If i keep sinning am i not saved ?

Why all these warnings against sin above if we can sin and still be saved by having a belief alone on Jesus? It doesn't make any sense.

Bible Highlighter said:

So why would Paul say the following words if they are not true?

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Where did I state that?

Bible Highlighter said:

You are mixing up two things that I have stated. I believe Paul's infirmity of the flesh (or thorn in the flesh) was either a disease or a physical ailment.

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Why would Paul require God's forgiveness/forbearance (sufficient grace)for a disease or a physical ailment?

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But you didn't answer the question.... how would God respond to a man that believed himself to be equal to Christ? Believing himself completely righteous, without sin or fault?

Bible Highlighter said:

The second part I mentioned was in reference to your belief in how it is flawed in light of Scripture. We are to endure temptation, and to pray so as not to be led into temptation, and we are given a way of escape by God out of temptation.

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I get that... my question is why does one need to resist temptation concerning a disease or a physical ailment? Seems as if you may be conflating both the physical and the spiritual as the need suits your position.

Bible Highlighter said:

Truth is established by Scripture and not our own blunt or plain ways of speaking. This is why my posts can be long. I use lots of Scripture to establish of what I believe to be the truth.

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All you have to do is simply answer the questions.

Bible Highlighter said:

I am not sure how you can honestly believe this passage in light of what you stated already about your belief. Granted, for the purpose of this thread, I am going to only refer to ceasing from “grievous sin” and not all sin in general (For we are not allowed to discuss Sinless Perfection in this section of the forums). Granted, I do not believe Sinless Perfection is a salvation issue. Not all sins lead to spiritual death. We can only be condemned by those sins mentioned in the Bible that are attached with hellfire and condemnation.

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You have yet to establish how you view a disease or a physical ailment is sin, or a temptation that needs to be resisted. How can you make the leap from Paul having a physical disease or an ailment, to a spiritual matter of resisting temptation without that link?

God is good777 said:

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

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It’s not that difficult friend. It’s the motivation behind the works that saves not the works themselves. That motivation being love, for both God and others. If you love God you will obey His commandments, not perfectly of course but you will have a level of devotion to serving Him. The same goes with having love for others, not that you’ll serve them, but you will do good works out of compassion for them. If you have a genuine love for God and for others then everything else will fall into place.

Bible Highlighter said:

Why all these warnings against sin above if we can sin and still be saved by having a belief alone on Jesus? It doesn't make any sense.

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What else as a Christian is one to believe in?

I gotta run. Maybe be back late tonight or tomorrow morning.

God is good777 said:

Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. I

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As mentioned in #4 understanding the three tenses of salvation would sort most of this out for you. Saved in Three Tenses -3 Times of Salvation - Have been, are being, shall be saved

Basil the Great said:

The "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine sounds very nice and is certainly reassuring. However, there is little evidence, if any, that many Christians accepted said belief until the past few centuries. Even today, the majority of the world's Christians do not profess such a belief. Now this does not necessarily mean that the doctrine is not sound. However, it should give all of us pause to wonder.....

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The reason the "once saved, always saved" doctrine is the right one, the only scripturally sound and true doctrine is because "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) Since everybody's a sinner and we cannot help it, no matter how hard we try not to sin, we're still going to fall, make mistakes, and sin, both unwittingly and willfully, Therefore if we could lose our salvation by sinning after we are saved then every single person who has ever been saved has already lost their Salvation. And, according to Hebrews 4:4-6 if we could lose our Salvation we cannot get it back.

Some people like to compare sins and look at it from the angle that simply making a mistake or committing a small sin won't cause you to lose your Salvation, but committing a big sin like murder or rape, etc. will. But this way of looking at things is not scripturally sound. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" meaning all sin causes you to be undeserving of God's glory and Heavenly perfection. All sin separates us from God and the only way to be reconciled back to God is by receiving Jesus as your Lord and Savior, because Jesus took your punishment for you so you won't have to be punished for your own sins.

"There is none that doeth good, no, not one. "Psalms 14:3
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one" Romans 3:10
"There is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good and sinneth not." Ecclesiastes 7:20

Therefore, the only way to be saved is by having your sins forgiven, not by trying not to sin and being a good little boy or girl. And that's also how to keep your Salvation after you are saved, by accepting it as a free gift from God that you can't earn or even keep by being good. It's yours forever because the Lord has given it to you by Grace through Faith.

Goodhuman said:

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

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Grace through Faith saves him. It's a gift of God.

From what I remember - Jesus died for all our sins. We are mortal born in sin, you can only try with His help trying to avoid sins. Pray for strength and guidance, when you sin say sorry. If we are to forgive neighbour, do you not think that Jesus is just as willing to forgive.

Yes, there will be judgement, but I feel that the punishment you fear is for the evil sins, not the daily human errors. God Bless You.

God is good777 said:

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

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I understand your confusion, because the message you are getting is confusing. Not to call anyone out, but to claim "don't sin willfully" implies you sin against your will. You have free will. You consciously choose to lie, for example. Satan tempts you, but when called out, Adam blames Eve. Eve blames the serpent. Neither just says, yes, I disobeyed. I was wrong. I'm sorry.

So, you are to love your neighbor as yourself. You think, "how do I love people I don't know or barely know?" Samaritans were seen as being lower than sinners. The priest and Levite kept the commandment of cleanliness when entering the temple, so they passed by the beaten man. The Samaritan helped the beaten man, got him to a safe place to heal, and paid for his stay.

Who is exalted in the story?

Christians focus on sin, rather than love, talk about keeping the commandments, but ignore the two in which all of the laws are fulfilled, and then justify it. Why? It is easier to point to the speck in other's eye, than the 2x4 in your own.

It's confusing to me how many Christians will spend time convincing other Christians to doubt their salvation. One poster said "God only spared Noah's family and drowned everyone else, so, no one is safe." Christ allowed himself to be sacrificed because of his love for us, so trying to invalidate another's salvation is trying to invalidate he resurrection. Scouring the bible to condemn another for "unrepentant sin" condemns oneself, because they are implying that following the commandments earns them a place in heaven. Focusing on the sins of others, rather than self examination, condemns you, as you refuse to acknowledge you own sin, and God's mercy and forgiveness. Claiming others need to turn from all sin to come to God is hypocritical because no one is perfect, and turns many people away.

Christ taught parable to the people that they could relate to, such as sheep and goats, the parable of the seeds.
So, when you stsrt a relationship, do yoy demand you SO be perfect? Or do you acknowledge that you aren't perfect, so you can forgive your SO's imperfections?
If your spouse gets angry at some cruel words said, does granting you mercy mean you can do it again? Will you want to do ut again? If your spouse says, "I don't believe you love me," is a satisfying answer "I have never once hit. I haven't tried to kill you. I have never cheated on you, but had many opportunities...", does he love her? Or would she sleep with one eye open? How would you feel if your wife was constantly spying on the neighbors, spreading gossip about others, criticizing others, but never looking at her own faults, such as gossiping? Because she claims to be a Christian, is she actually following Christ?

So, I am utterly confused by Christians who say that forgiveness doesn't give you a pass to sin more. No one becomes a Christian in order to sin. I suspect it implies that forgiving another is a sign of weakness. Holding a grudge is weakness.

The love and mercy of Jesus is often down played, thinking kindness is weakness, when it is cruelty that is a sign of weakness. Thus, the Rambo their love to "tough love," indistinguishable from harsh cruelty by those receiving it. They will justify it, saying it's like disciplining a child. That implies they are the adult who knows better. But they are using "tough love" on another adult, which is about as effective as spanking an adult.

When someone tells me they are Christian, my spiritual fists go up in defense mode. It does for many people.
In speaking to a rider for Lyft, she talked about her organization that did outreach that was comprised of Christians, Jews and Muslims. I said that at the heart of most religions is the concept of loving one another. Immediately, she said, "Yes, but we can't love without discrimination. If someone is alcoholic, it isn't very loving not to point his drinking problem."
I told her that the sheep were told, I was hungry, and you fed me, not for the sins they pointed out. We are "Judge not, lest ye be judged," because of people like Simon who judged the woman washing Jesus feet, and Jesus himself, who only judged rightly in admitting he demonstrated far less love to Christ than the woman whom he condemned. Christ doesn't say to "love your neighbor as yourself - but not their sin!"He simply commands us to love one another, but if I say that, and one's first reaction is to point to another's sin, they don't understand the concept of God's love. So, they go out to the street corner with a loudspeaker, telling everyone that they are a sinner and need to repent. One guy even dared to refer to them as demons, not even knowing them. He demanded that they listen, but refused to hear them. He mocked Islam, then played victim when they were angry.

Then he gets no converts, reinforcing his belief that the world is like the tomes of Noah.

I work at Trader Joe's near Berkeley. People come in and tell me they have two or more orders, shopping for their elderly neighbors. Many white people joined in the protests about the unlawful killing of Floyd, staying to the back of the march as support, and only coming forward when Allies were called by the protest leaders. My store donates a large amount of its food to the local food shelves, as do many of the surrounding stores.

The world has problems, but it is also filled with kindness. It depends on which you want to focus. The sin of others, or what you can do at any moment to act in love toward your neighbor.

Beanieboy said:

I understand your confusion, because the message you are getting is confusing. Not to call anyone out, but to claim "don't sin willfully" implies you sin against your will. You have free will. You consciously choose to lie, for example. Satan tempts you, but when called out, Adam blames Eve. Eve blames the serpent. Neither just says, yes, I disobeyed. I was wrong. I'm sorry.

So, you are to love your neighbor as yourself. You think, "how do I love people I don't know or barely know?" Samaritans were seen as being lower than sinners. The priest and Levite kept the commandment of cleanliness when entering the temple, so they passed by the beaten man. The Samaritan helped the beaten man, got him to a safe place to heal, and paid for his stay.

Who is exalted in the story?

Christians focus on sin, rather than love, talk about keeping the commandments, but ignore the two in which all of the laws are fulfilled, and then justify it. Why? It is easier to point to the speck in other's eye, than the 2x4 in your own.

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This focus on sin and not love, is a very deep rooted problem in Christianity.

It is a failure to launch, a failure to grasp what repentance really means in the New Testament. Accepting Jesus Christ and living a life centered on loving others, the way that Jesus loved us.

The tree must bear fruit and the fruit is listed for us.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Obviously, if your practicing 'gentleness' towards others, then you are unlikely to be trying to murder anyone.

If your getting better at kindness, your obviously heading in the opposite direction to stealing.

This is elementary and I am stunned that people don't see this.

Bible Highlighter said:

Why all these warnings against sin above if we can sin and still be saved by having a belief alone on Jesus? It doesn't make any sense.

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Al the verses you quoted above have to be taken in context and some of them need to be explained. For example the verse "without holiness no man shall see the Lord." What is your definition of Holiness?

"Not every one which saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven." So what is the Fathers will? Let's see if we can find it. Oh, here it is "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son and believeth on Him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day." Yes, we're supposed to do the will of the Father to enter the kingdom of Heaven, but the Father's will is simply to believe in Jesus, so all that is merely proof that Jesus alone saves.

Paul8t6 said:

We are commanded to mortify the deads of flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit.#



You understand that I post Scripture and it is the Scriptures you are disagreeing with ? The Scriptures say that if you profess the name of Jesus Christ you are to depart from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 (KJV)

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

​

I have sinned a great deal but that does not change what the Bible teaches. I could go on posting Scriptures all day from different parts of the New Testament in which over and over again we are told to not walk after the flesh which is sin.

1 Peter 4 (KJV)

4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.



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If it's ok to continue in sin why did paul say the opposite ? I have been in a struggle with my flesh recently and I'm currently in a process of repentance and sanctification because that is what Jesus Christ through the word of God commands me to do.

Romans 6 (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?​

John 8:11(KJV)

11 She said, No man, Lord.
And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

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You depart from iniquity by confessing Christ. Once we receive Jesus we are no longer sinners because Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

In John 8 a lot of people think the verse "Neither do I condemn thee go, and sin no more". is the main lesson of this example of the woman caught in the act of adulteries. But the main lesson is where He tells the scribes and Pharisees "he that is without sin among you let him cast the first stone." The main point being that the religious leaders were just as much sinners as the adulteress woman. The lesson being that it is wrong to condemn others who may not be living the Holy and righteous life that you think they should be, cause we're all just as much sinners as the next guy.

God is good777 said:

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

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Here is what we are not commanded...

"Grow by not sinning."


This is what we are commanded...

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." 2 Pet 3:18



In the mean time? Accept the following, and keep praying to the Father in Jesus name to find a good teacher ...

If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

.........

God is good777 said:

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

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None of us can stop sinning, it is our nature and we are not God, for none is good except God alone.

That said, we must truly repent and accept the Grace of God, for Jesus died for our sins and paid our penalty. So have faith in God, repent our sins and we will be saved through faith and grace.

God is good777 said:

When I know i have sinned I do not feel good about it all and I usually go right to prayer and ask God to forgive me and help me to let go of sin to cast it away.

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Then you are in good hands. The Holy Spirit is working on you. Sometimes we are just stubborn when He directs us into righteousness. Eventually your love for Jesus Christ of Nazareth will prevail. Be blessed.

Basil the Great said:

The "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine sounds very nice and is certainly reassuring. However, there is little evidence, if any, that many Christians accepted said belief until the past few centuries. Even today, the majority of the world's Christians do not profess such a belief. Now this does not necessarily mean that the doctrine is not sound. However, it should give all of us pause to wonder.....

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Augustine believed it, since he wrote this:

I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God.

It is shown with sufficient clearness that the grace of God, which both begins a man’s faith and which enables it to persevere unto the end, is not given according to our merits, but is given according to His own most secret and at the same time most righteous, wise, and beneficent will; since those whom He predestinated, them He also called.

When the gift of God is granted to them…none of the saints fails to keep his perseverance in holiness even to the end. (In De Perseverantiae).

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So then, one having the Spirit is both guided and kept by God. Peter wrote we are "kept by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Although it is true that antinomians and apostates lose their "salvation" (since they never had it), the true saints persevere in both faith and love for God and the brethren, thereby proving that God is in them willing and doing His good pleasure.

These are simply different words describing the same experience as "sabbath rest" that the writer of Hebrews is talking about. When Christians finally embrace the sufficiency of the work of Christ, that belief becomes the center of his life, heart, and thoughts, and the inner joy comes through as a constant "YES" that they are forever in the hands of God, and no one can take them out of His hand, and nothing can separate him from the love of God in Christ.
TD

God is good777 said:

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

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"8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."