Disagreements in society ...

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This is posted in the Eastern Orthodox congregational forum. Others welcome to post but please be aware of where you are.

I hoped to get some thoughts on something - I hope I’m able to express this.

The world has gone crazy. I have a number of family members and friends I keep up with through Facebook.

People seem to be disagreeing on everything! We should be wearing masks - we shouldn’t be wearing masks. Trump is great - Trump is evil. Corona is getting better - it’s getting worse. The protests are good and necessary - the protests are evil and have an agenda. The NWO is taking over. Coronavirus is a hoax. The government is trying to destroy the Church. The Church is oppressive (this from Christians). We should be on lockdown. We shouldn’t restrict anything. And many other topics.

People have always had differing opinions. But when did we become THIS intolerant of disagreement and view anyone with a different opinion as an enemy? And with so many volatile topics - any two people are bound to disagree on something, so that makes us all enemies to some degree?

I wonder if the stress of what we’ve been dealing with has led to this? Conflicting information from the media hasn’t helped. FB is becoming poison, but it’s honestly where my far-flung family “gathers” and the only way it seems possible.

I’m certainly not immune. I’m just as guilty. I’m surprised when a family member strongly expresses an opinion I very much disagree with, and “thought they would be smarter than that”. I’m disappointed when Christians I’ve been friends with for well over a decade attack me for what the Church believes, or for a statement of fact I make which their assessment disagrees with.

I don’t know. I feel tired by it all. To be honest, I barely mention anything related to any volatile topic. I certainly do not crusade. I try to be gentle, and mostly just avoid conflict. But I’m tired, tired, tired by it all. It’s easier to talk only to people I don’t really know who never discuss anything more than a group focus like cute cats or a game board.

Any thoughts?
 

Dansiph

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This is posted in the Eastern Orthodox congregational forum. Others welcome to post but please be aware of where you are.

I hoped to get some thoughts on something - I hope I’m able to express this.

The world has gone crazy. I have a number of family members and friends I keep up with through Facebook.

People seem to be disagreeing on everything! We should be wearing masks - we shouldn’t be wearing masks. Trump is great - Trump is evil. Corona is getting better - it’s getting worse. The protests are good and necessary - the protests are evil and have an agenda. The NWO is taking over. Coronavirus is a hoax. The government is trying to destroy the Church. The Church is oppressive (this from Christians). We should be on lockdown. We shouldn’t restrict anything. And many other topics.

People have always had differing opinions. But when did we become THIS intolerant of disagreement and view anyone with a different opinion as an enemy? And with so many volatile topics - any two people are bound to disagree on something, so that makes us all enemies to some degree?

I wonder if the stress of what we’ve been dealing with has led to this? Conflicting information from the media hasn’t helped. FB is becoming poison, but it’s honestly where my far-flung family “gathers” and the only way it seems possible.

I’m certainly not immune. I’m just as guilty. I’m surprised when a family member strongly expresses an opinion I very much disagree with, and “thought they would be smarter than that”. I’m disappointed when Christians I’ve been friends with for well over a decade attack me for what the Church believes, or for a statement of fact I make which their assessment disagrees with.

I don’t know. I feel tired by it all. To be honest, I barely mention anything related to any volatile topic. I certainly do not crusade. I try to be gentle, and mostly just avoid conflict. But I’m tired, tired, tired by it all. It’s easier to talk only to people I don’t really know who never discuss anything more than a group focus like cute cats or a game board.

Any thoughts?
I disagree!

Just kidding. Lots of this is true, I've made a decision from today to try and avoid unncessary arguments, especially on here. The thing is I need help discerning what is necessary and what isn't. Contending for the faith is real and something to take note of is no matter how you say something people can still get offended.
 
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This is posted in the Eastern Orthodox congregational forum. Others welcome to post but please be aware of where you are.

I hoped to get some thoughts on something - I hope I’m able to express this.

The world has gone crazy. I have a number of family members and friends I keep up with through Facebook.

People seem to be disagreeing on everything! We should be wearing masks - we shouldn’t be wearing masks. Trump is great - Trump is evil. Corona is getting better - it’s getting worse. The protests are good and necessary - the protests are evil and have an agenda. The NWO is taking over. Coronavirus is a hoax. The government is trying to destroy the Church. The Church is oppressive (this from Christians). We should be on lockdown. We shouldn’t restrict anything. And many other topics.

People have always had differing opinions. But when did we become THIS intolerant of disagreement and view anyone with a different opinion as an enemy? And with so many volatile topics - any two people are bound to disagree on something, so that makes us all enemies to some degree?

I wonder if the stress of what we’ve been dealing with has led to this? Conflicting information from the media hasn’t helped. FB is becoming poison, but it’s honestly where my far-flung family “gathers” and the only way it seems possible.

I’m certainly not immune. I’m just as guilty. I’m surprised when a family member strongly expresses an opinion I very much disagree with, and “thought they would be smarter than that”. I’m disappointed when Christians I’ve been friends with for well over a decade attack me for what the Church believes, or for a statement of fact I make which their assessment disagrees with.

I don’t know. I feel tired by it all. To be honest, I barely mention anything related to any volatile topic. I certainly do not crusade. I try to be gentle, and mostly just avoid conflict. But I’m tired, tired, tired by it all. It’s easier to talk only to people I don’t really know who never discuss anything more than a group focus like cute cats or a game board.

Any thoughts?
I hear ya. That's why I don't really engage with anyone on facebook, though I browse there often. Even when I write and post my rambling blogs in which I throw my own two cents into the mix, I don't make anyone aware that I've created a new blog post. That way nobody reads them and takes issue with any of my ramblings. Sometimes I may get angry with what some relative posts, but I have yet to embark on confronting them with their error through a post on facebook. I should follow my own advice, which I put in a recent blog post, that to focus on the evil, the evil that is "out there" in the world, only serves to empower it through the anger and hatred that such a focus tends to produce. Far better it is to focus upon Christ, Whose holiness and justice can transform us by the power of the Holy Spirit, from within our hearts, into His image and likeness, so that His good works may be done both in and through us in the world, in anticipation of the "life of the world to come", Amen. Looking at Facebook posts seems to be the equivalent of a "prolonged staring out into the evil abyss".
 
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Radagast

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People have always had differing opinions.

There are three main changes, it seems to me:
  • there are now some quite radical differences on what "truth" means, and how that truth is obtained.
  • hatred speaks louder than truth, so many people do not even listen to those they hate.
  • people say things online (including here on CF) that they would never be impolite enough to say face-to-face.

FB is becoming poison, but it’s honestly where my far-flung family “gathers” and the only way it seems possible.

I hear you. It's tough. I've pruned my list of FB friends. I've blocked several friends-of-friends. Family is still all there, but I have to bite my tongue a lot with some family members.

If you find a magic wand, let me know.
 
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Phronema

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I’m disappointed when Christians I’ve been friends with for well over a decade attack me for what the Church believes, or for a statement of fact I make which their assessment disagrees with.

In these types of situations if I feel able, or willing to explain it to them, and not allow a debate, or that type of discussion to inflame the passions I may attempt to explain to them the truth of what the Church believes, and why. Most times I just let it go because arguing over the internet is hardly ever fruitful, and more times than not inflames the passions for me. So, I avoid it as it's just not my calling.

I don’t know. I feel tired by it all. To be honest, I barely mention anything related to any volatile topic. I certainly do not crusade. I try to be gentle, and mostly just avoid conflict. But I’m tired, tired, tired by it all. It’s easier to talk only to people I don’t really know who never discuss anything more than a group focus like cute cats or a game board.

I know what you mean by this. I too feel tired by it, and so I have tailored my FB feed to show certain posts by certain pages such as Abbot Tryphon, and the St. Dionysios the Areopagite Monastery with Abbot Maximos first. In addition I've muted people that are the argumentative type, and so I don't see their posts at all, but we're still friends. The muting happens under a three strike rule. This way the posts in my feed are edifying quotes from Saints, or the calming, and wonderful thoughts of Abbot Tryphon who always seems to write posts that cause me to become introspective.

I've found that social media can be toxic if we allow it to be, but can be very edifying if it's setup just right. This may well look to be "sticking my head in the sand" to some, but I'm not going to allow social media to stress me out. It's just not worth it for my health, and I'm much happier this way.
 
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Radagast

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and so I have tailored my FB feed to show certain posts by certain pages such as Abbot Tryphon, and the St. Dionysios the Areopagite Monastery with Abbot Maximos first

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. (Philippians 4:8)
 
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TheLostCoin

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social media + nihilism + political correctness in my opinion.
...pretty much this, especially the first one.

With social media, it's easy to get the narcissistic impression that every opinion you have is God's Voice on Earth which you are projecting to the lost masses that everyone needs to hear. (Spoiler, nobody cares at all what you think unless you are a celebrity).

Also, it's incredibly easy to get caught in group think via social media, which creates great political inflexibility in people.
 
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Hermit76

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...pretty much this, especially the first one.

With social media, it's easy to get the narcissistic impression that every opinion you have is God's Voice on Earth which you are projecting to the lost masses that everyone needs to hear. (Spoiler, nobody cares at all what you think unless you are a celebrity).

Also, it's incredibly easy to get caught in group think via social media, which creates great political inflexibility in people.
Correcting others is the ultimate virtue
 
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TheLostCoin

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Correcting others is the ultimate virtue

Praising yourself in giving a unilateral political opinion which nobody's allowed to argue is pride.

Also, correcting others means actively trying to make sure they change their mind or behavior. It does not mean logging in to a website and posting a silloloquy to the masses that very few who disagree actually care to read.
 
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archer75

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It's horrible.

I do think part of it is the stress and fear.

Part of it is that various people with lunatic evil desires are emboldened to be out in the open about them, and if they place themselves properly, half the country will "support" them. That enrages the other side, and makes the side defending lunacy double down, because they KNOW this is wrong...they just feel like they can't say it, and the anxiety is intense.

I trace this stuff back to the 90s, but I'm sure it has much deeper roots.

At many progressive schools in the 90s, every English class was "women are people, too." Or "black women are people." Both these statements are true and (unfortunately) need to be restated sometimes in various contexts. But a whole (progressive) generation failed to develop the ability to think deeply about something complex, which the study of literature used to be a good training ground for.

And I have my ideas about the roots of the current craziness in non-progressive circles, but I guess I'll stop here.
 
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Dansiph

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It's horrible.

I do think part of it is the stress and fear.

Part of it is that various people with lunatic evil desires are emboldened to be out in the open about them, and if they place themselves properly, half the country will "support" them. That enrages the other side, and makes the side defending lunacy double down, because they KNOW this is wrong...they just feel like they can't say it, and the anxiety is intense.

I trace this stuff back to the 90s, but I'm sure it has much deeper roots.

At many progressive schools in the 90s, every English class was "women are people, too." Or "black women are people." Both these statements are true and (unfortunately) need to be restated sometimes in various contexts. But a whole (progressive) generation failed to develop the ability to think deeply about something complex, which the study of literature used to be a good training ground for.

And I have my ideas about the roots of the current craziness in non-progressive circles, but I guess I'll stop here.
I remember taking English literature and being bewildered at the topics we would go over. School up until that point was just learning but suddenly - as you say - it was all about women with the word "patriarchy" being brought up every lesson.
 
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peregrinus2017

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If you find a magic wand, let me know.

I have one. I call it my social distancing stick. If I stay six feet away from Facebook at all times, it won't infect me.
 
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Tolworth John

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There are several things running simultaneously, there is a lack of trust of those in authority as well as due to the frequency that official statements are ' spun ' to show the government or the authority in the best possible light.

Chesterton put it, " When you give up believe in One God you replace it with a believe in anything! "

With no central belief people bounce from idea to idea influenced by the latest far, media star, or outrage.

I forget which epistle it is in but there is the quote, " have nothing to do with senseless debate or endless argument over genealogies."
Even in N T times they had there ' life' topics.
 
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Radagast

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I forget which epistle it is in but there is the quote, " have nothing to do with senseless debate or endless argument over genealogies."

Titus 3:9: But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

Even in N T times they had there ' life' topics.

I guess so.
 
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bekkilyn

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There are three main changes, it seems to me:
  • people say things online (including here on CF) that they would never be impolite enough to say face-to-face.

Oh come now, I'd argue mathematical possibility and philosophy with you face-to-face too. :)

Seriously though, the healthiest thing to do is not spend most of the day keeping up with news or social media, and not get too caught up in matters that are outside of our areas of control. While I might be passionate about a topic or even rant about it here on CF or elsewhere, it's usually more of a method of processing my thoughts rather than some sort of an emotional outburst, but even that would be unhealthy if I didn't strictly put limits on social media. For example, I only use facebook to participate in interest groups (such as giraffe-specific groups) and I have a page that I use to provide work-related information, but I don't friend people or keep up with it in any way.

I believe that the majority of our time each day needs to be spent on thoughts and activities that are edifying, regardless of what others are doing or what is going on in the world around us.
 
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social media + nihilism + political correctness in my opinion.
Not to make this a post of disagreement, but what I see happening is the opposite of political correctness. I remember a time when political correctness was basically not being rude or purposefully divisive on sensitive subjects. While that meant that sometimes we avoided the conversations that needed to be had, it was at least partly noble in its intent (at least it was intended that way by most people). But then there began a crusade against political correctness that was purposefully politically incorrect. The goal of political discourse became being purposefully rude and divisive, scoring points and zinging the other guy. We still aren't having the conversations that need to be had, but we are arguing more and with less charity. I cringe any time I see someone who is supposedly a Christian using words like "libtard" or "demoncrat" because it shows that they have given themselves over to hatred and senseless argument. They have become just as bad as what they are decrying, but they don't see it because the other side is evil or ignorant. There is no attempt to be polite, and there is no attempt to make a cogent argument, and so we lose on both accounts. I wish we could return to using reason and civility in our arguments, not just parroting talking points and trying to slam our "opponents" who increasingly are our close friends and family.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Not to make this a post of disagreement, but what I see happening is the opposite of political correctness. I remember a time when political correctness was basically not being rude or purposefully divisive on sensitive subjects. While that meant that sometimes we avoided the conversations that needed to be had, it was at least partly noble in its intent (at least it was intended that way by most people). But then there began a crusade against political correctness that was purposefully politically incorrect. The goal of political discourse became being purposefully rude and divisive, scoring points and zinging the other guy. We still aren't having the conversations that need to be had, but we are arguing more and with less charity. I cringe any time I see someone who is supposedly a Christian using words like "libtard" or "demoncrat" because it shows that they have given themselves over to hatred and senseless argument. They have become just as bad as what they are decrying, but they don't see it because the other side is evil or ignorant. There is no attempt to be polite, and there is no attempt to make a cogent argument, and so we lose on both accounts. I wish we could return to using reason and civility in our arguments, not just parroting talking points and trying to slam our "opponents" who increasingly are our close friends and family.

I agree with what you say, I only differ on how I am defining political correctness. in a free society, you don't have the right (at least when it comes to ideas) to not be offended. if someone attracted to another of the same sex is in discussion with a traditional Christian, the discussion should not be shouted down because the Christian points out the sinful elephant in the room. obviously, the Christian should not enter with the intent to offend, but if offense happens the Christian's speech should not be policed.
 
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bekkilyn

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Not to make this a post of disagreement, but what I see happening is the opposite of political correctness. I remember a time when political correctness was basically not being rude or purposefully divisive on sensitive subjects. While that meant that sometimes we avoided the conversations that needed to be had, it was at least partly noble in its intent (at least it was intended that way by most people). But then there began a crusade against political correctness that was purposefully politically incorrect. The goal of political discourse became being purposefully rude and divisive, scoring points and zinging the other guy. We still aren't having the conversations that need to be had, but we are arguing more and with less charity. I cringe any time I see someone who is supposedly a Christian using words like "libtard" or "demoncrat" because it shows that they have given themselves over to hatred and senseless argument. They have become just as bad as what they are decrying, but they don't see it because the other side is evil or ignorant. There is no attempt to be polite, and there is no attempt to make a cogent argument, and so we lose on both accounts. I wish we could return to using reason and civility in our arguments, not just parroting talking points and trying to slam our "opponents" who increasingly are our close friends and family.

It's gone to the other extreme as well, particularly on the left. Now even charitable words are offensive and bigoted and if you say them in the wrong place, you might get cancelled, threatened, harassed, and even doxxed. I've considered myself progressive left for a long time, largely because of the extremes on the right that you mentioned above as well as certain issues that the left supported, but I don't have a political home anymore if I've ever had one. Say the "wrong" thing on the left, and you get people calling up your employer to get you fired and women (or "menstruators" as we're supposed to be called now) getting multiple threats of rape and other forms of violence, sometimes just for existing as female.

I agree with the OP. The world has just gone crazy, and I don't for a moment believe it's all because of COVID-19.

I really don't like to use the "both sides" argument, but it's really a huge cesspool on both extremes, and a big problem is that both extremes are no longer considered extreme but "normal" even if there is nothing rational or reasonable about it.
 
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I want to thank everyone who has posted so far. A lot of good thoughts here - quite a lot! - and I hope I have time to reply in more detail to at least some.

I thank you all for expressing some of the things I see.

I’ve never been one to use FB for arguing points. I guess what exhausts me is that the majority of my family and close friends now do. And what is really discouraging - if I engage on any level at all - I’ve got half of them against me for saying we should take some precautions wrt the virus while others are against me because I am not as militant as they are on that issue (or some other). It’s like people are looking for disagreement so that everyone is against me on some count. And some of them are thankfully too charitable to say so, but they are so vehement in their own posts (which I don’t engage) that I know if they see me talking to someone else on the topic they are likely to count me among the “other”.

Maybe it’s months of isolation from Church community, being gone from here, essentially being without work so cut off from coworkers for long periods, plus my only interaction with family and long-term friends spiraling so terribly.

I just feel like the world is going mad.

Not that there isn’t plenty of good to focus on. If I keep in my quiet little life, it’s actually really pretty good.

Maybe I’m having trouble processing what’s happening in society.

But when it comes to family and close friends posting really what amounts to hate-manipulated propaganda (on both/all sides - it doesn’t really matter what the issue is - people can demonize all sides of it) ... well it’s grievous.
 
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