Problems with Ezekiel 38-39 as Prophecy for Our Time

shilohsfoal

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Shiloh, I'll reply in more detail but first I'd like to point something out.

Shiloh: "Only those in Christ are blessed.. Muslims are not. The majority of Egypt is Muslim. The same as Assyria. Assyria is also destroyed in this same war."

You seem to be saying that God will destroy Egypt because Egypt is Muslim. Why? The Muslim world reaches from Morocco to Indonesia. Why does God destroy Egypt in particular? Especially if He isn't going to do the same the rest of the Muslim world?

Assyria is destroyed in the same war? There is no such country as Assyria. There are only about two thousand ethnic Assyrians in the world.

Assyria is in the same location it always has.
Isaiah 19:23 In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt, and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together.

And Egypt is destroyed because it comes against Jerusalem.Indonesia doesn't.
 
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Marilyn C

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Marilyn,


Welcome to Christian Forums, since you are a Newbie.

While it's hard to say how the world would react to such a move, a few points should be kept in mind. Russia under Vladimir Putin has shown itself to be expansionist by its actions in the Crimea. The Syrian regime, under Assad, has killed tens of thousands of its own people in a lengthy civil war. The number of deaths amounts to genocide, at least in numbers. It is difficult to believe the world will forget these things anytime soon. Someone can make a legalistic case that Israel doesn't own the Golan Heights but it is difficult to believe the people who live there would be better off as combatants in the Syrian civil war.


Suppose that Syria stabilizes enough to consider such an adventure. If Russia allied with Syria to take the Golan Heights, would any of the world's leaders be foolish enough to think Russia would stop with the Golan Heights?

I believe the Russian Federation will enter the Golan Heights early next year, (March). Thus we wont have long to wait to see if I am on track.

We know from Ezekiel`s prophetic word that Britain & the USA, plus Saudi Arabia will challenge Russia, verbally but not enter into a war. God deals with the Russian Federation Himself.
 
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BABerean2

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I believe the Russian Federation will enter the Golan Heights early next year, (March). Thus we wont have long to wait to see if I am on track.

We know from Ezekiel`s prophetic word that Britain & the USA, plus Saudi Arabia will challenge Russia, verbally but not enter into a war. God deals with the Russian Federation Himself.


Do you believe God will defend the city found in the verse below?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.
 
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keras

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Do you believe God will defend the city found in the verse below?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified..
As Isaiah 29:1-4 and many other prophesies tell us; Jerusalem is about to be flattened in the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Only an remnant of the Jews, the Christians, will survive by hiding underground, as verse 4 so well describes.

The city will be rebuilt, incl the Temple, to the Glory of God, by the new inhabitants. Isaiah 58:12, Amos 9:14, +
 
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Marilyn C

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Do you believe God will defend the city found in the verse below?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.

The Russian Federation will be dealt with, by God, on the mountains of the Golan heights. (Ez. 38: 21 & 22)

As to Jerusalem we know that half of Jerusalem will be ransacked at the end of the tribulation, but the Lord will come and `fight against those nations` that go against Jerusalem. (Zech. 14: 2 & 3)
 
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Dave L

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I believe the Russian Federation will enter the Golan Heights early next year, (March). Thus we wont have long to wait to see if I am on track.

We know from Ezekiel`s prophetic word that Britain & the USA, plus Saudi Arabia will challenge Russia, verbally but not enter into a war. God deals with the Russian Federation Himself.
Ezekiel says Gog and Magog were trying to steal Israel's cattle with swords and spears on horseback. How does this fit Modern Russia? Are you adding your ideas to God's word creating a false prophecy?
 
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BABerean2

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The Russian Federation will be dealt with, by God, on the mountains of the Golan heights. (Ez. 38: 21 & 22)

As to Jerusalem we know that half of Jerusalem will be ransacked at the end of the tribulation, but the Lord will come and `fight against those nations` that go against Jerusalem. (Zech. 14: 2 & 3)


Which of the Jerusalems found below are you talking about?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


.
 
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BABerean2

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As Isaiah 29:1-4 and many other prophesies tell us; Jerusalem is about to be flattened in the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Only an remnant of the Jews, the Christians, will survive by hiding underground, as verse 4 so well describes.

The city will be rebuilt, incl the Temple, to the Glory of God, by the new inhabitants. Isaiah 58:12, Amos 9:14, +

The third temple is found in the passage below.
God now dwells in His people, through the Holy Spirit.
He no longer needs a temple built of earthly stones, because Christ is now the chief cornerstone.



1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


.
 
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Dale

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The place where there are mountains and unwalled villages is the Golan Heights in the north of Israel on the Syrian border. The (far) northern army, Russia, is building up its military in Syria. It has a port, three military bases and an airport in Syria. Also Iran is presently there, as well as Russia helping out Libya in its civil war.

Next we need to realise that the UN and most countries of the world do not recognise Israel`s ownership of the Golan Heights. Israel took it in the 6 day war, (1967). So if and when the Russian Federation decides to go and take the Golan Heights, (for Syria) then the world will not come against them



View attachment 280347

View attachment 280348



There is a border fence between the Golan Heights in Syria. The following story is from an Australian source, dated April 19, 2018.



Fence dividing Israeli-occupied Golan Heights from Syria
also cutting through families as war rages

Heading: Fence has become part of daily life

Caption: Members of the Druze religious group are separated by a border fence.(ABC News: Tim Stevens)


Link
Golan Heights fence dividing Israel from Syria also cutting through families as war rages
 
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Dale

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Really? Assyria has no borders, so I don't know "Assyria will be destroyed" means.

The handful of people alive today who identify themselves as Assyrians are members of the Assyrian Church of the East. They are Nestorian Christians. I understand what you said about Muslims not having God's blessing. Why is God going to destroy Nestorian Christians?
 
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DavidPT

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Which of the Jerusalems found below are you talking about?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


.

Let's assume it's meaning the one in verse 26.


Zechariah 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

That would indicate that we have to apply Jerusalem in the same manner here as well. We then end up with the text basically saying----All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

I had no clue though, that there could even be the south of something that is not even literal. But if we make Jerusalem a literal place geographically located, then compass directions, such as south, tend to make sense, in regards to it.

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

This is meaning the very same Jerusalem in verse 2. Should this be understood like such---And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all, on the east?

I just can't see Jerusalem in Zechariah 14 fitting any other sense than a literal city. Because IMO, if what one takes something to mean, and if they insert that meaning into the text, like I did above, and that it results in nonsense rather than perfect sense, that's a pretty good indication that that one might need to chunk that interpretation and try one that doesn't make nonsense of any of the texts involved.
 
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shilohsfoal

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Really? Assyria has no borders, so I don't know "Assyria will be destroyed" means.

The handful of people alive today who identify themselves as Assyrians are members of the Assyrian Church of the East. They are Nestorian Christians. I understand what you said about Muslims not having God's blessing. Why is God going to destroy Nestorian Christians?

I didn't say God was going to destroy Christians.
Just because Lot and his family lived in Sodom and Sodom was to be destroyed didn't mean Lot was going to be destroyed. All of the promised land is going to be destroyed. Everyone in that kingdom that does not belong to Christ will be removed.
Do you understand where the boundaries of the promised land are?
 
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BABerean2

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Let's assume it's meaning the one in verse 26.


Zechariah 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

That would indicate that we have to apply Jerusalem in the same manner here as well. We then end up with the text basically saying----All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

I had no clue though, that there could even be the south of something that is not even literal. But if we make Jerusalem a literal place geographically located, then compass directions, such as south, tend to make sense, in regards to it.

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

This is meaning the very same Jerusalem in verse 2. Should this be understood like such---And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all, on the east?

I just can't see Jerusalem in Zechariah 14 fitting any other sense than a literal city. Because IMO, if what one takes something to mean, and if they insert that meaning into the text, like I did above, and that it results in nonsense rather than perfect sense, that's a pretty good indication that that one might need to chunk that interpretation and try one that doesn't make nonsense of any of the texts involved.


We find the greatest earthquake in history in Revelation chapter 16, along with Christ coming as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16.

It is my understanding that this earthquake occurs when His sinless heel touches the earth at the Mount of Olives. This starts the reversal of the curse.
This begins the destruction of planet Earth as we know it, and leads to the New Heavens and the New Earth, found in Hebrews 11:14-16, and 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Revelation 3:12. It is our promised land.

.
 
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Douggg

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Ezekiel says Gog and Magog were trying to steal Israel's cattle with swords and spears on horseback. How does this fit Modern Russia? Are you adding your ideas to God's word creating a false prophecy?
Dave, I don't think anyone here is altering the words of the text. Posters are giving their interpretations and application of what that text means and how it applies, in the context of the prophecy given to Ezekiel.
 
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Marilyn C

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Ezekiel says Gog and Magog were trying to steal Israel's cattle with swords and spears on horseback. How does this fit Modern Russia? Are you adding your ideas to God's word creating a false prophecy?

God`s words says that the Russian Federation thinks they will `go up against a land of unwalled villages, (Golan Heights) ....and against a people who have acquired livestock and goods,...` (Ez. 38: 11 & 12)

So we see that those living in that area have livestock. We have livestock on our land here in Oz. So nothing strange there. As to swords well we know that many soldiers have a sword on the end of their gun for close combat.

If you read the prophet Joel`s account you will see that this great army do go in close formation. (Joel 2: 6 - 9) Also because of the terrain horseback will be a much better means of advancing. The peoples from the far north do like to use their horses. Not all countries are rich as the USA so their military does comprise of horses too.
 
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Marilyn C

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Which of the Jerusalems found below are you talking about?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


.

The earthly Jerusalem will be attacked but the Lord will defend it.

`So the Lord of hosts will come down to fight for Mount Zion and for its hill. Like birds flying about, so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem. Defending he will also deliver it; passing over, He will preserve it.` (Isa. 31: 4 & 5)
 
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Marilyn C

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There is a border fence between the Golan Heights in Syria. The following story is from an Australian source, dated April 19, 2018.



Fence dividing Israeli-occupied Golan Heights from Syria
also cutting through families as war rages

Heading: Fence has become part of daily life

Caption: Members of the Druze religious group are separated by a border fence.(ABC News: Tim Stevens)


Link
Golan Heights fence dividing Israel from Syria also cutting through families as war rages

Good info. So we see that it says `Israel-occupied Golan Heights from Syria.` That is what the world thinks. `Israel occupied.` Not part of Israel but `occupied.` The fence divides the two countries but is not a `walled` area of Israel.

Interesting to note also that Russia is part of the UN ones that do the border patrol. That`s like having the fox patrol the chicken coop!
 
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Dale

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Do you believe God will defend the city found in the verse below?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.

Which of the Jerusalems found below are you talking about?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

.


Berean, I'm glad that you support Jews for Jesus.

You seem to be preoccupied with Jerusalem. Jerusalem is not the source of all that is wrong with the world.

You quote Paul in Galatians. Paul is arguing with Judaizers. That is why Paul makes such a stark contrast with the Old Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem. The Old Jerusalem he is talking about is the ways of the Judaizers, who won't let go of old customs that are not needed. We are not concerned with Judaizers here.

Let me quote a couple of passages from Isaiah.

On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.
7 On this mountain he will destroy
the shroud that enfolds all peoples,
the sheet that covers all nations;
8 he will swallow up death forever.
The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears
from all faces;
he will remove his people’s disgrace
from all the earth.
The Lord has spoken.
Isaiah 25:7-8 NIV

2 In the last days
the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;

it will be exalted above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.
Isaiah 2:2 NIV

The mountain that Isaiah is talking about in both Chapter 2 and Chapter 25 is Mount Zion, in Jerusalem. When he says that Mt. Zion will be the highest of mountains, I suspect that this will be allegorical, it won't literally be higher than Mt. Everest. It will simply be the most important location in the world, and recognized for what it is. Isaiah says that God will destroy death forever on that mountain. He doesn't say that the old mountain has to be destroyed first and replaced by a new one for that to happen.
 
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Dave L

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God`s words says that the Russian Federation thinks they will `go up against a land of unwalled villages, (Golan Heights) ....and against a people who have acquired livestock and goods,...` (Ez. 38: 11 & 12)

So we see that those living in that area have livestock. We have livestock on our land here in Oz. So nothing strange there. As to swords well we know that many soldiers have a sword on the end of their gun for close combat.

If you read the prophet Joel`s account you will see that this great army do go in close formation. (Joel 2: 6 - 9) Also because of the terrain horseback will be a much better means of advancing. The peoples from the far north do like to use their horses. Not all countries are rich as the USA so their military does comprise of horses too.
Quote the scripture that says this or people will think you are a false prophet.
 
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Dave L

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Dave, I don't think anyone here is altering the words of the text. Posters are giving their interpretations and application of what that text means and how it applies, in the context of the prophecy given to Ezekiel.
So do you think Russia, never mentioned even once, is going to invade Israel and try to steal their cattle using spears and horses?
 
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