Time to end Coronavirus restrictions

A_Thinker · Jul 5, 2020

essentialsaltes said:
Let's have a look at the contrast.

The US hasn't peaked yet with daily cases currently over 40,000.

US total cases 2,900,000.
July 3rd daily increase in cases: 54,904
Percentage increase: 1.9%

Germany peaked with daily cases over 6,000. Past ten days have all been well under 1,000.

Germany total cases 197,000.
Most recent daily increase in cases: 418
Percentage increase: 0.2%

South Korea peaked with daily cases over 800. Past 90 days have all been under 100.

South Korea total cases 13,000.
Most recent daily increase in cases: 63
Percentage increase: 0.5%

China peaked with daily cases over 3,000. Past 60 days have all been under 100.

China total cases 83,000.
Most recent daily increase in cases: 19 (per Johns Hopkins)
Percentage increase: 0.02%

In contrast with the US, all of these countries have passed their peaks, and their current daily increases are well under 1%.

Compared to all countries with populations greater than 1 million, the US ranks #7 in both per capita deaths and per capita cases.

What has been shocking to me (though not really) ... are the numbers of Americans willing to let up to 3 million (1%) of their fellow Americans die ... and millions of others to get deathly ill ... in order to further a political agenda ...

FireDragon76 · Jul 5, 2020

A_Thinker said:
What has been shocking to me (though not really) ... are the numbers of Americans willing to let up to 3 million (1%) of their fellow Americans die ... and millions of others to get deathly ill ... in order to further a political agenda ...

It doesn't surprise me. A large minority of Americans are either ignorant and can't understand the issue, or they are selfish and unethical people. We need a revolution in consciousness and ethics in this country, or the nation simply won't continue as it has.

essentialsaltes · Jul 5, 2020

A_Thinker said:
What has been shocking to me (though not really) ... are the numbers of Americans willing to let up to 3 million (1%) of their fellow Americans die ... and millions of others to get deathly ill ... in order to further a political agenda ...

On the plus side, I assume women will be able to go topless and/or breastfeed wherever the heck they want.

Desk trauma · Jul 5, 2020

essentialsaltes said:
On the plus side, I assume women will be able to go topless and/or breastfeed wherever the heck they want.

I'm holding out for the total suspension of all health and food safety regulations, DUI laws and building codes as violations of individual liberty.

Albion · Jul 5, 2020

A_Thinker said:
The recession occurred under Bush.

Yes. In the last days of his administration. Then Obama took over, wasted billions on pie-in-the-sky projects that he promised were "shovel ready" investments in our future. That was before he admitted that there were no "shovel ready" projects.

Very much like "you can keep your doctor," which of course was not true either.

So in reply to the familiar excuse that says it happened under Bush--it didn't. It started under Bush and then Obama took over and perpetuated it at great cost for eight long years. That's failed administration.

That was the longest recession in our history and the most costly one also as that administration added more to the national debt than any previous administration.

A_Thinker · Jul 5, 2020

Albion said:
So in reply to the familiar excuse that says it happened under Bush--it didn't. It started under Bush and then Obama took over and perpetuated it at great cost for eight long years. That's failed administration.

Yes ... I guess YOU can see that in the job growth chart I posted.

Thank God all Americans are not so blinded by bias ...

essentialsaltes · Jul 5, 2020

Albion said:
Yes. In the last days of his administration. Then Obama took over,

and all of us with eyes in our head can see the slope of the graph after that.

Albion · Jul 5, 2020

A_Thinker said:
Yes ... I guess YOU can see that in the job growth chart I posted.

Growth? Sure. But if it takes forever (well, a long eight years to be more precise) to make a tiny improvement, that wouldn't be considered adequate or a success by anyone.

Not UNLESS, that is, it were a matter of somehow finding a way to gloss over the unprecedented failures of the Obama administration. By contrast, more economic progress was made under the Trump administration in only a matter of months.

driewerf · Jul 5, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Well, we might need to build a wall between Canada and the US if that happens.

And let the USA pay for it?

driewerf · Jul 5, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
It's time to acknowledge what most of us thought was the case: Government can't control a virus. Coronavirus cases are increasing, not just in places that opened up 2 months ago. Back in May, in NYC 66% of hospitalizations were people who had been locked down. Government was never able to control the virus.

Two pieces of news struck me this week as indicative of the need for government to pull back and let the virus run its course. 38 MLB players and nearly 30 NBA players tested positive last week. These are people being forced to take tests by their employer, as opposed to people who think they're sick and are going to get a test. A team and a half of baseball players and 10% of NBA players who will play in their new format suggests the virus is incredibly widespread, way beyond the official positive numbers.

Deaths are not increasing substantially, they remained steady in June despite previous high numbers at the end of May. This remains a 99.6% survival virus. According to the CDC those under 55 have a 99.95% survival rate, those 55-64 survive 99.8% of the time and those 65+ survive 98.5% of the time. Those numbers may drop if the virus is as widespread as the numbers suggest.

It's time to end all restrictions on our lives. Ditch the placebo masks, ditch the social distancing and move on with life. This virus cannot be controlled by the state. Let it run its course naturally without us trying to flatten curves which will only serve to extend the economic and social misery the government has created with this virus. Enough is enough.

No words, just a graph:

Albion · Jul 5, 2020

A_Thinker said:
What has been shocking to me (though not really) ... are the numbers of Americans willing to let up to 3 million (1%) of their fellow Americans die ... and millions of others to get deathly ill ... in order to further a political agenda ...

If we were to use some other figures, also picked out of thin air, like a hundred million dying and hundreds of millions getting deathly ill...it would sound more impressive.

loveofourlord · Jul 5, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
It's time to acknowledge what most of us thought was the case: Government can't control a virus. Coronavirus cases are increasing, not just in places that opened up 2 months ago. Back in May, in NYC 66% of hospitalizations were people who had been locked down. Government was never able to control the virus.

Two pieces of news struck me this week as indicative of the need for government to pull back and let the virus run its course. 38 MLB players and nearly 30 NBA players tested positive last week. These are people being forced to take tests by their employer, as opposed to people who think they're sick and are going to get a test. A team and a half of baseball players and 10% of NBA players who will play in their new format suggests the virus is incredibly widespread, way beyond the official positive numbers.

Deaths are not increasing substantially, they remained steady in June despite previous high numbers at the end of May. This remains a 99.6% survival virus. According to the CDC those under 55 have a 99.95% survival rate, those 55-64 survive 99.8% of the time and those 65+ survive 98.5% of the time. Those numbers may drop if the virus is as widespread as the numbers suggest.

It's time to end all restrictions on our lives. Ditch the placebo masks, ditch the social distancing and move on with life. This virus cannot be controlled by the state. Let it run its course naturally without us trying to flatten curves which will only serve to extend the economic and social misery the government has created with this virus. Enough is enough.

florida, texas and arizona are about to reach capacity for hospitals, but your bright idea is to remove restrictions?

xrays and other thigns are showing that even the mildest cases of covid 19 have disturbingly high amount of damage to lungs and other parts of the body but sure...it's harmless and only about deaths.

Part of the reason deaths are slowing is becasue we have better control of how to cope with the disease, but doesn't stop the permanite harm it does to people and their bodies, doesn't stop that we have limited resources.

GOD Shines Forth! · Jul 5, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
It's time to end all restrictions on our lives. Ditch the placebo masks, ditch the social distancing and move on with life. This virus cannot be controlled by the state. Let it run its course naturally without us trying to flatten curves which will only serve to extend the economic and social misery the government has created with this virus. Enough is enough.

loveofourlord · Jul 5, 2020

for all those pushing for sacrificing people for the economy, how much damage to the young are you willing to let happen? they arn't dying, but even asymtomatic younger people have problems. We don't know the full extent of the lasting damage this disease does.

A_Thinker · Jul 5, 2020

Albion said:
Growth? Sure. But if it takes forever (well, a long eight years to be more precise) to make a tiny improvement, that wouldn't be considered adequate or a success by anyone.

The DOW more than doubled under Obama (added more than 10,000 points).

Trump has added around 7,500 points to-date.

Obama halved the unemployment rate (from 10% to 5%).

Trump has decreased the unemployment rate another 1.4% (to 3.6%).

Another chart ...

Albion · Jul 5, 2020

A_Thinker said:
The DOW more than doubled under Obama (added more than 10,000 points).

Yes, but that was because the economy was otherwise so bad that people who had some money to invest had hardly any other ways to invest it.

The real estate market had tanked, unemployment was stubbornly high except for minimum wage jobs, banks were paying next to nothing in interest, and a college education's cost had soared (again, thanks to government).

Fantine · Jul 5, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
It's time to acknowledge what most of us thought was the case: Government can't control a virus. Coronavirus cases are increasing, not just in places that opened up 2 months ago.

You discount that most other industrialized nations
HAVE controlled it without calling 130K dead collateral damage.

Japan just declared victory over COVID. New Zealand. Australia. South Korea.

You choose laziness. Callousness. Criminal negligence.

For shame.

istodolez · Jul 5, 2020

Albion said:
Yes, but that was because the economy was otherwise so bad that people who had some money to invest had hardly any other ways to invest it.

I love how Republicans will literally use any means to denigrate the improvement in the economy during the Obama presidency. It's like walking up a hill. Once we've climbed 5000' the Republican looks around and says "well, those last 100' were FANTASTIC!" as if the previous 4900' weren't necessary to get here as well.

Look, I'm not lauding the recent economic growth after 2007. It's been one of the slowest (but longest) recoveries in history and a lot of the benefit went to the wealthy as it usually does these days.

But to act like Trump created an economic miracle while Obama was a horror is to beggar the imagination. One would have to be positively DELUSIONAL to think Trump's economic performance is somehow a miracle that grew DESPITE Obama's ground work.

Every single time I hear Trump crow about record high stock markets I remember back in the Obama years reading about "record high stock market numbers" as well.

A_Thinker · Jul 5, 2020

istodolez said:
Look, I'm not lauding the recent economic growth after 2007. It's been one of the slowest (but longest) recoveries in history and a lot of the benefit went to the wealthy as it usually does these days.

It was, also, quite consistent.

I made my retirement money (without much stock juggling at all) ... in the consistent Obama recovery ... so much so, that I could retire five years early ...

istodolez · Jul 5, 2020

A_Thinker said:
It was, also, quite consistent.

I made my retirement money (without much stock juggling at all) ... in the consistent Obama recovery ... so much so, that I could retire five years early ...

I recently rebalanced my 401k because even though the market is doing pretty ok right now despite all the negative stuff, I know it can't continue especially in light of Trump's gross mishandling of this crisis. We are skating right now and the ice is getting thin.

We will be left with NO OPTION but another wholescale shutdown of the economy because we didn't do the right things we needed to do during the first one. We have set this up to be one of the worst economic disasters in our lifetimes and a great deal of it is laid right at the feet of the people in charge when the epidemic hit.

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