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Bob S

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Sister, the beginning is an unspecified time before the week of creation. The first day is from first light to light again in the morning and the following days from morning to morning until the first Sabbath from morning to morning that God taught Israel to remember from evening to evening because it is remembered in the Eden time zone. A leap of faith that the Bible does not contradict itself, which is now verified by the International Date Line site as the site of our origin in Eden. Where God taught us to count the days of the week to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Hi Jorge, since you brought up the IDL something had to have happened to the weekly cycle as to the beginning of the Sabbath. We know that the Sabbath was established very near Mt Sinai.and as the World turns the Sabbath begins later until 48 hours later all the people observing the day have completed the 24 hour cycle. Now, when the IDL became in existence the cycle didn't begin at Sinai, it begins East of New Zealand. They begin the weekly cycle not at Sinai and the people of western Alaska and Hawaii at the tail end of the cycle.

As to when the Sabbath was to begin seems to SDAs to be very important. The prophet wrote and said to "guard the edges". The dilemma lies in the fact that Ellen was told that the beginning of the Sabbath hours was even to even. They interpreted that as 6:00 pm. One brother even had a vision of a clock that pointed to the 6:00 time:

"A little more than a year before this there was a demonstration of tongues that placed endorsement on an erroneous interpretation of Scripture in connection with Sabbathkeeping. Joseph Bates, the apostle of the Sabbath truth, at the outset took the position that the Sabbath began at evening. Taking into account time problems in different parts of the world, Bates believed that the proper time to commence the Sabbath was equatorial time, or 6:00 P.M., the year around. This concept was generally accepted as men and women from the Adventist ranks began to keep the seventh-day Sabbath. Writing from Berlin, Connecticut, on July 2, 1848, James White reported: {1BIO 199.2}
There has been some division [in Connecticut] as to the time of beginning the Sabbath. Some commenced at sundown. Most, however, at 6:00 P.M. A week ago Sabbath we made this a subject of prayer. The Holy Ghost came down; Brother Chamberlain was filled with the power. In this state he cried out in an unknown tongue. The interpretation followed, which was this: “Give me the chalk. Give me the chalk.” {1BIO 199.3}
Well, thought I, if there is none in the house, then I shall doubt this, but in a moment a brother took down a good piece of chalk. Brother Chamberlain took it and in the power he drew this figure on the floor [a circle divided by crossing horizontal and vertical lines and the figures, 12, 3, 6, and 9 written in, as on the face of a clock]. {1BIO 199.4}
This represents Jesus’ words. Are there not twelve hours in the day? This figure represents the day or the last half of the day. Daylight is half gone when the sun is south or halfway from each horizon, at twelve o’clock. Now go each way six hours, and you will get the twelve-hour day. At any time a year, the day ends at 6:00 P.M. Here is where the Sabbath begins at 6:00 P.M.—JW to “My Dear Brother,” July 2, 1848. {1BIO 199.5}
James White added, “Satan would get us from this time. But let us stand fast in the Sabbath as God has given it to us and Brother Bates. God has raised up Brother Bates to give this truth. I should have more faith in his opinion than any other man’s.”— Ibid. {1BIO 200.1}
With the seeming strong evidence that accompanied the confirmation of the six o’clock time, Sabbathkeeping Adventists continued to observe it until Bible study and a confirming vision in 1855 led them, assembled in the conference in Battle Creek, to observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown. {1BIO 200.2}
There were two other experiences, both of minor significance, one calling for John Andrews to enter the ministry and the other in connection with the ordination of Washington Morse to the gospel ministry. [See the series sdas and ecstatic experiences, The Review and Herald, March 15, 22, and 29, 1973.] {1BIO 200.3}

Guess he didn't get that vision from God and the question hangs as to why the prophet got the vision even to even and not sunset to sunset which would have solved the problem seven years earlier. I believe the whole story is a farce. She supposedly was told to guard the edges and the command was so important that it had a halo around the command. Plus the fact that not observing it will send us to Hell according to the prophet, something God never mentioned.
 
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Word and Spirit

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Hi Jorge, since you brought up the IDL something had to have happened to the weekly cycle as to the beginning of the Sabbath. We know that the Sabbath was established very near Mt Sinai.and as the World turns the Sabbath begins later until 48 hours later all the people observing the day have completed the 24 hour cycle. Now, when the IDL became in existence the cycle didn't begin at Sinai, it begins East of New Zealand. They begin the weekly cycle not at Sinai and the people of western Alaska and Hawaii at the tail end of the cycle.

As to when the Sabbath was to begin seems to SDAs to be very important. The prophet wrote and said to "guard the edges". The dilemma lies in the fact that Ellen was told that the beginning of the Sabbath hours was even to even. They interpreted that as 6:00 pm. One brother even had a vision of a clock that pointed to the 6:00 time:

"A little more than a year before this there was a demonstration of tongues that placed endorsement on an erroneous interpretation of Scripture in connection with Sabbathkeeping. Joseph Bates, the apostle of the Sabbath truth, at the outset took the position that the Sabbath began at evening. Taking into account time problems in different parts of the world, Bates believed that the proper time to commence the Sabbath was equatorial time, or 6:00 P.M., the year around. This concept was generally accepted as men and women from the Adventist ranks began to keep the seventh-day Sabbath. Writing from Berlin, Connecticut, on July 2, 1848, James White reported: {1BIO 199.2}
There has been some division [in Connecticut] as to the time of beginning the Sabbath. Some commenced at sundown. Most, however, at 6:00 P.M. A week ago Sabbath we made this a subject of prayer. The Holy Ghost came down; Brother Chamberlain was filled with the power. In this state he cried out in an unknown tongue. The interpretation followed, which was this: “Give me the chalk. Give me the chalk.” {1BIO 199.3}
Well, thought I, if there is none in the house, then I shall doubt this, but in a moment a brother took down a good piece of chalk. Brother Chamberlain took it and in the power he drew this figure on the floor [a circle divided by crossing horizontal and vertical lines and the figures, 12, 3, 6, and 9 written in, as on the face of a clock]. {1BIO 199.4}
This represents Jesus’ words. Are there not twelve hours in the day? This figure represents the day or the last half of the day. Daylight is half gone when the sun is south or halfway from each horizon, at twelve o’clock. Now go each way six hours, and you will get the twelve-hour day. At any time a year, the day ends at 6:00 P.M. Here is where the Sabbath begins at 6:00 P.M.—JW to “My Dear Brother,” July 2, 1848. {1BIO 199.5}
James White added, “Satan would get us from this time. But let us stand fast in the Sabbath as God has given it to us and Brother Bates. God has raised up Brother Bates to give this truth. I should have more faith in his opinion than any other man’s.”— Ibid. {1BIO 200.1}
With the seeming strong evidence that accompanied the confirmation of the six o’clock time, Sabbathkeeping Adventists continued to observe it until Bible study and a confirming vision in 1855 led them, assembled in the conference in Battle Creek, to observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown. {1BIO 200.2}
There were two other experiences, both of minor significance, one calling for John Andrews to enter the ministry and the other in connection with the ordination of Washington Morse to the gospel ministry. [See the series sdas and ecstatic experiences, The Review and Herald, March 15, 22, and 29, 1973.] {1BIO 200.3}

Guess he didn't get that vision from God and the question hangs as to why the prophet got the vision even to even and not sunset to sunset which would have solved the problem seven years earlier. I believe the whole story is a farce. She supposedly was told to guard the edges and the command was so important that it had a halo around the command. Plus the fact that not observing it will send us to Hell according to the prophet, something God never mentioned.

Don't knock it Bob. Remember we are not to judge each other on this subject (Romans 14). If they believe they have to keep the Sabbath in that way, then it would be a sin for them not to. So seeing a halo around the command would be pertinent and truth to them.
 
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Bob S

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Don't knock it Bob. Remember we are not to judge each other on this subject (Romans 14). If they believe they have to keep the Sabbath in that way, then it would be a sin for them not to. So seeing a halo around the command would be pertinent and truth to them.
I would not have a problem at all if those who believe they need to keep a day Holy unto the Lord would not judge by telling those who see it differently we are sinning. I challenge their belief system not because I think I can change what has been taught to make them, but to explain to the lurkers who read our posts and could decide to join their ranks.

By the way, I do not believe I have ever judged anyone to Hell because they believe a certain way. God is the only one that knows the heart. It would be way way above my pay grade and wrong to do so.
 
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Word and Spirit

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I would not have a problem at all if those who believe they need to keep a day Holy unto the Lord would not judge by telling those who see it differently we are sinning. I challenge their belief system not because I think I can change what has been taught to make them, but to explain to the lurkers who read our posts and could decide to join their ranks.

By the way, I do not believe I have ever judged anyone to Hell because they believe a certain way. God is the only one that knows the heart. It would be way way above my pay grade and wrong to do so.

Do you remember where you read that EGW said that those who did not keep the 7th day Sabbath would go to hell?
 
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guevaraj

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Hi Jorge, since you brought up the IDL something had to have happened to the weekly cycle as to the beginning of the Sabbath. We know that the Sabbath was established very near Mt Sinai.and as the World turns the Sabbath begins later until 48 hours later all the people observing the day have completed the 24 hour cycle. Now, when the IDL became in existence the cycle didn't begin at Sinai, it begins East of New Zealand. They begin the weekly cycle not at Sinai and the people of western Alaska and Hawaii at the tail end of the cycle.

Brother, the Sabbath was established on the Seventh day of creation in Genesis, when God made that day holy on which He rested. What we didn't know until God taught Israel to remember the Sabbath is that God remembers it in the Eden time zone.

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NIV)​

When did God made the Sabbath holy?

As to when the Sabbath was to begin seems to SDAs to be very important. The prophet wrote and said to "guard the edges". The dilemma lies in the fact that Ellen was told that the beginning of the Sabbath hours was even to even. They interpreted that as 6:00 pm. One brother even had a vision of a clock that pointed to the 6:00 time:

Brother Bates was right and wrong at the same time. He was right that we shouldn't keep the Sabbath at sunrise here in the United States, but he was wrong that “even” was 6 pm. The first vision of our prophetess confirmed Bates' correct conviction that sunrise was wrong for us here in the United States and that “even” is correct for Israel as God taught them. Her second vision confirmed our study of what “even” is and pointed to the first Sabbath in Genesis when God rested for the first time in the week of creation to understand when “even” is on the first day, after having discovered "even" means sunset. What we didn't understand before our prophetess died is that “even” falls in the middle of the first day in Genesis.

Guess he didn't get that vision from God and the question hangs as to why the prophet got the vision even to even and not sunset to sunset which would have solved the problem seven years earlier. I believe the whole story is a farce. She supposedly was told to guard the edges and the command was so important that it had a halo around the command. Plus the fact that not observing it will send us to Hell according to the prophet, something God never mentioned.

Our pioneers understood that God wanted us rooted in Scripture and not on spiritual gifts. There are many false prophets like this who confirmed 6 pm whom the Lord has not sent, like Hananiah in Scripture. God expects us to put Scripture first and not the spiritual gifts that contradict Scripture.

Then the prophet Jeremiah said to Hananiah the prophet, “Listen, Hananiah! The Lord has not sent you, yet you have persuaded this nation to trust in lies. Therefore this is what the Lord says: ‘I am about to remove you from the face of the earth. This very year you are going to die, because you have preached rebellion against the Lord.’” In the seventh month of that same year, Hananiah the prophet died. (Jeremiah 28:15-17 NIV)​

United in the hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Cshuffle777

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I would not have a problem at all if those who believe they need to keep a day Holy unto the Lord would not judge by telling those who see it differently we are sinning. I challenge their belief system not because I think I can change what has been taught to make them, but to explain to the lurkers who read our posts and could decide to join their ranks.

By the way, I do not believe I have ever judged anyone to Hell because they believe a certain way. God is the only one that knows the heart. It would be way way above my pay grade and wrong to do so.
When's the last time a Sabbath-keeper on CF told you that you were going to hell, Bob?
 
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Word and Spirit

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If any member here tells another member that they are going to hell, then the aforesaid member is eligible for immediate dismissal. The net result is that folks are perforce required to be nicer to other members than they might be outside of CF.

What if some poster says you are demon possessed? What then?
 
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Bob S

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When's the last time a Sabbath-keeper on CF told you that you were going to hell, Bob?
Well Cs, bbbbbbb explained it nicely. I suspect that many would like to tell me that and when they tell me I have to keep all of the, for Israel only and now defunct ten commandments that is a subtle way of telling me just that. Since I was one for forty years I pretty much know what they think.
Do you remember where you read that EGW said that those who did not keep the 7th day Sabbath would go to hell?
Ellen White said it in a little nicer tone:
But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}
 
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Bob S

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Brother, the Sabbath was established on the Seventh day of creation in Genesis, when God made that day holy on which He rested. What we didn't know until God taught Israel to remember the Sabbath is that God remembers it in the Eden time zone.
The first thing you wrote is wrong brother. It was six days of creation. God didn't create anything on Saturday, He rested and blessed that day. It does not tell us that He rested the following Saturday or that Adam or anyone else rested on Saturday until after the crossing of the Red Sea. God established a Saturday once the Israelites were not being chased by the Egyptians. If all the Saturdays the Israelites used for fleeing Egyptians were so very Holy it would seem God would have had them stop fleeing on those days. The fact that God didn't stop them pretty well meant that at that point it wasn't an issue.

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Is that a command. It sure seems like one. Do you keep that command.
but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NIV)​

When did God made the Sabbath holy?
He made one day Holy that is for sure, the day after creation. Then for sure He required the Israelites to keep Saturday Holy. We have no evidence that any other people or nations were ever asked to observe Saturday. It is not part of the new covenant, so why do you believe it is necessary to observe a special day given to only one people who rejected the covenant that contained the commandment?



Brother Bates was right and wrong at the same time. He was right that we shouldn't keep the Sabbath at sunrise here in the United States, but he was wrong that “even” was 6 pm. The first vision of our prophetess confirmed Bates' correct conviction that sunrise was wrong for us here in the United States and that “even” is correct for Israel as God taught them. Her second vision confirmed our study of what “even” is and pointed to the first Sabbath in Genesis when God rested for the first time in the week of creation to understand when “even” is on the first day, after having discovered "even" means sunset. What we didn't understand before our prophetess died is that “even” falls in the middle of the first day in Genesis.
The most important commandment according to the prophetess, the one with the Halo around it, and her angel didn't tell her when to observe it????? Come on Brother, there are so many holes in the whole scenario that any thinking person should realize she and all her followers were and are wrong.
 
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Cshuffle777

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Well Cs, bbbbbbb explained it nicely. I suspect that many would like to tell me that and when they tell me I have to keep all of the, for Israel only and now defunct ten commandments that is a subtle way of telling me just that. Since I was one for forty years I pretty much know what they think.
I gotta say, that's pretty weak, Bob. Are you sure you want to go there? Your own history shows some pretty un-subtle stuff. If people aren't really telling you that you're going to hell, why say so? You park yourself exclusively in threads defending Sabbath-keeping on a website called "Christian Forums" and expect it never to be even subtly suggested that people (not just you) might be under an obligation as a Christian to keep the Sabbath? I don't know what to make of that, frankly. When you first heard of Sabbath-keeping, did you feel like you were being "judged to hell?" I know I sure didn't. Adventist teaching about hell liberated me to make thoughtful decisions about God and my relationship to Him.

It's the Bible Itself that says sin leads to death (Ezekiel 18:20), not Sabbath-keepers. If you connect the dots a certain way, isn't that on you? We believe that the evidence is overwhelming that God never gave a 10 to 100% discount on the ten commandments. It is perfectly reasonable (and was even popular until the mid-20th century) and we have every God-given right to do so and say so, 2 Corinthians 3 and Colossians 2 notwithstanding. If you tell someone that murder is a sin or that they should love their neighbor as themselves then, by your logic, aren't you "subtly judging" them "to hell?" Or could it be that you are simply warning them because you love them too much to see them destroyed?

Also, I can assure you that unless you figure we're all like robots, yo do not know what we think. Seventh-day Adventists are not all Mrs. White clones or followers, and it is both offensive and dishonest (and I don't care if you think I'm subtly calling you a liar, because I know I'm not) for you to characterize and marginalize them as such. This might have been more true at the height of your experience as an Adventist, but today, adherents have become so diverse as to often be barely distinguishable at all from normal folk. Many Adventists have even adopted theistic evolution.

Ellen White said it in a little nicer tone:
But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

Notice that in 3 out of 4 of these quotes it is at least suggested that only those who've been convinced that the Sabbath is obligatory today will be held accountable for its keeping.

Come on Brother, there are so many holes in the whole scenario that any thinking person should realize she and all her followers were and are wrong.

Are you saying you weren't a thinking person for 40 years, Bob? I find that hard to believe. You seem pretty savvy to me, especially for your age, if I may say so.

I know you don't owe me anything, but if you reply to this, what say you actually address some of the points I'm making as opposed to repeating the usual talking points, if only just for the sake of novelty or dynamic exchange of ideas?
 
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Notice that in 3 out of 4 of these quotes it is at least suggested that only those who've been convinced that the Sabbath is obligatory today will be held accountable for its keeping.

That is really peculiar. I knew a fellow who was convinced that he needed to beat his wife regularly, which he did. He was under no conviction that such behavior was sin. Does that mean that he was completely blameless in his behavior?
 
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guevaraj

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The first thing you wrote is wrong brother. It was six days of creation. God didn't create anything on Saturday, He rested and blessed that day.
Brother, on the seventh day God made the Sabbath when God made that day holy, a fixed period in the Eden time zone that is independent of the week. Therefore, God did make something each of the seven days of creation week. Tell me, when was the Sabbath made?

Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (Mark 2:27 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Brother, on the seventh day God made the Sabbath when God made that day holy, a fixed period in the Eden time zone that is independent of the week. Therefore, God did make something each of the seven days of creation week. Tell me, when was the Sabbath made?

Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (Mark 2:27 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
I am not going to argue the point. You have your belief and you are free to express it and I am free to believe and express my belief. I have done that and I am sticking to it.
 
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The curious thing about the seven days of creation is that on the seventh day God rested from His work. On the eighth day and all succeeding days He is not said to have resumed any work whatsoever, so God seems to have rested once and forever. That is not unlike the completed work of Jesus Christ. Once He offered Himself as the perfect, spotless, sinless sacrifice on Calvary's cross, His work of salvation was completed and He entered into His rest. His people also have ceased from their pitiful works and now enter His perfect rest. Hallelujah!
 
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Bob S

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I gotta say, that's pretty weak, Bob.
What is pretty weak C? Give me some thing that you believe is strong so that I have something to compare.
Are you sure you want to go there? Your own history shows some pretty un-subtle stuff.
Just how in the world would you know anything about my history? You are trying to make statements to belittle me without any proof. EXPLAIN to me about what you are referring instead of just running your fingers over the key board.

If people aren't really telling you that you're going to hell, why say so? You park yourself exclusively in threads defending Sabbath-keeping on a website called "Christian Forums" and expect it never to be even subtly suggested that people (not just you) might be under an obligation as a Christian to keep the Sabbath? I don't know what to make of that, frankly. When you first heard of Sabbath-keeping, did you feel like you were being "judged to hell?" I know I sure didn't. Adventist teaching about hell liberated me to make thoughtful decisions about God and my relationship to Him.
What is it you want me to say?

It's the Bible Itself that says sin leads to death (Ezekiel 18:20), not Sabbath-keepers. If you connect the dots a certain way, isn't that on you?
Care to rephrase that? Sin is transgression of the Law. To a Jew before the new covenant it certainly was a sin to transgress the Sabbath. The new covenant has no Sabbath law, so how would it be possible to transgress it. Even when the old covenant was the existing agreement with Israel it didn't include Gentiles, so Gentiles were not sinning because they didn't keep the Sabbath.

We believe that the evidence is overwhelming that God never gave a 10 to 100% discount on the ten commandments.
Care to explain what you wrote? The ten commandments were given to the Israelites and only them.

It is perfectly reasonable (and was even popular until the mid-20th century) and we have every God-given right to do so and say so, 2 Corinthians 3 and Colossians 2 notwithstanding.
Do so what?

If you tell someone that murder is a sin or that they should love their neighbor as themselves then, by your logic, aren't you "subtly judging" them "to hell?"
Or could it be that you are simply warning them because you love them too much to see them destroyed?
My logic? What is my "logic"?

Also, I can assure you that unless you figure we're all like robots, yo do not know what we think. Seventh-day Adventists are not all Mrs. White clones or followers, and it is both offensive and dishonest (and I don't care if you think I'm subtly calling you a liar, because I know I'm not) for you to characterize and marginalize them as such.
I know what the true Adventists believe because they are Ellen White adherents. Call me what you please and deny what I have written, I cannot control what you believe.

This might have been more true at the height of your experience as an Adventist, but today, adherents have become so diverse as to often be barely distinguishable at all from normal folk. Many Adventists have even adopted theistic evolution.
First of all if a person is SDA that person agreed to believe that Mrs White indeed is the prophet sent by God to the SDA church to guide and enlighten the flock. If one does not believe she was what she claimed to be then it would be reasonable to believe that person was/is not really a true SDA. The church doesn't kick people out because they don't believe, but I certainly wouldn't want to stick around supporting something I don't believe. I guess the church likes to see the big numbers when compared to other churches. Over twenty million adherents is quite impressive until you see the number of actual participating members.



Notice that in 3 out of 4 of these quotes it is at least suggested that only those who've been convinced that the Sabbath is obligatory today will be held accountable for its keeping.



Are you saying you weren't a thinking person for 40 years, Bob? I find that hard to believe. You seem pretty savvy to me, especially for your age, if I may say so.

I know you don't owe me anything, but if you reply to this, what say you actually address some of the points I'm making as opposed to repeating the usual talking points, if only just for the sake of novelty or dynamic exchange of ideas?
 
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MAT 07:21
It is not everyone that says to me, 'Adonai Adonai'', who enters the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever does the will of my Father who is in Heaven. Many will say to me in that day, 'Adonai, Adonai, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name have cast out demons, and have done many mighty works in your name?' And then I will confess to them, 'I have never known you, remove yourselves far from me, you workers of lawlessness"

Key word = "I never knew you"

EZK 20:20
Hallow My sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am YHVH, your God.

If you Know Him through His Sabbaths, He knows you through His Sabbaths
Meaning......... If your not keeping His Sabbath, He doesn't know you
Meaning......... If you are keeping His Sabbaths, He does know you

In original Biblical thought, the day a person keeps as Holy represents the God they serve.

FRI = islamic moon god
SAT = God of Israel
SUN = christian sun god

In MAT 07:21, whom is Messiah referring to at the end of time...?
A - Do muslims do great works in His name
B - Do Jews do great works in His name
C - Do christians do great works in His name

Only 1-group do great words in His name. Thus Messiah is referring to this group. Telling them that despite all these great works........... They mean nothing because you failed to honour His Fathers 4th commandment Sabbaths.........
 
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bbbbbbb

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MAT 07:21
It is not everyone that says to me, 'Adonai Adonai'', who enters the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever does the will of my Father who is in Heaven. Many will say to me in that day, 'Adonai, Adonai, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name have cast out demons, and have done many mighty works in your name?' And then I will confess to them, 'I have never known you, remove yourselves far from me, you workers of lawlessness"

Key word = "I never knew you"

EZK 20:20
Hallow My sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am YHVH, your God.

If you Know Him through His Sabbaths, He knows you through His Sabbaths
Meaning......... If your not keeping His Sabbath, He doesn't know you
Meaning......... If you are keeping His Sabbaths, He does know you

In original Biblical thought, the day a person keeps as Holy represents the God they serve.

FRI = islamic moon god
SAT = God of Israel
SUN = christian sun god

In MAT 07:21, whom is Messiah referring to at the end of time...?
A - Do muslims do great works in His name
B - Do Jews do great works in His name
C - Do christians do great works in His name

Only 1-group do great words in His name. Thus Messiah is referring to this group. Telling them that despite all these great works........... They mean nothing because you failed to honour His Fathers 4th commandment Sabbaths.........

When was the last Sabbath year in which you entirely refrained from working?
 
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Bob S

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MAT 07:21
It is not everyone that says to me, 'Adonai Adonai'', who enters the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever does the will of my Father who is in Heaven. Many will say to me in that day, 'Adonai, Adonai, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name have cast out demons, and have done many mighty works in your name?' And then I will confess to them, 'I have never known you, remove yourselves far from me, you workers of lawlessness"

Key word = "I never knew you"

EZK 20:20
Hallow My sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am YHVH, your God.

If you Know Him through His Sabbaths, He knows you through His Sabbaths
Meaning......... If your not keeping His Sabbath, He doesn't know you
Meaning......... If you are keeping His Sabbaths, He does know you

In original Biblical thought, the day a person keeps as Holy represents the God they serve.

FRI = islamic moon god
SAT = God of Israel
SUN = christian sun god

In MAT 07:21, whom is Messiah referring to at the end of time...?
A - Do muslims do great works in His name
B - Do Jews do great works in His name
C - Do christians do great works in His name

Only 1-group do great words in His name. Thus Messiah is referring to this group. Telling them that despite all these great works........... They mean nothing because you failed to honour His Fathers 4th commandment Sabbaths.........
There is no fourth commandment in the new covenant. The ten commandments you are referring to were for the Israelites only. Do you really believe all the Gentiles that lived before Jesus came and voided the old covenant and replaced it with the new will not be saved? They didn't observe the fourth commandment. Abraham the Gentile didn't either so is he lost? It really seems like your post is judging Christianity. I prefer to leave the judging to God.
 
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