A brief narrative

Douggg · Jul 4, 2020

Israel for most of the 1260 days will think that the person is the messiah, but is the Antichrist. Near the end of the 1260 days, he betrays Israel, and will become the beast. The image of him made and placed on the temple mount grounds. The signal for the Jews to begin fleeing into the wilderness.

The beast kills the two witnesses as they are fleeing. The 7th angel sounds his trumpet shorty after, and the war in the second heaven ensues, with Satan and his angels cast down to earth. The Jews realize their mistake with Jesus, and turn to him, verse 10. Revelation 12:10.

The Jews continue fleeing into the wilderness for the remaining time, times, half time trying to escape the persecution coming when Satan incarnates the great statue image on the temple mount grounds which Jews are rounded up by the false prophet and forced to bow or be beheaded (so horrible I hate to even write about it). The beast walking in and out of the sanctuary building to oversee it.

The beast and the false prophet are both going to be thrown alive into the lake of fire by Jesus when He returns, to take vengeance on behalf of the martyred great tribulation saints and His own vengeance as well.

Dave L · Jul 4, 2020

Douggg said:
View attachment 280254

Israel for most of the 1260 days will think that the person is the messiah, but is the Antichrist. Near the end of the 1260 days, he betrays Israel, and will become the beast. The image of him made and placed on the temple mount grounds. The signal for the Jews to begin fleeing into the wilderness.

The beast kills the two witnesses as they are fleeing. The 7th angel sounds his trumpet shorty after, and the war in the second heaven ensues, with Satan and his angels cast down to earth. The Jews realize their mistake with Jesus, and turn to him, verse 10. Revelation 12:10.

The Jews continue fleeing into the wilderness for the remaining time, times, half time trying to escape the persecution coming when Satan incarnates the great statue image on the temple mount grounds which Jews are rounded up by the false prophet and forced to bow or be beheaded (so horrible I hate to even write about it). The beast walking in and out of the sanctuary building to oversee it.

The beast and the false prophet are both going to be thrown alive into the lake of fire by Jesus when He returns, to take vengeance on behalf of the martyred great tribulation saints and His own vengeance as well.

View attachment 280255

Jesus removed physical Israel from Biblical when he abolished circumcision. You can call them Israel in name only. Biblical Israel is believers only. “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him ‘Amen’, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (NCPB)

Douggg · Jul 4, 2020

Dave L said:
Jesus removed physical Israel from Biblical when he abolished circumcision. You can call them Israel in name only. Biblical Israel is believers only. “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him ‘Amen’, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (NCPB)

"The Jews realize their mistake with Jesus, and turn to him, verse 10. Revelation 12:10."

keras · Jul 4, 2020

Douggg said:
"The Jews realize their mistake with Jesus, and turn to him, verse 10. Revelation 12:10."

Revelation 12:10 has nothing to do with the Jews. The 'woman' is Christians.
Your idea that the people who call themselves Jews, will 'turn to Jesus' before His Returns, is false and is never prophesied to happen.

Your list in #1, does not have any reason or event that enables the 'little horn' to become a leader. Not of the current Israel, but of the world, as Daniel 7:23 tells us.

Douggg · Jul 4, 2020

keras said:
Revelation 12:10 has nothing to do with the Jews. The 'woman' is Christians.
Your idea that the people who call themselves Jews, will 'turn to Jesus' before His Returns, is false and is never prophesied to happen.

Your list in #1, does not have any reason or event that enables the 'little horn' to become a leader. Not of the current Israel, but of the world, as Daniel 7:23 tells us.

Keras, separately, care to make a stand in my thread?

Where do you fit ?

Douggg · Jul 4, 2020

keras said:
Your list in #1, does not have any reason or event that enables the 'little horn' to become a leader. Not of the current Israel, but of the world, as Daniel 7:23 tells us.

No it doesn't. Nor is it going to have.

That doesn't prevent you from having your own rationale and theories though, and expressing them.

5thKingdom · Jul 5, 2020

Douggg said:
View attachment 280254

Israel for most of the 1260 days will think that the person is the messiah, but is the Antichrist. Near the end of the 1260 days, he betrays Israel, and will become the beast. The image of him made and placed on the temple mount grounds. The signal for the Jews to begin fleeing into the wilderness.

Israel is not even involved in the 1260 days.

(1) That is the period when the "woman" (the church) is protected [Rev 12]

(2) That period when the Two Witnesses (the church) testify during
the Great Commission. [Rev 11]

(3) That period is BEFORE the Two Witness are "killed" for 3.5 "days" and 3.5 "times"
and 3.5 years (42 mos) and 3.5 "watches of the night"

Your "brief narrative" does not even pass the "giggle test"
when you omit the church and pretend Israel is the focus
of Revelations and/or the Great Tribulation and/or
Daniel's Fourth Beast.

Such an imagination and so little Bible harmony.

.

keras · Jul 5, 2020

Douggg said:
No it doesn't. Nor is it going to have. .

So do you expect the nations to gift their sovereignty to one person? Without any kind of reason to do so?
Of course you are still fixated on the practically defunct European Union. I suggest you give up flogging that dead horse.

Why can't you see what the prophesies do say? 2 Peter 3:1-7 puts it clearly.

5thKingdom · Jul 5, 2020

keras said:
So do you expect the nations to gift their sovereignty to one person? Without any kind of reason to do so?
Of course you are still fixated on the practically defunct European Union. I suggest you give up flogging that dead horse.

Why can't you see what the prophesies do say? 2 Peter 3:1-7 puts it clearly.

A better question... why do you think the CONTEXT is political kingdoms?
If the CONTEXT of the Revelation Beast and Daniel's Fourth Beast and
the Great Tribulation is THE CHURCH... then why would anyone think
the CONTEXT of events associated with those kingdoms is in physical
and political kingdoms?

Dan 7:24-25
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise:
and another [Little horn] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from
the first [ten horns], and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak
great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the
most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given
into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

.

Dave L · Jul 5, 2020

Douggg said:
"The Jews realize their mistake with Jesus, and turn to him, verse 10. Revelation 12:10."

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, ‘Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.” Revelation 12:10 (NCPB)

How so?

Douggg · Jul 5, 2020

keras said:
So do you expect the nations to gift their sovereignty to one person? Without any kind of reason to do so?
Of course you are still fixated on the practically defunct European Union. I suggest you give up flogging that dead horse.

Why can't you see what the prophesies do say? 2 Peter 3:1-7 puts it clearly.

We will have to see how he final evolution of the EU take place, which has a ten leader form of government and one leader over them. Whether it is by universal vote, like the U.S. President is elected, or by the ten kings appointing him by consensus instead - remains to be seen. He will not be dictator initially. The dictatorship takes place for the last 42 months.

Douggg · Jul 5, 2020

Dave L said:
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, ‘Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.” Revelation 12:10 (NCPB)

How so?

Have to take into consideration that the woman is Israel, throughout Revelation 12. And that the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 is the 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 that the two witnesses are testifying.

The seven years are in both Revelation 11 and Revelation 12.

Revelation 11
1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256.5 days) = 2520 days the seven years.

Revelation 12
1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half times = 2520 days, the seven years.

Since the two witnesses are killed and their bodies lay in the street of Jerusalem, it is in Jerusalem they are testifying. And one of the things will have to be flee when they see
the abomination desolation standing in the holy place - because the Jews don't know what is in the new testament.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ [to the Jews]: for the accuser of our brethren [the Jews] is cast down, which accused them [the Jews] before our God day and night.

Right here on this boards, you can read how many have accused Israel (the nation of the Jews over there) of never being able en masse to receive Jesus, and Israel of the Tanach foreshaken forever because of that first generation's rejection of Jesus.

When instead we should be considering them our brothers, lost and blind, fallen but not permanently fallen. And many of them, can't even be talked to, so harden is their hearts of stone. Which God say He will change and give them an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

In Ezekiel 39, following Gog/Magog, verse 7.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

The Jews when exiled to the nations, effectively it polluted and profaned God's name, because it made it look like God was incapable of defending his people, to keep it from happening.

Dave L · Jul 5, 2020

Douggg said:
Have to take into consideration that the woman is Israel, throughout Revelation 12. And that the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 is the 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 that the two witnesses are testifying.

The seven years are in both Revelation 11 and Revelation 12.

Revelation 11
1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256.5 days) = 2520 days the seven years.

Revelation 12
1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half times = 2520 days, the seven years.

Since the two witnesses are killed and their bodies lay in the street of Jerusalem, it is in Jerusalem they are testifying. And one of the things will have to be flee when they see
the abomination desolation standing in the holy place - because the Jews don't know what is in the new testament.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ [to the Jews]: for the accuser of our brethren [the Jews] is cast down, which accused them [the Jews] before our God day and night.

Right here on this boards, you can read how many have accused Israel (the nation of the Jews over there) of never being able en masse to receive Jesus, and Israel of the Tanach foreshaken because of that first generation's rejection of Jesus.

When instead we should be considering them our brothers, lost and blind, fallen but not permanently fallen. And many of them, can't even be talked to, so harden is their hearts of stone. Which God say he will change and give them an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

In Ezekiel 39, following Gog/Magog, verse 7.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

The Jews when exiled to the nations, effectively it polluted and profaned God's name, because it made it look like God was incapable of defending his people, to keep it from happening.

Israel = the Church. A major mistake you're making here.

5thKingdom · Jul 5, 2020

Dave L said:
Israel = the Church. A major mistake you're making here.

Of course Israel does NOT = the church
Israel has been rejected LONG AGO

Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be TAKEN
from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.

.

5thKingdom · Jul 5, 2020

Douggg said:
Have to take into consideration that the woman is Israel, throughout Revelation 12. And that the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 is the 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 that the two witnesses are testifying.

The seven years are in both Revelation 11 and Revelation 12.

Revelation 11
1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256.5 days) = 2520 days the seven years.

Revelation 12
1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half times = 2520 days, the seven years.

Since the two witnesses are killed and their bodies lay in the street of Jerusalem, it is in Jerusalem they are testifying. And one of the things will have to be flee when they see
the abomination desolation standing in the holy place - because the Jews don't know what is in the new testament.
.

(1) The 1260 days of the "woman" and the Two Witness = the Great Commssion
of the NT church

(2) the 3.5 "times" and 3.5 "days" and 3.5 years (42 mos) and 3.5 "watches
of the night = the Great Tribulation or Revelation Beast.

(3) They are both figurative language representng DiFFERENT periods...
you have no (Biblical) reason to add them together.

(4) the works of your hands are refuted by Scripture

.

Dave L · Jul 5, 2020

5thKingdom said:
Of course Israel does NOT = the church
Israel has been rejected LONG AGO

Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be TAKEN
from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.

.

Did you know Jesus IS Isreal in the NT? He and his body, the Church, are biblical Israel.

5thKingdom · Jul 5, 2020

Dave L said:
Did you know Jesus IS Isreal in the NT? He and his body, the Church, are biblical Israel.

But, of course, those looking for Israel in the end-time prophecies
are looking for NATIONAL ISRAEL... which is NOT included in ANY
end-time prophecies except those talking about the unsaved.

Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be TAKEN
from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.

.

keras · Jul 5, 2020

Douggg said:
We will have to see how he final evolution of the EU take place, which has a ten leader form of government and one leader over them. Whether it is by universal vote, like the U.S. President is elected, or by the ten kings appointing him by instead - remains to be seen. He will not be dictator initially. The dictatorship takes place for the last 42 months.

The prophesies are clear; there is coming a worldwide disaster of Noahic proportions, that will make the nations establish a One World Government, divided into 10 regions, each ruled by an appointed President. Soon one Dictator will take full control.
Why can you not see this?

5thKingdom said:
But, of course, those looking for Israel in the end-time prophecies
are looking for NATIONAL ISRAEL... which is NOT included in ANY
end-time prophecies except those talking about the unsaved.

The ONLY Israel in the end times will be the Israelites of God.
You are right, but it is those who have been brainwashed by Dispensationism, who must have a national Israel, namely the Jews around in order to suit their beliefs.

Over 20 clearly stated prophesies tell of the virtual demise of Jewish Israel, Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27

5thKingdom · Jul 6, 2020

keras said:
The prophesies are clear; there is coming a worldwide disaster of Noahic proportions, that will make the nations establish a One World Government, divided into 10 regions, each ruled by an appointed President. Soon one Dictator will take full control. Why can you not see this?

Understanding that the Revelation Beast = the Great Tribulation =
Daniel's Fourth Beast (since each ends with the Return of Christ)

Then we must accept that the "ten virgins" of the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" are the same people as the ten "kings/horns"
of Daniel 7 and Revelation 17 and all these people are in the CHURCH.
They are not political nations or presidents.

Mat 25:1
Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Dan 7:24-25
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall
arise: and another [Little Horn] shall rise after them; and he shall
be diverse from the first [ten horns], and he shall subdue three
kings. [the Last Saints] And he shall speak great words against the
most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and think to change times and laws: and they [the ten horns/kings]
shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing
of time. [3.5 "times" represents the Revelation Beast]

Rev 17:12-13
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have
received no kingdom as yet; [during the Great Commission] but
receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one
mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Rev 17:17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree,
and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words
of God shall be fulfilled.

.

Douggg · Jul 8, 2020

Why my narrative is correct.

In Matthew 24:15-16 Jesus told them in Judea to flee to the mountains when they see Abomination of Desolation setup. It is because Jews in Judea will be rounded up and forced to bow to the great statue setup on the temple grounds or be killed.

from my narrative...

"The Jews continue fleeing into the wilderness for the remaining time, times, half time trying to escape the persecution coming when Satan incarnates the great statue image on the temple mount grounds which Jews are rounded up by the false prophet and forced to bow or be beheaded (so horrible I hate to even write about it). The beast walking in and out of the sanctuary building to oversee it."

A brief narrative

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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