moonies are not orthodox - they say that Jesus the Messiah failed, and that Moon was appointed as a second Messiah. (What they say now that this "Messiah" has died, I don't know.)
In the early church, Gnostics and other groups who denied that Jesus came in the flesh or only became God at his baptism, were not orthodox - a polite way of saying false teachers.
Anyone who doesn't know the truth about the Gospel, and beliefs of the church is far more likely to be led astray by those who say "the Bible says .......", or "Christians teach ..........".

Light of the East said:

So believe in a monster God Who, knowing that man will fall and be enveloped in sin, goes right ahead and creates man anyway because it is His will that the vast majority of souls suffer eternally?

There is no quote from Jesus that supports the idea of eternal torment either. None. Jesus was a Jew, and the teaching of the afterlife for the Jew of that day was the grave.

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The blame for eternal separation from God lies with man and his sin. Gods provided a way of escape but men love their sin rather than loving God. Romans 1 lays that scenario out loud and clear. Sin, death and its consequences apart from God are eternal just as holiness and life are eternal with God.

Man has no one to blame but himself for a life apart from God. Gods provided a way back to fellowship with Him but man loved his sin and is a slave to that sin.

hope this helps !!!

FineLinen said:

Correct!

Condemnation is not the end of the purpose of Abba.

His condemnation leads to change and transformation, not mindless unending condemnation.

Sinners made righteous.

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Good luck finding that teaching in the bible.

FineLinen said:

This is the perfect Theos equation!

The identical many made sinners = the many made righteous.

Every last broken sinner reconciled.

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Every last person resurrected from the first death regardless of personal sin (because their personal sin didn't cause Adam's judgment... Adam's did). It wasn't every person's individual state of righteousness that resurrected them, it was one man's righteousness that resurrected them by abolishing the first judgement. But not everyone will saved from the second, individual death judgement.


So while there is a UNIVERSAL resurrection, there is NOT a universal salvation.


Because of one man's disobedience death came... but because of one man's obedience, that death (Adam's death) was abolished. That means that Adam's judgement is repealed. Once repealed, everyone who died under that judgment is resurrected. But scripture is clear that there is a second, individual judgment AFTER the resurrection from which there is no escape (those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, and those who did evil deeds to a resurrection of a second judgement, or a second death of everlasting contempt).

Light of the East said:

QUOTE="Gup20,

Consider:
Take the act of killing a living creature; if you kill an ant, this is no huge offense. However, if you kill a family's much beloved pet dog, is this the same or worse than killing an ant? And if you kill a human being, is this the same or worse than killing the dog? You can see how the same exact action - killing a living creature, changes in the severity of the offense depending not on the inherent nature of the action, but upon the nature of whom the action was perpetrated against. Therefore, to sin against an infinite God would be an infinitely evil action. The only justice for an infinitely evil action is an infinite punishment, and that is exactly what the Lake of Fire is.... a fair justice commensurate with the crime. Since the Bible and logic agree, it would be best to take the Bible at it's Word.

That is Anselmian Medieval Serfdom Justice. Anselm of Canterbury developed this idea and it is bogus. You don't find it anywhere in the descriptions of justice which God gave to Israel in the OT. There is one the same punishment for all, and it is based on lex talionis, not some faux idea that some are better than others.

The only offense that would be infinitly evil would be the destruction of a soul forever. Infinite murder. Such a thing does not exist.

So tell me truthfully now. What is your real problem with God having mercy on all people? What about it gets you in a rage that God might actually do such a thing?

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I've never heard of Anselmian... this example is something that the Holy Spirit may have revealed to me, but I wrote it myself. I don't read extra-biblical sources... past or present... so I have no idea what someone else may have ever written about the Bible. All the conclusions I come to are my own that I get from my own reading of scripture.

Jesus is YHWH said:

Good luck finding that teaching in the bible.

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Only in a sense are many made faultless. One is always considered innocent until judged... when Adam's judgment is removed, all are resurrected from Adam's death judgment regardless of their individual sin condition. It wasn't their own sin which caused their death... it was Adam's. Therefore once Adam's judgment is repealed, all are resurrected.

After that resurrection, however, all will be judged as individuals. That brief moment in between the resurrection (repeal of Adam's judgment) and the White Throne Judgment (the second death) they are considered "innocent."

Coniser the following:


Numbers is The Law, and speaks to what now is. Ezekiel is future prophecy and speaks to what will be in the Great White Throne Judgment.

Gup20 said:

Every last person resurrected from the first death regardless of personal sin (because their personal sin didn't cause Adam's judgment... Adam's did). It wasn't every person's individual state of righteousness that resurrected them

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We are products of one mans sin. That sin of disobedience landed us into this gigantic mess known as total depravity, not by our choice, but "by reason of Him who made it so".

Our Father takes full responsibility for the mess and the purpose for the mess.

Resurrection of the good, the bad & the ugly is His and His alone!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered.."

Jesus is YHWH said:

Good luck finding that teaching in the bible.

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Luck is not the foundation, nor is chance!

Adam1 = "many made sinners."

Last Adam = "many made righteous".

All = pas

Some = tis

Many = polus

FineLinen said:

...

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FineLinen said:

This is the perfect Theos equation!
The identical many made sinners = the many made righteous.
Every last broken sinner reconciled.

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This is the false UR mantra quoting Paul out-of-context.
Paul used the word "pollus"/"many," 71 times.
Paul used the word "pas"/"all," 375 times.
When Paul wanted to say “all” he used "pas," not "pollus"/”many.”
Paul used “oi polloi”/”the many” 12 times where it clearly does not mean "all."
Romans 12:5, Romans 15:22-23, Romans 16:2,1 Corinthians 10:17, 1 Corinthians 10:33, 2 Corinthians 2:17, 2 Corinthians 8:15, Ephesians 2:4, Colossians 4:13, 1 Timothy 3:13
In one verse 1 Cor 10:33 Paul used “the many” and “all” in the same verse.