Old Testament Kingdom Prophecies. Literally or spiritually understood?

Dave L

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`Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth - those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.` (John 5: 28 & 29)

1. So where are those in the Body of Christ? Not in the grave but in heaven.

`But you have come to Mount Zion....to the General Assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven,...` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

2. Are the believers in the Body of Christ saved by good works? No, it is by the precious blood of Jesus.

Thus we see that Jesus was speaking about `those in the graves` and NOT about the Body of Christ who are not in the graves and who are not saved by good works.
God destroys our bodies in the grave so he can reunite us with new spiritual bodies as Christ has in the resurrection. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom (no millennium) Our spirit goes immediately to heaven at death.
 
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Marilyn C

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God destroys our bodies in the grave so he can reunite us with new spiritual bodies as Christ has in the resurrection. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom (no millennium) Our spirit goes immediately to heaven at death.

The `kingdom/rule` of God over all, (rebellion done away with) is in the New Heavens and New Earth.

`Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.` (1 Cor. 15: 28)

And that is after the millennium.
 
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Dave L

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The `kingdom/rule` of God over all, (rebellion done away with) is in the New Heavens and New Earth.

`Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.` (1 Cor. 15: 28)

And that is after the millennium.
There is no millennium. It's a Pharisee doctrine that keeps people from seeing the kingdom of God/heaven that Jesus preached and proved by performing miracles.
“But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” Luke 11:20 (NCPB)

If you are born again, you can see it. If not, you remain with the Pharisees.
 
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Marilyn C

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There is no millennium. It's a Pharisee doctrine that keeps people from seeing the kingdom of God/heaven that Jesus preached and proved by performing miracles.
“But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” Luke 11:20 (NCPB)

If you are born again, you can see it. If not, you remain with the Pharisees.

Jesus was talking to people BEFORE the cross & giving of the Holy Spirit. The `kingdom/rule of God` would come upon those people who believed in Jesus.

Whereas for us we are AFTER the cross and the giving of the Holy Spirit. Thus we have Christ`s rule within us by the Holy Spirit. This was NOT possible prior to the Lord`s ascension.
 
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Douggg

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Our spirit goes immediately to heaven at death.
This part I agree with. I would say our soul goes immediately to heaven - but essentially the same thing.

Care to make a stand, and participate in my thread...
Where do you fit ?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Jesus was talking to people BEFORE the cross & giving of the Holy Spirit. The `kingdom/rule of God` would come upon those people who believed in Jesus.

Whereas for us we are AFTER the cross and the giving of the Holy Spirit. Thus we have Christ`s rule within us by the Holy Spirit. This was NOT possible prior to the Lord`s ascension.

I posted this previously.

There is plenty of OT proof. Dispensationalists argue that the old covenant saints could only experience the Spirit of God “upon” them, not “in” them. But Scripture repeatedly contradicts this contention. In the book of Genesis, we see Pharaoh recognize the Spirit of God residing within Joseph. He acknowledged in Genesis 41:37: “Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?”

Isaiah 63:11 speaks of Moses, “Where is he [God] that put his Holy Spirit within him [Moses]?” In Exodus 28:3, we see God instructing Moses: “thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom.” The saints are here described as those who possess the Spirit of God. In Exodus 31:3, the LORD informs Moses regarding Bezaleel, “I have filled him with the spirit of God.” This is repeated in Exodus 31:31. In Exodus 35:21, a company of the children of Israel are set apart for service “every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing.” Here the internal function of the Holy Spirit is seen to be actively at work.

These are explicit statements that challenge the Dispensationalist position. These texts do not merely describe a proximate work of the Holy Spirit but an active internal presence of the Spirit within God’s servants.

Of all that complained in the wilderness, only 2 Israelis over the age of 20 made it into the Promised Land – Joshua and Caleb. Numbers 27:18 tells us, “And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him.” Deuteronomy 34:9 correlates, “Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom.” Numbers 14:24 records: “my servant Caleb … had another spirit with him.”

It was the inward dwelling presence of the Spirit of God under the old covenant that set godly men apart from the religious professors around them. It was the Spirit who enlightened men and it was He who enabled men. Without Him, man was ignorant of God, His truth and His will. Without Him, man was unable to accomplish the purpose of God.

In Job 32:8 we see the reason why the Old Testament saints needed the Holy Spirit. It is the exact same reason why the New Testament saint need Him: “there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.” Job 33:4 adds: “The spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” We need to see that it the Spirit of God that gives life – both natural and spiritual. Without Him we are deceived, lost and forsaken. It was the Spirit of God that allowed the Old Testament saints to understand and undertake the high and holy things of God.

The Old Testament emphasizes the need of the Spirit of God, just as the New Testament. The reason being: man’s hopeless predicament outside of the Spirit was as pitiful in that era as ours. Did the angel of the Lord not pronounce those famous words in Zechariah 4:6: “Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts”? Pleasing God in any way under the old covenant did not come through ethnic heritage, natural ability, or human striving. It totally came through the enabling power of the Spirit. The Holy Ghost was the necessary help that all men needed to make him alive unto God and pleasing unto Him. That is why Psalm 104:30 tells us: “When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth.”

David cried unto God in Psalm 51:10-12, “Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.” David, like us, was dependent upon the Spirit to strengthen and help in in godly matters.

Psalm 143:10 asks God: “Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground.”

2 Corinthians 4:13 records: “We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak.” This is a direct quote from David in Psalm 116:102. 2 Corinthians 4:13 suggests that the very same “spirit of faith” that operated in David in the Old Testament functions in us now. This is further compelling evidence that the Old Testament were as dependent upon the internal workings of the Spirit as we are.

Ezekiel 2:2 personally testified, “the spirit entered into me.” See also Ezekiel 3:24. Micah 3:8 testified, “I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.” The Spirit of God gave the prophet of God the necessary strength in order to operate as a believer and a seer. Daniel 6:3 says of God’s Old Testament servant Daniel, “this Daniel was preferred above the presidents and princes, because an excellent spirit was in him” (see also 4:8, 9,18, 5:11, 14).

Nehemiah testified of God’s help for Israel in bygone days in Nehemiah 9:20: “You gave your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst.” Nehemiah 9:30 also talks about, “thy spirit in thy prophets.” 1 Peter 1:7-12 repeats this great truth, speaking about the common salvation shared by the New and Old Testament saints: “Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the spirit of Christ which was in [Gr. en] them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”

The Greek word en here is overwhelmingly interpreted “in” throughout the New Testament. In fact, there are 1,902 instances of such. The Old Testament saints plainly possessed the same Spirit of Christ as the New Testament believers, although, they obviously looked forward, by faith to the promised Redeemer, whereas the New Testament Church now looks back. The Old and New Testament saints, Jew and Gentile alike, have now been graciously merged together into the one harmonious spiritual Israel of God – the Church. This body recognizes no dispensational or ethnic separation at all.

Jesus uses the same Greek word that Peter does to describe the Spirit within believers in the New Testament era. John 14:17 is an example of that. Jesus said: “the Spirit of truth … dwelleth with you, and shall be in [Gr. en] you.” Another similar passage is be found in Romans 8:9: “ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in [Gr. en] you.” The same Spirit that dwelt “in” (en) the Old Testament saints dwells in us today.

God’s elect that existed within Israel when Jesus came were few. But Scripture shows that they indwelt by the Spirit. An angel prophesied unto Zacharias in Luke 1:13-17 that his son-to-be John “shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.” Luke 1:41 records of John’s mother, “Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.” Luke 1:67 records of John’s father, “Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost.” This was all within the old covenant. This was before the cross. This preceded Pentecost.

One cannot avoid the conclusion presented by Paul that there is a solid unitary connection between God’s people in both testaments. The Bible is manifestly one single combined book telling one consistent story to one interconnected people about one central character: Jesus Christ, who came to save one collective elect people. The Old Testament prepared the way for Christ and pointed the ancient believers in the direction of His impending ministry. The New Testament on the other hand shows the arrival, realization and revelation of the Messiah. Both were unified with the quickening power of the Spirit of God.

Hebrews 11:23-26 tells us, “By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.”

Moses refused to run with the crowd. He renounced earthly treasures and worldly privilege of eternal riches and heavenly privilege. He refused to take the easy road. He is shown to be identified with Christ, even back deep in the old covenant period. His salvation came alone through the finished work of Christ on the cross. He simply saw it afar off, but believed by faith.

Old Testament believers are depicted as having faith in the coming Messiah. By faith they are shown to have experienced Christ. It was only in Him that they could have experienced eternal life. There was no other Savior and no other salvation. The Bible is one single book telling one single story about one central character: Jesus Christ. The Old Testament prepares the way for Christ and points the ancient believers in the direction of Christ. The New Testament on the other hand is the realization, arrival and revelation of the Messiah.

The Old Testament saints were saved in the exact same way as we were – by grace, through faith. The Old Testament saints looked forward to the cross by faith; we New Testament saints look back by faith. Sam A. Smith succinctly says, “There is only one means of eternal salvation in history: salvation by grace, through faith in Christ” (Regeneration and Indwelling in the Old Testament).

Romans 4:3 tells us: “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” Galatians 3:6 reiterates: “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” James 2:23 agrees, saying, “Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.”

The same Holy Spirit that enlightens sinner today and brings them into a saving knowledge of truth, did the same in the Old Testament epoch. Without God’s supernatural intervention upon a stubborn sinful heart, man had no way of moving from death unto life. After all, by regeneration the soul is quickened from death into life (Ephesians 2:1-4). Men’s response to God’s voice and men’s response to the quickening power of Spirit determined whether their ears and eyes would be opened. Those who rejected the illuminating and regenerating work of the Spirit were lost.

Stephen made a very telling comment to the Jews after Pentecost supporting this standpoint, in Acts 7:51-52: “Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers.”

Stephen likens the resistance he saw in his day to the quickening power of the Spirit to that of unbelieving Israel back in Old Testament times. When the disciples spoke of “the fathers” they were referring to their Old Testament forefathers. When they spoke of “the prophets” they were talking about the Old Testament men of God that spoke the truth of God. This tells us that the same Spirit operating in the same way was never appreciated by hardened religious Israelis, irrespective of whether it was before or after the cross.
 
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Marilyn C

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I posted this previously.

There is plenty of OT proof. Dispensationalists argue that the old covenant saints could only experience the Spirit of God “upon” them, not “in” them. But Scripture repeatedly contradicts this contention.

Yes, but not in the same way as the Holy Spirit when He came AFTER Christ ascended. It was then that the Holy Spirit was given to ALL who believe, to make them like Christ, and to build them together as the Body of Christ.

And that is a whole new infilling and purpose.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Yes, but not in the same way as the Holy Spirit when He came AFTER Christ ascended. It was then that the Holy Spirit was given to ALL who believe, to make them like Christ, and to build them together as the Body of Christ.

And that is a whole new infilling and purpose.

Not so!

· How many different types of salvation are there in Scripture?
· How many different Saviors are there in Scripture?
· How many different peoples of God are there in Scripture?

Essentially, what we need to establish is: does God have two or more separate peoples that are saved in two distinct ways or does He have one unitary chosen people going back to the beginning of time that are saved by faith in Christ?

The answer to each of these questions is a very definite “one.”

The mistake many people make in regard to this subject is that they attribute to the natural what pertains exclusively to the spiritual. They totally misunderstand the heart of God and the global focus of His plan of redemption for mankind from the beginning. First, man has never in history been saved on the grounds of his race, some supposed innate qualities he possesses or any religious efforts; it has always been by grace through faith.

The sound Bible student will know that mere natural birth has never been sufficient to secure one’s salvation or favor with God. We see this both in the Old and the New Testament.
 
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Marilyn C

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Not so!

· How many different types of salvation are there in Scripture?
· How many different Saviors are there in Scripture?
· How many different peoples of God are there in Scripture?

Essentially, what we need to establish is: does God have two or more separate peoples that are saved in two distinct ways or does He have one unitary chosen people going back to the beginning of time that are saved by faith in Christ?

The answer to each of these questions is a very definite “one.”

The mistake many people make in regard to this subject is that they attribute to the natural what pertains exclusively to the spiritual. They totally misunderstand the heart of God and the global focus of His plan of redemption for mankind from the beginning. First, man has never in history been saved on the grounds of his race, some supposed innate qualities he possesses or any religious efforts; it has always been by grace through faith.

The sound Bible student will know that mere natural birth has never been sufficient to secure one’s salvation or favor with God. We see this both in the Old and the New Testament.

The difference is in the inheritances. Different inheritances for the nations, Israel and the Body of Christ. All in God`s great kingdom under the Lord but in different realms.
 
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5thKingdom

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Old Testament Kingdom Prophecies. Literally or spiritually understood?

It appears the major split in the Church today is over who to believe. Jesus and Daniel, or the Pharisees.

Daniel said the Kingdom of God would appear during the times of the ancient Roman Empire. And Jesus confirmed this as true. He preached the Kingdom was at hand. It already had been suffering violence. And that he casting out demons was proof it arrived. But he threw everyone a huge curveball to everyone by saying this.

Everyone expected a literal physical kingdom similar to David’s that would rid the land of the Romans and do all the Old Testament prophets said it would do.

But here’s what happened instead. Jesus continued preaching the gospel of the Kingdom describing it as invisible. Also spiritual in makeup. A kingdom only the born again could see. Later he said his kingdom is not of this world and comes without observation. That the kingdom is within you.

In contrast, the Pharisees taught a literal physical kingdom based on a literal interpretation of Old Testament Kingdom Prophecies. And so, here’s where the split begins. Do we side with Jesus and Daniel, thinking it must have been a spiritual kingdom they were thinking about? Opting for a purely spiritual kingdom that must now be present? Or do we side with the Pharisees and say Jesus and Daniel were wrong because the physical kingdom of the prophets didn’t show when it was supposed to?

What it means. If Jesus and Daniel were right, all the Old Testament Kingdom Prophecies were symbols of the spiritual Kingdom, not to be taken literally. Similar to Revelation where the symbols depict spiritual realities. That is how Jesus and the Church interpreted them.

Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. And eventually, the disciples caught on. Peter preached the completed gospel at Pentecost. It includes Jesus’ death burial and resurrection. With his ascent to heaven where he presently rules from David’s Throne. Nearly all versions of the gospel miss this that Jesus is now seated on David’s throne in heavenly Jerusalem above.

Jesus is Ezekiel’s Temple. The Temple made without hands. And when you study it, only God can build it because of incomplete height measurements. You would need to add to God’s word in order to build it.

Jesus also said John the Baptist was Elijah. Meaning Elijah was a symbol for John.

He also taught in the Beatitudes that believers are Israel to whom the promises apply. This by recognizing the fruit they bear. Paul elaborates on this later defining Jesus as Abraham’s Seed to whom the promises apply.

The Pharisees rejected this since it didn’t match their millennial views of the 1000 year-long physical kingdom they expected. One that ultimately ends in a third temple and animal sacrifices for the whole world. Incidentally, Hebrews 6 calls this an unforgivable sin even though many Christians have it in mind to do just this if and when the occasion arises.

So if we have what it takes, we need to start reading our Bibles with spiritual eyes. Knowing the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Pharisees know how to read a cookbook. But they have a veil over their eyes and don’t know how to read a bible.



Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” Luke 16:16 (KJV 1900)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)

“I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9 (NASB95)

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12 (KJV 1900)

“That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.” 1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV 1900)

“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.” Acts 19:8 (KJV 1900)

“And when thy days [David] be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (KJV 1900)


Many OT prophecies had both a literal and (future)
spiritual meaning. Which was one of the problems
that cause the Jews to not recognize Christ as
their Messiah.

Some OT prophecies were only physical
Other OT prophecies were only (future) spiritual.

.
 
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Dave L

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Many OT prophecies had both a literal and (future)
spiritual meaning. Which was one of the problems
that cause the Jews to not recognize Christ as
their Messiah.

Some OT prophecies were only physical
Other OT prophecies were only (future) spiritual.

.
Have you any examples?
 
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Dave L

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This part I agree with. I would say our soul goes immediately to heaven - but essentially the same thing.

Care to make a stand, and participate in my thread...
Where do you fit ?
I fit by telling you that you do not understand who biblical Israel is. Jesus removed all physical unbelievers when he abolished circumcision making them biblical gentiles. Only the believers remained Israel, or any who accepted Jesus became Israel. Study circumcision and the role it played in making one a biblical Jew and build your charts from there.
 
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Dave L

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Jesus was talking to people BEFORE the cross & giving of the Holy Spirit. The `kingdom/rule of God` would come upon those people who believed in Jesus.

Whereas for us we are AFTER the cross and the giving of the Holy Spirit. Thus we have Christ`s rule within us by the Holy Spirit. This was NOT possible prior to the Lord`s ascension.
So why call for a Pharisee version of a millennium that Christ disproved many times?
 
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5thKingdom

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How is that a dual fulfillment? God doesn't change.


I never implied God changes... but His programs clearly do.
Do we offer animal sacrifices today? No.
Why? Because Jesus fulfilled that "shadow"

OT sacrifices were pointing to Jesus as the Lamb of God.
Do you NOT agree with that?

.
 
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jgr

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The difference is in the inheritances. Different inheritances for the nations, Israel and the Body of Christ. All in God`s great kingdom under the Lord but in different realms.

There are no "different inheritances" in Scripture.

There is but one Heir, i.e. Inheritor, and He is Christ. (Hebrews 1:1,2).

Those who are in Him, and they alone, are declared to be heirs and joint-heirs, i.e. inheritors, with Him. (Romans 8:16,17; Galatians 3:29; Galatians 4:7; Titus 3:7).

Nowhere in Scripture are nations declared to be heirs of God.

Israel is specifically and explicitly disinherited. (Matthew 21:38-45; Galatians 4:30).
 
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5thKingdom

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Old Testament Kingdom Prophecies. Literally or spiritually understood?

It appears the major split in the Church today is over who to believe. Jesus and Daniel, or the Pharisees.

Daniel said the Kingdom of God would appear during the times of the ancient Roman Empire. And Jesus confirmed this as true. He preached the Kingdom was at hand. It already had been suffering violence. And that he casting out demons was proof it arrived. But he threw everyone a huge curveball to everyone by saying this.

Everyone expected a literal physical kingdom similar to David’s that would rid the land of the Romans and do all the Old Testament prophets said it would do.

But here’s what happened instead. Jesus continued preaching the gospel of the Kingdom describing it as invisible. Also spiritual in makeup. A kingdom only the born again could see. Later he said his kingdom is not of this world and comes without observation. That the kingdom is within you.

In contrast, the Pharisees taught a literal physical kingdom based on a literal interpretation of Old Testament Kingdom Prophecies. And so, here’s where the split begins. Do we side with Jesus and Daniel, thinking it must have been a spiritual kingdom they were thinking about? Opting for a purely spiritual kingdom that must now be present? Or do we side with the Pharisees and say Jesus and Daniel were wrong because the physical kingdom of the prophets didn’t show when it was supposed to?

What it means. If Jesus and Daniel were right, all the Old Testament Kingdom Prophecies were symbols of the spiritual Kingdom, not to be taken literally. Similar to Revelation where the symbols depict spiritual realities. That is how Jesus and the Church interpreted them.

Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. And eventually, the disciples caught on. Peter preached the completed gospel at Pentecost. It includes Jesus’ death burial and resurrection. With his ascent to heaven where he presently rules from David’s Throne. Nearly all versions of the gospel miss this that Jesus is now seated on David’s throne in heavenly Jerusalem above.

Jesus is Ezekiel’s Temple. The Temple made without hands. And when you study it, only God can build it because of incomplete height measurements. You would need to add to God’s word in order to build it.

Jesus also said John the Baptist was Elijah. Meaning Elijah was a symbol for John.

He also taught in the Beatitudes that believers are Israel to whom the promises apply. This by recognizing the fruit they bear. Paul elaborates on this later defining Jesus as Abraham’s Seed to whom the promises apply.

The Pharisees rejected this since it didn’t match their millennial views of the 1000 year-long physical kingdom they expected. One that ultimately ends in a third temple and animal sacrifices for the whole world. Incidentally, Hebrews 6 calls this an unforgivable sin even though many Christians have it in mind to do just this if and when the occasion arises.

So if we have what it takes, we need to start reading our Bibles with spiritual eyes. Knowing the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Pharisees know how to read a cookbook. But they have a veil over their eyes and don’t know how to read a bible.



Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” Luke 16:16 (KJV 1900)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)

“I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9 (NASB95)

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12 (KJV 1900)

“That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.” 1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV 1900)

“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.” Acts 19:8 (KJV 1900)

“And when thy days [David] be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (KJV 1900)

First, I disagree with your representation of the "Kingdom of Heaven"
but that is probably better left for a different thread.

As to your question on whether OT prophecies should be literally
or spiritually understood... I think that depends on the prophecy,
don't you agree?

What specific OT prophecy would you offer for consideration?

.
 
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Dave L

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First, I disagree with your representation of the "Kingdom of Heaven"
but that is probably better left for a different thread.

As to your question on whether OT prophecies should be literally
or spiritually understood... I think that depends on the prophecy,
don't you agree?

What specific OT prophecy would you offer for consideration?

.
Here's how it works. The Kingdom of God and heaven are the same kingdom.

“the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17) = “the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 5:3) = “Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20)

“Among those born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, notwithstanding he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than him.” (Matt. 11:11) = “Among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.” (Luke 7:28)

“the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 13:11) = “the mysteries of the kingdom of God” (Mark 4:11 cp. Luke 8:10)

“the kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed” (Matt 13:31) = “the kingdom of God...is like a grain of mustard seed” (Mark 4:30-31 cp. Luke 13:18-19)

“The kingdom of Heaven is like leaven” (Matt. 13:33) = “the kingdom of God...is like leaven” (Luke 13:20)

“Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 18:3-4) = “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” (Mark 10:15)

“Allow little children, and do not forbid them to come to me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.” (Matt. 19:14) = “Allow the little children to come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14 cp. Luke 18:16)

“a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 19:23) = “How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the kingdom of God!” (Luke 18:24)

In other words, “kingdom of God” = “kingdom of Heaven.”

Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” Luke 16:16 (KJV 1900)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)

“I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9 (NASB95)

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12 (KJV 1900)

“That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.” 1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV 1900)

“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.” Acts 19:8 (KJV 1900)

“And when thy days [David] be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (KJV 1900)

This means all the kingdom prophecies in the OT were symbols, not to be taken literally.
 
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Dave L

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I never implied God changes... but His programs clearly do.
Do we offer animal sacrifices today? No.
Why? Because Jesus fulfilled that "shadow"

OT sacrifices were pointing to Jesus as the Lamb of God.
Do you NOT agree with that?

.
Do you think you and Dispensationalists would return to animal sacrifices if there were a third temple? That's what a supposed third temple calls for.
 
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