Israel's ally

TribulationSigns · Jul 8, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
So you believe you will be raped?

Zechariah 14:2 NIV: I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

Is that how your spiritual understanding of women being raped? It's you?
Go ahead. Proclaim that you will be raped.
Just keep in mind. While you are bring raped in your mind, the people in the above verse is taking control of Israel.They are taking control of Israel and everything in it.
Now most people would be concerned when they see those who were protecting Israel defeated and lay dead in the street.

Maybe you want Iran to have nukes. Maybe you want everyone you know and love to suffer at the hands of Iranians.Is that what you want?

Calm down, Shilohsfoal. Your questioning is being irrational. I doubt you really fully understand what Zechariah 14 was all about. Instead of giving it a full commentary here, I will tell you that Zechariah 14 was talking about the fall of Old Testament Congregation and the establishment of the New Testament Congregation.

Let us take a look at Lamentations 5.

Lamentations 5:1-11 KJV
[1] Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach.
[2] Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens.
[3] We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers are as widows.
[4] We have drunken our water for money; our wood is sold unto us.
[5] Our necks are under persecution: we labour, and have no rest.
[6] We have given the hand to the Egyptians, and to the Assyrians, to be satisfied with bread.
[7] Our fathers have sinned, and are not; and we have borne their iniquities.
[8] Servants have ruled over us: there is none that doth deliver us out of their hand.
[9] We gat our bread with the peril of our lives because of the sword of the wilderness.
[10] Our skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine.
[11] They ravished the women in Zion, and the maids in the cities of Judah.

The point is the fact that Zechariah mentions women being ravished or raped does not mean that women will literally be raped at this time. The language is used to signify a judgment from God, and it is drawn from this passage in Lamentations where Jeremiah is describing the physical judgment of Jerusalem at the hands of the Babylonians. God uses the same language to describe the desolations of Jerusalem, whether physical or spiritual. Women being ravished in the Zechariah passage is simply a spiritual signification of God's judgment upon His Old Congregation which Jerusalem was represented, in this case it is pointing to the judgment poured on Jesus Christ at the cross, and the spiritual blindness that followed for the nation of Israel. There are many examples of God using language this way all throughout scripture, whether it is the wars, earthquakes, famines and nursing women in distress that we read about in the Olivet discourse or the blindness of horses and flesh wasting away from people while they stand on their feet that we see in this prophecy in Zechariah. These things are not to be taken in a literal sense. God uses this type of language to signify His judgments.

And I think that this is also emphasized in the Jews asking for a "sign" after Christ took authority over the Temple. This is also seen in Christ's response to the question, explaining to them of the destruction of Himself as the Sanctuary or Temple. It was the fulfillment of the prophecy of Messiah the Prince fulfilling a greater house, a greater Temple.

John 2:16-19 KJV
[16] And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
[17] And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Per Daniel 9:26, Christ's people, the Jews, demanded a sign that Christ had this authority over the Temple, and Christ answered their request by telling them of the Sign. It would be his Passion, His Crucifixion. That is spoken of in Psalms 69, as the Disciples commented it was written, "The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up." Indeed, the people of the Prince (Don't forget that the Jews were His people) that would come would destroy the city and the sanctuary just as Daniel 9 predicted. Christ "IS" the holy city and Sanctuary! Christ did not talk about the literal temple, but something far greater in spiritual sense! Same thing with Zechariah 14!

Isaiah 8:13-15 KJV
[13] Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
[14] And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
[15] And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

If any man HAVE EARS to HEAR, let him HEAR!

Selah.

TribulationSigns · Jul 8, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
It just amazes me how out of touch with reality some people on this board are. Just ignorant of anything going on around them and ignarant of scripture. People who spitualize everything so that they can't recognize the nose on thier face.

Really?

The "natural/carnal" inclination is to see the stars, the moon, and the sun as physical objects in heaven. And that's how most "professing" Christians read them throughout the Bible. As physical stars falling, as the literal moon turning blood red, as physical plagues, women raped, eyes got out of sockets, etc. But the revelation is that these are merely symbols, and those who will understand this are those who have the mind of Christ to discern in spirit and truth. Those who don't see the stars as physical stars, candlesticks as physical candlesticks, the Dragon as a physical Dragon, Babylon as Physical Babylon, the wars, famine, pestilence as physical, or Israel as the physical nation in the middle east, will know these truths because they are spiritually discerned. The Apocalypse, Revelation, Zechariah, etc. of what was, is and is to come is made known to God's chosen few. Which is why it is written in this cryptic, parabolic, enigmatic form. All are not meant to understand, only those whom the scales have been removed from their eyes. ...Spiritually Speaking.

Matthew 13:10-11 KJV
[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[11] He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

It might just as well be said that to me it is given to know the parabolic language of Revelation, Daniel, Matthew, Zechariah, etc. but to people like you is not given to know. Same principle.

shilohsfoal · Jul 8, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Really?

The "natural/carnal" inclination is to see the stars, the moon, and the sun as physical objects in heaven. And that's how most "professing" Christians read them throughout the Bible. As physical stars falling, as the literal moon turning blood red, as physical plagues, women raped, eyes got out of sockets, etc. But the revelation is that these are merely symbols, and those who will understand this are those who have the mind of Christ to discern in spirit and truth. Those who don't see the stars as physical stars, candlesticks as physical candlesticks, the Dragon as a physical Dragon, Babylon as Physical Babylon, the wars, famine, pestilence as physical, or Israel as the physical nation in the middle east, will know these truths because they are spiritually discerned. The Apocalypse, Revelation, Zechariah, etc. of what was, is and is to come is made known to God's chosen few. Which is why it is written in this cryptic, parabolic, enigmatic form. All are not meant to understand, only those whom the scales have been removed from their eyes. ...Spiritually Speaking.

Matthew 13:10-11 KJV
[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[11] He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

It might just as well be said that to me it is given to know the parabolic language of Revelation, Daniel, Matthew, Zechariah, etc. but to people like you is not given to know. Same principle.

I don't know a single person who believes a falling star is a literal star. For thousands of years people have called meteors falling stars. Even as far back as when scripture was written.
But when I see missiles reigning down on the earth, I cant help but notice just how much a missile looks like a falling star.

TribulationSigns · Jul 8, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
I don't know a single person who believes a falling star is a literal star. For thousands of years people have called meteors falling stars. Even as far back as when as ctipture was written.
But when I see missiles reigning down on the earth, I cant help but notice just how much a missile looks like a falling star.

Sigh...here you go again. Distracting from subject (raped) being discussed.

Have God told you in His Holy Book, as your authority, that God has defined the stars as missiles, no?

Then, as usual, your private interpretation is considered incorrect by the Word of God!

TexFire316 · Jul 8, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
In scripture, the Israeli government has an ally in the north. This ally gives Israel an army that occupies Jerusalem for 42 months. At the end of the 42 months Jerusalem is attacked by many nations and an overwhelming army. The norths armed forces lay dead in the street of Jerusalem.The Israeli government in Jerusalem is dead. The king of this northern country has to take action or Israel's nuclear arsenal will soon be in his enemies hands. Those who killed his troops stationed in Jerusalem will soon have control of Israel's nuclear arsonal. This king of the north has an obligation to his own country to protect it and his enemy is about to take hold of Israel's nuclear arsonal.

Now what would you expect the king of the north to do?

You have your Scripture wrong! The king of the North is not an ally of Israel.
If you wish to be a student of prophecy, dig, and dig aome more. I've been digging in prophecy for some 15 years. About the time I think I have just one thing figured out, I come across something else. Most of the prophecy we will not understand until just before we need it. But Jesus commands us to study it.

shilohsfoal · Jul 8, 2020

TexFire316 said:
You have your Scripture wrong! The king of the North is not an ally of Israel.
If you wish to be a student of prophecy, dig, and dig aome more. I've been digging in prophecy for some 15 years. About the time I think I have just one thing figured out, I come across something else. Most of the prophecy we will not understand until just before we need it. But Jesus commands us to study it.

Yes, the king of the north and the Israeli government are ally. You need to find a verse that shows them at war before you say they are enemies.And you will not see them at war.

They constantly flatter each other. Every time I see them together they are flattering each other.
It's sickening but most of us know it's just politics.

Daniel 11:32 KJV: And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

shilohsfoal · Jul 8, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Sigh...here you go again. Distracting from subject (raped) being discussed.

Have God told you in His Holy Book, as your authority, that God has defined the stars as missiles, no?

Then, as usual, your private interpretation is considered incorrect by the Word of God!

I said missiles look like falling stars.
You know, those things when nation comes against nation and kingdom against kingdom. You know, like war.

Daniel 11:44 NIV: But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.

Like those things you use when you want to annihilate many.Those things that make people go underground.

Revelation 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains.

TribulationSigns · Jul 8, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
I said missiles look like falling stars.

That is right. It is YOU who said that. Not God. Get it?

You know, those things when nation comes against nation and kingdom against kingdom. You know, like war.

Daniel 11:44 NIV: But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.

Don't you know how to quote Scripture like Matthew 24:7? What does that verse have to do with Daniel 11:44? Do you even realized what nation and kingdom did the Lord talked about in Matthew 24:7 anyway?!

Like those things you use when you want to annihilate many.Those things that make people go underground.

Revelation 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains.

Sigh...please read the context before you take a single verse out of it and make wild speculation about it.

Revelation 6:12-17 KJV
[12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

YOu hajve not learned a lesson from my previous post. They said to the "mountains and rocks, fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne", means they know they are being judged. They are NOT physically escaping to Smoky Mountain or Rocky Mountain and called their rocks to fall upon them! No. No. No. Rather it is by their actions they are calling God's judgment down upon themselves. Do you realize that the mountain falling on them is the JUDGMENT of the kingdom of Christ? It is the fall of the unfaithful congregation where professed Christians called it upon themselves BY THEIR SIN. Just as what happened to fallen Old Testament congregation:

Matthew 21:42-45 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

They did not go to mountain or call a physical stone to fall upon them, but they knew that they are being judged that way!

Therefore, in Scripture mountain often represents a kingdom. Christ's body is the temple of the body, the congregation of Israel. So this is Christ as the MOUNTAIN that will fall on his unfaithful people as judgment. When God calls the Elect to come out of Babylon the Great (unfaithful NT congregation with false prophets and Christs and people deceived by them), it is because she as a congregation being judged as a mountain falling upon her for her sins.

Revelation 8:8 KJV
[8] And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
[9] And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

For those with spiritual ears to hear. The great mountain represents an unfaithful congregation. The fire on the mountain represents God's judgment upon her. Her fall signifies her apostasy. The sea represents the world. The third part of the creatures which were in the sea external church as it sits in the world. The creatures which had life, died represents professed Christian who once tasted heavenly things but never been saved. So the rest of the world (sea) did not repent from their evil doings even in the face of this. The judgment of God upon the Church doesn't phase the unsaved world.

And it is happening right now... if you have spiritual eyes to see. The church is being judged for their unfaithfulness becasue they are following the flase prophets and christs with their lying signs and wonders (false gospel). As a result, the church has become spiritually desolation that the rest of the world will not notice or care about it like we read in Revealtion 11.

Revelation 11:7-10 KJV
[7] And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
[8] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
[9] And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
[10] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

The Two Witnesses are faithful Elect with True Testimony since the Cross. When their testimony is finished (after all people sealed by God has been sealed, Revelation 7:1-4). The beast, the body of false prophets and christs, will arise, and starting to taking over the church where they rule, deceiving many with their lies. So the Truthful Testimony of the faithful elect has been silenced in the Church. The world saw that the church no longer has truthful testimony, they rejoiced about it because they are tired of hearing the TruthFul Testimony against their sins. Now the churches become more apostasy and desolation that the world will not repent over it.

It is happening right now and Christ is coming very close becasue the Bible said that His church must be judged FIRST before Christ appears in the sky to judge the rest of the world.

This has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with nation Israel or some silly nuclear missiles or anything like that! It is spiritual discernment where Christian can see how God is judging his New Testament congregation of Israel, the church! Just like Christ did with Old Testament Congregation! Deja Vu!

shilohsfoal · Jul 8, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
That is right. It is YOU who said that. Not God. Get it?

Don't you know how to quote Scripture like Matthew 24:7? What does that verse have to do with Daniel 11:44? Do you even realized what nation and kingdom did the Lord talked about in Matthew 24:7 anyway?!

Sigh...please read the context before you take a single verse out of it and make wild speculation about it.

Revelation 6:12-17 KJV
[12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

YOu hajve not learned a lesson from my previous post. They said to the "mountains and rocks, fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne", means they know they are being judged. They are NOT physically escaping to Smoky Mountain or Rocky Mountain and called their rocks to fall upon them! No. No. No. Rather it is by their actions they are calling God's judgment down upon themselves. Do you realize that the mountain falling on them is the JUDGMENT of the kingdom of Christ? It is the fall of the unfaithful congregation where professed Christians called it upon themselves BY THEIR SIN. Just as what happened to fallen Old Testament congregation:

Matthew 21:42-45 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

They did not go to mountain or call a physical stone to fall upon them, but they knew that they are being judged that way!

Therefore, in Scripture mountain often represents a kingdom. Christ's body is the temple of the body, the congregation of Israel. So this is Christ as the MOUNTAIN that will fall on his unfaithful people as judgment. When God calls the Elect to come out of Babylon the Great (unfaithful NT congregation with false prophets and Christs and people deceived by them), it is because she as a congregation being judged as a mountain falling upon her for her sins.

Revelation 8:8 KJV
[8] And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
[9] And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

For those with spiritual ears to hear. The great mountain represents an unfaithful congregation. The fire on the mountain represents God's judgment upon her. Her fall signifies her apostasy. The sea represents the world. The third part of the creatures which were in the sea external church as it sits in the world. The creatures which had life, died represents professed Christian who once tasted heavenly things but never been saved. So the rest of the world (sea) did not repent from their evil doings even in the face of this. The judgment of God upon the Church doesn't phase the unsaved world.

And it is happening right now... if you have spiritual eyes to see. The church is being judged for their unfaithfulness becasue they are following the flase prophets and christs with their lying signs and wonders (false gospel). As a result, the church has become spiritually desolation that the rest of the world will not notice or care about it like we read in Revealtion 11.

Revelation 11:7-10 KJV
[7] And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
[8] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
[9] And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
[10] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

The Two Witnesses are faithful Elect with True Testimony since the Cross. When their testimony is finished (after all people sealed by God has been sealed, Revelation 7:1-4). The beast, the body of false prophets and christs, will arise, and starting to taking over the church where they rule, deceiving many with their lies. So the Truthful Testimony of the faithful elect has been silenced in the Church. The world saw that the church no longer has truthful testimony, they rejoiced about it because they are tired of hearing the TruthFul Testimony against their sins. Now the churches become more apostasy and desolation that the world will not repent over it.

It is happening right now and Christ is coming very close becasue the Bible said that His church must be judged FIRST before Christ appears in the sky to judge the rest of the world.

This has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with nation Israel or some silly nuclear missiles or anything like that! It is spiritual discernment where Christian can see how God is judging his New Testament congregation of Israel, the church! Just like Christ did with Old Testament Congregation! Deja Vu!

John sure gave a great discription of a nuclear explosion in that text. I think he did a fantastic job.

ByTheSpirit · Jul 8, 2020

Nothing gets a point across better than insulting people who are trying to discuss something with you...

nolidad · Jul 9, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
In scripture, the Israeli government has an ally in the north. This ally gives Israel an army that occupies Jerusalem for 42 months. At the end of the 42 months Jerusalem is attacked by many nations and an overwhelming army. The norths armed forces lay dead in the street of Jerusalem.The Israeli government in Jerusalem is dead. The king of this northern country has to take action or Israel's nuclear arsenal will soon be in his enemies hands. Those who killed his troops stationed in Jerusalem will soon have control of Israel's nuclear arsonal. This king of the north has an obligation to his own country to protect it and his enemy is about to take hold of Israel's nuclear arsonal.

Now what would you expect the king of the north to do?

If you are concluding this from Daniel 11 you are sorely mistaken! Daniel 11 is mostly about teh exploits of the kingdoms that came to be after alexander the great died. The leaders being Seleucius, Lysimachus, Cassander and Ptolemy. If you look at the history from these four kings through to Antiochus Epiphanes, you will see it matches Daniel 11.

TribulationSigns · Jul 9, 2020

nolidad said:
If you are concluding this from Daniel 11 you are sorely mistaken! Daniel 11 is mostly about teh exploits of the kingdoms that came to be after alexander the great died. The leaders being Seleucius, Lysimachus, Cassander and Ptolemy. If you look at the history from these four kings through to Antiochus Epiphanes, you will see it matches Daniel 11.

Ahem, everyone...Daniel 11 has nothing to do with Antiochus Epiphanes or modern nations north of Israel today. It is not something you need to look for on the map or in some history books. YOu need biblical history.

Douggg · Jul 9, 2020

nolidad said:
If you are concluding this from Daniel 11 you are sorely mistaken! Daniel 11 is mostly about teh exploits of the kingdoms that came to be after alexander the great died. The leaders being Seleucius, Lysimachus, Cassander and Ptolemy. If you look at the history from these four kings through to Antiochus Epiphanes, you will see it matches Daniel 11.

For the most part. Daniel 11:36 picks up in the end times.

nolidad · Jul 9, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Ahem, everyone...Daniel 11 has nothing to do with Antiochus Epiphanes or modern nations north of Israel today. It is not something you need to look for on the map or in some history books. YOu need biblical history.

It starts with Alexander, then the breakup of the Grecian Empire. It goes with a narrative of teh Seleucian Dynasty and finishes with Antiochus Epiphanes! then vse. 36 picks up the last days

TribulationSigns · Jul 9, 2020

nolidad said:
It starts with Alexander, then the breakup of the Grecian Empire. It goes with a narrative of teh Seleucian Dynasty and finishes with Antiochus Epiphanes! then vse. 36 picks up the last days

Again, only by an unsound hermeneutic and man-made interpretation of the Bible. Because God makes no mention of the erection of a pagan altar in the temple, or Antiochus Epiphanes, or 168 BC, or of AD 70, or even antichrist in modern Israel. There is not one word where God speaks of such dates or occurrences. This is another private interpretation of man, unsubstantiated by the Biblical record.

Again, that is just man's speculation and suppositions. For the TRUTH is, the prophet Daniel never "EVER" prophesied of the erection of a pagan altar in the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC, nor of Romans in AD 70. An unfortunate penchant of man is that he transposes his own personal ideas onto the Bible.

2nd Peter 1:20

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

The prophecy of scripture is not subject to our own private or personal interpretations, since it is the divinely inspired word of the living God, and not subject to the will of man. Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, and thus interpretations of their words can only be through God's word. Not through man's supposition, not through reading our favorite history book to create some of our own imaginations into scripture, and certainly not through the words of secular historians! A sound hermeneutic and ordered exegesis of scripture is paramount in understanding prophesy. And it starts with comparing scripture with scripture, not with man's words. Letting God interpret His own words, not man. Christ referenced Daniel, not Josephus.

Daniel 9:27 KJV
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 8:9-14 KJV
[9] And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
[10] And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
[11] Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
[12] And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The continual, or daily was not taken away by Antiochus, Titus or any other man in the future, but by the spirit Satan. He is the little power that should arise and magnify himself in "THE TEMPLE OF GOD" and cast the truth down. What truth was in the physical Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70? Lest we forget, it was "by reason of transgression an host was given against the daily sacrifice." That is the prophesy! Christ further illuminated it declaring in Matthew 24:15, abomination would stand in the Holy Place. The Jewish Temple was not the Holy Place of God in AD 70, nor was it brought to desolation by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC. The fact is, neither Titus nor Antiochus Epiphanes is the little horn that God declares shall cast the truth down (Jerusalem didn't have the truth in AD 70), take away the continual (daily), which Jerusalem didn't have to be cast down, throw the place of the Prince down (the Jewish temple was not the place of the Prince in AD 70), and tread down the host for 2300 days, cleaning the Sanctuary.

So... sorry, Antiochus does NOT QUALIFY anymore that Josephus qualifies to interpret God's word. That is as disjointed a theory that I have read. No, the well-traveled 168BC/AD 70 theory is all just a pipe dream, a tradition, a very bad private interpretation that disregards all the Biblical facts, substituting speculations for sound exegesis.

shilohsfoal · Jul 9, 2020

nolidad said:
If you are concluding this from Daniel 11 you are sorely mistaken! Daniel 11 is mostly about teh exploits of the kingdoms that came to be after alexander the great died. The leaders being Seleucius, Lysimachus, Cassander and Ptolemy. If you look at the history from these four kings through to Antiochus Epiphanes, you will see it matches Daniel 11.

No, Daniel 11 is about events leading up to the time of the end through about 6 administration's.

When exactly do you believe the time of the end and the resurrection took place?

Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.

nolidad · Jul 10, 2020

TribulationSigns said:
Again, only by an unsound hermeneutic and man-made interpretation of the Bible. Because God makes no mention of the erection of a pagan altar in the temple, or Antiochus Epiphanes, or 168 BC, or of AD 70, or even antichrist in modern Israel. There is not one word where God speaks of such dates or occurrences. This is another private interpretation of man, unsubstantiated by the Biblical record.

Again, that is just man's speculation and suppositions. For the TRUTH is, the prophet Daniel never "EVER" prophesied of the erection of a pagan altar in the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC, nor of Romans in AD 70. An unfortunate penchant of man is that he transposes his own personal ideas onto the Bible.

Well we know that folks like you hate the literal, historical grammatical hermeneutic of Scripture. Though you use that with all other writings! HHMM?

I never ever said that anyone erected a pagan altar in the temple, so that is you making false assumptions!

TribulationSigns said:
2nd Peter 1:20

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

The prophecy of scripture is not subject to our own private or personal interpretations, since it is the divinely inspired word of the living God, and not subject to the will of man

So then why do you mysticize passages of sCripture and make them say something not written?

TribulationSigns said:
The continual, or daily was not taken away by Antiochus,

And yet during the reign of Antiochus, the sacrifice was taken away for 2300 days just as prophesied! And he slaughtered a pig on the altar and erected pagan symbols in teh holy of holies!

TribulationSigns said:
Not through man's supposition, not through reading our favorite history book to create some of our own imaginations into scripture, and certainly not through the words of secular historians! A sound hermeneutic and ordered exegesis of scripture is paramount in understanding prophesy

I agree! That is why I use a literal, historical, grammatical method of hereneutics! You do not!

If you used Gods Word to let SCripture interpret Scripture you would not come up with so many of the crazy conclusions you have written on this forum!

Take here for example.

TribulationSigns said:
"by reason of transgression an host was given against the daily sacrifice." That is the prophesy! Christ further illuminated it declaring in Matthew 24:15, abomination would stand in the Holy Place. The Jewish Temple was not the Holy Place of God in AD 70, nor was it brought to desolation by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC. The fact is, neither Titus nor Antiochus Epiphanes is the little horn that God declares shall cast the truth down (Jerusalem didn't have the truth in AD 70), take away the continual (daily), which Jerusalem didn't have to be cast down, throw the place of the Prince down (the Jewish temple was not the place of the Prince in AD 70), and tread down the host for 2300 days, cleaning the Sanctuary.

You seem to forget that Jesus was speaking in c. 30AD and was speaking to 11 men who were entirely Jewish and would know exactly what jesus was saying when he said the "holy place" This is a future event for no gentile has ever entered the holy of holies!

The Body of Christ is now the temple of God as the Scriptures say. YOu say this:

TribulationSigns said:
The continual, or daily was not taken away by Antiochus, Titus or any other man in the future, but by the spirit Satan. He is the little power that should arise and magnify himself in "THE TEMPLE OF GOD"

As the temple is not the hol;y place according to you, then it must be the body of Christ by default! So you are implying that a created creature can be omnipresent and possess all believers across the globe at a given time! Sorry but Wrong.

YOu also err, oin that just because the term horn is used in different visions, you conclude they are talking about the same person.

Well even a cursory reading of the visions of Daniel show that CANNOT BE! one comes from a beast with ten horns and the 11th horn overthrows three! Theother horn comes from a he goat with a prominent horn who is put down and four horns take its place and that born arises from one of the four horns! YOu seem to forget that biblical events happen on planet eath when talking about prophecy and Gods people. we can look to history and see how past prophecies were fulfilled, what the temple looked like in Jesus day, how the Jewish government was organized and how Jewish culture was.

YOu may hate history, but that is why you have your private opinions of prophecy.

Barney2.0 · Jul 10, 2020

The modern so called “State of Israel” has nothing to do with Biblical Israel as a people, nation, or even a state. The Church and the body of believers in Christ both Jew and Gentile are the new Israel.

nolidad · Jul 10, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
No, Daniel 11 is about events leading up to the time of the end through about 6 administration's.

When exactly do you believe the time of the end and the resurrection took place?

Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.

YOu need to keep verses in their total context! Daniel 11 up to verse 35 is speaking of the time from Alexander through the reign of the four dynasties established after him. Verse 36 through the end is about antiochus epiphanes and his exploits. Jewish apocryphal and deuterocanonical writings have much to say abou tthis.

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