A simple command

shilohsfoal

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The Beast is the Antichrist and does no such thing! Everytime the "end" appears it doesn't mean last days! context determines time and here it is the time of the end of Antiochus reign! All you need do is read a history of Antiochus (Epiphanes) and his conquests, wars and death and you see it fulfills Daniel 11 fully!

You honesty believe the resurrection took place at the end of Antiochus reign?
Are you kidding me?You have Fallen off your rocker.

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.


That would put the resurrection at 164 bc.
You have fallen off your rocker.
 
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nolidad

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If you want to refute the Scripture I quoted explaining that horn signifies power. You need to show us the Scripture that says otherwise. You have not done it yet. Just personal rants filled with false accusations against me for "over-spiritualizing." In other words, you do not receive God's Word, word for word, that I testified.

And you fall short yet again!
Daniel 7:
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Daniel 8:
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

In this case--horns are kings both of the third and fourth gentile kingdoms of the time of the gentiles!
 
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Tinymouse5

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I know you want to believe the two witnesses are old testiment prophets but it's very unlikely God would bring back the law and the prophets. He's moved on from that.

Luke 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

These two witnesses are christians. They may not be very good at it but Christian no less.


Your posts are very interesting and thought provoking shilohsfoal.

One Question - How much experience did Moses have when God called him to Service? How much of the Bible was he familiar with and how experienced was he. Was he any good at the start or was the distinguishing feature of Moses "success" not God himself?

Forgive me for this - but I find some of your post a little arrogant. The old saying is Pride comes before a fall. Sin gives the Enemy a foothold. Your knowledge is very good but that little thing called pride will try and exalt your opinion over every one else.

He who Boast should boast in the Lord

Much here shilohsfoal - if you are willing to listen that is.

Tiny
 
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TribulationSigns

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There was always a human king and always will be a human king who becomes the horn

False. God does not represents the horn with a nation, empire or human king. He already told us that the horn represent power of whatever is in view. I provided you a Scripture proof. Enough said.

The Word of God Himself tells us that the horns represent (human) kings:-

"And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another (king) shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he (the king symbolized by the horn)) shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and plot to change times and laws. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time.

But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end."
(Dan 7:24-26).

Here is another biblical lesson for you.

In the Bible, horns signify power (Daniel 8:7), the number 10 signifies its fullness, and they are kings illustrating their rule. Kings do NOT symbolize that they are human princes, presidents, leaders, or prime ministers of any political nation. So pay attention... they are the RULES of the beast through the fullness of the time of the end. They have enmity against Christ and His Saints all over the world, wherever the camps (churches) of the Saints are,, not the political nation of Israel or whatever.

The different countries of the world are not wearing out (causing affliction to) the saints AS PROPHESIED! Rather it is the false christs, false prophets, man of sin, and his minions. Of course, many countries are persecuting Christians somewhere, but that has always been the case. But the Great Tribulation "FOR" the Church/Saints is something far more sinister and dangerous than beatings, killing, etc.

It is a spiritual deception so great that if the days weren't shortened, there would be no flesh left on earth to be saved for the rapture of the church in the end. When Revelation 17 says the 10 horns have received no kingdom yet, it is declaring they have not come to rule yet, but ONLY AFTER the beast is loosed that he gives his power to them as is illustrated in Revelation.

But if you want to keep looking at political nations or states or countries or MAN, instead of allowing the Bible to interpret itself, you will never have any understanding of prophecies. Selah!

"Then I lifted up my eyes, and looked. And behold, a ram with two horns stood before the Canal having two horns, and the two horns were high, but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last."
(Dan 8:3)

I see that you have failed to answer my questions earlier about the ram and he-goat. Not surprised.

As I said, the he-goat represents the Kingdom of Satan, with the horns representing his power to rule.
The two horns or power of the Kingdom of Christ, symbolized by the Ram. Those two power represents the power of the Old Testament Congregation of Israel, and the New Testament Congregation of Israel, the church. They are the two congregations representing the Kingdom of the Ram on Earth. So it is not all about Israel, as was the power of the other horn. That is the greater power of the Ram Kingdom, the church. She is greater and come up last after the cross. As it is written:

Haggai 2:9
[9] The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts

Deuteronomy 9:13
[13] "Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they".

John 14:12
[12]"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father".

The church has greater power, the greater nation, the greater horn that comes up last! Becasue she is filled with Holy Spirit to go into the whole world with such power to save many more people. This is the nation that brings forth fruits. Didn't you read the Scripture?

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

It is the New Testament Congregation that receive greater power after the Cross to build a church. This is where she bringing forth the fruits.

While blindness has happened to Old Testament Israel, New Testament Israel has grown and brought in countless souls from the whole world to the throne of Grace by the power of the Kingdom.

Selah!

"The ram which you saw having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the shaggy goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king."
(Dan 8:20-21).

This is a symbolic language like in Revelation. It goes back to the ruler of Persia being those who will rule God's people (the Ram), and at this time the goat will come with choler against him, and smite the ram and brake his two horns, which is reminiscent of the power of the two witnesses. The Prince of Persia represents the rules in God's congregation that stand against Daniel, who represents God's Chosen. Daniel associates this time of great trouble where the ruler of Persia stands against him as a time when Michael (Christ) will stand up for Him (God's people). He will stand up for those who the Prince of Persia has stood against.

The Word of God Himself tells us that the horns represent (human) kings.

No, He didn't. You are the one who is confused what the "kings" are. You thought they are human kings.

Again, the 10 horns are symbolic and thus illustrating certain characteristics or aspects. They are not actual horns, nor actual physical kings, they merely represent some aspect of these people. Namely, the horns represent they have been given power and the symbol of a king "represents" their rule. Q.E.D., power to reign. Likewise with the image and likeness of a beast is symbolic of the wicked ruling power at the time when the spirit of Satan is loosed. Again, it's 10 horns and 10 kings to symbolize power and rule. It doesn't mean the horns signify they are human kings, or the kings symbolize they are powers. Symbols point to something characteristic. The Heads/Horns/Mountains/Kings imagery symbolizes the authority and power to rule this wicked kingdom. vis-a-vis, kings symbolize their rule, horns their power, heads their authority, and mountains their kingdom. You seem to be looking at it as if the horns are actual kings, when the horns signify power and the kings signify rule. As in Daniel gives the image of four great beasts and says they are four kings. It didn't mean the kings were actual beasts, four empires, or four human men, only that beasts symbolized some characteristics of their rule.

I don't expect anyone to understand if they do not have the spirit of Christ (spiritual wisdom) to be able to spiritually discerned what God talked about.

Have a good day! Selah!
 
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shilohsfoal

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Your posts are very interesting and thought provoking shilohsfoal.

One Question - How much experience did Moses have when God called him to Service? How much of the Bible was he familiar with and how experienced was he. Was he any good at the start or was the distinguishing feature of Moses "success" not God himself?

Forgive me for this - but I find some of your post a little arrogant. The old saying is Pride comes before a fall. Sin gives the Enemy a foothold. Your knowledge is very good but that little thing called pride will try and exalt your opinion over every one else.

He who Boast should boast in the Lord

Much here shilohsfoal - if you are willing to listen that is.

Tiny

There is another old saying.
You reap what you sow.

The two witnesses sow torture.
What do you think they will reap?

It is what it is. Some might say I'm arrogant others say I'm honest. However you take it is how you take it.
 
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Timtofly

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I'm not taking one verse out of context. I'm saying this verse is about the context which is Daniels prophecy

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

Fact is the Pharisees were wrong and Christ is right.
The wicked Pharisees taught that the abomination of desolation was placed in 167 bc.
Jesus said that it had not been placed yet in the gospel.

You claim the wicked Pharisees sect understand Daniels prophecy. God say NONE OF THE WICKED SHALL UNDERSTAND.

Now you claim I'm taking the verse out of context because you believe the same thing the wicked Pharisees sect believes. It's your choice to believe the Pharisees Insted of studying to find thier error.
Its your choice.
Matthew 24:15 KJV: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Matthew 24:16 KJV: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matthew 24:17 KJV: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18 KJV: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matthew 24:19 KJV: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matthew 24:20 KJV: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matthew 24:21 KJV: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Daniel 12:2 KJV: And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
I simply said both are right. Where is your text that says Jesus denied or refuted the 167 BC event? The same thing is going to happen a second time in history. That is what John points out in Revelation 13. Saying it never happened in 167 BC, does not prove anything. Past history does not prevent a future event.
 
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shilohsfoal

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I simply said both are right. Where is your text that says Jesus denied or refuted the 167 BC event? The same thing is going to happen a second time in history. That is what John points out in Revelation 13. Saying it never happened in 167 BC, does not prove anything. Past history does not prevent a future event.

Jesus refutes it here.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

Note Jesus said abomination that causes desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel.
It's singular, meaning there is one.

Now the biggest problem the Pharisees had was they didn't listen to Jesus so they didn't know better.
If they had paid much attention to Jesus they would have learned the resurrection takes place the exact same day the abomination of desolation is placed by our armed forces.
In fact the cloud the two witnesses ascend into heaven in is from the abomination of desolation.
So you believe the resurrection Daniel spoke of took place in 167 bc or do believe it took place at Antiochus death in 164 bc?

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
 
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nolidad

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Well if you had simply asked the question that would be fine! But then committing the sin of presumptiousness by saying I believe that the resurrection has already taken place makes you appear so very juvenile!

If you want to know what I think ask-don't presume! I will answer honestly. But when you presume to know my thoughts- the bible calls that witchcraft!
 
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shilohsfoal

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Well if you had simply asked the question that would be fine! But then committing the sin of presumptiousness by saying I believe that the resurrection has already taken place makes you appear so very juvenile!

If you want to know what I think ask-don't presume! I will answer honestly. But when you presume to know my thoughts- the bible calls that witchcraft!

You already said the end of the chapter is Antiochus death which was in 164 bc. Daniel says the resurrection takes place at the time of that king of the norths death. PERIOD.
That means you must believe the resurrection Daniel is speaking of took place in 164bc.
Yes you've fallen off your rocker

Daniel 11:45 He will pitch his royal tents between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain, but he will meet his end with no one to help him."
Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Now do you see what happens when you believe the Pharisees?
 
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nolidad

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Explained and you remained refuted. Read my previous post!

I did and the bible declares you are absolutely wrong! Why do you insist on saying these horns are anything other than what the bible declares them to be? That is just sheer foolishness!
 
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nolidad

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Your insulting makes you sound like a petulant little child! You really should stop!

YOu seem to forget that the Anitchrist(beast, 11th horn man of lawlessness, son of perdition, etc.) does not die! He gathers the worlds armies at the end to do battle with Jesus ! The whole worlds armies!!!!!

Jesus returns, does battle with him and casts him alive into the lake of fire! At teh time of the end of his reign (right before Jesus returns) he is not busy fighting a ruler from th esouth, east and north! Daniel 12 starts a new thought! How do we know? Because when we take the whole coundsel fo Gods Word about prophetic events, we know for certainty that teh anitchrist is not depicted in Chapter 11.

You should also know that the phrase "at that time" is not in the Hebrew. It is simply "time" Everything else was added to seek to make English sense. It is far easier to say and at the time,. there is no definite article in Hebrew but the word does have a hebrew counterpart which is not present in Dan.12.

See this takes more study than a cursory look and drawing conclusions that are inaccurate!
 
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shilohsfoal

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Your insulting makes you sound like a petulant little child! You really should stop!

YOu seem to forget that the Anitchrist(beast, 11th horn man of lawlessness, son of perdition, etc.) does not die! He gathers the worlds armies at the end to do battle with Jesus ! The whole worlds armies!!!!!

Jesus returns, does battle with him and casts him alive into the lake of fire! At teh time of the end of his reign (right before Jesus returns) he is not busy fighting a ruler from th esouth, east and north! Daniel 12 starts a new thought! How do we know? Because when we take the whole coundsel fo Gods Word about prophetic events, we know for certainty that teh anitchrist is not depicted in Chapter 11.

You should also know that the phrase "at that time" is not in the Hebrew. It is simply "time" Everything else was added to seek to make English sense. It is far easier to say and at the time,. there is no definite article in Hebrew but the word does have a hebrew counterpart which is not present in Dan.12.

See this takes more study than a cursory look and drawing conclusions that are inaccurate!

Yeap, you see your error and wont admit but so you change your story.
Still think this is Antiochus?

Daniel 11:45 He will pitch his royal tents between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain, but he will meet his end with no one to help him."

You sound like your backtracking.
You realize your error.

You not worth the time.
Muting you.
 
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TribulationSigns

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YOu seem to forget that the Anitchrist(beast, 11th horn man of lawlessness, son of perdition, etc.) does not die! He gathers the worlds armies at the end to do battle with Jesus ! The whole worlds armies!!!!!

Forget? Hardly! All I see is your speculaton based on your private interpretation of God's Word.

"The whole world's armies!!!" coming with guns and missiles at Christ and his armies? LOL. You totally misunderstood the nature of the battle which is SPIRITUAL! It is a battle between people of God with the Word of God against people with spirit of antichrist. It is fought with WORDS! Not physical guns and missiles. It is not a physical battle at one location of the Earth, but all over the world where Churches are - the camps of the Saints. It is the enemy's words that brought Church into apostasy and finally to desolate. You are looking at wrong place and got wrong Israel to begin with on top of your fantasy supernatural man!

Jesus returns, does battle with him and casts him alive into the lake of fire!

Oh, You think there will be a physical battle between the antichrist's army and Christ's army with guns and missiles coming from armies of the Earth? Yeah, right. Maybe you are the one who needs to stop watching science fiction films and start studying your Scripture! :)

At teh time of the end of his reign (right before Jesus returns) he is not busy fighting a ruler from th esouth, east and north! Daniel 12 starts a new thought! How do we know? Because when we take the whole coundsel fo Gods Word about prophetic events, we know for certainty that teh anitchrist is not depicted in Chapter 11.

You should also know that the phrase "at that time" is not in the Hebrew. It is simply "time" Everything else was added to seek to make English sense. It is far easier to say and at the time,. there is no definite article in Hebrew but the word does have a hebrew counterpart which is not present in Dan.12.

See this takes more study than a cursory look and drawing conclusions that are inaccurate!

Uh, sorry, you do not make any sense here. I noticed that you did not even offer chapter and verse of scripture to refute to the Scripture I quoted. And you did not allow Scripture to be its own interpreter, only your imaginations and speculations! I doubt you know the whole counsel of God's Word because you have not shown us how you compare Scripture with Scripture. Just your emotional rants based on wild vision of the physical battle like what you said above...
 
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TribulationSigns

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I did and the bible declares you are absolutely wrong!

With what? Your emotional rants or Word of God?

Why do you insist on saying these horns are anything other than what the bible declares them to be?

Well, I was the one who has shown you the Scripture where God defined horn as power. Where are you? None of the verses you did quote implies that horn is a man. Only because you misunderstood with the word, "kings" being human men. :)
 
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Timtofly

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Jesus refutes it here.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

Note Jesus said abomination that causes desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel.
It's singular, meaning there is one.

Now the biggest problem the Pharisees had was they didn't listen to Jesus so they didn't know better.
If they had paid much attention to Jesus they would have learned the resurrection takes place the exact same day the abomination of desolation is placed by our armed forces.
In fact the cloud the two witnesses ascend into heaven in is from the abomination of desolation.
So you believe the resurrection Daniel spoke of took place in 167 bc or do believe it took place at Antiochus death in 164 bc?

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
It is the same abomination. Jesus had not come yet. Why are you conflating one point with 3 other points? I am only talking about the abomination. Your own future prophecy may not even happen, then what will you do? You accuse the Pharisees of "getting it wrong". Are your own expectations any more reliable than their's?

I never claimed the whole of Daniel's events have been fulfilled. I am not even a Preterist. Daniel's 70th week started in Oct. of last year. The seals are currently being opened. There is no pre-trib rapture, because it happens when the 6th seal is opened. The church will be complete at that time. There will only be 144K Jewish male virgins left on earth as part of the church. Any in Christ after the 7th seal, will be resurrected on the Monday of the start of the 1000 year reign of Christ. If the Second Coming week gets interrupted by Satan, God will send 2 literal human witnesses to judge those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life. They will convince some to be strong and accept their heads be cut off. This abomination will be the start of 3.5 years of Great Abomination. This is not a time of life. It is the time of total death.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Daniel's 70th week started in Oct. of last year. The seals are currently being opened. There is no pre-trib rapture, because it happens when the 6th seal is opened. The church will be complete at that time. There will only be 144K Jewish male virgins left on earth as part of the church. Any in Christ after the 7th seal, will be resurrected on the Monday of the start of the 1000 year reign of Christ. If the Second Coming week gets interrupted by Satan, God will send 2 literal human witnesses to judge those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life. They will convince some to be strong and accept their heads be cut off. This abomination will be the start of 3.5 years of Great Abomination. This is not a time of life. It is the time of total death.

Seriously?!

WcPJ.gif
 
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shilohsfoal

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It is the same abomination. Jesus had not come yet. Why are you conflating one point with 3 other points? I am only talking about the abomination. Your own future prophecy may not even happen, then what will you do? You accuse the Pharisees of "getting it wrong". Are your own expectations any more reliable than their's?

I never claimed the whole of Daniel's events have been fulfilled. I am not even a Preterist. Daniel's 70th week started in Oct. of last year. The seals are currently being opened. There is no pre-trib rapture, because it happens when the 6th seal is opened. The church will be complete at that time. There will only be 144K Jewish male virgins left on earth as part of the church. Any in Christ after the 7th seal, will be resurrected on the Monday of the start of the 1000 year reign of Christ. If the Second Coming week gets interrupted by Satan, God will send 2 literal human witnesses to judge those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life. They will convince some to be strong and accept their heads be cut off. This abomination will be the start of 3.5 years of Great Abomination. This is not a time of life. It is the time of total death.

It's not my prophecy.Im not Jesus. Jesus said its future. If you rather follow the Pharisees teaching you can. I prefer to believe Christ.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

You don't have to believe Christ if you don't want.
 
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Dec 19, 2017
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Holding up the wrong signs are ye? I don't laugh at people's post. It is a serious time to be alive. So, seriously, yes. I take my job seriously.

Oh? You take "your job" seriously?

Did you study Scripture, rightly dividing the Word of Truth, 2nd Timothy 2:15? Did you compare Scripture with Scripture and allow it to be its own interpreter instead selling us your personal interpretations or opinions? I can see that your posts were all filled with ramblings of your private interpretation without single Scripture support lately.

You said that Daniel's 70th week started last October? Seriously?

It is seriously dangerous to declare something when God did not say.
 
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