How many battles total are there in Ezekiel 38-39?

DavidPT · Jul 9, 2020

None?

1?

2?

3?

More than 3?

I tend to think there is only 1 total. What is predicted in Ezekiel 38 is meaning Ezekiel 39:17-20, where that is meaning Ezekiel 39:8, thus only 1 battle total. Yet there are some that see more than 1 battle total. But how could there be?

eleos1954 · Jul 9, 2020

DavidPT said:
None?

1?

2?

3?

More than 3?

I tend to think there is only 1 total. What is predicted in Ezekiel 38 is meaning Ezekiel 39:17-20, where that is meaning Ezekiel 39:8, thus only 1 battle total. Yet there are some that see more than 1 battle total. But how could there be?

I agree 1 .....

Douggg · Jul 9, 2020

DavidPT said:
None?

1?

2?

3?

More than 3?

I tend to think there is only 1 total. What is predicted in Ezekiel 38 is meaning Ezekiel 39:17-20, where that is meaning Ezekiel 39:8, thus only 1 battle total. Yet there are some that see more than 1 battle total. But how could there be?

2.

The first is the Gog/Magog attack on Israel. Gog's army destroyed and buried in a mass grave site in Israel. The account of Gog/Magog ends in Ezekiel 39:16
16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

The second is 7 years later, Armageddon is in Ezekiel 39:17-20. With Jesus Himself speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29 having returned to earth, having just laid judgement on the heathen in Ezekiel:17-20.
___________________________________________________

Ezekiel and Daniel were contemporaries living in the land of Babylon. Both books contain prophecies of the end times leading up to Jesus's return.

Douggg · Jul 9, 2020

David, there are many Jews who believe the messianic age follows directly after Gog/Magog. Thus, they will be expecting the messiah to be revealed to Israel at that time.

The little horn in Daniel 8:9 heads south and east, into the middle east toward the pleasant land - Israel. Which Israel, in a state of peace, not at war at the time, will have come under attack from Gog/Magog.

Thus, following Gog/Magog, the little horn and his army acting under the guise of keeping peace in the region in the aftermath, that will weigh heavily on the Jews mind that the little horn person is the messiah.

They of course are not going to see that person as the little horn, fulfillment of Daniel 7 and 8.

This can be elusive to understand unless a person has the right understanding of "the Antichrist" as pertaining to being the King of Israel, for a while.

DavidPT · Jul 9, 2020

Douggg said:
2.

The first is the Gog/Magog attack on Israel. Gog's army destroyed and buried in a mass grave site in Israel. The account of Gog/Magog ends in Ezekiel 39:16
16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

The second is 7 years later, Armageddon is in Ezekiel 39:17-20. With Jesus Himself speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29 having returned to earth, having just laid judgement on the heathen in Ezekiel:17-20.
___________________________________________________

Ezekiel and Daniel were contemporaries living in the land of Babylon. Both books contain prophecies of the end times leading up to Jesus's return.

I just typed up the following a few minutes earlier, and was going to submit it into the thread. This was before I was aware of your post here. And now that I am aware of your post and have read it, it seems fitting that this addresses your post, thus I will submit it here in answer to some of the things you brought up.

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

How can---in the eyes of many nations---not be meaning---in the sight of many nations?

'eyes' in Ezekiel 38:23 is the Hebrew word `ayin. 'sight' in Ezekiel 39:27 is also the same same Hebrew word `ayin. Is that just a coincidence?

Is not Ezekiel 39:27 pertaining to the judgment the LORD executed in Ezekiel 39:21? Did not the LORD say in Ezekiel 38:16, this---And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes?

Is not that what happens according to this---Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured(Ezekiel 39:4)?

Isn't this the reason why the LORD had Ezekiel Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood---in order to prepare in advance for what was to come?

eleos1954 · Jul 9, 2020

DavidPT said:
I just typed up the following a few minutes earlier, and was going to submit it into the thread. This was before I was aware of your post here. And now that I am aware of your post and have read it, it seems fitting that this addresses your post, thus I will submit it here in answer to some of the things you brought up.

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

How can---in the eyes of many nations---not be meaning---in the sight of many nations?

'eyes' in Ezekiel 38:23 is the Hebrew word `ayin. 'sight' in Ezekiel 39:27 is also the same same Hebrew word `ayin. Is that just a coincidence?

Is not Ezekiel 39:27 pertaining to the judgment the LORD executed in Ezekiel 39:21? Did not the LORD say in Ezekiel 38:16, this---And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes?

Is not that what happens according to this---Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured(Ezekiel 39:4)?

Isn't this the reason why the LORD had Ezekiel Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood---in order to prepare in advance for what was to come?

Ezekiel 39:17
And as for you, son of man, this is what the Lord GOD says: Call out to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field: 'Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you, a great feast on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood.

Revelation 19:17

Berean Literal Bible
And I saw one angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in loud a voice, saying to all the birds flying in mid-heaven, "Come, gather yourselves unto the great supper of God,

Revelation 19:21
And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse. And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

DavidPT · Jul 9, 2020

eleos1954 said:
Ezekiel 39:17
And as for you, son of man, this is what the Lord GOD says: Call out to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field: 'Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you, a great feast on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood.

Revelation 19:17

Berean Literal Bible
And I saw one angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in loud a voice, saying to all the birds flying in mid-heaven, "Come, gather yourselves unto the great supper of God,

Revelation 19:21
And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse. And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

What's interesting about this, not only was Ezekiel called son of man, so was Jesus. Who knows...but maybe the one crying in a loud voice in Revelation 19:17 could be meaning Jesus? That wouldn't make Him a literal angel though, assuming it were meaning Him. This is nothing I'm dogmatic about, it's basically something that has crossed my mind before.

One reason why it crossed my mind is because of what the following says in Ezekiel 39:8.

Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

Compare that with the following.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

We know in Ezekiel 39:8 it is the LORD God who is declaring it is done. But in Revelation 16:17 we are only told a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, is saying it is done. It seems to me then, according to Ezekiel 39:8, the great voice would be meaning the LORD God in Revelation 16:17. It might already seem obvious without comparing to Ezekiel 39:8, that the great voice is the LORD God in Revelation 16:17. What might not seem obvious without comparing, is that Ezekiel 39:8 and Revelation 16:17 are referring to the same events. IOW, Ezekiel 39:8 is meaning the 7th vial.

Douggg · Jul 9, 2020

DavidPT said:
Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

David, it is necessary to look at Ezekiel 39:7.

Back when Israel was sent into the nations for rejecting Jesus, and times before then, it made it look like God was incapable from preventing Israel being defeated. In essence profaning and polluting God's name.

Ezekiel 36:20-24, take a look at those verses.

DavidPT said:
Is not Ezekiel 39:27 pertaining to the judgment the LORD executed in Ezekiel 39:21? Did not the LORD say in Ezekiel 38:16, this---And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes?

Ezekiel 39:28 corresponds to Matthew 24:31. Everything in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is from Jesus recounting the past 2000 years of why Israel was forced into the nations, for rejecting him as the messiah. But they became back into good standing by receiving Jesus in the middle of the 7 years.

Ezekiel 39:7, is different. Following Gog/Magog is God proving that he is fully capable of defending Israel, unlike the rumor was going around during their captivity that the God of Israel was lacking.

Dave L · Jul 9, 2020

DavidPT said:
I just typed up the following a few minutes earlier, and was going to submit it into the thread. This was before I was aware of your post here. And now that I am aware of your post and have read it, it seems fitting that this addresses your post, thus I will submit it here in answer to some of the things you brought up.

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

How can---in the eyes of many nations---not be meaning---in the sight of many nations?

'eyes' in Ezekiel 38:23 is the Hebrew word `ayin. 'sight' in Ezekiel 39:27 is also the same same Hebrew word `ayin. Is that just a coincidence?

Is not Ezekiel 39:27 pertaining to the judgment the LORD executed in Ezekiel 39:21? Did not the LORD say in Ezekiel 38:16, this---And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes?

Is not that what happens according to this---Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured(Ezekiel 39:4)?

Isn't this the reason why the LORD had Ezekiel Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood---in order to prepare in advance for what was to come?

I see this in two ways. Since Christ revealed the OT kingdom prophecies are symbolic and the kingdom spiritual, it refers to the Gog/Magog attack in Revelation 20. It's a spiritual battle against biblical Israel the Church and the world. Just as Jesus returns.

Or it was the Attack against the Jews in Esther's time when they lived in unwalled villages. The Jews waged one of the most famous battles of all time and still celebrate it today. One thing it is not, Russia trying to steal Israel's cattle with spears and horses in the future.

com7fy8 · Jul 9, 2020

In Ezekiel 38, to me it seems to say the LORD will call Gog to flood to Israel . . . lured by how Israel will have towns without walls and much booty to plunder.

But then the LORD will smite them with pestilence and fire and brimstone and hail and heavy rain. And there will be a great earthquake which will level mountains.

And all will tremble.

So, that's Ezekiel 38. Now let's see how Ezekiel 39 compares with the battle in chapter 38.

By the way, the LORD calls Ezekiel "son of man" > I see this is meant simply to acknowledge that Ezekiel is a human. "Son of man" has a very different meaning when talking about Jesus.

There are many Bible words and phrases which are used for both God and humans. For one easy example > God "speaks", and a human "speaks". God speaking has a very different meaning, than if a man speaks. The fact that God's word says God speaks does not mean God is human, to say the least.

In Ezekiel 39, it adds how the enemy will bring so many weapons made of wood, that the Jews will use those weapons for firewood for a full seven years, without using any trees for firewood. This appears to be giving more to go with chapter 38. And other things in this chapter, for me, do not obviously speak of a separate battle.

But this chapter is adding information, in order to increase our realization of how great this battle will be, and how many will attack Israel > this includes how there will be so many enemy attackers, that it will take "seven months" (Ezekiel 39:12) to bury all their bodies.

So, the two chapters to me seem to be supplementing one another, about the same great battle.

eleos1954 · Jul 9, 2020

DavidPT said:
What's interesting about this, not only was Ezekiel called son of man, so was Jesus. Who knows...but maybe the one crying in a loud voice in Revelation 19:17 could be meaning Jesus? That wouldn't make Him a literal angel though, assuming it were meaning Him. This is nothing I'm dogmatic about, it's basically something that has crossed my mind before.

One reason why it crossed my mind is because of what the following says in Ezekiel 39:8.

Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

Compare that with the following.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

We know in Ezekiel 39:8 it is the LORD God who is declaring it is done. But in Revelation 16:17 we are only told a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, is saying it is done. It seems to me then, according to Ezekiel 39:8, the great voice would be meaning the LORD God in Revelation 16:17. It might already seem obvious without comparing to Ezekiel 39:8, that the great voice is the LORD God in Revelation 16:17. What might not seem obvious without comparing, is that Ezekiel 39:8 and Revelation 16:17 are referring to the same events. IOW, Ezekiel 39:8 is meaning the 7th vial.

What's interesting about this, not only was Ezekiel called son of man, so was Jesus. Who knows...but maybe the one crying in a loud voice in Revelation 19:17 could be meaning Jesus? That wouldn't make Him a literal angel though, assuming it were meaning Him. This is nothing I'm dogmatic about, it's basically something that has crossed my mind before.

The "angel" issue as you and many of us know ... is often argued. However, the word angel means messenger ... and it is sometimes used in relation to His created angelic beings .... sometimes referring to human beings, but is also used in conjunction with the divine Himself. When being used in conjunction with the divine .... then it is in the sole context of a message/messenger. In no way ... is this stating or claiming Jesus was a created being nor does it in anyway diminish who He is .... Jesus is God .... and His entire word are his messages to mankind. Understanding the differences ... I don't have a problem with it.

The angel of the Lord appears to Abraham and refers to God in the first person. Exodus 3:2–4. The angel of the Lord appears to Moses in a flame in verse 2, and God speaks to Moses from the flame in verse 4. Numbers 22:22–38.

Strong's Greek: 32. ἄγγελος (aggelos) -- an angel, messenger

Revelation 19:21
And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse. And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

keras · Jul 9, 2020

com7fy8 said:
So, the two chapters to me seem to be supplementing one another, about the same great battle.

I agree.
Ezekiel 38 and 38 are about the same attack, by a confederation of peoples from the north of Israel, who are motivated by God to assemble and march to attack the new nation, recently established in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5

The only common factor with this attack; at least 7 years before Jesus Returns and Armageddon at the Return; is the carrion eaters. Who seem to me to be just mentioned as a derogatory and low value expression for that dead army. There are in fact, very few carrion eaters anywhere in the Middle East now.

DavidPT · Jul 9, 2020

Dave L said:
I see this in two ways. Since Christ revealed the OT kingdom prophecies are symbolic and the kingdom spiritual, it refers to the Gog/Magog attack in Revelation 20. It's a spiritual battle against biblical Israel the Church and the world. Just as Jesus returns.

Assuming this view, this would tend to prove Amil. What this would show is the chronology of events between Revelation 19 and 20 are not actually chronological after all, as in two different battles. In the book of Revelation chapter 20 appears to chronologically follow ch 19. According to Ezekiel 38 and 39, these are not chronological at all, like assumed in Revelation by some of us, but are speaking of the same events. But there is still a problem with even this.

The house of Israel meant couldn't possibly be Israel the Church, since the house of Israel meant in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are someone who God has been hiding His face from until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude. Then after He executes that judgment He is no longer hiding His face from them. These parts can't be ignored. They have to be considered before one can insist they have interpreted these things correctly.

shilohsfoal · Jul 9, 2020

DavidPT said:
None?

1?

2?

3?

More than 3?

I tend to think there is only 1 total. What is predicted in Ezekiel 38 is meaning Ezekiel 39:17-20, where that is meaning Ezekiel 39:8, thus only 1 battle total. Yet there are some that see more than 1 battle total. But how could there be?

There are two wars mentioned in Ezekiel 38 if you consider Gogs invasion as a war.

The first war is Armegeddon which the land recovered from

Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

Gog invades Israel about 1000 years after this previous war in which the land must recover from.
This corresponds to revelation.
When Gog invades Israel in Revelation, those who are there will be living safely without walls as Ezekiel describes.
Im not sure if you can really count Gogs Invasion as a war though. It seems more like a suicide mission. Kinda like Pharoahs army going for a swim in the red sea. Sure they were prepared for war but can you really call it a battle or a war?

Dave L · Jul 10, 2020

DavidPT said:
Assuming this view, this would tend to prove Amil. What this would show is the chronology of events between Revelation 19 and 20 are not actually chronological after all, as in two different battles. In the book of Revelation chapter 20 appears to chronologically follow ch 19. According to Ezekiel 38 and 39, these are not chronological at all, like assumed in Revelation by some of us, but are speaking of the same events. But there is still a problem with even this.

The house of Israel meant couldn't possibly be Israel the Church, since the house of Israel meant in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are someone who God has been hiding His face from until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude. Then after He executes that judgment He is no longer hiding His face from them. These parts can't be ignored. They have to be considered before one can insist they have interpreted these things correctly.

Revelation spans the entire new covenant era and beyond. And it gives several views of the same events just as the gospels do. Jesus teaches Amillennialism in the gospels. And Peter preached it at Pentecost. The Pharisees own Premillennialism and you must reject Jesus' teaching on the kingdom to embrace it.

Dave L · Jul 10, 2020

com7fy8 said:
In Ezekiel 38, to me it seems to say the LORD will call Gog to flood to Israel . . . lured by how Israel will have towns without walls and much booty to plunder.

But then the LORD will smite them with pestilence and fire and brimstone and hail and heavy rain. And there will be a great earthquake which will level mountains.

And all will tremble.

So, that's Ezekiel 38. Now let's see how Ezekiel 39 compares with the battle in chapter 38.

By the way, the LORD calls Ezekiel "son of man" > I see this is meant simply to acknowledge that Ezekiel is a human. "Son of man" has a very different meaning when talking about Jesus.

There are many Bible words and phrases which are used for both God and humans. For one easy example > God "speaks", and a human "speaks". God speaking has a very different meaning, than if a man speaks. The fact that God's word says God speaks does not mean God is human, to say the least.

In Ezekiel 39, it adds how the enemy will bring so many weapons made of wood, that the Jews will use those weapons for firewood for a full seven years, without using any trees for firewood. This appears to be giving more to go with chapter 38. And other things in this chapter, for me, do not obviously speak of a separate battle.

But this chapter is adding information, in order to increase our realization of how great this battle will be, and how many will attack Israel > this includes how there will be so many enemy attackers, that it will take "seven months" (Ezekiel 39:12) to bury all their bodies.

So, the two chapters to me seem to be supplementing one another, about the same great battle.

Keep in mind, Israel is the Church, and the battle is spiritual.

shilohsfoal · Jul 10, 2020

DavidPT said:
Assuming this view, this would tend to prove Amil. What this would show is the chronology of events between Revelation 19 and 20 are not actually chronological after all, as in two different battles. In the book of Revelation chapter 20 appears to chronologically follow ch 19. According to Ezekiel 38 and 39, these are not chronological at all, like assumed in Revelation by some of us, but are speaking of the same events. But there is still a problem with even this.

The house of Israel meant couldn't possibly be Israel the Church, since the house of Israel meant in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are someone who God has been hiding His face from until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude. Then after He executes that judgment He is no longer hiding His face from them. These parts can't be ignored. They have to be considered before one can insist they have interpreted these things correctly.

Why do you believe the house of Israel could not possibly be the church? Are they not allowed to be saved?
After I learned who the beast is th en I learned who those were in the first resurrection. Those who were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus, who did not worship the beast or his image and lived and reign with Christ ARE the house of Israel.
The rest of the dead live not again till the 1000 years are finished.

I've been telling people on this board that the Israel government is going to mark its people and that the mark of the beast is not a worldwide event. Well, neither is the first resurrection.
You will soon find out.I give Netanyahu about a year or two before his cashless society is implemented. Maybe then you will understand.

As for me, I will not be taking part in the first resurrection. Im not even tempted to worship the beast because I'm not living in his kingdom. As for Israel. Israel is a name given to someone who has overcome. I think its only fitting that the house of Israel receive the name Israel.

shilohsfoal · Jul 10, 2020

They shall reign with Christ in the Lord's land for 1000 years. Then Gog invades Israel and is destroyed by God.

The house of Israel shall reign.
Isaiah 14:2 KJV: And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

This is the exact same people Ezekiel is speaking of and the exact same people revelation is speaking of.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

shilohsfoal · Jul 10, 2020

Study this carefully.
I have a question for you concerning these who dwell safely without wall(defences).

Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

Can they die?
If your answer is yes then why would the Lord say they live safely if they are yet subject to death at any moment?

DavidPT · Jul 10, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
Why do you believe the house of Israel could not possibly be the church? Are they not allowed to be saved?
After I learned who the beast is th en I learned who those were in the first resurrection. Those who were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus, who did not worship the beast or his image and lived and reign with Christ ARE the house of Israel.
The rest of the dead live not again till the 1000 years are finished.

I've been telling people on this board that the Israel government is going to mark its people and that the mark of the beast is not a worldwide event. Well, neither is the first resurrection.
You will soon find out.I give Netanyahu about a year or two before his cashless society is implemented. Maybe then you will understand.

As for me, I will not be taking part in the first resurrection. Im not even tempted to worship the beast because I'm not living in his kingdom. As for Israel. Israel is a name given to someone who has overcome. I think its only fitting that the house of Israel receive the name Israel.

Of course they can be saved and are saved eventually, according to ch 39. But my point is though, initially God is hiding His face from them, and while God is hiding His face from them they would be unbelieving Israel at the time, not believing Israel the church at the time. Aren't some when reading the texts involved even considering what they are telling us, before deciding how to interpret these chapters, such as the following? That's not so much directed at you though, but mainly to someone such as DaveL.

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

As of verse 29 they would be part of the church. Before that time they would not yet be. DaveL's position has this same Israel, who he takes to be meaning Israel the church, surrounded in Revelation 20:7-9 in this age before they are even part of the church, then claiming the church is being surrounded.

You OTOH, since you have Israel being surrounded in Ezekiel 38 after the 2nd coming, meaning after the 2nd coming and the thousand years following it, Ezekiel 39:29 would already be true of the house of Israel meant in Ezekiel 38-39 when they are being surrounded in Revelation 20:7-9. That still doesn't make you correct if the battle in ch 38 is the same battle in ch 39.

But per DaveL's view Ezekiel 39:29 would not already be true when they are surrounded in Revelation 20:7-9 since he has them being surrounded in this age prior to the 2nd coming. He's Amil. Amils place the thousand years prior to the 2nd coming, which I'm certain you are well aware of.

Assuming his position were correct, it would prove Amil, thus debunk Premil. Except his position can't be correct if he thinks the Israel being surrounded in Ezekiel 38-39 is to be understood spiritually and is meaning the church. My point is, when they are being surrounded in Ezekiel 38-39 they are being surrounded while God is still hiding His face from them. You of course disagree, in regards to ch 38, since you see that taking place after the 2nd coming. But I don't see that taking place after the 2nd coming myself, because I only see one battle total between ch 38 and 39, and that that battle precedes the 2nd coming.

How many battles total are there in Ezekiel 38-39?

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God is Love

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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God is Love

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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God is Love

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Jacks or better to open

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Jacks or better to open

Jacks or better to open

Jacks or better to open

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