'Temporary' Church Apostasy?

rocknanchor · Jul 3, 2020

The C-19 lockdown required the assumed ‘temporary’ abolishing of Church attendance throughout the land. Seeing what the Holy Spirit penned, was this willingly yet unknowingly, a ‘temporary’ apostasy from Christianity?

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

(Hebrews 10:25)

Pavel Mosko · Jul 3, 2020

rocknanchor said:
The C-19 lockdown required the assumed ‘temporary’ abolishing of Church attendance throughout the land. Seeing what the Holy Spirit penned, was this willingly yet unknowingly, a ‘temporary’ apostasy from Christianity?

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

(Hebrews 10:25)

Is that sort of thing still in affect where you live? I know a number of places have resumed socially distanced church services, but I don't know about AOG and Pentecostal denominations.

In some ways, the teleconference church service thing though does qualify as a assembling together, even though certain things like Holy Communion, the laying of of hands etc. doesn't work very well, or at all etc. but there is always the words of the Centurion to Jesus where he said "it wasn't necessary" for Jesus to come to his home but speak the word/command from his current location. So in the short term, I believe God makes up for deficits like that.

rocknanchor · Jul 3, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
Is that sort of thing still in affect where you live?

No, only a slight reminder of this over-reach as in percentages are allowed. But that closure surely was. "Gathering" was quite a specific wording did the Holy Spirit use, I would not recommend subtracting from that.

Pavel Mosko said:
I believe God makes up for deficits like that.

I suspect you are careful just how far reaching God would make up for what has happened, if so, you are right.

Evry'soul · Jul 3, 2020

14For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

18And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

Attendance is certainly recommended and association with others is always encouraging, but apostasy? Hardly. Our God does not reside only in houses of worship, but instead belongs to the body of believers no matter where the are. Have faith that God is always with you.

rocknanchor · Jul 3, 2020

Reminds me of another small insignificant item; that little bitty mark in the hand or forehead, do we really think God would send us away for such a small infraction? Well - yes. The Holy Spirit in combination of the word He uses can deliver quite a tone that calls us out at times.

A_Thinker · Jul 3, 2020

rocknanchor said:
The C-19 lockdown required the assumed ‘temporary’ abolishing of Church attendance throughout the land. Seeing what the Holy Spirit penned, was this willingly yet unknowingly, a ‘temporary’ apostasy from Christianity?

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

(Hebrews 10:25)

Christianity is much more than the attendance at a weekly service.

It's daily prayer and Bible study, ... providing needed service to our neighbors, ... visiting the sick, down-trodden, mourning, and imprisoned, giving to the impoverished, spreading the gospel message, etc.

Weekly service is, mostly, a time to have fellowship with the brethren ... and sistren, which we've continued to do ... through teleconferences, Zoom sessions, etc.

topher694 · Jul 3, 2020

rocknanchor said:
The C-19 lockdown required the assumed ‘temporary’ abolishing of Church attendance throughout the land. Seeing what the Holy Spirit penned, was this willingly yet unknowingly, a ‘temporary’ apostasy from Christianity?

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

(Hebrews 10:25)

No

seeking.IAM · Jul 3, 2020

No. Fortunately, there are other ways to be "gathered" beyond being tightly packed in a a confined space exhaling all over each other. For one, God gave man the wisdom to invent the internet well in time for a pandemic. But more importantly, His Church cannot be confined within 4 walls under a steeple. We are the Church.

public hermit · Jul 3, 2020

I don't think so. 1) Many still gathered via various electronic mediums. 2) In certain situations the law of love overrides other considerations. Out of love for one another we set aside physical gathering for the common good and well-being. It would be a different thing if large swaths of Christians just decided, willy-nilly, to take the "Lone Ranger" approach for no overriding reason.

rocknanchor · Jul 3, 2020

Throwback! Okay then, maybe his words have become prophetic from a leading, 'For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face

CaspianSails · Jul 4, 2020

In many services people are not gathered they are merely present. They do not fellowship, they do not know each other and don't take the time to become a church. This is not only true in larger congregations it has become true in smaller ones as well. To see if this is true in your congregation ask yourself how many people in my church have I spent time with out side of a service. Do I know them? Do I know their kids, their strengths, their weaknesses, their beliefs. Are the my friends? If not then you are not gathered in the sense of a community of believers you are merely present for a service together but apart.

It is not an apostasy in any event. Not gathering in this sense does not, at least in my opinion, equal apostasy. Definition: Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs. One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate.

The direction to not forsake gathering is more for unity, for strength and for building relationships where one helps others, build others up, encourages, hold accountable and the like.

rocknanchor · Jul 4, 2020

CaspianSails said:
In many services people are not gathered they are merely present. They do not fellowship, they do not know each other and don't take the time to become a church. This is not only true in larger congregations it has become true in smaller ones as well. To see if this is true in your congregation ask yourself how many people in my church have I spent time with out side of a service. Do I know them? Do I know their kids, their strengths, their weaknesses, their beliefs. Are the my friends? If not then you are not gathered in the sense of a community of believers you are merely present for a service together but apart.

It is not an apostasy in any event. Not gathering in this sense does not, at least in my opinion, equal apostasy. Definition: Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs. One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate.

The direction to not forsake gathering is more for unity, for strength and for building relationships where one helps others, build others up, encourages, hold accountable and the like.

Hello ‘CS’, these and many others have supplied several good and logical points. Yours did jog a reflection for me on how well it goes within my congregation, so at least some of the many would be able to ‘bear one another’s burdens’ based on a working knowledge.

To be sure, there will always be limitations of the extensiveness of what we know, God has way above our own as one comment raised the notion – would make up the difference. But we know how the mega-Church works. A once-a-week worshipper will seldom proceed past the greeter’s lines. But that quickly diminishes when they incorporate SS and the several extracurriculars it takes to maintain the many needs. Large or small there will be limits.

Our small flock is all too close for there not to be a large gasp when a dear saint passes from us. They have a healthy, ready mind and know their aged numbers are the majority, 75-yr old average. But, they most all take part. But if hypothetically speaking, they didn’t take an active part and if they all came from some highly traumatic background where they all loved God but were characteristically flawed, I don’t think God would hold that against them, they are just then making their way back, yet all the while fulfilling the Writer’s precept – to gather.

Hazelelponi · Jul 4, 2020

rocknanchor said:
The C-19 lockdown required the assumed ‘temporary’ abolishing of Church attendance throughout the land. Seeing what the Holy Spirit penned, was this willingly yet unknowingly, a ‘temporary’ apostasy from Christianity?

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

(Hebrews 10:25)

First we must define apostasy, which is a willful falling away from, or rebellion against, Christianity.

The churches who refrained from in person worship services across the board during the outbreak are likely guilty of having too little faith - not apostasy...

Revelation 3:1-3 is most appropriate here.

rocknanchor · Jul 4, 2020

Thanks! Okay, I get that. Then lets ramp that ‘willfulness’ a bit.

Now what if godless entities rose up in stout opposition demanding permanent termination of all Church meeting houses until further notice? Do you see what I’m getting at here? At what point does it become apparent for us to act,

“Did we not strictly command you not to teach [person-to-person] in this name? And look, you have filled [this nation] with your doctrine, and intend to [continue to gather], , But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men.

, , and so much the more, ,

(Acts 5:28,29 Hebrews 10:25)

Hazelelponi · Jul 5, 2020

rocknanchor said:
Thanks! Okay, I get that. Then lets ramp that ‘willfulness’ a bit.

Now what if godless entities rose up in stout opposition demanding permanent termination of all Church meeting houses until further notice? Do you see what I’m getting at here? At what point does it become apparent for us to act,

“Did we not strictly command you not to teach [person-to-person] in this name? And look, you have filled [this nation] with your doctrine, and intend to [continue to gather], , But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men.

, , and so much the more, ,

(Acts 5:28,29 Hebrews 10:25)

THAT was what made this so insidious.

Any Christian will say they will worship during times of persecution and history shows that persecution creates church growth just about anywhere the church is persecuted.

But what happened here was that Christians were told they were murderers if they worshipped God with their brethren - and who wants to kill their brethren?

Emotions were heightened; fears and worries were played on and people stopped going to church with no need of persecution, because the Christians sense of love for their brethren was used as a weapon against them and in that moment it was their trust in God that was lacking.

The devil learned well from the past. There is something I've said since I've been a Christian concerning Christianity; "What was born in persecution will die in apathy."

It is that apathy we need to fight the most, because it is our greatest enemy, and the world knows it.

rocknanchor · Jul 5, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
THAT was what made this so insidious.

Any Christian will say they will worship during times of persecution and history shows that persecution creates church growth just about anywhere the church is persecuted.

But what happened here was that Christians were told they were murderers if they worshipped God with their brethren - and who wants to kill their brethren?

Emotions were heightened; fears and worries were played on and people stopped going to church with no need of persecution, because the Christians sense of love for their brethren was used as a weapon against them and in that moment it was their trust in God that was lacking.

The devil learned well from the past. There is something I've said since I've been a Christian concerning Christianity; "What was born in persecution will die in apathy."

It is that apathy we need to fight the most, because it is our greatest enemy, and the world knows it.

Give that sister an AMEN someone. Fabulous logic! Can no one sense the Devil’s scowl but me?

, , also, that weaponizing our mutual care for each other so often is not backed up by noting fears that come (men’s hearts failing them for fear - Jesus). Yes, the way is narrow, ‘light’, but 'narrow'.

rocknanchor · Jul 6, 2020

Two fears are shown within the bulk of this thread (God & Illness), but my express purpose here was for the reader to choose which is greater. Unfortunately, due to the silence, the outcome now presents one distinct divide! Surprise? No. Absence of evil? God knows any temptations directed at Him. Otherwise and first off, you’ll know this author of this thread ‘by their fruits’. The rest? Well, what else, I don’t believe the thread was appreciated and likely looked upon as an unthankful eyesore.

In truth, isn’t that truly just as surprising to those uncommitted reading this as it was for the Lord the day only one of the ten returned to give thanks?

It was a small leper colony such as this that Jesus encountered on his way through the Samaritan wilderness: Ten lepers, dressed in tattered rags, their bodies covered with lesions, crying at the top of their lungs. For some reason, when Jesus approached they did not cry out, “Unclean!”, as they were supposed to; instead, they cried, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”

How did they know who Jesus was? Why did they not warn him of the danger of their presence? Luke doesn’t say. He only says that, in answer to their plea, Jesus responded with mercy. After all, this is the nature of Jesus: To love the unlovable, to touch the untouchable, to seek out the least, the last and the lost.

He told the lepers, “Go and show yourselves to the priests.” This is significant in two ways: One, he treated the lepers the same way he treated everyone else. In other words, he didn’t criticize them or question whether or not they were worthy of his time and attention. This is one of the hallmarks of his kingdom. Peter said it best:

“Truly I perceive that God doesn’t show favoritism;
but in every nation he who fears him
and works righteousness is acceptable to him.”

(Acts 10:34)

‘Luke doesn’t say’, or the Spirit didn’t say? The point in much of this is, does our choice reflect confidence that God will uphold His widespread approval of trusting Him? Or is it the beginning sign of turning faith upon what He gave us into a “myth”?

This much I can say, THAT is the furthest thing from mountain-moving faith I presently could think of!

Luke 17:11-19 Don't Forget to Say Thank You! (McLarty)

rocknanchor · Jul 7, 2020

rocknanchor said:
I don’t believe the thread was appreciated and likely looked upon as an unthankful eyesore.

If there are virtuous ideals, hopefully, they are not chained in fear? Surely, your involved in some other exploit where you are', ,filled with gladness, the load upon their spirits, the pressures upon their minds were removed, and they had an inward pleasure in their souls, and rest, refreshment, and comfort, through the liberal communications' in plenty were secured (Gill).

CaspianSails · Jul 10, 2020

rocknanchor said:
Hello ‘CS’, these and many others have supplied several good and logical points. Yours did jog a reflection for me on how well it goes within my congregation, so at least some of the many would be able to ‘bear one another’s burdens’ based on a working knowledge.

To be sure, there will always be limitations of the extensiveness of what we know, God has way above our own as one comment raised the notion – would make up the difference. But we know how the mega-Church works. A once-a-week worshipper will seldom proceed past the greeter’s lines. But that quickly diminishes when they incorporate SS and the several extracurriculars it takes to maintain the many needs. Large or small there will be limits.

Our small flock is all too close for there not to be a large gasp when a dear saint passes from us. They have a healthy, ready mind and know their aged numbers are the majority, 75-yr old average. But, they most all take part. But if hypothetically speaking, they didn’t take an active part and if they all came from some highly traumatic background where they all loved God but were characteristically flawed, I don’t think God would hold that against them, they are just then making their way back, yet all the while fulfilling the Writer’s precept – to gather.

It is refreshing to hear that at least within the flock you are responsible for there is what we used to call but no longer hear much about, brotherhood. The social aspect of the Christian life where we do bear one anothers' burdens, lift one another in prayer. Work together to alleviate the needs of those who worship and gather together as a family. This is not as common as it once was. We all have flaws, no doubt. When Christ spoke to John regarding the churches there were flaws evident and they were not ignored or looked over. Together as a community of Christ in our local churches we can strengthen one another and overcome our flaws. A church with an average age of 75 is not one to be taken lightly in my view. If the people are fastidious prayer warriors they can accomplish much and bring strength and response from God to others. God bless.

'Temporary' Church Apostasy?

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