Long Life or Eternal Life?

Mr. M · Jul 8, 2020

Seven times the Law promises long life for those who keep it.
Deuteronomy 4:1. 5:33. 8:1. 12:1. 16:20. 30:16. 31:13.
What of the promises of Life in Christ Jesus?
John 5:
24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when
the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.
John 8:51. Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My Word he shall never see death.

The evangel of Paul is consistent and clear in making this distinction.
For example:
Philippians 3:
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is
in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ,
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if by any means, I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

The Righteousness of God in Christ places higher expectations on believers than the righteousness of the Law, based on greater promises made, with the power of the Holy Spirit available to all who commit their trust to Christ.

If you abide in the Holy Spirit, you will not sin, and therefore meet the righteous requirements of the Law. Many have been found blameless in regards to the Law. So what does that afford them?
To live long on the land of inheritance.
What of those who obey Christ?
The distinction is abundantly clear.
We can have the full assurance of our faith.

Hebrews 8:6. But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

Dkh587 · Jul 9, 2020

The law teaches eternal life:

Luke 10:25-28

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Jesus said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

And the lawyer answering said, Thou shalt love Yahweh thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live

all the verses you posted from Deuteronomy are teaching eternal life.

Mr. M · Jul 9, 2020

Dkh587 said:
The law teaches eternal life:

Luke 10:25-28

So then we agree with Messiah that all the Law is fulfilled in these two?
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength,
and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.
No, I do not believe a teacher of the Law believed this, he was trying to use Messiah's own words
against Him, as the narrative states: to test Him. Messiah dealt with him as it is written:

Psalm 18:26. With the pure You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd.

Anyone familiar with the Gospels knows that the Pharisees and lawyers were constantly
trying to use Messiah's words against Him, as here, when we continue the narrative:

Luke 10:29. But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Luke 16:15. And He said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men,
but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination
in the sight of God.

If you are going to make this claim "The Law teaches eternal life",
then please teach it from the Law.

Mr. M · Jul 9, 2020

Dkh587 said:
all the verses you posted from Deuteronomy are teaching eternal life.

If it is true that all the blessings of long life in the land=eternal life,
then all the curses for not keeping the Law=eternal death.
I think we know that is not true.
Romans 11:
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.

The Law of Moses presented carnal commandments for long life in the land,
Messiah came to give "life more abundantly".
Hebrews 7:16. Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment,
but after the power of an endless life.

Eternal Life came by the resurrection of the Messiah, or He died for nothing.
This is the Old Covenant
Deuteronomy 30:
15 See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them,
18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.

Der Alte · Jul 9, 2020

Baby Tiger said:
Seven times the Law promises long life for those who keep it.
Deuteronomy 4:1. 5:33. 8:1. 12:1. 16:20. 30:16. 31:13.
What of the promises of Life in Christ Jesus?
John 5:
24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when
the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.
John 8:51. Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My Word he shall never see death.
The evangel of Paul is consistent and clear in making this distinction.
For example:
Philippians 3:
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is
in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ,
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if by any means, I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
The Righteousness of God in Christ places higher expectations on believers than the righteousness of the Law, based on greater promises made, with the power of the Holy Spirit available to all who commit their trust to Christ.
If you abide in the Holy Spirit, you will not sin, and therefore meet the righteous requirements of the Law. Many have been found blameless in regards to the Law. So what does that afford them?
To live long on the land of inheritance.
What of those who obey Christ?
The distinction is abundantly clear.
We can have the full assurance of our faith.
Hebrews 8:6. But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

I think the answer to your question hinges on the meaning of the Greek word "aionios." Some heterodox religious groups translate it with the nonsensical term "age during." "Aionios" is an adjective, in alternate definitions "age" is a noun and "during" is a verb.
So they have changed an adjective into a noun and a verb to make it fit their assumptions/presuppositions.
The heterodox groups can produce a bunch of Bible so-called literal translations which translate "aionios" as "age during" or some other expression that does not mean eternal.
I have one version which trumps all their so-called literal versions.
…..Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the “literal” Greek Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios,”“kolasis?” etc.
…..In the EOB, footnote pg. 180

“Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).”

= = = = = = = = = =
The Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96

Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.

= = = = = = = = = =

KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Paul, the same writer, in the same writing Romans, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou, in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below. Showing conclusively that “aionios” means “eternal/everlsasting.”
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. Whoever has doubts/questions about the EOB version I suggest they read the 200 page preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.…
= = = = = = = = = =
…..In the following 10 verses, Jesus, whether knowingly or not, defines/describes “aiōnios” as “eternal” and “aiōn” as “eternity.”
Jesus used the word “aiōnios” 28 times, He never used “aiōnios” to refer to something ordinary or mundane which is not/cannot be eternal.
[1]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aiōnios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios life” with “death.” If “live aiōnios” is living only a finite period, that is not opposite “death.” Thus “aiōnios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[2-3]John 10:28-29
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life, and they shall never [ου μη/ou mé] [αἰών/aiōn] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
(29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
ou mé, vs. 28, signifies in nowise, by no means, never, [fn] below. In these three verses Jesus defines both “aiōnios” and “aiōn” as “eternal” with these three phrases, “[not] snatch them out of my hand,” “never perish,” and “no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.” If “aion/aiōnios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “never perish,[not] snatch them out of my hand/the father’s hand”
[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In these two verses Jesus pairs “aiōnion” with “should not perish,” twice. Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aiōnion life” here means eternal/everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus defines “aiōnios” as “eternal” with the phrases “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aiōnios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless at some point, Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios life” with “shall not see life.” If aiōnios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition here aiōnios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never [ ου μη/ou mé] be thirsty again. Not only this, the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life.”
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Easter/Greek Orthodox Bible:New Testament. (Jn 4:13–14). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.
In this verse Jesus contrasts aiōnios with “shall never ου μη/ou mé thirst.” ου μη/ou mé means “in nowise, by no means,” [fn] below. Aiōnios cannot mean an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aiōnios here means eternal.
[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aiōnios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aiōnios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51
(51) [αμην αμην/amen amen], I tell you; whoever keeps my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death.”[1]Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death."
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Easter/Greek Orthodox Bible:New Testament.
[fn]● The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.
Word Studies in the New Testament, Marvin Vincent.
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.

1213 · Jul 9, 2020

Baby Tiger said:
...The Righteousness of God in Christ places higher expectations on believers than the righteousness of the Law,...

I think there is only one kind of righteousness. And if person is righteous truly, it will come visible in actions. And similarly, as you can know is the tree good or bad from it fruits, you can also know is person righteous or unrighteous from his fruits. Actions or faith is only the result of righteousness, not the reason of righteousness.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Dkh587 · Jul 9, 2020

Baby Tiger said:
So then we agree with Messiah that all the Law is fulfilled in these two?
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength,
and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.
No, I do not believe a teacher of the Law believed this, he was trying to use Messiah's own words
against Him, as the narrative states: to test Him. Messiah dealt with him as it is written:

Psalm 18:26. With the pure You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd.

Anyone familiar with the Gospels knows that the Pharisees and lawyers were constantly
trying to use Messiah's words against Him, as here, when we continue the narrative:

Luke 10:29. But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Luke 16:15. And He said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men,
but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination
in the sight of God.

If you are going to make this claim "The Law teaches eternal life",
then please teach it from the Law.

The picture that the law paints is loving God(obeying his commandments), and loving your neighbor as yourself - the individual commandments can be likened to the colors of paint that make up the picture.

do you agree with the Messiah that to love God with all your heart, soul & strength and loving your neighbor as yourself will give you eternal life?

When the man asks him how does he inherit eternal life, why would the Messiah go directly to the law, and then tell the man he is correct when he says that obeying Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:28 will give him eternal life, if the law doesn’t teach how to get eternal life?

Dkh587 · Jul 9, 2020

Baby Tiger said:
If it is true that all the blessings of long life in the land=eternal life,
then all the curses for not keeping the Law=eternal death.
I think we know that is not true.
Romans 11:
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.

The Law of Moses presented carnal commandments for long life in the land,
Messiah came to give "life more abundantly".
Hebrews 7:16. Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment,
but after the power of an endless life.

Eternal Life came by the resurrection of the Messiah, or He died for nothing.
This is the Old Covenant
Deuteronomy 30:
15 See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them,
18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.

When God says “I set before you life and death”, he’s talking about eternal life.

They were already alive, so it would be redundant to refer to their current state of living.

Mr. M · Jul 14, 2020

Matthew 19:
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 Honor your father and your mother,’ and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?
21 Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Luke 18:22. So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, You still lack one thing.
Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven;
and come, follow Me.

John 14:15. If you love Me, keep My commandments.

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Long Life or Eternal Life?

Mr. M

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Dkh587

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Mr. M

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Mr. M

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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.

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1213

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Dkh587

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Mr. M

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