At the Last Trumpet

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

In your post quoted above you're quoting both things I said and things you said (that I did not say). Is it a habit of yours to misquote (and hence misrepresent) people? I explained to you what I meant by usurper.

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Post #64 was YOUR post... not mine
And you never "explained to me" what you meant by "usurper"
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Tra Phull said:

"We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."

Paul wrote Corinthians before John wrote of 7 trumpets in Revelation, so the imagery of LAST TRUMPET is from somewhere else. Paul blows PRE-trib out of the water.

The rapture is at the last trumpet, not 7 years or 3 1/2 years BEFORE the last trumpet - but AT the last trumpet.

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Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit...
How else would he know the Last Saints are "changed"
in the "twinkling of an eye"?

To suggest that he had to read Revelation to understand
the EVENTS of the last Trump is to deny the inspiration
of Scripture.

And the question is... just HOW MANY "last Trumps"
are there? How many "trumps" where the resurrection
occurs and Satan and Death are destroyed?

Paul was writing as "moved" by the Holy Spirit.
You can be sure that 1Co 15 is JUST as inspired
as Revelation... and in fact, they harmonize with
each other.

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5thKingdom said:

This thread is titled "at the last Trump"
do you comments address that issue?

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“in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Corinthians 15:52 (NCPB)

“so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor arise from their sleep.” (Job 14:12) (NET)

“But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.” Revelation 10:7 (KJV 1900)

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” Revelation 11:15 (KJV 1900)

Timtofly said:

Stalin introduced communism, does not mean today we accept it because it came from Stalin. Blaming the Jesuits, is side stepping the issue. It is true that people, will more than likely not be ready for that last trumpet, unless they are this minute ready.

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So lies are OK?

Dave L said:

“in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Corinthians 15:52 (NCPB)

“so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor arise from their sleep.” (Job 14:12) (NET)

“But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.” Revelation 10:7 (KJV 1900)

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” Revelation 11:15 (KJV 1900)

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good

Dave L said:

How does your "last trump" square with Amillennialism? That is the historic church position.

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The Last Trump has no conflict with Amillennialism.

After the Great Commission of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat13]
is finished... after the 1260 days of "testimony" of the Two Witnesses (the church)
is finished, Satan is "loosened" [Rev 9:1] and attacks the Last "wheat and tares"
shown as the "ten virgins" of Mat 25 and the ten "kings/horns" of Dan 7 and Rev 17
and the "ten kings" of Dan 2:44. This is the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]

This attack is during the Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation/Daniel's Fourth Beast/
or reign of the Antichrist during Satan's "Little Season".

The "wise virgins" are Judged by God during the 1st Woe or 5th Trumpet
The "foolish virgins" are Judged by God during the 2nd Woe or Sixth Trumpet
That completes the destruction of Satan's "Kingdom of Babylon"

There is a "time of the end" [Dan 12:8-10] also shown as the
"season and time" after the destruction of the Fourth Beast [Dan 7:11-12]
when the Last Saints preach these Biblical mysteries [Rev 10:7-11]

Then the world is Judged during the eternal 3rd Woe/Seventh Trumpet

The Lord Returns at that "last Trump" and the resurrection occurs
and we Last Saints are "changed" and Satan and the Kingdoms of Man
are cast into the Lake of Fire [Rev 20:10] to JOIN THE BEAST who was
cast into the lake at the end of the Revelation Beast [Rev 19:20] and
DEATH is destroyed.

The Amillennial doctrine has always been correct.
The understanding of Daniel's prophecies were "sealed" until the "wise virgins"
[Mat 25] "shall understand" and they "shall see all these things" [Mat 24:15,33]
and we shall preach these mysteries as the Seventh Trumpet (now)
"begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]

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Dave L said:

So lies are OK?

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No.

Stop listening to Jesuits is ok.

5thKingdom said:

good

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But quite wrong!
The Seventh Trumpet is NOT the final trump. That isn't until 1000 years later.

Amill belief, that there is no 1000 year rule of King Jesus; contradicts plainly stated scripture. It is a false teaching.

Tra Phull said:

This thread is about the Last Trumpet in 1 Cor 15

It does not confirm or deny that that trumpet is the 7th trumpet of Revelation; it does not confirm or deny that the 1000 years in Revelation are literal or not.

There were other pieces of apocalyptic literature (non-canonical) which posited a 400 year period instead of a 1000 year period.

The only thing I see that this "last trumpet eschatology" is against is a pre-trib rapture.

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Those who claim the seventh trumpet is not the last trumpet, have yet to show us an eighth trumpet in the Book of Revelation.

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Tra Phull said:

That, and last trumpet in 1 Cor 15, seem to squash a pre-trib rapture, but yet there are still Pre-Tribbers

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Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


The New Covenant: Bob George

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Tra Phull said:

Also in Isaiah : "And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."

That, and last trumpet in 1 Cor 15, seem to squash a pre-trib rapture, but yet there are still Pre-Tribbers

None of the eschatological positions are just "pulled out of the Air" - there is some plausibility in them all.

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That is true.
All false doctrines have one or two supporting verses
That is why the ONLY measure of Biblical Truth is harmony of ALL RELATED passages.

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BABerean2 said:

Those who claim the seventh trumpet is not the last trumpet, have yet to show us an eighth trumpet in the Book of Revelation.

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the Seven Trumpets of Revelation are simply indicators for the punishments or the information described, as they happen. I do not think that an actual trumpet blast will precede any of them. Not as heard on earth anyway.
The Last Trumpet will be the call for all the dead to rise, to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15
The Last Trump that Paul cites in 1Cor 15:52, is that same Trump, proved by how it is only then that Death will be no more. Revelation 21:4
AFTER the Millennium.

keras said:

the Seven Trumpets of Revelation are simply indicators for the punishments or the information described, as they happen. I do not think that an actual trumpet blast will precede any of them. Not as heard on earth anyway.
The Last Trumpet will be the call for all the dead to rise, to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15
The Last Trump that Paul cites in 1Cor 15:52, is that same Trump, proved by how it is only then that Death will be no more. Revelation 21:4
AFTER the Millennium.

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Provided the Millennium is correctly understood as the Church Age.

At the end of the Great Commission the "testimony" of the Two Witnesses is finished.
That is the end of the Great Commission and the Church Age. It is followed with Satan
"overcoming" those Two Witnesses for 3.5 days which represents the Great Tribulation
just like the 3.5 "times" and the 3.5 years and the 3.5 "watches of the night" all represent
the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven [Mat 25:1]

Remember the Seventh Trumpet is also the 3rd Woe.
So there was a 1st Woe (as Satan is loosened) and a 2nd Woe
as the Second Beast is destroyed... and then the 3rd Woe or Seventh Trumpet

And the Seventh Trumpet has some awesome EVENTS associated with it.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and
of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders,
which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come;
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were
angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and
that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and
them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy
the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings,
and an earthquake, and great hail.


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Tra Phull said:

This thread is about the Last Trumpet in 1 Cor 15

It does not confirm or deny that that trumpet is the 7th trumpet of Revelation; it does not confirm or deny that the 1000 years in Revelation are literal or not.

There were other pieces of apocalyptic literature (non-canonical) which posited a 400 year period instead of a 1000 year period.

The only thing I see that this "last trumpet eschatology" is against is a pre-trib rapture.

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Kind of hard to define a pre-trib, cause no one will define a trib. Some say it already happened. Some say there is only the GT.

The 7th Trumpet sounds during the whole GT. It is nice background music. But the GT is in the middle of the Second Coming Celebration. So if the rapture is happening in the middle of the Wedding celibaration, there is going to be a lot of wedding crashers. Perhaps the 6 feet social thing is still ongoing? Would not want covid 19 messing up Satan's 3.5 years of horror or God's wrath and the 7 vials. All these things going on for the 3.5 year plus 8 days of the celebration blast of the 7th Trumpet. So is the rapture before, during or after all is over, or during the battle of Armageddon?

keras said:

the Seven Trumpets of Revelation are simply indicators for the punishments or the information described, as they happen. I do not think that an actual trumpet blast will precede any of them. Not as heard on earth anyway.
The Last Trumpet will be the call for all the dead to rise, to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15
The Last Trump that Paul cites in 1Cor 15:52, is that same Trump, proved by how it is only then that Death will be no more. Revelation 21:4
AFTER the Millennium.

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So you are saying the Seventh Trumpet (3rd Woe) has EVENTS associated with it.

But the Sixth Trumpet (2nd Woe) is "simply an indicator for punishment or information
(whatever that means in English)

And the Fifth Trumpet (1st Woe) is just an indicator or information also.

That is just hilarious. Profound "Bible study".

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