Why is this An Abomination?

Brightmoon

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You do understand that transvestites and transexuals are 2 completely different things . And one has nothing to do with the other . Transvestites like cross dressing they might or might not be gay or trans
 
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Brightmoon

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Well if it were just creative habits, that would be one thing. But dressing is a heart issue! Why would a man wish to look like a woman? Why does a woman wish to wear mens clothes? I am not talking about things like pants suits designed for women, but to go into say Brooks brothers and buy a mans suit to wear!

Though the new testament does not specifically prohibit it, it does cross norms and does lead to further degradation like transvestites, trans sexualism etc. Most young boys long ago (at least according ot eh surveys) loved their moms and would sometimes dress like them to wanna be like them because of the love a mom had for their son. But they grew out of that!

Men wearing earrings in the modern age came from a rebellious attitude. To defy cultural norms! But wearing bras and panties and skirts etc. I snot just a creative habit, but a sign of something in the heart!
. Any man who WANTS to wear a bra is welcome to do so. They’re so uncomfortable and you can’t move your arms freely!
 
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coffee4u

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I guess it’s just me I don’t really see anything wrong with cross dressing as it’s just people following either a creative streak or people who like to be different. I had a former neighbor who dressed in women’s clothes and frankly he looked silly in Men’s clothes. I’ve got better things to do than to waste my time over other people’s silly or harmless creative habits

God never said it was a silly or creative habit he says its an abomination.

Deuteronomy 22:5

“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

You do understand that transvestites and transexuals are 2 completely different things . And one has nothing to do with the other . Transvestites like cross dressing they might or might not be gay or trans

God didn't make laws for funsies, there were real reasons behind them. All the laws had a purpose. Some pointed towards Jesus but others were for our mental, spiritual and physical health. Dabbling in them harms us even if we don't see it.
God does not want people cross-dressing for sexual kink, that falls under sexuality immorality. Sexual immorality in all of its many forms harms us mentally, physically and spiritually.
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.

Likewise thinking yourself to be the opposite gender is harmful to body, soul and spirit.
 
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coffee4u

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Y’all don’t get it . It’s not God saying these . The BIBLE says that God said this. In any court in the country that would be discarded as hearsay !

A court of law is a secular space.
The Bible is God's word to us.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
So yes, I do view it as God himself telling us these things. If you don't view the Bible as God's word, what are you left with? Just how you feel?
 
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Brightmoon

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You don’t get it! The Bible has been edited so much over the centuries and the culture that it came from was so misogynistic and homophobic that I will question if I should be agreeing with these behaviors or not. If the behavior is silly or even harmless like the mixed fabric prohibition, I’ll ignore it just like most modern people do. If the behavior is toxic I just won’t do it. Period . Cross dressing is a silly harmless thing . I can’t see why y’all get your panties in a twist about it. And don’t say God said these . This came out of that Bronze Age culture and was grandfathered in.
 
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Mr. M

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You don’t get it! The Bible has been edited so much over the centuries and the culture that it came from was so misogynistic and homophobic that I will question if I should be agreeing with these behaviors or not. If the behavior is silly or even harmless like the mixed fabric prohibition, I’ll ignore it just like most modern people do. If the behavior is toxic I just won’t do it. Period . Cross dressing is a silly harmless thing . I can’t see why y’all get your panties in a twist about it. And don’t say God said these . This came out of that Bronze Age culture and was grandfathered in.
You never responded to this previous post, so I will politely ask again.
What do you think about this scenario? Detestable to God?


Consider this pleasant example, men who completely take on the appearance of a woman
for the sake of committing acts of prostitution. Would that be an abomination?

Hebrews 4:12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and
a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The Lord is the Spirit of Truth. The enemy is a spirit of deception.
What is the thoughts or motives behind a man dressing as a woman?
Was there a deliberate attempt to deceive? Commit a crime?


You are trivializing the Law of Moses on the premise that it is based
on archaic cultural mores.
You do greatly err, not knowing the scriptures, or the power of God.
Divorce is commonplace in our society.
Does that change our opinion of the subject,

or does the words of the Messiah Himself still bear weight?
 
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Deuteronomy 22:5. A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the Lord your God.

Today: We know it is generally considered wrong if a man dresses up in women clothing trying to look like a woman, and if it is wrong for a woman to dress using men's clothing that does not really fit them in attempt to look more like a man. The heart of this rule I believe is... does a person appear to look like the opposite sex by the type of clothing that they are wearing today? Are they wearing more men's clothing than women's clothing? This is at the heart of the issue here.

Yes, I do believe we have to take culture into consideration here. At one point in time, In our culture, it was considered unacceptable in English speaking countries for women to wear pants. This has appeared to have changed in World War II.

Check out this article here:
A brief history of women’s fight to wear pants

Today: A person does not regard a woman wearing pants as dressing like a man or with them attempting to be more masculine (Even though it meant that way in the past and it could include imprisonment).

Today: Unless one is a Scottish man blowing on some bagpipes, it is generally considered an effeminate thing for a man to wear a woman like skirt.

1 Corinthians 6:9 says, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,”​

Granted, even Bible clothing was like that of a long dress. For to girt up the loins of truth in Ephesians 6 (in regards to the armor of God) was when a man would wrap up his cloak around his legs in order to fight in battle.

full


But, if an American were to see this kind of garment today, we would not think they are dressing like a woman. They still look masculine. But if they were to wear clothes in such a way that women wear today that is clearly identified with what women wear today, then that is wrong. Our culture has a lot to do with it. But the overall rule of thumb is common sense. Do they look like the opposite sex by their clothing? Are they wearing actual clothing that comes from the opposite sex that is clearly for the opposite sex only? I am not talking about T-shirts here (Which one cannot tell the difference between a woman sized T-shirt, and a man's sized T-shirt). It's obviously not wrong for a woman to wear a man's sized T-shirt. But if they were to wear men's jeans, and put on a big belt buckle, and tuck in a plaid shirt and wear really large men's boots as a part of their normal every day appearance, then obviously there is a problem. I think most people know when a person is dressing more like a woman vs. a man.

Granted, while we are not under the entire package deal of the Old Covenant Law of Moses given to Israel (For we do not sacrifice animals, circumcise, etc), and while our culture of dress may have been different than the Israelite, Deuteronomy 22:5 is still a moral law and can be applied for us today in our culture. At the heart, this verse is condemning one trying to look like the opposite sex by one's clothing within their culture. So if your Pastor is wearing a lot of pink sweaters, his nails are colored, and you see him in a woman's skirt,.... run for the hills; For he is in error.
 
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Mr. M

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Today: We know it is generally considered wrong if a man dresses up in women clothing trying to look like a woman, and if it is wrong for a woman to dress using men's clothing that does not really fit them in attempt to look more like a man. The heart of this rule I believe is... does a person appear to look like the opposite sex by the type of clothing that they are wearing today? Are they wearing more men's clothing than women's clothing? This is at the heart of the issue here.

Yes, I do believe we have to take culture into consideration here. At one point in time, In our culture, it is not considered unacceptable in English speaking countries for women to wear pants. This has appeared to have changed in World War II.

Check out this article here:
A brief history of women’s fight to wear pants

Today: A person does not regard a woman wearing pants as dressing like a man or with them attempting to be more masculine (Even though it meant that way in the past and it could include imprisonment).

Today: Unless one is a Scottish man blowing on some bagpipes, it is generally considered an effeminate thing for a man to wear a woman like skirt.

1 Corinthians 6:9 says, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,”​

Granted, even Bible clothing was like that of a long dress. For to girt up the loins of truth in Ephesians 6 (in regards to the armor of God) was when a man would wrap up his cloak around his legs in order to fight in battle.

full


But, if an American were to see this kind of garment today, we would not think they are dressing like a woman. They still look masculine. But if they were to wear clothes in such a way that women wear today that is clearly identified with what women wear today, then that is wrong. Our culture has a lot to do with it. But the overall rule of thumb is common sense. Do they look like the opposite sex by their clothing? Are they wearing actual clothing that comes from the opposite sex that is clearly for the opposite sex only? I am not talking about T-shirts here (Which one cannot tell the difference between a woman sized T-shirt, and a man's sized T-shirt). It's obviously not wrong for a woman to wear a man's sized T-shirt. But if they were to wear men's jeans, and put on a big belt buckle, and tuck in a plaid shirt and wear really large men's boots as a part of their normal every day appearance, then obviously there is a problem. I think most people know when a person is dressing more like a woman vs. a man. Granted, while we are not under the entire package deal of the Old Covenant Law of Moses given to Israel (For we do not sacrifice animals, circumcise, etc): While our culture of dress may have been different than the Israelite, Deuteronomy 22:5 is a moral law and can be applied for us today in our culture. At the heart, it is one trying to look like the opposite sex by one's clothing within their culture.
This is a lot of very interesting information. Thank you for taking the time to post this. A few contributors to this thread have made the point which I also agree, is that the Lord judges the thoughts and intents of the heart. I am sure you know this one:
Hebrews 4:12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and
a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
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This is a lot of very interesting information. Thank you for taking the time to post this. A few contributors to this thread have made the point which I also agree, is that the Lord judges the thoughts and intents of the heart. I am sure you know this one:
Hebrews 4:12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and
a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Again, I would say that if I always see them dressing in a way that is to look like the opposite sex and they never dress according to their sex, then there is a problem.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says that the effeminate shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. So if a man is effeminate by his clothing, he is wearing women's dresses, and he is wearing women's panties, etc. all the time as a part of his every day life, he will not inherit the kingdom of God.

9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10).​

I believe the door swings both ways for this verse. If a man cannot be effeminate by his appearance (Which involves clothing as an element of that), then a woman cannot wear men's clothing as a way of life and come across looking masculine. I mean, does this person come off looking like the opposite sex by their clothing? Do others get confused on what type of sex they are by their clothing? Sure, there are exceptions sometimes. Survival situations (in being stranded out in the snowy mountains) may not apply, but when it comes to one having a choice as their normal everyday appearance and they seek to look more like the opposite sex by their clothing, this is wrong.

We have to remember that God's thoughts are not our thoughts. We have to remember that the heart is deceitful above all things. Trust nothing but the Word of God. If I (being a man) knew that I could be condemned by God for wearing a women's dress, then I am going to go to the opposite extreme of that because I want to please God by obeying His commands. I would not want to straddle the line and play games with such a command. Thus, you would never find me wearing a Scottish outfit blowing on some bagpipes (Even though most people consider that to b acceptable because of Scottish culture). I say this because I do not want to be lukewarm for my Lord, but I want to be on fire for my Lord (doing what is clearly good and right in His sight - without doubting).
 
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Brightmoon

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I’m not and never have been a biblical inerrantist . A harmless activity that is “detestable to God” seems like cultural based nonsense to me. I treat it a such . It’s was ok for them and silly for me to continue. Sorta like me wearing a Victorian bustle
 
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Dansiph

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Today: We know it is generally considered wrong if a man dresses up in women clothing trying to look like a woman, and if it is wrong for a woman to dress using men's clothing that does not really fit them in attempt to look more like a man. The heart of this rule I believe is... does a person appear to look like the opposite sex by the type of clothing that they are wearing today? Are they wearing more men's clothing than women's clothing? This is at the heart of the issue here.

Yes, I do believe we have to take culture into consideration here. At one point in time, In our culture, it was considered unacceptable in English speaking countries for women to wear pants. This has appeared to have changed in World War II.

Check out this article here:
A brief history of women’s fight to wear pants

Today: A person does not regard a woman wearing pants as dressing like a man or with them attempting to be more masculine (Even though it meant that way in the past and it could include imprisonment).

Today: Unless one is a Scottish man blowing on some bagpipes, it is generally considered an effeminate thing for a man to wear a woman like skirt.

1 Corinthians 6:9 says, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,”​

Granted, even Bible clothing was like that of a long dress. For to girt up the loins of truth in Ephesians 6 (in regards to the armor of God) was when a man would wrap up his cloak around his legs in order to fight in battle.

full


But, if an American were to see this kind of garment today, we would not think they are dressing like a woman. They still look masculine. But if they were to wear clothes in such a way that women wear today that is clearly identified with what women wear today, then that is wrong. Our culture has a lot to do with it. But the overall rule of thumb is common sense. Do they look like the opposite sex by their clothing? Are they wearing actual clothing that comes from the opposite sex that is clearly for the opposite sex only? I am not talking about T-shirts here (Which one cannot tell the difference between a woman sized T-shirt, and a man's sized T-shirt). It's obviously not wrong for a woman to wear a man's sized T-shirt. But if they were to wear men's jeans, and put on a big belt buckle, and tuck in a plaid shirt and wear really large men's boots as a part of their normal every day appearance, then obviously there is a problem. I think most people know when a person is dressing more like a woman vs. a man.

Granted, while we are not under the entire package deal of the Old Covenant Law of Moses given to Israel (For we do not sacrifice animals, circumcise, etc), and while our culture of dress may have been different than the Israelite, Deuteronomy 22:5 is still a moral law and can be applied for us today in our culture. At the heart, this verse is condemning one trying to look like the opposite sex by one's clothing within their culture. So if your Pastor is wearing a lot of pink sweaters, his nails are colored, and you see him in a woman's skirt,.... run for the hills; For he is in error.
A lot of Christians still think it's wrong for women to wear pants though. This doesn't mean being rude and demanding every woman wears a skirt or dress. For example even though my mum is a Christian she still wears pants. I'm just defending my position because as soon as you say what you believe on some matters people can think you just berate people about it.

Also I'm not saying you're wrong but where is the evidence that gird up the loins comes from a very long tunic? Didn't Jesus speak against long robes for example?

I like Art of Manliness but I feel it's necessary to add that the website is made by a Mormon.
 
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I’m not and never have been a biblical inerrantist . A harmless activity that is “detestable to God” seems like cultural based nonsense to me. I treat it a such . It’s was ok for them and silly for me to continue. Sorta like me wearing a Victorian bustle

Jesus says we must also be born again of water. I believe this is referring to being born again spiritually by the Scriptures. It is spiritual thing to know that the Word of God is holy and without error. If one is not born of water (by the revelation of God) (knowing that by the revelation of God - Scripture is holy and perfect), they are not born again of water so as to see the Kingdom of God. We need to be able to see the Kingdom when we read Scripture.

I mean stop and think for a moment. If the Bible has errors in it, who or what determines is an error or truth in God's Word? You? Your neighbor? The Bible says that the heart is deceitful above all things. I cannot always trust and rely on my own way of thinking. But I can trust the Bible because it is true.
 
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I can trust the Bible for spiritual truths . That’s simply not a truth it’s a old custom that we put too much stock in . Billy porter was shocking in that tuxedo dress only because we aren’t used to seeing something like that . I remember the same reaction when miniskirts first became popular for women in the 60s . That’s why I think this bible thumping over an outdated custom is a little silly . No one now even looks at a women in a mini and thinks “oh horrors ! legs! “
 
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A lot of Christians still think it's wrong for women to wear pants though. This doesn't mean being rude and demanding every woman wears a skirt or dress.

I would say that at one time in history, it would have been wrong for a woman to wear pants because it could mean imprisonment if they did. We are to obey the laws of the land (if they do not conflict with God's laws). But yes, today, most people do not regard a woman as being like a man because they are wearing pants. There are many pants by women that are very effeminate looking, too. In fact, women's pants are designed to fit their hips, etc. (Which is not the case if they were to put on men's pants). Women have bigger hips generally speaking. It also would clearly be wrong for men to wear women's panties, and a bra, etc. They should never do that. No culture should change something like that. These are undergarments that are clearly made for women and not men.

Also I'm not saying you're wrong but where is the evidence that gird up the loins comes from a very long tunic? Didn't Jesus speak against long robes for example?

The whole point of girting up one's loins is so as not to trip on one's longer tunic. If the cloak or tunic did not drop below the knee, then issues of tripping oneself in battle be nonexistent.

I believe the long flowing robes would be this....

full


I have seen some that were longer, whereby a long piece of cloth flows across the ground like a long narrow piece of carpet behind them (Which can be inverted to go in front of them like a walk way to them).

You said:
I like Art of Manliness but I feel it's necessary to add that the website is made by a Mormon.

I did not know that. But even a blind squirrel can find a nut. They can know certain truths, but they obviously do not worship the same Jesus Christ that we do.
 
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. Any man who WANTS to wear a bra is welcome to do so. They’re so uncomfortable and you can’t move your arms freely!

No thanks. I think some womens clothing was designed by the Marquis de Sade!
 
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I would say that at one time in history, it would have been wrong for a woman to wear pants because it could mean imprisonment if they did. We are to obey the laws of the land (if they do not conflict with God's laws). But yes, today, most people do not regard a woman as being like a man because they are wearing pants. There are many pants by women that are very effeminate looking, too. In fact, women's pants are designed to fit their hips, etc. (Which is not the case if they were to put on men's pants). Women have bigger hips generally speaking. It also would clearly be wrong for men to wear women's panties, and a bra, etc. They should never do that. No culture should change something like that. These are undergarments that are clearly made for women and not men.



The whole point of girting up one's loins is so as not to trip on one's longer tunic. If the cloak or tunic did not drop below the knee, then issues of tripping oneself in battle be nonexistent.

I believe the long flowing robes would be this....

full


I have seen some that were longer, whereby a long piece of cloth flows across the ground like a long narrow piece of carpet behind them (Which can be inverted to go in front of them like a walk way to them).



I did not know that. But even a blind squirrel can find a nut. They can know certain truths, but they obviously do not worship the same Jesus Christ that we do.
I'm undecided on the long tunics/robe but we'll never be able to confirm anyway.

I agree on the Art of Manliness website, anyone can provide good advice and information. I still like a lot of the stuff on there.
 
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I'm undecided on the long tunics/robe but we'll never be able to confirm anyway.

I agree on the Art of Manliness website, anyone can provide good advice and information. I still like a lot of the stuff on there.

If I knew it came from a Mormon, I probably would not have posted the pic. I have no interest of seeing the site because you said he is Mormon.

As for the length: Again, it would be not serve much purpose in girding up one’s loins if it was knee length level. The purpose to gird up loins was to not trip on your own tunic. A shorter tunic would not cause this problem.
 
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If I knew it came from a Mormon, I probably would not have posted the pic. I have no interest of seeing the site because you said he is Mormon.

As for the length: Again, it would be not serve much purpose in girding up one’s loins if it was knee length level. The purpose to gird up loins was to not trip on your own tunic. A shorter tunic would not cause this problem.
The website rarely if at all mentions Mormonism in fact I think I only know that because of an interview Brett McKay did on another site. He needs Jesus, just like us.

I just don't see why in a time when most jobs were physical they would wear a long tunic which needed to be girded up. If you see one of my previous posts also the book of Daniel mentions "hosen" which means trousers essentially.
 
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No thanks. I think some womens clothing was designed by the Marquis de Sade!
Remember those rubber girdles that women used to wear back in the 50s . My mother spent years trying to tell me I needed one. They were skintight rubber (like S&Mclothes) and just the thought of wearing one in a NYC humid summer was enough for me to swear I’d never put one on. I tried my mother’s on once when I was a skinny teenybopper. It was so tight it was dislocating my hips . I have no idea how she or any other woman wore that thing.
 
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