LDS The Futile Attempt by Mormons to Earn God's Grace

Rescued One · Jul 2, 2020

He is the way said:
Only if they keep the commandments, otherwise they CAN'T know Him.

Wrong answer! The sheep keep His commandments because they KNOW AND LOVE HIM!

1 John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

John 10
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 3
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Rescued One · Jul 2, 2020

He is the way said:
It is true that we can't save ourselves, we don't say that we can save ourselves. Even the topic of this thread is wrong. We know that we can't earn grace. Grace is a gift given to those who obey Jesus Christ and keep the commandments. It is our duty to do the works or end up in hell like the rich man who didn't help Lazarus. You should know fine well what will happen to unprofitable servants:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:30)

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Not very many will be saved:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:13 - 20)

13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it....

Marriage for time and for eternity is the strait gate and the narrow way (spoken of in the scriptures) “that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it,” but “broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat.” (Doc. and Cov. D&C 132:22, 25.)If Satan and his hosts can persuade you to take the broad highway of worldly marriage that ends with death, he has defeated you in your opportunity for the highest degree of eternal happiness through marriage and increase throughout eternity.
“Chapter 12: The Divine Purpose of Marriage,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, 109

He is the way · Jul 2, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
The rich man was not a Christian. Salvation comes only through faith in Christ. Not one person can produce fruit that endures apart from faith in Christ.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Yes there is NO condemnation for those who do NOT walk after the flesh, because those who do not walk after the flesh keep the commandments. The law of the spirit are the commandments of LOVE, that is the righteousness of the law. The carnal mind is NOT subject to the law of God. Those who serve sin can not please God:

(Old Testament | Joshua 24:14 - 15)

14 ¶ Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

(New Testament | Romans 6:12 - 16)

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

He is the way · Jul 2, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Wrong answer! The sheep keep His commandments because they KNOW AND LOVE HIM!

1 John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

John 10
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 3
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

It is NOT the wrong answer because as the Bible states:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Rescued One · Jul 2, 2020

He is the way said:
It is NOT the wrong answer because as the Bible states:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Are you accusing me of not keeping the commandments? I love Him, that's why I follow Him and want to please Him. That's why I won't follow false prophets.

He is the way · Jul 2, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Marriage for time and for eternity is the strait gate and the narrow way (spoken of in the scriptures) “that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it,” but “broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat.” (Doc. and Cov. D&C 132:22, 25.)If Satan and his hosts can persuade you to take the broad highway of worldly marriage that ends with death, he has defeated you in your opportunity for the highest degree of eternal happiness through marriage and increase throughout eternity.
“Chapter 12: The Divine Purpose of Marriage,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, 109

That is the divine purpose of marriage. Anyone can decide whether or not to be sealed for eternity or not.

He is the way · Jul 2, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Are you accusing me of not keeping the commandments? I love Him, that's why I follow Him and want to please Him. That's why I won't follow false prophets.

I am NOT accusing anyone of not keeping the commandments, I am just explaining the correct way to know God.

Rescued One · Jul 3, 2020

A person must be set free from the power of Satan in order to understand spiritual things. He must have the Spirit of Christ. Non-Christians don't have that Spirit. It isn't a matter of the non-Christian's will. Saul didn't convert himself --- God did.

Acts 16
12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Without the Spirit of Christ, no one is a Christian.

Romans 8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life
because of righteousness.

Until man is set free from the power of Satan and given the Spirit of Christ, he has no desire to choose God over Satan.

Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

The gift of God is eternal life. It isn't a reward for right choices or striving to obey. It is God's doing. Joseph Smith didn't want God to have power over men. He wanted power over God. God has power to direct our steps. He changes our hearts. He gives is faith in Christ.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 5
15 But not as the offence, so also is the FREE gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the FREE gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

He is the way · Jul 3, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
A person must be set free from the power of Satan in order to understand spiritual things. He must have the Spirit if Christ. Non-Christians don't have that Spirit. It isn't a matter of the non-Christian's will. Saul didn't convert himself --- God did.

Acts 16
12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Without the Spirit of Christ, no one is a Christian.

Romans 8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life
because of righteousness.

Until man is set free from the power of Satan and given the Spirit of Christ, he has no desire to choose God over Satan.

Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

The gift of God is eternal life. It isn't a reward for right choices or striving to obey. It is God's doing. Joseph Smith didn't want God to have power over men. He wanted power over God. God has power to direct our steps. He changes our hearts. He gives is faith in Christ.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 5
15 But not as the offence, so also is the FREE gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the FREE gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

You said: "A person must be set free from the power of Satan in order to understand spiritual things. He must have the Spirit if Christ. Non-Christians don't have that Spirit. It isn't a matter of the non-Christian's will. Saul didn't convert himself --- God did.

Were the Samaritans Christians?
(New Testament | Luke 17:14 - 16)

14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.

Was the centurion a Christian?

(New Testament | Matthew 8:8 - 10)

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

No they were not Christians, but they most certainly did have the spirit of God.

You said: "Without the Spirit of Christ, no one is a Christian."

Then quoted some verses none of which contained the word Christian.

You said: "The gift of God is eternal life. It isn't a reward for right choices or striving to obey. It is God's doing. Joseph Smith didn't want God to have power over men. He wanted power over God. God has power to direct our steps. He changes our hearts. He gives is faith in Christ."

Grace is a gift, eternal life is choice.

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Rescued One · Jul 4, 2020

He is the way said:
You said: "A person must be set free from the power of Satan in order to understand spiritual things. He must have the Spirit if Christ. Non-Christians don't have that Spirit. It isn't a matter of the non-Christian's will. Saul didn't convert himself --- God did.

Were the Samaritans Christians?

14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.

Was the centurion a Christian?

(New Testament | Matthew 8:8 - 10)

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

No they were not Christians, but they most certainly did have the spirit of God.

Non-Christians do not have the Spirit of Christ. Matthew 8:10 is obviously speaking of someone with faith. Faith is a gift of God and exists in the person who has the Spirit of Christ.

He is the way said:
You said: "Without the Spirit of Christ, no one is a Christian."

Amen!

He is the way said:
Then quoted some verses none of which contained the word Christian.

Are you not aware that a Christian is follower of the true Christ?

He is the way said:
You said: "The gift of God is eternal life. It isn't a reward for right choices or striving to obey. It is God's doing. Joseph Smith didn't want God to have power over men. He wanted power over God. God has power to direct our steps. He changes our hearts. He gives is faith in Christ."

Amen!

He is the way said:

Grace is a gift, eternal life is choice.

Click to expand...

We are aware that Mormons do not believe Romans 5:15 and Romans 6:23.

Eternal life is a gift!

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

The lawyer couldn't keep the commandments; Christ had not yet saved him from the power of Satan.

James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 4
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness...

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Man is incapable of following Christ while under the power of Satan. The law shows us that we are sinners (if God delivers us from the power of Satan). Without the Spirit of Christ we don't understand spiritual things. We are like the Pharisees who were blind leaders of the blind.

Rescued One · Jul 4, 2020

Mormonism:
Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles taught:

“[The Lord] will make possible all you qualify in worthiness to receive. Do not be discouraged. Living a pattern of life as close as possible to the ideal will provide much happiness, great satisfaction, and impressive growth while here on earth regardless of your current life circumstances” (“First Things First,” Liahona, July 2001, 7; Ensign, May 2001, 7)

D&C 130 (LDS scripture)
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned.
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 305

Bible:
Romans 11
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

He is the way · Jul 4, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Non-Christians do not have the Spirit of Christ. Matthew 8:10 is obviously speaking of someone with faith. Faith is a gift of God and exists in the person who has the Spirit of Christ.

I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh and is of God:

(New Testament | 1 John 4:2 - 3)

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

(New Testament | Matthew 18:20)

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

He is the way · Jul 4, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Are you not aware that a Christian is follower of the true Christ?

Very much aware that true Christians are indeed followers of the true Jesus Christ of the Bible who said:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

He is the way · Jul 4, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
We are aware that Mormons do not believe Romans 5:15 and Romans 6:23.

Do not tell us what we believe and what we do not believe! I have already stated that grace is a free gift from God and we know that the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. We also know that:
(New Testament | Romans 6:14 - 16)

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

He is the way · Jul 4, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Mormonism:
Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles taught:

“[The Lord] will make possible all you qualify in worthiness to receive. Do not be discouraged. Living a pattern of life as close as possible to the ideal will provide much happiness, great satisfaction, and impressive growth while here on earth regardless of your current life circumstances” (“First Things First,” Liahona, July 2001, 7; Ensign, May 2001, 7)

D&C 130 (LDS scripture)
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned.
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 305

Bible:
Romans 11
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Grace is a free gift and it is given to those who LOVE Jesus Christ and keep His commandments. And as I have shown salvation is for the obedient. Cherry picking the scriptures will not bring salvation:

(New Testament | Luke 4:4)

4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Rescued One · Jul 4, 2020

He is the way said:
You said: "You said: "The gift of God is eternal life. It isn't a reward for right choices or striving to obey. It is God's doing. Joseph Smith didn't want God to have power over men. He wanted power over God. Without the Spirit of Christ, no one is a Christian."

Then quoted some verses none of which contained the word Christian.

Your point?

He is the way said:

Grace is a gift, eternal life is choice.

Click to expand...

Knowing God is not the sinner's choice or effort. Without Christ we can do nothing. Without the Spirit of God we don't understand spiritual truths and do not make the choice to have faith. You can't force or obligate the Father to give you to Christ.

Joseph Smith wanted to bind the Lord to Smith's own fictitious religious laws:

Doctrine and Covenants 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

Rescued One · Jul 4, 2020

He is the way said:
Grace is a gift, eternal life is choice.

Knowing God is not the sinner's choice or effort. Without Christ we can do nothing. Without the Spirit of God we don't understand spiritual truths. You can't force or obligate the Father to give you to Christ.

Joseph Smith wanted to bind the Lord to Smith's own fictitious religious laws:

Doctrine and Covenants 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

He is the way said:
Grace is a free gift and it is given to those who LOVE Jesus Christ and keep His commandments. And as I have shown salvation is for the obedient.

2 Nephi 25
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God;
for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

He is the way said:
Cherry picking the scriptures will not bring salvation

How true! Nor will following Joseph Smith's re-writing of them to suit his whims.

Rescued One · Jul 4, 2020

He is the way said:
Grace is a free gift and it is given to those who LOVE Jesus Christ and keep His commandments.

Mormons declare that grace depends on man's obedience(works). It is not given prior to "all you can do."

Ran77 · Jul 4, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
We are aware that Mormons do not believe Romans 5:15 and Romans 6:23.

That is false. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints do believe these verses as well as the rest of the verses in the Bible. I'm not sure what is meant to be accomplished by making such a blatantly false statement as this.

:scratch:

He is the way · Jul 4, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Your point?

Knowing God is not the sinner's choice or effort. Without Christ we can do nothing. Without the Spirit of God we don't understand spiritual truths and do not make the choice to have faith. You can't force or obligate the Father to give you to Christ.

Joseph Smith wanted to bind the Lord to Smith's own fictitious religious laws:

Doctrine and Covenants 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

Many promises are made to those who keep the commandments. NO promises are made to those who don't:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 16)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(New Testament | John 15:1 - 14)

1 I AM the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

The promises are for those who keep the commandments. They are the true friends of Jesus Christ.

LDS The Futile Attempt by Mormons to Earn God's Grace

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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