LDS The Futile Attempt by Mormons to Earn God's Grace

Peter1000

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But Mormons teach that grace isn't given freely; it has to be earned. I know a lot about Mormonism. They teach many doctrines that aren't Christian. This part of Christian Forums is for debating non-Christian religions.
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Again you continue to misquote Mormons. Grace is given freely after you do certain things so that Jesus gives his grace to you. For instance you have to believe and confess Jesus. If you don't do these works, you will not get the gift of grace.

After you receive grace, you need to do good works out of your love for God. It also positions you in heaven, for we will all be judged according to your works. For what reason, if we are in heaven, why must we be judged according to our works?
 
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Rescued One

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Again you continue to misquote Mormons. Grace is given freely after you do certain things so that Jesus gives his grace to you. For instance you have to believe and confess Jesus. If you don't do these works, you will not get the gift of grace.

I don't misquote Mormons. Be nice --- people get reported for ad hominems. You've haven't proven that I've misquoted anyone.

After you receive grace, you need to do good works out of your love for God. It also positions you in heaven, for we will all be judged according to your works.

Without Jesus, you can't do anything and you can't earn His grace.

BTW, no one will be judged according to my works!

Mormonism:

For what reason, if we are in heaven, why must we be judged according to our works?

Who said there are unsaved people in heaven???
Question mark.gif
 
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Peter1000

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I don't misquote Mormons. Be nice --- people get reported for ad hominems. You've haven't proven that I've misquoted anyone.



Without Jesus, you can't do anything and you can't earn His grace.

BTW, no one will be judged according to my works!

Mormonism:



Who said there are unsaved people in heaven??? View attachment 280786
If you say that Mormons do good works to gain salvation, you are misquoting Mormon doctrine.

You are right, without Jesus you cannot get to heaven. You must 1) believe and 2) confess the Lord Jesus or you will not be given the gift of grace. Read your scriptures, everyone must do these 2 things. If you don't, why would Jesus give you the gift of grace? He wouldn't.

BTW, you are right, but a man or woman will be judged according to their works. Can you tell me if you are auto saved by believing and confessing, why we are judged according to our works?

There are no unsaved persons in heaven. But the scritpures say that ALL will eventually believe and confess that Jesus is the Christ. And that confession will get them into heaven. Now they are judged according to their works, and will be positioined in the lowest or Telestial kingdom of God. Far, far, away from God and Jesus, but nonetheless in heaven.
 
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He is the way

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No one can keep the commandments without Jesus:



Sure they can:

(New Testament | Mark 10:17 - 21)

17 ¶ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

He did keep the commandments, but he could have also had treasure in heaven if he would have done as Jesus asked. What should we do?:

(Old Testament | Joshua 24:15)

15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve (work for) the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;.......
 
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He is the way

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This, too, assures us. He saved us by His mercy and grace. Jesus paid for our eternal life and we know that it was a complete payment resulting in our overwhelming LOVE for HIM.
Who's sins did Jesus pay for?:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

(New Testament | Hebrews 10:26)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
 
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twin.spin

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This is what Mormons believe what grace is: it is the power which God gives people to save themselves, which he grants only after they have done everything they can do.

"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p 696)

"... we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:33)

Biblical Christianity teaches that God revealed grace as the unconditional, undeserved, unfathomable, love on God's part that moved him to save us.
 
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Rescued One

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This is what Mormons believe what grace is: it is the power which God gives people to save themselves, which he grants only after they have done everything they can do.

"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p 696)

"... we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:33)...

Helpful link for those who deny or doubt your information:
Grace
 
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Rescued One

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John 3

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


John 5

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 
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He is the way

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This is what Mormons believe what grace is: it is the power which God gives people to save themselves, which he grants only after they have done everything they can do.

"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p 696)

"... we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:33)

Biblical Christianity teaches that God revealed grace as the unconditional, undeserved, unfathomable, love on God's part that moved him to save us.
The funny thing is that there are people who think what we believe disagrees with the Bible, but it does NOT disagree. We are not saved by works, nor are we saved without works.
 
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He is the way

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John 3

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


John 5

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Who believes in Christ?

(New Testament | John 14:12)

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
 
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He is the way

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Jesus answered:
John 10

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Correct, the sheep, they kept the commandments of LOVE:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:31 - 46)

31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
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Rescued One

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Who believes in Christ?

Everyone that He saves!

The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. – John 10:3-4

Christian John-10-27.jpg
 
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Rescued One

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The goats don't believe. Jesus says to them:

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The sheep believe His words:
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 
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Rescued One

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The funny thing is that there are people who think what we believe disagrees with the Bible, but it does NOT disagree. We are not saved by works, nor are we saved without works.

In order to receive exaltation/eternal life, Mormons MUST do the works of Mormonism and must acknowledge Joseph Smith as a prophet of God.
 
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He is the way

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Everyone that He saves!

The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. – John 10:3-4

View attachment 280821
The sheep LOVE Him and keep His commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:1 - 6)

1 MY little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 
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He is the way

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The goats don't believe. Jesus says to them:

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The sheep believe His words:
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
(New Testament | John 10:37 - 38)

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


(New Testament | Ephesians 2:10)

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 6)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
 
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He is the way

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In order to receive exaltation/eternal life, Mormons MUST do the works of Mormonism and must acknowledge Joseph Smith as a prophet of God.
We are not saved by works, nor are we saved without works.

Matt 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Matt. 7: 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Matt 7: 21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 16: 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matt. 25: 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

John 3: 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 8: 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

John 9: 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 14: 15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Acts 10: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 Cor. 3: 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

2 Cor. 5: 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Gal. 6: 4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Eph. 2: 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philip. 2: 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2 Tim. 3: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Titus 3: 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Heb. 13: 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

James 1: 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 2: 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James 4: 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 Pet. 1: 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1 Jn. 3: 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Rev. 2: 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Rev. 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev. 22: 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
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Ran77

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This is what Mormons believe what grace is: it is the power which God gives people to save themselves, which he grants only after they have done everything they can do.

"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p 696)

"... we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:33)

Biblical Christianity teaches that God revealed grace as the unconditional, undeserved, unfathomable, love on God's part that moved him to save us.

Neither of the quotes you provide state that people save themselves. The second verse actually clearly identifies that we are saved by grace. Grace is also mentioned in the first quote and is identified as the power which saves us.

Misrepresenting the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does nothing to show others that we are wrong. It only demonstrates a willingness to not deal with the facts.
 
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