Why do dispensationalists chop up the bible into different ages?

kenneth558

Believer in the Invisible
Aug 1, 2003
745
22
65
Omaha, NE
Visit site
✟19,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But you forget it is not ME that NAMED these different
"Kingdoms of Heaven"... it's Jesus.

Those kingdom names never came out of His mouth in ANY of the references you provide. They are made up by you or some other man/woman who misunderstands "dispensation".

Dan. 4:3, in part: "his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom". One King, one kingdom, one time period. If you find a verse in DIRECT conflict with this statement, let me know. (Yes, I am aware who it was that said this in the book of Daniel. Nonetheless, I believe it to be inspired.)

I was raised to think of a dispensation as a "when" thing. After reading my Bible independently, seriously, and with abandon belief, I see how that misconception of the term leads to innumerable unbeliefs. I hope you'll tolerate me sharing what I've learned of dispensation from scripture and its Author and absolutely no other earthly person:

Jesus used the term dispensation when he told the parable of the unjust steward who was about to lose his dispensation (job, responsibilities, stewardship). The apostle Paul speaks of the dispensation of the fulness of times (again: job, responsibilities, stewardship) where God dispenses an assignment (dispensation) to Jesus to

"gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth".

As you know, the epistles of Ephesians and Colossians parallel each other, so this same assignment (job, responsibilities, stewardship) of God to Jesus is mentioned in Colossians 1:19-20 (hyperlink not intended)

"For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

So God will have Jesus carry out that end-time dispensation (assignment, job, responsibility, stewardship) of "gather together in one all things" or "reconcile all things".

Other New Testament uses of the term dispensation are I Cor 9:16-17, Eph 3:2 and Col 1:25 every single one of which are specifically speaking of Paul's dispensation (assignment, job, responsibility, stewardship) from God to deliver the Gospel to the readers of those epistles.

In other words, "dispensation" has nothing whatsoever to do with "when". It is the assigning by one in authority of a task to one under that authority to perform for them.

The correct alternate way of viewing God's dealing with mankind over history is this found in Deut 29:29:

"The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever", [not to be discarded at the end of some made-up "dispensation".]

The most difficult block for most Christians to understanding this radically different concept of dispensation is that they have been led to think in terms of the Law of Moses as a supposed means of salvation gave way to salvation by the Cross, so thereby was a new dispensation ushered in. That notion is falsified by two witnesses against it: Paul states emphatically that the Law could never have given salvation because salvation had always been and still is by grace through faith. The second witness against that notion is the very clear and unambiguous declaration that obedience to the Law of Moses served the purpose of, not personal salvation, but distinguishing the nation of Israel from all other nations:

Ex 19:5 and elsewhere
"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people"
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Well the differing kingdoms mentioned in the NT are biblical. dispensational hermeneutics allow us to see that they are in different time periods and have different qualities.

One kingdom is the offer of teh kingdom to Israel which Israel rejected and Jesus temporarily revoked.

Teh 2nd kingdom is the "mystery from fo the kingdom which is also called the church age or age of grace!

The 3rd is the millenial kingdom in fulfillment of all the prophecies!
The fourth is the eternal kingdom.


No... you have just TWISTED Scripture (I am sure it was
not intentional).


(1) The first "Kingdom of Heaven" was the Pre-Flood Kingdom
containing all the Saints from Adam to Noah.


(2) The second "Kingdom of Heaven" was the Jewish Kingdom
[Mat 22:2] and you are INCORRECT when you say God only
"temporarily revoked", Notice the verse below is not temporary:

Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be
TAKEN from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth
the fruits thereof.

Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.


(3) The Third "Kingdom of Heaven" was the Christian Kingdom
during the Great Commission [Mat 13 in 8 verses]


(4) The Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" was the Great Tribulation
Kingdom [Mat 25:1]


While you may WISH otherwise, the 1000 yr. period was
never called a "Kingdom of Heaven" by Jesus and it does
not occur AFTER the Christian Kingdom or AFTER the Great
Tribulation Kingdom. After the Great Tribulation "Kingdom"
the Seventh Trumpet sounds, the resurrection occurs and
Satan and Death are destroyed.

You made the terrible mistake of not realizing the 1000 yr.
reign of Christ (and the Saints) was the Church Age.


So you FORGOT to include the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" that JESUS specifically NAMED
in Matthew 25:1-13

Obviously, your gospel cannot be Biblical when it OMITS
one of the "Kingdoms of Heaven" that Jesus specifically
NAMED in Scripture... or when it ADDS a "Kingdom" that
Jesus never named.

BTW... you claim the FIRST KINGDOM was the Jewish Kingdom.
Did you FORGET about all the saints from Adam to Noah?
Clearly the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" was the SECOND
Kingdom on earth (not the first). And, again, the 1000 yrs.
is the Great Commission of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".



.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Those kingdom names never came out of His mouth in ANY of the references you provide. They are made up by you or some other man/woman who misunderstands "dispensation".
"


Clearly ONE of us is correct and ONE of us has no idea what
they are talking about. You claim above (and I quote)

Those kingdom names never came out of His mouth in ANY of the references you provide. They are made up by you or some other man/woman who misunderstands "dispensation".


Lets put your statement to the TEST:


(1) As I claimed, JESUS specifically NAMED the Jewish

"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 22:2... please let me
know if YOUR BIBLE does not include these words:

Mat 22:2
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage for his son,

-----------


(2) As I claimed, JESUS specifically NAMED the Christian

"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 13 (in 8 verses)...
Please let me know if YOU BIBLE does not say this:

Mat 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,
that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

--------------


(3) As I said JESUS specifically NAMED the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 5:1.... Please let me know
if YOUR BIBLE does not include these words:

Mat 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

----------------


So you claimed (and I quote)
Those kingdom names never came out of His mouth
in ANY of the references you provide. They are made up
by you or some other man/woman who misunderstands
"dispensation".


Now... why in the world would you say such a thing when
I have QUOTED some of the passages where JESUS specifically

NAMES separate-and-distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" in which
EACH has it's own unique Gospel?


.
 
Upvote 0

kenneth558

Believer in the Invisible
Aug 1, 2003
745
22
65
Omaha, NE
Visit site
✟19,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Clearly ONE of us is correct and ONE of us has no idea what
they are talking about. You claim above (and I quote)

Those kingdom names never came out of His mouth in ANY of the references you provide. They are made up by you or some other man/woman who misunderstands "dispensation".


Lets put your statement to the TEST:


(1) As I claimed, JESUS specifically NAMED the Jewish

"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 22:2... please let me
know if YOUR BIBLE does not include these words:

Mat 22:2
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,

which made a marriage for his son,

-----------

(2) As I claimed, JESUS specifically NAMED the Christian

"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 13 (in 8 verses)...
Please let me know if YOU BIBLE does not say this:

Mat 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,

that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

--------------

(3) As I said JESUS specifically NAMED the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 5:1.... Please let me know
if YOUR BIBLE does not include these words:

Mat 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,

which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

----------------


So you claimed (and I quote)
Those kingdom names never came out of His mouth
in ANY of the references you provide. They are made up
by you or some other man/woman who misunderstands
"dispensation".


Now... why in the world would you say such a thing when
I have QUOTED some of the passages where JESUS specifically

NAMES separate-and-distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" in which
EACH has it's own unique Gospel?


.
Thank you for asking the right question!

A unique Gospel does not demand a distinct kingdom, or I'm sure I would have noticed the verse that says so. Let me wear out this verse: Dan 4:3 "his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom"

Revelation 14:6
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

Beware of any other Gospel: 2 Corinthians 11:4, Galatians 1:6, Galatians 1:7.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Ed Parenteau
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Dan 4:3 "his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom"


(1) I have already given SCRIPTURE where Jesus NAMED
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven"... so to quote
a verse that confirms that fact only supports my doctrine
it does not contradict anything I said.


(2) I have already given SCRIPTURE where Jesus NAMED
the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"...
so quoting a verse about the (5th) Eternal Kingdom
is just not relevant... it contradicts nothing.


(3) I have already given SCRIPTURE where Jesus NAMED
the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".. so quoting
a verse about the (5th) Eternal Kingdom is just
not relevant... and it contradicts nothing.


(4) I have already given SCRIPTURE where Jesus NAMED
the (2nd) Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"...so quoting
a verse about the (5th) Eternal Kingdom is just
not relevant.... and it contradicts nothing.


Here is what IS RELEVANT...


Jesus specifically NAMED each of these four (4)
separate-and-distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" can you
show were He DID NOT specifically NAME these Kingdoms?


If you cannot REFUTE any of these Kingdoms
that Jesus specifically NAMED... then you only show
that the doctrine is confirmed in Scripture and you need
to start preaching what Jesus specifically NAMED.


Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13 in 8 verses]
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


These verses are in YOUR BIBLE...
Are you preaching what YOUR BIBLE specifically NAMES?

If not... why not?


..
 
Upvote 0

kenneth558

Believer in the Invisible
Aug 1, 2003
745
22
65
Omaha, NE
Visit site
✟19,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
(1) I have already given SCRIPTURE where Jesus NAMED
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven"... so to quote
a verse that confirms that fact only supports my doctrine
it does not contradict anything I said.


(2) I have already given SCRIPTURE where Jesus NAMED
the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"...
so quoting a verse about the (5th) Eternal Kingdom
is just not relevant... it contradicts nothing.


(3) I have already given SCRIPTURE where Jesus NAMED
the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".. so quoting
a verse about the (5th) Eternal Kingdom is just
not relevant... and it contradicts nothing.


(4) I have already given SCRIPTURE where Jesus NAMED
the (2nd) Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"...so quoting
a verse about the (5th) Eternal Kingdom is just
not relevant.... and it contradicts nothing.


Here is what IS RELEVANT...
Jesus specifically NAMED each of these four (4)
separate-and-distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" can you
show were He DID NOT specifically NAME these Kingdoms?


If you cannot REFUTE any of these Kingdoms
that Jesus specifically NAMED... then you only show
that the doctrine is confirmed in Scripture and you need
to start preaching what Jesus specifically NAMED.


Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13 in 8 verses]
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


These verses are in YOUR BIBLE...
Are you preaching what YOUR BIBLE specifically NAMES?

If not... why not?


..
"these four (4) separate-and-distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" Jesus NEVER, EVER meant to imply that there is more than one kingdom of heaven, though there are MANY times the Bible states a single kingdom that God is king of. I emphasize "single tense" is always used of this kingdom. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. Can't you see that there are many, many times where "kingdom" would have been plural in the Bible if there were more than one kingdom that God is king of?
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"these four (4) separate-and-distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" Jesus NEVER, EVER meant to imply that there is more than one kingdom of heaven, though there are MANY times the Bible states a single kingdom that God is king of. I emphasize "single tense" is always used of this kingdom. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. Can't you see that there are many, many times where "kingdom" would have been plural in the Bible if there were more than one kingdom that God is king of?


You say that (and I quote)
"Jesus NEVER EVER meant to imply that there is more than
one kingdom of heaven".


What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 22:2
What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 13 (in 8 verses)
What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 25:1-13

Open YOUR BIBLE and see if JESUS NAMED
each of the "Kingdoms of Heaven" listed above.

BUT.... when you find them in YOUR BIBLE then
you have to stop saying "Jesus NEVER EVER meant
to imply there is more than one kingdom of heaven"

See... here is the problem:
I have just shown you SCRIPTURES that contradict
your Gospel... so you must PRETEND the Bible does
not say what it clearly says (in the verses above)


But it does not work like that.
The Scriptures are not NEGATED because this is
new information for you. How can you REJECT or
IGNORE what Jesus specifically NAMED in Scripture?

It's information the Bible PROMISED the Last Saints
"shall understand" [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10] and we
would preach.


Again, just tell me:

What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 22:2
What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 13 (in 8 verses)
What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 25:1-13


.
 
Upvote 0

kenneth558

Believer in the Invisible
Aug 1, 2003
745
22
65
Omaha, NE
Visit site
✟19,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 22:2
What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 13 (in 8 verses)
What "Kingdom of Heaven" is shown in Mat 25:1-13

These all refer to the same kingdom. It is the one God is king of. It is spoken of in Dan 4:3 and 4:34 and everywhere else the kingdom of God, kingdom of heaven, kingdom [come], "kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ", "the kingdom of our God", "the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ", "the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him", "a kingdom which cannot be moved", "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom", "at his appearing and his kingdom", "his heavenly kingdom", "the kingdom of his dear Son", "kingdom of Christ and of God", "My kingdom is not of this world", etc.

These all serve to emphasize my previous point that there are many opportunities the Bible has to use the term "kingdoms" plural but never once does it when referring to the eternal kingdom that God is king of. If you find something that forces us away from that simplicity, you have yet to be clear with it. Note that a misunderstanding of "dispensation" leads one to believe this or that truth expires, against Deut 29:29: "...those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever"

We need to get off dead center here or stop our bickering.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
These all refer to the same kingdom.
We need to get off dead center here or stop our bickering.


(1) First, I am not "bickering"... are you?


(2) Second, the PEOPLE who are shown in Matthew 22:2-7
Are the Jewish people. Notice that (a) they are called to the
wedding with the SON of the King but they did not come and
they are DESTROYED in v7. Please tell me WHEN was God's
Kingdom destroyed? Of course the answer is NEVER... but
(b) the Jewish Kingdom was destroyed in Mat 22:7 and here:


Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God
shall be TAKEN from you, [taken from the Jews] and
GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[given to the Christians]

Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.


I am very sorry that you cannot or will not see that the
"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 22:2-7 is the Jewish
Kingdom and the "Kingdom of God" in Mat 21:43 is also
the Jewish Kingdom. The Priests and Pharisees knew it.


(3) Third, the PEOPLE who are the subject in Mat 22:8-14
are the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" who REPLACED the
Jewish Kingdom in chapter 22 and in Mat 21:43 (above)
I am very sorry that you cannot or will not see that the
Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" is DIFFERENT than the
Jewish Kingdom... even though they had different Gospels.


(4) Finally, the PEOPLE who are the subject of Mat 25:1-13
are the people living in the Great Tribulation... they are the
"Kingdom of Heaven" on earth when the Lord Returns and
they are DIFFERENT from the Jewish Kingdom and from the
Christian Kingdom - because the Great Tribulation Kingdom
could not start until the Great Commission was finished and
all the lost sheep were found and saved.


So... to TEST your theory that each of these Kingdoms are
the SAME KINGDOM we see that (a) the first Kingdom named
was DESTROYED in Matthew 22:7 and it was TAKEN from the
Jews in Matthew 21:43. So that proves your theory wrong.


Then the Christian people were GIVEN the "Kingdom of God"
in Mat 21:43.... so that proves your theory wrong again.


Then the Kingdom of Matthew 25:1-13 occurs AFTER the end
of the Great Commission, after the "testimony" of the church
is "finished" and ends with the Lord's Return. Since the Lord
did not Return in the Jewish Kingdom your theory is proven
wrong a third time.


Now (a) it is not "bickering" to show you these are three
DIFFERENT Kingdoms with three DIFFERENT Gospels. You
do not have to accept what the Scripture says... but, unless
you want to argue the "Kingdom of Heaven" was DESTROYED
in Matthew 22:7 or you want to argue the "Kingdom of God"
was not TAKEN from the Jews and GIVEN to the Christians
in Matthew 21:43... then your "theory" is proven wrong
twice (and that is not even counting the Great Tribulation)


I am sorry that you cannot accept what the Bible teaches
in these verses. I understand (a) it is new information to you
and (b) it destroys your current gospel. But there is no way
you can logically or historically or Biblically show the Jewish
Kingdom, Christian Kingdom and Great Tribulation Kingdom
were all the SAME Kingdom.


I am done talking about this subject with you.
Please feel free to believe whatever you want.


Jim

.
 
Upvote 0

nolidad

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 2, 2006
6,762
1,269
69
onj this planet
✟221,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Clearly ONE of us is correct and ONE of us has no idea what
they are talking about. You claim above (and I quote)

Those kingdom names never came out of His mouth in ANY of the references you provide. They are made up by you or some other man/woman who misunderstands "dispensation".


Lets put your statement to the TEST:


(1) As I claimed, JESUS specifically NAMED the Jewish

"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 22:2... please let me
know if YOUR BIBLE does not include these words:

Mat 22:2
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,

which made a marriage for his son,

-----------

(2) As I claimed, JESUS specifically NAMED the Christian

"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 13 (in 8 verses)...
Please let me know if YOU BIBLE does not say this:

Mat 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,

that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

--------------

(3) As I said JESUS specifically NAMED the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 5:1.... Please let me know
if YOUR BIBLE does not include these words:

Mat 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,

which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

----------------


So you claimed (and I quote)
Those kingdom names never came out of His mouth
in ANY of the references you provide. They are made up
by you or some other man/woman who misunderstands
"dispensation".


Now... why in the world would you say such a thing when
I have QUOTED some of the passages where JESUS specifically

NAMES separate-and-distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" in which
EACH has it's own unique Gospel?


.

Well this is not the forum to give the extreme lengthy responses why you are mistaken. Physical Israel was not the kingdom of God. Jesus came to offer the kingdom to Israel - the Messianic kingdom promised in the OT.

Eadrth from Adam to Noah was not Gods kingdom either.

Right now we are living in the mystery form of the kingdom (as Jesus spoke of in the parables)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Well this is not the forum to give the extreme lengthy responses why you are mistaken. Physical Israel was not the kingdom of God. Jesus came to offer the kingdom to Israel - the Messianic kingdom promised in the OT.

Eadrth from Adam to Noah was not Gods kingdom either.

Right now we are living in the mystery form of the kingdom (as Jesus spoke of in the parables)


But, of course, the fact is that the CONTEXT of what JESUS
called the "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 22:2 and what
He called the "Kingdom of God" in Matthew 21:43 was the
Jewish People. There can be no doubt about that.

And the CONTEXT of what JESUS called the "Kingdom of Heaven"
in Matthew 13 (in 8 verses) was the Christian People. Again,
there can be no doubt about that.

And the CONTEXT of what JESUS called the "Kingdom of Heaven"
in Matthew 25:1 is the People living in the Great Tribulation...
again, there can be no doubt about that.

I admit that Jesus never called the Pre-Flood people by the
term "Kingdom of Heaven" but we know they were separate
and distinct people (with a different Gospel) just like the Jews
and Christians and Great Tribulation saints.

I am sorry that you cannot see this reality...
but I am only REPEATING the Words of Christ and
applying them to the PEOPLE that He was speaking of.

I assume (by your comment) that you have a long and
detailed understanding of WHAT the "Kingdom of Heaven"
means... and I do not dispute (a) the Eternal Kingdom which
Jesus named MANY times in the Bible and (b) that EACH of
these temporal "Kingdoms" are PART of God's salvation plan.

But there can be no dispute (a) these temporal "Kingdoms"
contained unsaved people (which the Eternal Kingdom does not)
and JESUS specifically NAMED them "Kingdoms of Heaven"... and
we have to accept the Words of Christ.

Jim
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Physical Israel was not the kingdom of God.


Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God
shall be TAKEN from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth
the fruits thereof.


Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.


.
 
Upvote 0

kenneth558

Believer in the Invisible
Aug 1, 2003
745
22
65
Omaha, NE
Visit site
✟19,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Matt. 19:23-24:
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Please stop the fictitious naming of any other kingdoms that God is king of. Thank you.

P.S. I was taught in my youth the very type of dlispensational teachings you believe. I used to believe them merely because that was my heritage. Now I realize that by letting go of what disagrees with God's words, I am credited righteousness for believing God in simplicity. Neither you nor dispensational preachers can offer me that. I'm staying put. Over and out.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Please stop the fictitious naming of any other kingdoms that God is king of. Thank you.
.

Please STOP accusing ME of things that JESUS SAID
I really could not care less whether you LIKE what Jesus said,
or whether you ACCEPT what Jesus said... but please be
honest enough to STOP pretending that these are not
the Words of Jesus. They are in YOUR BIBLE.


(1) About the Jewish people Jesus said:

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage for his son,

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God
shall be TAKEN from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth
the fruits thereof.


(2) About the Christian people Jesus said:

Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,
that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:


(3) About the Great Tribulation people Jesus said:

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened
unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth
to meet the bridegroom.


Before you accuse me of making things up...
Take the time to open YOUR BIBLE and read the verses
quoted above (and there are MANY more examples).
They are not my words... this is what JESUS SAID

.
 
Upvote 0

nolidad

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 2, 2006
6,762
1,269
69
onj this planet
✟221,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
And the CONTEXT of what JESUS called the "Kingdom of Heaven"
in Matthew 13 (in 8 verses) was the Christian People. Again,
there can be no doubt about that.

Close! It is not Christians but Christendom! This is what many call "thee mystery form of teh kingdom". It is expounded in the parables. Christians do not have dirty birds steal the seed. etc.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

nolidad

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 2, 2006
6,762
1,269
69
onj this planet
✟221,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
.

Please STOP accusing ME of things that JESUS SAID
I really could not care less whether you LIKE what Jesus said,
or whether you ACCEPT what Jesus said... but please be
honest enough to STOP pretending that these are not
the Words of Jesus. They are in YOUR BIBLE.


(1) About the Jewish people Jesus said:

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage for his son,

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God
shall be TAKEN from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth
the fruits thereof.


(2) About the Christian people Jesus said:

Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,
that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:


(3) About the Great Tribulation people Jesus said:

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened
unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth
to meet the bridegroom.


Before you accuse me of making things up...
Take the time to open YOUR BIBLE and read the verses
quoted above (and there are MANY more examples).
They are not my words... this is what JESUS SAID

.

Your biggest error is concluding that everytime the kingdom is mentioned, it is another different kingdom of heaven! It is not, it is just another form of the kingdom until the kingdom as declared in its perfection is come to pass when Jesus returns!

I have read my bible many many times over and have taught eschatology which involves most of these verses in bible College and churches for over 25 years! I have seen and read too many different opinions of what it means..

Also you need to know that when Matthew ( a Jew) write His gospel, He substituted "heaven" for "god" in nearly all these verses. In deference to not offend Jewish people who still at the time would not say God!

But the Kingdom of Heaven ultimately is the Millenial or Messianic Kingdom! The mystery form is the church, born at Pentecost and is being gathered from around the world!

The virgins are the rapture! Matt. 25 is almost exclusively the church age up to the rapture!
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Close! It is not Christians but Christendom! This is what many call "thee mystery form of teh kingdom". It is expounded in the parables. Christians do not have dirty birds steal the seed. etc.


Really?
What PEOPLE make-up "Christendom"?
Could it be.... "Christians"?


There is no way around the fact that (in 8 different verses)
in Matthew 13 Jesus specifically NAMED the Christian Kingdom
as being the "Kingdom of Heaven".


Just as there is no way around the fact that Jesus specifically
NAMED the Jewish Kingdom both the "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 22:2] and the "Kingdom of God" [Mat 21:43]


Just as there is no way around the fact that Jesus specifically
NAMED the Great Tribulation period a "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]


May I respectfully ask WHY do you want to deny what Jesus
specifically NAMED? Do you view these Words of Christ as
a threat to your Gospel? Or do you just not want to accept
what Jesus said because this is NEW INFORMATION to you?


I find it hard to understand WHY this is difficult for some to
accept when (a) they can read Jesus' Words in their Bible and
(b) they can confirm the first THREE "Kingdoms of Heaven"
in history (aka, reality).


Remember, I do not dispute the Bible teaches a (5th) ETERNAL
"Kingdom of Heaven", which occurs after the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]. So I see no reason for you
to object to the fact the Jewish Kingdom existed and, after that,
the Christian Kingdom existed.


Can you explain to me WHY you do not want to accept what
Jesus specifically NAMED in Scripture?

Jim

.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Your biggest error is concluding that everytime the kingdom is mentioned, it is another different kingdom of heaven! It is not, it is just another form of the kingdom until the kingdom as declared in its perfection is come to pass when Jesus returns!


No, there is no error in understanding WHO was the subject
of the verses I quoted.


When Jesus was talking about the Jewish PEOPLE and called
their period a "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2] and then, as
He was talking about the Christian PEOPLE He called their age
the "Kingdom of Heaven"... there can be no doubt that Jesus
was talking about DIFFERENT "Kingdoms of Heaven". Notice
the verses below:


Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be
TAKEN from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth
the fruits thereof.

Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.


Now... you can PRETEND the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"
was the SAME Kingdom as the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"
but you know they had (a) different Gospels and (b) occurred at
different times and (c) they included different people.


And WHAT do you do with Matthew 21:43 (above)...
where Jesus specifically says the "Kingdom of God" will be
TAKEN from the Jews and GIVEN to the Christians?


I understand this Biblical reality is difficult for you to accept.
But it is clear that Jesus NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"
and He NAMED the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" and He
NAMED the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" and
He NAMED the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".


There is just no way around this Biblical reality...
you can read it in your own Bible.

.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I have read my bible many many times over and have taught eschatology which involves most of these verses in bible College and churches for over 25 years! I have seen and read too many different opinions of what it means..


If you have studied eschatology then you will know that the
Bible PROMISED the Last Saints "shall understand" mysteries
that remained "closed-up" and "sealed" to all previous Saints
[Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]


And these Last Saints shall PREACH these Biblical mysteries
as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]


What I am showing you about the four "Kingdoms of Heaven"
on earth before the Lord Returns to establish the (5th) Eternal
"Kingdom of Heaven" is just PART of the mysteries of Daniel's
prophecies that God PROMISED would remain "sealed" until
preached by the Last Saints.


That is WHY you cannot find anything in the Bible to refute
these Biblical mysteries... because they are Biblical Truths.


Jim
.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Also you need to know that when Matthew ( a Jew) write His gospel, He substituted "heaven" for "god" in nearly all these verses. In deference to not offend Jewish people who still at the time would not say God!


--------------------------------------------------------

The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33)
times in the Bible and every time the phrase represents
the many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat",
associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom"
(the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth...
or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".

-------------------------------------------------------------

The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal
Kingdoms... and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of
each, with the "Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins"
living during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]

---------------------------------------------------------

The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times
in the Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God
and/or the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat"
who have been regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.
To be clear, the "Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of
the "Kingdom of Heaven" since it only includes the saved
"wheat", and not the unsaved "tares".

---------------------------------

Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably
when it focuses only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom.
When focused only on the "wheat", the Bible can use
"Kingdom of Heaven" OR "Kingdom of God". And that
is why we have several parallel passages in the Bible
that can (and do) interchange these two phrases.

-----------------------------------


.
 
Upvote 0